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02-25-2004, 02:29 PM
Posted By: <b>warshawlaw&nbsp; </b><p>We all tend to crap all over the grading services when they mess up. I wanted to note my satisfaction with an order that GAI recently handled for me. <BR><BR>I dropped off cards at the Hollywood Park show on 2/10 for their 30-day economy service. I got them back today. I've not had a similar shorter than promised turnaround experience with PSA, and only occasionally have had it with SGC. Nice to see a company treat their turn times as outside estimates rather than as minimum timetables.

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02-25-2004, 02:43 PM
Posted By: <b>petecld</b><p>Since they seem to care about you, can you ask them where my card is? It's the one their holder damaged. <BR><BR>They have had it since the November 2003 Chicago Sun-Times show and I haven't heard from them since.

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02-25-2004, 03:44 PM
Posted By: <b>BOTN</b><p>I had to call Baker today and left him a message about the card. You should have let me know.<BR><BR>Greg

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02-25-2004, 04:04 PM
Posted By: <b>runscott</b><p>SGC received my last batch on Feb 6 and shipped Feb 18 - the deal was supposed to be 5 business days.<BR><BR>As usual, I'm thrilled with the product and the service - I love being able to speak with intelligent people who treat me like a customer.<BR><BR>But they have never (0-fer) shipped according to schedule - there are always always always extenuating circumstances. I suggested they change the advertised "5 days" to "7 days" or "10 days". This would go down much better with me.<BR><BR>...but still my grading company of choice and I love the label they put on my upside-down t206s, without my asking.

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02-25-2004, 05:06 PM
Posted By: <b>Jason</b><p>I just submitted to both SGC and GAI. While I think SGC grades much close than what I tend to GAI had met their deadlines way ahead of schedule. SGC failed to meet their deadline. I have heard they were slow after complaining. Overall SGC grrades were most accurate and consistant, but I have never experienced better service and turn-around time better than GAI. PSA sucks in all aspects and I will never submit to them again. To bad these companies do not use the same slabs as does beckett because in my opininon beckett slabs are definitely best for protection.

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02-25-2004, 05:42 PM
Posted By: <b>Lee Behrens</b><p>The turnaround times might be a reflection of the aount of business they are doing. The funny thing is that neither GAI or SGC are big players in the modern market, which I would think would keep the bulk down. My current shipment is going to be late but I will still continue to submit to SGC. The cards in the lot I sent 5 day did get graded on time.

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02-25-2004, 08:27 PM
Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>Only submission to PSA was about 6 years ago....it was ok......I feel like overall they lack the experience to grade the cards we like (but we've been through this two million times). Last 3 submissions to SGC were 2 on time (exactly) and 1 was 2 days shorter than promised. I think they totally killed the cards gradewise but as long as they are consistent I will still use them. regards all

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02-25-2004, 09:08 PM
Posted By: <b>runscott</b><p>because you know the guys over at SGC. Mine have never been delivered on time so I can't see any other explanation for yours all arriving either on time or early. <BR><BR>Mine have ALWAYS been late - as in ZERO on time. I can't believe I'm the only one experiencing this.<BR><BR>After hearing this from you I will definitely reconsider sending cards to SGC in the future.

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02-25-2004, 11:23 PM
Posted By: <b>Hankron</b><p>My only problem with this thread is I've yet to figure what is a prop

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02-26-2004, 12:23 AM
Posted By: <b>BOTN</b><p>I hear what you guys are saying and there is nothing more frustrating than having to deal with delays in processing orders. I am forgiving to both GAI and SGC if they miss a turnaround time. The service that they provide for as little as they charge makes me feel that the benefits far out weigh any of the minor inconveniences.<BR><BR>I am not a high profile dealer and I do not do a lot of volume with either company but do frequent submissions consisting of at least 50 to 100 cards each time. I have found that both companies are grading very consistent within my submission and in comparison to one another. I rarely get surprises one way or another from them and know pretty much what to expect. I have not been able to enjoy this luxury with my past PSA submissions-- which ends up being grading roulette. It could be a 3 or it could be a 5, really.<BR><BR>I am not trying to be contentious but ask the rhetoric question what the grading companies have to really benefit by overtly playing favorites with certain dealers. This was definitely happening at PSA at onetime but I have never experienced this with GAI or SGC. To favor a few dealers to the exclusion of the rest of the public is suicide. I think that the grading companies want to grade cards as high as possible and get them out as fast as possible. To do otherwise means that they should shut their doors.<BR><BR>GAI and SGC are primarily vintage graders and are competing for the same cards. Collectors have 2 (some have 3) choices and as long as SGC and GAI are not the leaders in their industry they cannot afford to be playing around. <BR><BR>Greg<BR>

