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03-16-2003, 08:05 AM
Posted By: <b>Jeff McKee</b><p>Hello,<BR> I was wondering if anyone out there owns a 1908 E-102 Honus Wagner fielding or throwing variation,which ever you care to call it.I am trying to get a better idea of how many of these cards may still be in existence.At the time of writing this I only know of 2.Thank you for any and all input on this. Jeff

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03-16-2003, 09:17 AM
Posted By: <b>Tom Boblitt</b><p>from Barry Halper collection..........sold on ebay a couple years back......batting version in about VG to VGEX. Nice color

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03-16-2003, 10:45 AM
Posted By: <b>Rich Jacobs</b><p>Jeff: I picked up a Wagner batting (not fielding) in Ex-NM condition in an auction a year or so ago.

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03-16-2003, 10:58 AM
Posted By: <b>Ben</b><p>I think Jeff is asking about the e102 Wagner FIELDING variation, which is far rarer than the batting variation.

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03-16-2003, 02:27 PM
Posted By: <b>Brian C Daniels</b><p>in "80". I am proud to say I ripped it from a motivated seller from this board five years ago!!! : )<BR>I also bought the highest graded Cobb of this series known as well. I'll have it posted for viewing here later!

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03-16-2003, 02:49 PM
Posted By: <b>Ben</b><p>...I had a feeling that was coming!

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03-16-2003, 04:14 PM
Posted By: <b>Mike Williams</b><p>we ALL did <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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03-16-2003, 08:01 PM
Posted By: <b>leon</b><p><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1047780040.JPG">

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03-16-2003, 08:05 PM
Posted By: <b>runscott</b><p>Brian only has ONE of each?!?

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03-16-2003, 08:27 PM
Posted By: <b>Jeff McKee</b><p>Those are some sweet looking cards you have.I did pick up the Wagner,but still need to get the Cobb.

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03-16-2003, 09:25 PM
Posted By: <b>Brian C Daniels</b><p>As usual............I have two of the Cobb and three of the wagner in lower grade. I also have seven Lajoie Mello Mints* I love E-cards! Should I send you scans?

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03-16-2003, 09:34 PM
Posted By: <b>Brian C Daniels</b><p>for me not to show em your cards bro! errr my cards!

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03-16-2003, 09:45 PM
Posted By: <b>runscott</b><p>just send me the cards

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03-16-2003, 10:07 PM
Posted By: <b>B C Daniels</b><p><a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=31718&item=2715245152&rd=1" target=_new>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=31718&item=2715245152&rd=1</a><BR><BR>photo looks like a 76 " tall boy " basketball card!

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03-16-2003, 10:25 PM
Posted By: <b>Jeff McKee</b><p>Brian, <BR> That was me.But I had him send me some different scans of it.At that price I would say that makes yours worth over $5000.00.Well we are up to 3 known I know of.Pete has 1 also. <BR>

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03-16-2003, 10:48 PM
Posted By: <b>BcD</b><p>as stated above. : )

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03-17-2003, 12:30 AM
Posted By: <b>petecld</b><p>C'mon Brian - make us jealous. Let's see scans of the Wagners.<BR><BR>For those counting, yes, I do own a Wagner fielding.<BR><BR>

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03-17-2003, 12:57 AM
Posted By: <b>petecld</b><p>In case there are any other people besides the person who just emailed me I am aware that just because BcD posts a scan of 3 Wagner fielding cards that it isn't necessarily PROOF they are all E102s.<BR><BR>I made my request just to see if he trips over his 65 copies ot the "Classic Basebal Cards" book he says he owns running to his scanner. <img src="/images/wink.gif" height=14 width=14><BR><BR>Doesn't anyone sleep around here?<BR><BR>

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03-17-2003, 03:14 AM
Posted By: <b>TBob</b><p>Too busy plotting strategy on your caramel cards.

