I have no idea what this means [Archive] - Net54baseball.com Forums

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12-17-2003, 04:02 AM

Posted By: warshawlaw  ebay is not the only place for description puffing. Every auction, I always look for the worst examples of BS in the catalogue. Here are some excerpts from Mastro's T206 Plank auction for a GAI 2 specimen: "it can be stated definitively that the white-bordered tobacco insert card of Eddie Plank is the second most valuable baseball card in our hobby." Well, no, it can't. I can think of half a dozen other cards (Leon, help me out here) that are more valuable than the Plank card. "Its caption is clear and undisturbed, and centering (which favors the top aspect) leaves intact the viewer's overall impression of satisfaction." centering which favors the top aspect-does that mean it is off centered to the top? Turning a flaw into a description item is a nice trick. Sort of like labeling a car with a dead engine as low fuel consumption. "Although corners reflect evidence of handling befitting the item's grade, minor creases are peripheral in nature and do not impinge upon the warm gestalt of its aesthetic." The warm gestalt of its aesthetic??? I have no idea what that is supposed to mean. I suspect that they are calling it a beater with a nice image? They use their tongues prettier than a $20 whore. Here is another, lot 1474, their Zeenuts lot. See if you can pick out what is wrong with the description: "This wonderful collection of 43 different Zeenut "Coast League" cards features the three baseball-playing DiMaggio brothers (all with their surname spelled, "DeMaggio," and including Joe, on two differently posed examples), along with other members of such teams as the Seals, Missions and Hollywood Stars. The 1-3/4" x 2-3/4", b/w cards, perennially regarded as sought-after hobby treasures, have been detached from their original lower-edge coupons. Highlights of the assembly include: J. DiMaggio - Batting (EX), J. DiMaggio - Throwing (EX/MT), D. DiMaggio (FR/GD), V. DiMaggio (GD/VG), Crosetti (EX), O'Doul (EX), Pinelli (EX) and Joost (VG). These beautifully focused items display traces of tape mounting on their blank backs as often seen, along with, in some cases, neatly cropped corners. Since neither aspect interferes with the cards' player images, they have been disregarded in the grading description of these scarce pieces. The collection grades 25% EX to EX/MT, 45% VG to VG/EX, balance lesser. This is a very desirable array of 1930's Pacific Coast League (and future Major League) baseball talent." Give up? They've graded the cards but for the back damage AND cut corners! So, we have ex-mt Dimaggio cards with tape on the backs, and cards with corners cut off. In other words, we have poor to good condition cards. I dont know how we can make fun of the "near mint with a crease" ebayers when the preeminent auction house uses a listing like this.

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12-17-2003, 05:33 AM

Posted By: MWVisually speaking, gestalt means that the constituent elements of an object cannot be separated from the whole. So to refer to a T206 as a "warm gestalt" would be rather confusing since T206s are printed quite plainly with distinct and separate registrations (well, except for those with overprints, ghosted images or big black smudges). My impression is that someone took a psychology class and tried to apply a highly symbolic term to a physically discreet object. Or maybe someone was "high" when the descriptions were written and everything just kinda blended together in a "warm gestalt". Hmmmm...why is it that the word "malapropism" comes to mind.

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12-17-2003, 05:43 AM

Posted By: MWOn that group of 43 different Zeenut "Coast League" cards....I was thinking that perhaps a deep hypnotic trance might help potential bidders overcome any fears or shock attributed to the given grades. After all, some individuals, while in a hypnotic state, might believe just about anything through mere suggestion.

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12-17-2003, 10:18 AM

Posted By: kevinIf you look at past catalogs you will find examples of this type of thing over and over. It is an attempt to impress with big words. Whoever is writing the copy is not as smart as they think that they are. Just because you have access to a thesaurus, does not make you Yoda.

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12-17-2003, 11:19 AM

Posted By: WonkaticketI agree some descriptions can be a little over the top. But keep in mind at the end of the day his job is to sell cards. I see nothing wrong with the way the lots are described; he’s making the best of what he has to work with. Trying to entice potential bidders to place bids on respective lots is all part of the sales game. A little glaze sometimes goes a long way. I think we all are a bit guilty of doing this with cards we have sold or tried to sell. No one really ever says this card is a piece of F-G crap please bid. We all follow up with the “but it has real nice eye appeal” for a F-G piece of crap. People in this hobby since the beginning of time over sell their cards or lots. How many people with the graded cards play the none graded higher line, or low population. I bet it does have a low population I doubt there was a rush at the offices of PSA or SGC on 1958 Walt Dropo’s. Its up to the bidder to decipher the lot and judge wither its worth bidding on. The problem when I started collecting there was no given standard on grading every person had a different NM if you say. It was my job to figure, which ones were NM and which ones were way off. I got out of the hobby for a while and when I returned the grading companies were here and getting strong. They were going to save us from the non-standard. We all could relax they were going to be the standard in grading to make our lives easier. Well I think we all can agree they have not succeeded. Even when we by graded cards or pay to have them graded sometimes we still disagree with grade. At the end of the day this hobby and its items are really subjective and everyone has a different opinion on how to describe or grade items. In a world where every product is over sold I’m real surprised you guys are shocked or upset by this. This type of over selling happens all around us not just on ebay and with auction houses. Not to burst anyone’s bubble but if you drink Miller Lite you wont become popular and hot chicks will not want to have sex with you. Just my two cents. John

