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02-12-2004, 08:45 PM
Posted By: <b>Dan</b><p>I have an opportunity to purchase a very clean Cracker Jack Ty Cobb card for $4250. Am a little apprehensive but the seller is top notch and has been around for a number of years. How do you all feel about this, it is an aweful lot of cash, I just want to make sure.<BR><BR>Thanks, Dan.

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02-12-2004, 08:50 PM
Posted By: <b>slacks</b><p>Are you buying it sight unseen, like you're asking us?

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02-12-2004, 08:53 PM
Posted By: <b>Dan</b><p>No, I saw it and it looks wonderful. May PSA out as at least a 5 or 6, the corners are clean, the card has a slight bit of the caramel staining, but all in all, it is clean. I know it is original, the guy has always been respected in the industry.

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02-12-2004, 08:57 PM
Posted By: <b>Dan</b><p>Also, there is a wonderfully clean B-18 Cobb and a pretty nice Shoeless Joe Jackson as well. They are going for around $700 each. Any advice? I have been collecting T206 for 3 years and have over 400 of them, all Southern, most HOF'ers, and many of the real rares... it is just that now I am venturing out of what I know. I appreciate all and any help. Thank you.

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02-12-2004, 09:08 PM
Posted By: <b>Hankron</b><p>My opinion is that, if you are not so comfortable because the items are out of you area of experience, it would be best to start with something smaller. The Joe Jacksons and Ty Cobbs of the world will still be around next year and the year after that.

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02-12-2004, 09:14 PM
Posted By: <b>Dan</b><p>Yes, I do agree. However, in this instance I have the money to invest due to my recent return from deployment...military man here. I have saved my bucks in the tax free zone for over 9 months and feel that these types of cards are the best investment that a person can make. Is it too much to think that approx $700 for a super clean B-18 Cobb and Jackson is too much? These are very hard to come by and then if you throw in a super clean Cracker Jack Cobb... what a deal. Now, the only problem is, here is Virginia, there just aren't that many PSA dealers for me to rely on helping me get these certified. I have a feeling that tomorrow I will be spending about $10000 on some real nice items. I was just hoping that I could get all of your approval prior to that event. I saw this web site and fell in love with what all of you stand for. Finally some really good people in an industry that is full of so much garbage. I am thrilled to be in your company on this site. Somehow... I feel safe.

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02-12-2004, 09:42 PM
Posted By: <b>petecld</b><p>Dan,<BR><BR>It's hard to offer an opinion without seeing the cards involved. You don't mention if it's a 1914 or a 1915 Cracker Jack. BIG difference in value. I've heard many people describe PRO graded cards as "looks great" so that doesn't really say anything. There is a 1914 CK Cobb on eBay right now.<BR><BR>You said, "...the seller is top notch and has been around for a number of years." Then why didn't he have it graded? <BR><BR>$700 for both B-18s - Cobb and Jackson - is a good price but ask yourself if it's "too" good a price. It's a lot of money to loose on cards you aren't familiar with. <BR><BR>

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02-12-2004, 09:46 PM
Posted By: <b>slacks</b><p>Buying raw cards for investment purposes is a risky proposition at best, and a far sight from "the best investment that a person can make."<BR><BR>Are you kidding? Pull in the reins. Hard.

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02-12-2004, 11:24 PM
Posted By: <b>Julie</b><p>in auctions right now, and I'm bidding on them and have NO INTENTION of getting them graded if I should win them! <BR>I just sold 9 cards on ebay for over 2K, and none of them were graded when I sold them--although some of them came in slabs when I bought them.<BR><BR>If you want shoeboxes full of plastic, be my guest.<BR><BR>

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02-13-2004, 07:48 AM
Posted By: <b>Daniel Elsass</b><p>Sorry, the B-18's are $700 each, not $700 for both.

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02-13-2004, 07:54 AM
Posted By: <b>Daniel Elsass</b><p><a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2786026135&category=31719" target=_new>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2786026135&category=31719</a><BR><BR>It would appear that he had it listed on Ebay prior to selling it to the gentleman that owns it now. It is a 1915 Cobb Cracker Jack, is it worth the $4200 asking price? I am just not sure at this point.

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02-13-2004, 08:08 AM
Posted By: <b>Mrc32</b><p>That gash on the top border will bring the grade down.<BR><BR>Any chance there is a small amount of paper loss on the reverse top border?<BR><BR>If I were you I would invest my money in a mutal fund. <BR><BR>My 2 cents.