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03-17-2003, 03:32 AM
Posted By: <b>Brian C Daniels</b><p>personal pride in ownership seems to scar and bother you Pete! It's the only time you have anything to comment on my posts.<BR><BR>Just yesterday I told leon you have problems with show-n-tell and yet Leon claims to be the biggest at sharing cards and such. You just can't deal with the simple fact that other people have stuff to share.Your false humility is evidant in the fact posting scans bothers you! To quote you: "get with the program". Sharing pix of cards is part of the prize. I have a few exotic rare cars too worth large dollars maybe i'll post them as well. I do not need to post pix of other cards claiming to be E-102's Pete. really I don't.

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03-17-2003, 03:45 AM
Posted By: <b>BcD</b><p>I won't trip over the books Shamoo because when I look down I can see my feet!<BR>Also, I sold many of the books I hoarded up to people who read about the topic last time it was up.Thanks to Scott trying to zing me I was approached by piles of people on here and shipped away! I sorry your about 12 years too young to have bought them on blow out at Woolworth's in 1988 like I did in order to sell them at shows Pete. As stated previously as well when it was discussed,did you check my feedback to see how many times I purchased the book on e-bay as well? prob Lastly, I have a wife and children to put the books away and make sure they are not in a place where I could trip over them.

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03-17-2003, 10:13 AM
Posted By: <b>petecld</b><p>Thank you Brian. <BR><BR>You just won a very nice Baseball card for me.<BR><BR>I had a bet with another collector that within 24 hours after making that post on the forum that you would reply that would say: <BR><BR>1. I was jealous. <BR><BR>2. contain at least one fat joke and <BR><BR>3. some racial slur or sexual preference slur<BR><BR>All done because I knew you weren't smart enough to reply in any other manner. And like all well trained circus monkey - you performed right on command.<BR><BR>Again, Thank you. I like free baseball cards.

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03-17-2003, 10:31 AM
Posted By: <b>petecld</b><p>Who is jealous of who here?<BR><BR>Checking the bid histories I don't see my name on ANY of your auctions but I see your name on my auctions. Hmmmm. . . <BR><BR>Tell us all again how "I" want what "YOU" have?

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03-17-2003, 01:21 PM
Posted By: <b>Brian C Daniels</b><p><BR><BR>1) I only bid on your stuff to resell it. being as you seem to know zip about business as evidated by your stupid comments on my "failed' business I sold for about 30x what I paid for it,enough to not ever have to work for someone else if i wish anyone with a half of brain would figure out why I would bid on your offerings.<BR><BR>2) you do not bid on my stuff clearly because I do not sell stuff you want to resell.Or as stated above,you just don't resell the kinds of stuff I offer. Which,of course implies also you would not bid on my stuff because I rarely offer anything either of us would bid on!!! I sell my gravy on e-bay just like you do! I don't sell anything I wish to keep.I could post piles of stuff on the SGC registry that would have YOU Buddah face ( as a couple of your gossipy friend's endearingly refer to you )always looking up at my sets...yes, sets plaural. The logic is pretty simple I sell extra and lower grade stuff to buy other things just like you do.If any of my personnal collection where in a real auction, YOU would be bidding all over it!<BR> Ironically,you have both bid on and WON several pieces of my left over propertly.

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03-17-2003, 01:28 PM
Posted By: <b>BcD</b><p>LOL<BR><BR><BR>1 ) you are jealous,I have never nocked your cards or any other possesion if you had any? like a women.<BR><BR>my fat "statements' were not jokes as you call them. They were clearly condemnations on your obese dispicable phyical condition.<BR><BR>3) the sexual preference thing is easy,like you.You are an obvious social misfit hiding in your bath house.<BR><BR>your way to easy as besides cards what the heck does a boy like you have going for themselves? Oh yeah I forgot...........Marijuana ,your close companion. Did you win any of that too Tubs?