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12-17-2003, 11:38 AM

Posted By: HankronI've learned a lot from reading the MastroNet descriptions and keep the old catalogs as reference books. Sometimes, I wish they would include a highlight or other marker so I could find where the description of the lot items started and the intro ended-- especially when it's 5 minutes before closing ... I agree that on rare occasion a description gets a bit hairy (for example, I don't find the words 'Cher' or 'Madonna' neccesary to describe a T206 Wagner), but the catalogs overall are top notch. And, when I'm unfamiliar with material, the intros are often illuminating.

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12-17-2003, 11:47 AM

Posted By: runscottAlthough in the case of the Plank, I would gladly trade it's "warm gestalt" for "great registration and bright colors". I would also much prefer a smaller catalog that did not contain trimmed cards listings. Clipped corners on the Zeenuts is okay (although the description isn't) - that's simple abuse, but trimmed cards should be relegated to lower-status auction houses.

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12-17-2003, 12:20 PM

Posted By: warshawlaw<<In a world where every product is over sold I’m real surprised you guys are shocked or upset by this>> I'm not shocked or upset, I'm amused and poking fun at it all. Of course no one says "this card blows" when they are selling it, nor would I expect them to (Like Sy Berger (is that his name?) once said about writing all the copy on the backs of Topps cards, you can't just say "this guy stinks"); I was just (trying to) poke fun at some very silly, confusing and overly florid descriptions in a catalogue. I mean, does a Plank really need to be gussied up with highfalutin' terms like "gestalt" to sell? I will say this: the result of having all the crap in the descriptions is that it obscured the relevant details of the cards. I had to read the description on the Zeenuts lot a couple of times before I realized that they were not ex-mt DiMags (It doesn't show in the post I made but the grades are emphasized in the listing) but were taped back DiMags that otherwise graded ex-mt. If I, as a person who writes for a living, had trouble deciphering the listing, it is very likely misleading, and that is a problem in an auction catalogue.

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12-17-2003, 04:23 PM

Posted By: Julie(I won't mention the photograph by name that I won auction before last) you have to do a ton of research and make Kevin Struss swear on a stack of bibles; then when it arrives, you go out and buy an $80 microscope...all the same, good ol' Mastro auctions, break your heart every time...

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12-17-2003, 05:05 PM

Posted By: ElliotI've got to say that I really enjoy the Mastro descriptions...kind of brings back the romance of the card. Also, I thought the description of the Dimaggio lot was pretty clear. I would be extremely surprised if the buyer is not aware of the damage to the cards. However, i have no idea what Julie is talking about in the previous post, can anybody help?

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12-17-2003, 05:53 PM

Posted By: runscottI picked up a PF Flyer "Julie Decoder" ring on ebay, and now everything's much clearer. Turn it to setting "C" while standing facing Northwest at sunset, and you should be fine.

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12-17-2003, 09:18 PM

Posted By: AnonymousI like the auction catalogs, but the descriptions are certainly geared towards pseudo intellectuals. That's what you get for hiring MBAs to write descriptions, though I guess these catalogs are geared towards those exact people who would be impressed by the big words. Because they're certainly paying big prices.

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12-18-2003, 08:38 AM

Posted By: Julieand then when I refrain, you can't remember it! Original 1882 photo of Moses Fleetwood Walker with the U. of Michigan Varsity baseball Team... And F**k you! Too! Pick on someone your own size (never mind what I think that is!)

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12-18-2003, 08:53 AM

Posted By: leonI knew what you were talking about......

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12-18-2003, 08:58 AM

Posted By: Julie Vognar.....

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12-18-2003, 09:12 AM

Posted By: ElliotJulie, maybe I would have known what the post was about if it had anything to do with the thread. BTW, wonderful use of the English language.

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12-18-2003, 09:15 AM

Posted By: runscottthere was a certain "rugged gestalt" to it. I am sure everyone knew that you were talking about the Walker cabinet, but I didn't understand the part that implied conflict with Kevin and Mastro. My understanding was that you got Kevin to give you some info that you requested, you then won the item and posted about it as if you were completely enamoured with it...then I saw an ad on the VCBC site where you were trying to sell it. But rather than ask about all that, I thought I'd use my PF Flyer decoder post since it made me feel warm and gestalgic (that's when you reminisce about warm, blurry t206 Planks).