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02-13-2004, 08:15 AM
Posted By: <b>Julie</b><p>The face on my Cobb (buying it on time from levi Bleam--PSA 1, missing a corner--two, in fact--)is clearer--yours seems to have acne? Not sure about the borders--are they notched? Why? Upper left is sqaure, upper right rounded--why?<BR><BR>Better informed opinions?

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02-13-2004, 08:15 AM
Posted By: <b>Daniel Elsass</b><p>Thank you for your insite on this subject. As I had said before, I am still somewhat new to this. If you look at the back view of the card, it does not appear to have any paper loss, so that is a plus. It was my understanding that the 1915 is more scarce than the 1914, is that the case? The top portion of the card is a concern for sure, that was why I was hopeful to get some opinions on this matter.<BR><BR><a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2786026135&category=31719" target=_new>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2786026135&category=31719</a>

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02-13-2004, 08:25 AM
Posted By: <b>Daniel Elsass</b><p>Now, that does pose some new questions. Is it possible that this may be a fake? I can't imagine mainly because of the person whom is now selling it, but I suppose that it is possible.<BR><BR>I think that I am going to not do this purchase, but go ahead with the B-18's of Cobb and Jackson for $700 a piece. The Cobb in particular is super clean.

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02-13-2004, 09:24 AM
Posted By: <b>John Wojak</b><p>The card does not look fake to me, it looks authentic. BUT Julie raised the same thing that jumped out at me when I looked at it - the top left corner is quite sharp while the other three corners all display consistent amounts of corner wear. This is especially visible on the scan of the back, where the corner in question is the bottom left (1915 backs were printed upside down). Also, I see some sort of surface in the red background "V" above Cobb's left hand - not sure what that is. Finally, there is border notching on both the top and the bottom borders, which, while not significant from visual perspective, would certainly knock the grade down a bit. CJ experts on the board, how do you think this card would grade by SGC - Ex? VG/Ex? Also, in answer to your question re 1914/1915, the 1914 cards are rarer, not the 1915s.

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02-13-2004, 09:25 AM
Posted By: <b>Ben</b><p>The card is clearly authentic. But it is also overpriced (in my opinion), overgraded (again, in my opinion), and potentially altered in some way or another. It is pretty obvious that this purchase is probably not in your best interests- like David said, why start with a $4k+ expendature when you have plenty of time to get familiar with the issue and typical prices realized on high profile specimens? <BR><BR>

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02-13-2004, 09:27 AM
Posted By: <b>slacks</b><p>Yeah, go ahead. It's a super deal! <BR><BR>Why would you have any concerns? It's not uncommon for a "top-notch" dealer (defined as one who cancels his auctions early because he's not getting the price he wanted) to sell raw vintage cards for way under market to new, overexcited card buyers with $10K burning a hole in their pockets.<BR><BR>Like you said, these types of cards are the best investment that a person can make. Get over there before I beat you to it!<BR><BR>

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02-13-2004, 09:40 AM
Posted By: <b>runscott</b><p>I will give my dittos to Hankron's assessment, but Slack's prose catches my mood about this type of thing as well.<BR><BR>Buying vintage baseball cards as an investment is tricky, and even experts make regrettable decisions. If you are interested in these items from a hobby perspective, then start small and work your way up - if your money is burning a hole in your pocket, go buy some stocks.

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02-13-2004, 10:27 AM
Posted By: <b>Julie Vognar</b><p>..but if I listed all the cards I bought when I had money burning a hole in my pocket, you'd drown your software and hardware in drool and tears...<BR><BR>You can't weep over the beauty of stocks.<BR><BR>Just some BAD ADVICE from another addict!

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02-13-2004, 11:42 AM
Posted By: <b>Hankron</b><p>For those buying for future resale, I recommend buying a variety of lesser price quality items. There are two main reasons. First, when you go to resell, there aren't many people who are buying single items for $5,000, but there are loads looking to buy $100-200 items.<BR><BR>Second, it's really really really hard to predict accuratly what a single item will actually sell for-- not theoretically, but what wil be the winning bid in an eBay action. Having a diverse selection of quality items will make up for this. When you sell, item A may sell much less than you predicted, but item B may sell much more-- so it all evens out.<BR><BR>Lastly, the quality of an item as an ivestment is only as good as the price you paid for it. Investment potential is regularly whiped out by people who pay retail.

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02-13-2004, 12:16 PM
Posted By: <b>warshawlaw</b><p>buy a raw card of that magnitude without a money-back guarantee that I can make stick. If you are concerned about the card being altered or want to be sure that it passes muster with a particular grading service, offer to pay for it to be slabbed before you pay for the item. If it comes back ungradable, you pass on the deal. If it comes back ok, you finish the deal.

