Disillusioned with Mastro--even if still grateful. [Archive]

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05-07-2003, 05:35 PM

Posted By: julieOnly the forum member shall remain annymous--and everyone knows who he is. before i went all out for the Walker photo, several friends advised against it. How did I KNOW is was an "albumen print from the '80s"? (I knew it was Walker because I looked up the "University of Michigan varsity Baseball team" on "google," clicked [again] on "baseball"--and there was my photo, cleaned up and cropped, and still featuring Moses Fleetwood Walker). I called MastroNet. com, and they told me to call Pennsylvania, where all their stuff was. The guy who answered the phone, after a couple of questions, said he'd put an expert on; the expert knew absolutely nothing about 19th century photography. He said to call back on Thursday, when Kevin Struss would be there--or he'd call me. Sho' nuff. he called me, and said the magic words, "It's an albumen print from the 80s." he also said the matting was just a folder, and the photo was attached to a very beat-up mount, and would i liked to see it. I would. I did. I won it. Last night, in the chatroom, I was saying how weird it was that Mastro has 65 autograpgh experts, and only one photograph expert. "As a matter of fact,' said mr. Annymous, "Kevin called me before he called you." "WHAT?" I said. "He was concerned about 2 photos--yours--a little--and a very large 1868 Cincinatti Red Stockings photo." (Very large photos are quite rare in the 19th century). "I advised him to examine the 68 Red Stockings carefully, and he could also do yours if he wanted," but mr. Annymous had seen the scans of mine, and wasn 't very concerned. How do you examine a 19th century photo? You put it under a 100X microscope, and look for fibres; no fibres; no albumen print. So K. Struss examined the '68 red Stockings photo, and found it good. he did NOT examine mine. So when he called me and said "It's an albumen print from the 80s," he was telling me what someone else had sort of, but not quite, said. he didn't know it himself. I got Mr. Annymous to tell me that I would need a 100X microscope, and to look for fibres ("if you really want to go to all that trouble. The photo has every other appearance of a 19th century photo, and none of an early 20th century copy."). I bought one, for $85 (including tax)--and I-SAW-FIBRES. An -up-and-down landscape, sort of braided, with shiny fibres sticking up out of it. I saw fibres. Kevin Struss didn't see them, i did. "This was the first time Mastro had ever asked for my help. I would have been glad to help them any time," Mr. Annymous said.

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05-08-2003, 03:42 PM

Posted By: Tom LawrieMy experience with Kevin, Doug Allen and the others at Mastronet has always been positive. Their bredth of knowledge is pretty incredible, but there are always going to be a few items about which Kevin, Doug or the others may have only minimal knowledge. But from your story I gleemed two points that reassure me: 1. The listing was correct in the auction [apart from David Rudd, how many others of us really know an Albumen from a cabinet from a CDV from a ... (whatever else is out there)?] I'm not certain that I would know an albumen if it hit me in the eye, and I collect 19th century material. 2. Kevin was asked something about the lot, and that raised some questions in his own mind. So rather than lie or blow you off, he double-checked with someone who specializes in 19th-century photography (who, apparently, confirmed Kevin's own understanding). Personally, I'm reassured by your story rather than disillusioned. Take care, Tom

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05-08-2003, 04:55 PM

Posted By: runscottI was just discussing this with a friend - one of things I find really odd about this hobby is that there are so many areas where there IS NOT an expert, but there could be if someone had the interest and inclination to put time into the subject area (but a lot of work might be required). I won't even mention subjects since it might offend some, and that is not my intention. Part of the reason for this, I think, is that this is a hobby and in most cases we don't get paid for our level of expertise; therefore, we become as "expert" in an area as we feel like, then stop. There are also areas where collectors who participate in this forum know very little, yet buy the items in question, and the time and effort required to be knowledgeable are minimal! Examples include: 1) how to tell if a t206 is fake - this is simple, as has been discussed on this board numerous times, yet I see knowledgeable collectors bid on obvious fakes all the time. 2) how to tell if a Cracker Jack is fake - again, simple, many times even from scans, yet again we bid... 3) for Tom - how to tell the difference between an albumen and a silver gelatin print. If you collect 19th century stuff (like "photos attached to cardboard"), then this is a critical skill and easy to learn. Buy David Rudd's booklets, then refer to the items you already own. But I really think you know more about this than you let on <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> For instance, I'm sure you can tell the difference between a cabinet photo and a cdv. If you can't, send me an email. Like Tom, I too am reassured that Kevin would check with an expert in vintage photography, just to make sure - I used to run stuff by David constantly (for over a year, and still do), and learned most of what I know about vintage photos from him. I was such an ebay-hound during that time, that I felt it was okay since I was showing him some really cool stuff I had won. My experiences with Mastro have been extremely positive, but I'm talking more about the fun involved in participating in their auctions, the quality of customer service, and just exchanging communication with Doug Allen, who it's a pleasure to know. My one unpleasant experience involved passing an item by a Mastro expert who was much less than an expert - this surprised, and temporarily disillusioned me. To Mastro's credit, the guy is gone now. Hiring real experts like Derek speaks for itself in terms of Mastro's efforts to keep improving quality.

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05-08-2003, 08:49 PM

Posted By: julie...

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05-08-2003, 09:54 PM

Posted By: HankronI would like to point out that a number of the topics that I regularly harp on ('if it's real it's a photoengraving,' 'look for paper fibers,' 'old photos will likely have silvering' etc) are not just technicalities but have to do with the authenticity of an item. Julie's specific question about the expensive photograph she was bidding on was, whether it was really an original from the 1882 or was it a reprint, circa 1905. Most photographs aren't like baseball cards, where you can refer to a SCD or Beckett to see if when they were made. So the mostly technical facts that Kevin and I discussed related to how to judge whether the photo was actually from the 19th century. In this case, he took out a microscope and looked for paper fibers in the photographic image. What does viewable paper fibers say? In combination with the other qualities of the photo, this almost assures that Julie's photograph was original. This is because that on most 20th century baseball photographs, made with a different process that covers the image in gelatin, the paper fibers can't be seen under a microscope. I know that most collectors, dealers, auction houses (Yes, even MastroNet) and professional graders ignore my regular harping on these types of technicalities. But this is their problem not mine, as I am confident that any major auction house or grader who doesn't know, for examples, the difference between a gelatin-silver and an albumen photograph, or how to identify a photoengraving, will someday, if they haven't already, sold or grade a fake.

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05-08-2003, 11:15 PM

Posted By: RC_McKenzieI was offering 22 e105's on ebay for $3000. He sent me a solicitation email after the auction ended with no bids. 4 months later I got a check from Mastro for around $1800. That's my Hemingwayesque short story version. They don't even send me a catalogue. I'm sure they are good people, but I like ebay to buy and sell. I like public auctions. JMHO.