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02-26-2004, 08:14 AM
Posted By: <b>petecld</b><p>NOTE: I'm using SGC numbers in my post not to single them out but simply because I am most familiar with their system as I use them the most - actually 99.5% of the time and go out of my way to look for their cards at shows and in auctions.<BR><BR><BR>Greg, I'm not saying it's obvious but the reality is that that these companies will survive based on dealer submissions over collector submissions. It's subtle. <BR><BR>In not saying I see cards that look like 20s in 60 holders nor do I want my "20" cards to be in "60" holders - I just want a fair grade. <BR><BR>A card is an in-between - larger submitters seem to get the 50s instend of the 40s or 40s instead of 30s. I sure as he** don't. But I have seen a couple cards in SGC 40 holders (large submitter) that look like cards I have in 20 holders and those extreme examples of what I'm saying but I'm sorry, I have to wonder why. <BR><BR>Collectors don't seem to get the benefit of the doubt. Sorry thing is it's the collector who will be the most loyal to company but it's the money that will get the benefits.

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02-26-2004, 08:31 AM
Posted By: <b>BOTN</b><p>Pete,<BR><BR>One thing that you have to consider is that "dealers" are only a vehicle for each particular grading service to distribute their product. In the example you used, are you saying that your 20's are under graded or accurately graded? <BR><BR>If those same condition cards are residing in larger submitter dealer's inventory in 40's then collectors should not be buying them unless they are priced at the 20 level. So it really is the collector who has final say as to grading even though, in your opinion, it maybe the dealer who gets all of the benefits. The dealer only benefits if collectors are willing to pay for the holder and not the card.<BR><BR>I would love it if you would send me images of your 20's so that I could see what you are referring to.

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02-26-2004, 10:36 AM
Posted By: <b>Kevin Cummings</b><p>David:<BR><BR>Wassup, dawg?<BR><BR>Ay yo trip - bust this. Homies all that gots to get dere props.<BR><BR>A'ite?<BR><BR>I'm geese.<BR><BR>Translation: <a href="http://www.rapdict.org/terms/a" target=_new>http://www.rapdict.org/terms/a</a>

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02-26-2004, 11:31 AM
Posted By: <b>runscott</b><p>I obviously agree with Greg that the benefits of using SGC outweigh the problems;otherwise, I would use a different company. Also, I understand why they would ship cards quicker to someone they know and speak with personally on a regular basis (and that isn't me). My main complaint is the advertised turn-around vs the actual.<BR><BR>Okay, regarding strictness of grading. I disagree that it is in a grading company's best interest to give the highest grade possible - consistency is the key, and also maintaining standards that are close to that of the industry. Clearly, PSA, GAI and SGC all are close in agreement as to what a '3' or '4', etc. SHOULD be - the differentiator is in the ability of each to implement.<BR><BR>PSA and SGC, by only having "whole number" grades, DO allow themselves the flexibility of giving preferential grading treatment (if they wish) and no one can complain much, e.g: a low-end "4" for "Big Dealer" might be a high-end "3" for "Little Guy". I don't know if this actually happens. GAI uses half-grades, so I could purchase a GAI "3.5" and submit to SGC and end up with either a "3" or a "4" - if I get a "4" I just increased re-sell value by re-slabbing. But if I get a "3", it's still the same card. People pay for those slabs and the number on the labels, whether they should or not.