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03-18-2003, 11:32 AM
Posted By: <b>TBob</b><p>nm

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03-18-2003, 12:24 PM
Posted By: <b>Wesley</b><p>I need to buy both of you guys a beer at the National. If the comments were not so mean spirited, this thread would be very funny. Does Atlantic City have a Morton's Restaurant?<BR><BR><BR><BR>

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03-18-2003, 06:35 PM
Posted By: <b>Paul</b><p>I don't know if Atlantic City has a Morton's, but Orange County, California does. If you like to take perfect strangers to Morton's, stop on by.

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03-19-2003, 01:46 AM
Posted By: <b>BcD</b><p>What would "H"alph say about that dude? Do you think he would have his students put up with this ****? You should know better. You weren't in Tahoe when a guy nudged Ceasar at a black jack table bro. Do you know what happened next and who went to jail and who got out? The funniest part of the above is the bologna about the " I just won a nice card" thing. Everyone knows I would respond and no one would bet I wouldn't. Anyone who thought I would not would never chat privately with pete because they would support me thus be adversarial to pete and his view point anyway and would never write him.In addition, I mostly sell gold,silver and coins on e-bay and have only had a seller's account for not quite three months so of course he would not be bidding on my stuff as he takes so much pride in. He does not collect coins or silver bars. I respect his collecting knowledge and the obvious similar interest in cards ( not drugs or carbohydrates ).It's the personal stuff that has nothing to do with what he or I collect. In reality,I do not have the same feelings Pete does because I'm married with children and no doubt happier. I just responded to the public zing as due.pete,called me a monkey which is just plain hypocritically silly coming from Magilla Gorilla.I give em something to write about with his time and computer pal group I guess.Notice,never a response to my calling him a druggy and yet claims I am somehow socially improper by making personal references et. That is somehow improper but doing drugs daily is o.k.! yeah,right. He actually does not bother me nearly as much as he might think.I did receive five e-mails applouding my Shamoo reference. maybe your right. We could rumble in a giant baseball card octagon and then go have a Rolling Rock. The jui-jitsu wanta bes's can all watch and bet cards on the winner et. For me,that would be fun. A tune up for a few other's we all don't like for bad card dealings more over personallity clashing.You see,as I stated,pete and I enjoy and collect and want similar cards and that is a far cry from the big card sharks that cause problems in our beloved hobby. Where is the tape Wes?

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03-19-2003, 08:14 AM
Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>As much as I take up for you with folks that you don't even know (and no you never asked me too, I did it because I actually like you) this personal stuff on the board is just a little over board. (pun intended). What does it matter what someone does on their personal time? We are here to talk about vintage baseball cards. I am not going to bring up others personal lives in a negative way...especially on a public board. Pete does more good for the hobby than most folks I have seen. He writes articles for publications (most recently Beckett Vintage) and has the absolute BEST caramel card website I have ever seen. He is also a very friendly dealer and ebayer. I am bald and fat. Who cares? It matters more how I/you/we treat each other than what folks do (as long at they don't hurt others)in their personal lives........please quit the crap....best regards

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03-19-2003, 08:44 AM
Posted By: <b>petecld</b><p>BcD,<BR><BR>Get with the program. I didn't say the bet was simply that you would respond so - "Everyone knows I would respond and no one would bet I wouldn't." is wrong but I guess I typed in English again. Of course you would have responded, duh, the bet was that I knew exactly THE CONTENT you would respond with and you didn't disappoint.<BR><BR>As for the smoking (not tobacco kids, that's bad for you) - Yes, I do from time to time. There, I said it and look, the world didn't end. It's because no one cares. If that's all you have to respond with then it is obvious you have nothing relevant to say regarding the matter and that means I am right.<BR><BR>The person I bet with is a "lurker" and reads the board but doesn't respond because he thinks we're all crazy. How DOES he get that idea. Actually, he is the one who pointed out your post to me with, "There's a post about e102 Wagner cards, guess, who says he has more than everyone else again".<BR><BR>As for insults - Puleeeze. Everyone can go through my posts and yours and keep score. Stop whining, you're winning. I'm not surprised. You can't help yourself and prove time and time again just aren't capable of contributing differently. We can all read, BcD, it's not like that aspect about you is a secret.