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02-13-2004, 12:33 PM
Posted By: <b>warshawlaw</b><p>I would spell out the terms of the transaction in writing before doing it and have both parties sign it. <BR><BR>I second the suggestions above that you not go after a particularly expensive card if you are going for the dreaded "investment". A well structured collection of solid cards of major, high-demand HOFers is likely to be easier to sell and a safer bet over the long haul than one or two mega cards. It is called diversification. Plus, you get to lovingly gaze at a pile of beautiful cards instead of just the one. If I had $10,000 to spend and I was looking for a long term buy and hold situation with good liquidity, I would probably buy the following, all graded by the company or companies of my choice:<BR><BR>T206 Cobb vg or better<BR><BR>T206 Johnson vg or better<BR><BR>T206 Young vg or better<BR><BR>T206 Mathewson vg or better<BR><BR>1933 Goudey Ruth vg or better<BR><BR>1933 Goudey Gehrig vg or better<BR><BR>1941 Play Ball Williams vg-ex or better<BR><BR>1941 Play Ball Dimaggio vg-ex or better<BR><BR>1954 Topps Aaron nm or better <BR><BR>1954 Topps Mays nm or better <BR><BR>1961 Mantle nm or better<BR><BR>1963 Koufax nm-mt or better<BR><BR>You could turn out a collection like this in a week or two if you had to, and come out ok. <BR><BR>All that being said, I think you are infinitely better off choosing a particular type of card you really like and sticking with it. If you are into T206's, don't go into CJ's looking for a sexy investment. Concentrate on buying a really solid T206 collection instead.

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02-13-2004, 12:36 PM
Posted By: <b>Hankron</b><p>Many times the best investment is not buying a bad investment. There's nothing sinful about keeping the money.<BR><BR>$10,000 gives you a lot of leverage that should save you money. I would look to purchase a quality collection or collection of items, where the individual items are lower than normal as it is a group lot. You might find something worthwhile in a Leland's or Robert Edwards auction (or not). I would highly recommend you get advice from experienced collectors/dealers who can give good judgement on the quality and value of the collection.<BR><BR><i> </i> * *<BR><BR>I once bought a collection of 500 photographs for about $1,500, because I knew I could sell each photo for well more than $3 each. Almost all collectors want 1 or 2 photos at a time, not 500. <BR><BR>Anyway, I did the biggest sin of a seller which is to sell someone what I paid for the photo collection. I like this person but he is very cheap. After doing the math ($1,500/500), he felt I should sell him one of the photos he liked (naturally one of the best) for $3. I passed on that idea.<BR><BR>He said, "But you bought the photos for $3 each."<BR>I said, "No, I didn't. I bought 500 for $1,500."<BR>He said,"What's the difference?"<BR>I said, "The difference is you would never have bought 500 photos for $1,500. In fact, no one else was either, that's why they're mine."<BR><BR><i> </i> * *<BR><BR>If someone with reasonable experience in collecting came to me and said he had to invest money in baseball cards right away this instant, I would tell him to keep his money. If he said that would like to put his $10,000 into sports memorabilia by the end of the year if good deals came up, I would say that's something work looking into. <BR><BR><i> </i> * *<BR><BR>Last tip: Just because it's in bulk and marked down 90% from retail doesn't mean it's a good deal. A lot of cheap crap is still crap.

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02-13-2004, 03:03 PM
Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>I guess I am royally screwed with my "onesy twosy" collection as an appreciating asset......oh well....at least I like the cards

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02-13-2004, 04:26 PM
Posted By: <b>Hankron</b><p>Paraphrasing Jerry Seinfeld on speculation: "I don't want my money 'working for me,' because sometimes my money gets fired. I've already got a job, so my money can stay home."

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02-13-2004, 06:29 PM
Posted By: <b>Dan Elsass</b><p>All,<BR><BR>Thank you so much for the advice. Utilizing my new found knowledge, that is thanks to all of you, I was able to be a much wiser consumer. I have chosen to spread the money around over a period of time. This particular seller does have several HOF'er cards of lesser $ amounts in nice condition that I am taking a look at. I have a couple Cobb's already too, so that takes the pain away from this particular deal. Let's all be realistic, we have ALL made our minds up that we had to have something and thank God that we have friends whom can talk some sense in to us when we really really REALLY need it. Thank you, I am all the wiser now. Best regards, Dan.

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02-13-2004, 11:04 PM
Posted By: <b>TBob</b><p>&lt;For those buying for future resale, I recommend buying a variety of lesser price quality items. There are two main reasons. First, when you go to resell, there aren't many people who are buying single items for $5,000, but there are loads looking to buy $100-200 items.&gt;<BR>I have said the same thing since God was a boy.<BR>