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02-26-2004, 12:15 PM
Posted By: <b>petecld</b><p>Greg,<BR><BR>You say, "...you have to consider is that "dealers" are only a vehicle for each particular grading service to distribute their product."<BR><BR>All the more reason to give them the edge. No? Yes, dealers represent volume but not long term loyalty. Once "ABCs" cards start selling for more money, "XYZ" is out the door.<BR><BR>Of course I feel the examples I'm thinking of are under graded. Of all the cards I've submitted only ONCE have I felt a card was overgraded (and it was WAY over graded)". And like a dumb-a** I sent the card back for re-grading (read: lower) because I felt selling the card as is would reflect poorly on the company's image. <BR> <BR>Dealers get cards graded for one reason - money - and there is NOTHING wrong with that. I feel that if the grading companies continue to give the edge to dealers if doesn't give any reason for a collector who is THINKING about taking the grading route to ever do so. There are STILL a lot of ungraded collections out there and THOSE cards represent potential future submissions but if collectors feel they aren't going to be treated fairly, why send them in?<BR><BR>Dealers want the edge because it means money in their pocket. Collectors, true collectors, just want their cards graded fairly and to feel they are being treated fairly.

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02-26-2004, 02:41 PM
Posted By: <b>warshawlaw</b><p>My submission was 10 modern entertainment autographed cards (Lord of the Rings and The Mummy Returns; yes, I am addicted to autographed film cards--please help me confront this inner demon...) which I wanted encapsulated to display, and two vintage cards. Oddly, IMHO the moderns were undergraded--I sure as hell could not tell why they weren't all mint, since all were sharp, centered and pristine, yet ranged from 7.5 to 8.5, and all looked just like the PSA 9 walter Koenig (Checkov) card I just got (Star Trek too; I really do need help...). The vintage were 1 graded dead on (1940 PB Heilmann, true ex condition and properly graded ex 5) and 1 over-graded (1954 Dan Dee Rosen 75:25 l/r, hairline crease and very minor grease spot, sharp corners, should be vg, drew a vg-ex+ grade). Since my last GAI card was a vg N28 that drew a vg+ grade, I've bought several GAI vintage cards that were 1/2 grade overblown, and I also own a zeenut that is vg but graded higher, I have to conclude that as between SGC and GAI, I think that GAI is more liberal in its grading of vintage cards, by 1/2 to 1 grade. As far as which I'd trust, I'd say that SGC's determinations are most closely aligned with my sense of grading and aesthetics. Based on what I've seen to date, I would tend to treat "typical" GAI-graded vintage cards as overgraded by 1/2 to 1 grade. That said, both services appear consistent on their application of grades within their systems on vintage cards (unlike PSA--no wildcard grades that leave me scratching my head in wonder), which is important to me as a buyer--kind of like a pitcher likes a consistent umpire even if his strike zone isn't exactly consonant with the rules. <BR><BR>Total aside: the Dodgers are really gonna suck this year. Even Shaun Green is as much as saying so in the LA papers.

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02-27-2004, 01:56 AM
Posted By: <b>Botn</b><p>Adam,<BR><BR>Are you sure that Shaun was limiting the sucking just to this year? I think that it is going to be a few years at least before they stop sucking and then a few more before they contend.<BR><BR>Greg

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02-27-2004, 03:28 PM
Posted By: <b>warshawlaw</b><p>Face it, McCourt bought (well, Fox loaned him) the team so that he can build a football stadium on the property where the acres of parking are currently located. That will keep the local politocos happy because it keeps football downtown (aka jobs for South Central LA). Meanwhile, he's brought in a disciple of Mr. Moneyball, which means that he's going to treat a rich franchise like a middle-market team. "Developing from within" is a load of crap. The A's have steadily developed from within only to lose that talent whenever the free agency market comes up. They are never going to do more than "contend", which is obviously where McCourt wants the Dodgers to be. Contrast that with Arte Moreno in Anaheim, who spends what needs to be spent to field a first-rate team. I mean, the Yankees sign Travis Lee when the Dodgers don't even have a first baseman?? What kind of crap is that??? Is that how McCourt is going to be??

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02-28-2004, 01:58 AM
Posted By: <b>BOTN</b><p>Adam,<BR><BR>2 years ago we gave up great seats on Aisle 12 Rows 3 and 4 that were right behind home plate. Well they were better before they dropped the dugout club seats right in front of us. We had the seats since 1962 as my Grandfather owned a company that leased the heavy machinery that built the stadium.<BR><BR>I pretty much gave up on the Dodgers years ago after Garvey, Cey, Lopes, etc left. I hung in there until a few years ago and just could not put up with it any longer.<BR><BR>It will be awhile before they assemble any kind of team. I am waiting for FB season to start.<BR>