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03-19-2003, 10:51 AM
Posted By: <b>Wesley</b><p>There are a lot of jerks in this hobby and Pete is definitely not one of them. Pete has been great help for me since I am new to this hobby. His website has been a great resource for beginners like myself. Unlike some surly SOBs out there Pete is friendly and courteous and my dealings with him are second to none. I have had several favorable transactions with Pete and one stands out in my mind; I made two offers on the same group of cards and Pete was a good enough guy to go back to honor the lower offer. Not too many people would have done that and I am not sure I would have. <BR><BR>You are a good guy too and from you I have learned a lot about the hobby. Also you are one of the few guys I know that consider Ultimate Fighting a sport. Usually my fighting friends do not mix well with my card collecting friends, coworkers or softball friends. I have to get you a tape of the Sunday event where a big Russian fighter beat the crap out of the skillful Brazilian for the Pride World title. After seeing that I am not as convinced as you that a smaller BJJ guy can thwart heavy hands from a big guy. In any event, I don't condone fisticuffs between trading card collectors or anyone for that matter and hopefully you are satified with the zingers that you threw out there. Wes

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03-19-2003, 11:07 AM
Posted By: <b>Wesley</b><p>By the way, I will be in your part of town on Thursday. I will call you after I take care of some business. We could get some lunch if our schedules permit.

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03-19-2003, 11:31 AM
Posted By: <b>Elliot</b><p>I hope everybody is happy with the zingers that they threw out there. I thought this thread had already died, but it rose Phoenixlike. Please be advised that any additional posts to this thread will be summarily deleted (not edited), even if there is no problem with the post per se. You have each others email addys---take it off the board if you feel it necessary to continue.<BR><BR>Elliot

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03-20-2003, 04:22 PM
Posted By: <b>Shemp</b><p>As a new user to this board, I am extremely turned off by the low brow comments being passes off on here. I think you should all grow up and regain your dignity.

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03-20-2003, 05:16 PM
Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>Shemp, this board has a longgggggggg way to go before it close to anything resembling a Yahoogroup. If all you've read is this thread, then yes, it doesn't look well. But if you read all the other posts that are made, then there is no way you should be making a comment like yours.<BR><BR>Most of us here are friends and in some ways like high school that they are groups of people that 'hang out' together and those that think or feel they are outsiders (Roy Huff and friends, feel welcome to put yourself inthis catagory)so we will occasioanlly have a flare up now and then. But it is no big deal and I certainly don't toss out friends and family just becuase of a little disagreement. And certainly wouldn't toss out a valuable resource like board. You won't find a more knowledgable group of collectors anywhere else on the internet.<BR><BR>Jay

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03-20-2003, 06:05 PM
Posted By: <b>MW</b><p>Shemp,<BR><BR>Being a school teacher in Los Angeles, I'm sure you understand that minor arguments or disagreements are not always detrimental to the learning process. Jay is absolutely correct. The cumulative knowledge of board members here is unmatched in many parts of the vintage baseball card universe...don't get too sidetracked by a spat or two and enjoy the ride. Discussions here are far more civil than on nearly any other collectibles forum.

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03-20-2003, 09:31 PM
Posted By: <b>runscott</b><p>that will keep you at "4th Stooge" level.

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03-20-2003, 09:44 PM
Posted By: <b>Jeff McKee</b><p>No offense Shemp,but Scott that was funny.Back to the reason for my question,I did get the Wagner and let me say besides a couple of creases the card has very nice color and is in very nice shape.So I will go on a limb here and say that based on what I have seen there may well be under 20 of these out there.Thank you for all the information that was in reguard to my question.<BR> Jeff

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03-21-2003, 12:35 AM
Posted By: <b>Andy Baran</b><p>Jeff,<BR><BR>The members of this board represent only a small percentage of the number of collectors out there. I would guess that there are a lot more than 20 of those Wagner cards residing in private collections. This doesn't take anything away from the card. Nice pick up. Just my opinion.