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12-18-2003, 01:26 PM

Posted By: JulieGo back to the classifieds in VCBC, and you will see that I wanyed to BUY "Any photo or card of Moses fleetwood Walker or his brother." That was before I won it IN A MASTRO AUCTION--"Nothing to do with the thread" Are you nuts or something? We were talking about Masstro's auctions. I related one experience. Struss looked at the thing under a 20 power scope, (David suggests at least 80), and declared it to be an albumen print. I won it; then I bought a scope (actually it's 400X, not 80X), and looked for myself. Ever hear of Joseph McCarthey? You F**king bastards! ANYTHING to put Julie down..trying to sell it--the last thing I'd sell. Next question...

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12-18-2003, 02:07 PM

Posted By: JulieI haven't bothered to change it, since nobody ever GETs anything interesting from the classifieds in VCBC. Only the big ads...

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12-18-2003, 03:25 PM

Posted By: Aaron MichielJulie, I hope that's not the case. I have a Wanted ad set to appear in the next VCBC (whenever that might be....) looking for my ever elusive '48 Gehrig Leaf Premium. BTW, I'm not familiar with the background on your dispute, but I checked and you are correct. Your ad was clearly placed in the Wanted category of the VCBC classifieds.

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12-18-2003, 04:16 PM

Posted By: MWIf a few bad apples don't start being nice to Julie, I'm going to start discussing Shakespeare again.

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12-18-2003, 05:11 PM

Posted By: WonkaticketDamn, you guys can be brutal. John

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12-18-2003, 06:52 PM

Posted By: runscottYour 1st and 3rd paragraphs took care of that. Sincerely, Just another F*cking Bastard

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12-18-2003, 10:19 PM

Posted By: Julie"You prattled on and on about how great something you won was, and then you put it up for sale." Now you're all hurt because it made me mad--wouldn't it make you if someone accused you (unjustly) of trying sell one of your very favorite collectibles, after shouting endlessly from the rooftops about how great it was? To the poster who has placed an ad with VCBC: I have NEVER gotten a card, photo, or anything else by putting a want ad in VCBC. If you have anything interesting to sell, I'm sure that's another story. By the way, for those who checked--i still need the A35 Anson and the Mayo Brouthers and Ewing! (Scott sold me a great N162 Keefe...)

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12-18-2003, 11:38 PM

Posted By: brian pTo get back to the original topic, I personally believe the Mastro auction descriptions have improved over the past few years. Sure a gestaltic aesthetic might be tough to top, but just about every lot in their earlier catalogs made me laugh--they were so over the top and schmaltzy and ridiculously convulted. I pulled a random catalog from 2000, the November auction, and picked out a card lot (a complete set of E93 cards)that typifies this 'breeziness'. Mind you, there is some interesting observations included in the description, but they sure get a little lost in all the word puffery. Here is a portion of it: "...another riddle muddies our understanding of the era. The vast majority of cards surviving from that period were tobacco sponsored, which serviced most collectors, youngsters, indirectly. Baseball cards dispensed with candy products would seem the most fluid route to the first-hand consumer. However, extant numbers of these so-called caramel cards are undeniable evidence that the candy industry paled dismally as compared to tobacco. Because these cards, both candy and tobacco, were not sold, but rather served as sales stimulants, the two industries were not competitive belligerants. As hobbyists, we passively regard the scarcity of early candy cards as moot, and the only plausible explanation rests with product networking of the respective industries. And that of the candy was evidently primitive. The E93 set offered here fairly typifies that group of issues. Brief in its variety of subjects, dimensionally similiar to its tobacco card contemporaries, and featuring most of the stars of the day, E93's are the consummate pattern of the genre. In general terms, caramel cards of this ilk entered our hobby as isolated matters of insignificance with large collections of tobacco cards. And now that we're gratified by order and understanding in our collecting pursuits, issues such as E93 have beckoned more intense interest. Because caramel cards were distributed so sparsely, collectors today must generally accept them in conditions less exacting than tobacco cards. The E93 set offered here, though punctuated with typically off-condition cards, is nevertheless one of overall superior quality, and as such we care to itemize the entire set by condition." Good Lord. And there are dozens of lot desciptions of this ilk from the aforementioned catalog alone that are probably even more egregious in nature, rendering the actual items in the lot moot amidst the pale wash of wordy insignificance and wonton explanatory indiscretions (just thought I would try this style on for size--humm, I think it suits me just fine. Maybe Mastro could use a catalog writer that can help return them to their glorious past). Brian

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12-19-2003, 07:39 AM

Posted By: runscottand you have found malicious intent where there was none. Sincerely, one of the F*cking bastards

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12-19-2003, 08:04 AM

Posted By: JulieYes, and although Mastro's patter would be informative and entertaining if I wanted it, what I really want to know is the exact condition of the offered card or cards! This is sadly too often missing. To say what Masro said in one sentence: Sugar (candy) is addictive, but tobacco is moreso, and the availability of cards that came with each reflects this.

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12-20-2003, 04:34 PM

Posted By: warshawlawI've ever read. Just plain embarrassing...