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03-21-2003, 01:46 AM
Posted By: <b>RC_McKenzie</b><p>Andy,<BR><BR>My limited experience in trading cards is that "this is it". I collected up about 20 E105's and Daniels offered me 2000 for them. I balked and said I'd list them on ebay. He said Pete and Tbob would courtesy bid and that's about it. I sent them to Mastro and got 1800 before commission and a cherry 4 month wait. Anyone who cares about these cards is on ebay. IMHO. <BR><BR>When Daniels talks about 7 e105 Lajoies he fails to mention the other 10 that exist are recycled. I highly doubt that there are known collections of rare cards by silent owners who eschue ebay.<BR><BR>My uneducated guess is that there are less than 40 known e102 Wagners regardless of pose. I wanna hear differing opinions... Cheers

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03-21-2003, 02:16 AM
Posted By: <b>brian parker</b><p>Just thought I would chime in on this one. I have no idea how many E102 Wagners there are, although the throwing variety sure hasn't popped up often, and near sets that have been offered in the past are missing it. <BR><BR>But what I really wanted to discuss was the fact that there are many collectors out there that have been collecting a long time that either have no intention of selling their cards on ebay (they are collectors, not investors, and once a card is in a true collectors hand it quite often is locked away for life), nor do they advertise what they have on this board (if they even know that it exists--some probably don't even use a computer). Maybe in 5-10-20 years when cards from these 'silent' collections come on the market, then we might have a better idea about the availability of these tougher to come by cards. <BR><BR>Brian

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03-21-2003, 03:24 AM
Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>Don't kid yourself. There are many serious colelctors out there that would never spend a dime on eBay becuase becaue to them it is loaded with fakes and rip off artists. They have dealt with Macrae, MAstro and others for years/decades and would rather continue to buy from a source they trust than from a place they don't.<BR><BR>Jay

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03-21-2003, 07:44 AM
Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>I bought a Lawson's set from Ed Kuschner (sp?) (bigEds) a few weeks ago. We had a very nice, long conversation on the phone. He told me that most people in his neck of the woods (obviously pretty deep woods) didn't even have a computer, care about one, or know about the internet too much. I am absolutely sure there are collections socked away that we have no clue about. Take for instance the OH YOU FAN overprint I picked up at the National last year. The dealer sold it/them to Tom and said they had writing on the back <img src="/images/sad.gif" height=14 width=14> But hopefully that wouldn't decrease the value....My uneducated guess is that ebay accounts for about 10% of the collectors out there.... that's just a guess though.....but what is NOT a guess is that there are far more cards in private collections than we have a clue about......just my 1/2 cent worth....regards

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03-21-2003, 10:49 AM
Posted By: <b>Wesle</b><p>According to the PSA Online Population Report, PSA has graded 5 Wagner (batting) and 1 Wagner (throwing). <BR><BR>According to the SGC Population Report, SGC has graded a total of 8 Wagner cards. The SGC Population report does not distinguish between the two poses.<BR><BR>Who knows about the accuracy of these population reports. Collectors could be sending the same card in over and over again in holds of getting better grades. This might mean that the numbers are inflated. On the other hand, most collectors of such cards do not like slabbing their cards at all. This might mean that the numbers are conservative.

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03-21-2003, 10:55 AM
Posted By: <b>warshawlaw</b><p>Yeah, we get into slap fights occasionally (esp. when Scott's on the rag---jus' keedin!). But the knowledge here is amazing. I've yet to see anyone come in with a question about some obscure issue that no one here could shed any light on. I've had questions about 1911 Zeenut back stamps, differences in ACC editions, obscure baseball publication questions, and so on answered here. This is an amazing forum.

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03-21-2003, 12:01 PM
Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>and a very nice Collins-Mcarthy stamped back Zeenut is in my collection thanks to you..... breast regards

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03-21-2003, 12:08 PM
Posted By: <b>runscott</b><p>Though a moment ago I was ready to fling trimmed virtual Jackson rookies at you <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><BR><BR>I also find this board to be very useful, and I constantly build new relationships with other collectors as a result of posting here. As you post more and others get familiar with your interests, I'm sure you will find the same.<BR>

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03-21-2003, 12:21 PM
Posted By: <b>Todd (nolemmings)</b><p>FYI, davidbvintage has some high grade boxing strip cards up on Ebay right now, if you're interested and somehow missed the listings.<BR>Todd

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03-21-2003, 10:27 PM
Posted By: <b>B C Daniels</b><p>I'm not sure I fully understand your post here but my point was that the Lajoie is the easist of the Mello Mints to find. I think because it is about cards even Pete will agree with me on this one! Until the new "find" the james had originally with piles of beschers & Knights the Lajoie was the one you could count on popping up every three moths or so.I't too bad it's hard to find aged threads because the breakdown on this set has been diacussed a few times before......like all the other E-card sets I know.

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03-22-2003, 12:14 AM
Posted By: <b>RC_McKenzie</b><p>I was just commenting on card populations. You had mentioned that you had 7 e105 Lajoies and 4 e102 Wagner throwings. I was attempting to suggest that that doesn't mean that those cards are anywhere around. I was speaking of e102s and e105s as to populations. My point of bringing you and others from this board into the discussion is that whether I listed these cards on ebay or Mastro, they fetched the same price. I ran an unscientific test and the same 7 people bid on them. I agree that a T206 Wagner would sell for more with Mastro, because even people who don't follow sports cards want that card.<BR> A search function would be cool on here as I did miss the last 2 years posts.

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03-22-2003, 12:46 AM
Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>Brian, I would also add Young to list of 'common' e105s. The group that Macrae bought in the mid 80s had a very large number of Lajoie and Young cards.<BR><BR>Jay

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03-22-2003, 12:54 AM
Posted By: <b>RC_McKenzie</b><p>Jay<BR><BR>Are there any fake e105 and 102s? I can't even sell the real one's I bought for what I paid because I'm not there to snipe 'em. I paid $750 for 3 midgrade e105s in a Festberg auction a few years ago and I will bet that someone who reads this board was the underbidder. BTW they all graded out and I sold them for about $70 per.

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03-22-2003, 01:10 AM
Posted By: <b>RC_McKenzie</b><p>This is a good point. I agree that there are collections that are dormant. The cards are out there in old trunks and shoeboxes. These don't become known examples until some granddaughter finds them and lists them on ebay. Cheers

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03-22-2003, 02:50 AM
Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>Sorry, can't help on any info regarding fake e102 or 105s, but I have not heard of any. Pete and other people that actively buy e-cards would know. Sadly, most of my card knowledge is over 10 years old and am still learning what has developed during my hiatus from the hobby.<BR><BR>Jay

stljunque
01-04-2011, 04:39 PM
I have one that is in good condition...has not been graded...been in the family for about 50 years.

ullmandds
01-04-2011, 05:00 PM
The question was referring to e102 Wagner throwing...but good of you to reprise this train wreck of a thread to the forefront!

jas3232
02-09-2011, 09:11 PM
Just got the grades in and the Wagner Throwing came back SGC 40. With mine I count a total of ten cards ever graded by PSA & SGC combined.

wrapperguy
02-09-2011, 09:54 PM
Since I have only been reading this Board for a year or two and noticed this thread was back in 2003, has this Board always had these trainwrecks and are they more or less frequent now than in the past. We have had some doozies in the last couple years but things seem to have quieted down lately.

fkw
02-10-2011, 03:23 PM
classic BcD... haha
The old Full Count Board was worse ... it was before Net54.

ullmandds
02-10-2011, 05:13 PM
I'd love to see some scans...sounds like quite a lucky find!

jas3232
02-16-2011, 11:01 AM
I'd love to see some scans...sounds like quite a lucky find!

Here's the Wagner back from SGC. I put a couple others under my E102 post.

http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn88/linscop/E102Wagner.jpg