Integrity - Verkman [Archive] - Net54baseball.com Forums

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09-25-2002, 03:43 PM

Posted By: Ryan ChristoffLot #184 of the current Clean Sweep auction is listed as a 1935 Josh Gibson photo. Here is a link: <a href="http://www.csauctions.com/item.cgi?show_item=0000012761" target=_new>http://www.csauctions.com/item.cgi?show_item=0000012761</a> In reality, this looks nothing like Gibson, aside from skin color and the fact that he has a catcher's mitt. I called and told him that in fact the photo was not from 1935, but closer to 1947 or 1948. I explained that from left to right the picture shows Nap Reyes, Ray Noble and Martin Dihigo. The "C" on Noble's uniform actually stands for "Cienfuegos" not "Crawfords" as stated in the description. So the bad news is no Gibson. The good news is Dihigo, which was somehow missed. With one day left, the lot has not been changed or updated, although I only recently spoke with him. Since I have never dealt with Verkman before, I am willing to be open-minded and give him the benefit of the doubt that this was an honest mistake and will be either withdrawn or updated soon. If the lot doesn't get pulled or corrected before the auction ends he will of course lose said benefit and open-mind will clamp shut and lock. This isn't meant to attack Verkman and I hope people don't use this thread to vent about their past dealings with him if they've had any bad experiences. I just thought it would be a good chance to see whether or not an auction house will do the right thing, or the wrong thing. Seems pretty clear cut in this case. -Ryan

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09-25-2002, 06:11 PM

Posted By: Todd (nolemmings)..and it went very well. He had no reserve and a low opening, and I won 4 1957 Swifts commons SGC 96 Mint at $50.00 each. He was very professional. I'm sure you're more knowledgeable than I about dating the photo, but the baseball encyclopedia says Gibson died Jan. 1947, making your estimate of the photo's date at least a little off. Regards.............Todd

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09-25-2002, 07:37 PM

Posted By: Andy BaranThat is not Josh Gibson in the photo.

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09-25-2002, 07:58 PM

Posted By: Julie VognarVerkman (who's phone number has G-O-U-D-E-Y in it) sold me a trimmed Goudey, and then 3 years later, a nice M101-2 Shoeless (perfectly described, a little on the high side -1k--but O.K.). The whole point was, Gibson was dead, and Dheigo (sp?) was ignored...

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09-25-2002, 08:13 PM

Posted By: fkwHere is a picture of Ray Noble from 1950 with the Oakland Oaks of PCL. Frank <img src=http://members.aol.com/canofprimo/50noble.jpeg>

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09-25-2002, 08:24 PM

Posted By: fkwRyan is correct. Notice Ray Noble has the same glove on in both the Remar card and the picture in auction, at least the same model, easily dating the picture to the late 40's. Still an interesting photo of 3 Cuban greats....... but not Josh. Frank

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09-25-2002, 08:24 PM

Posted By: Ryan ChristoffTodd, I think you might have missed what I was saying. The photo is NOT Josh Gibson. It wouldn't matter if Gibson died in 1907, 1927, or 1947 (he died on Jan. 20th, 1947)...it's not him in the picture. Josh Gibson was a bulky 6'1". Nap Reyes was also 6'1". Ray Noble (also a catcher by the way) was 5'11". Dihigo was 6'3". I'm sorry, but Nap Reyes wouldn't have towered over Josh Gibson like he does Ray Noble. It is also not coincidental that Reyes, Noble and Dihigo were all members of the 1946-47 Cienfuegos team. When Gibson did play in Cuba (in the late 30's) he played for Santa Clara, not Cienfuegos. He certainly didn't have a Pittsburgh Crawfords uniform on, not that the Cienfuegos uniforms even looked similar to the Crawfords uniform. Again, I am 100% positive that the photo is NOT Josh Gibson. -Ryan

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09-26-2002, 09:15 AM

Posted By: runscottAfter meeting Verkman at the National and having a pleasant card discussion with him, this is additional positive stuff.

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09-26-2002, 01:04 PM

Posted By: Ryan ChristoffI agree, this is a good thing. In addition to being the right thing to do, it also makes me comfortable enough to continue bidding on the lot that I was bidding on (not the photo). I was not going to bid again if this didn't get cleared up. It's funny how doing the ethical thing is almost always better for business and more profitable in the long run, yet sometimes it seems that this "hobby" is loaded with dealers that don't see it that way. -Ryan

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09-26-2002, 02:39 PM

Posted By: leonbesides seeming like an uptight a**hole when I spoke to him and grading trimmed cards as vg I guess he IS doing the right thing with this lot....although if you hit him in the head with an obvious mistake you would expect him to make it right, if he wants to stay in business.... <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> best regards....

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09-26-2002, 04:39 PM

Posted By: brian parkerJust my opinion, but I imagine the bidders on this lot placed bids with the belief that the photo depicted Josh Gibson. Thus the appropiate thing to do would be to pull the lot and list it with an accurate description in his next auction. But then again, this falls in line with a previous dealing that I had with his company several years ago--sometimes his actions fall just on the shady side of ethical business practices. Brian

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09-26-2002, 08:37 PM

Posted By: danVerkman isn't half bad, he has a fox working for him!

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09-26-2002, 08:53 PM

Posted By: brian parkerThe woman from his company that I dealt with on several occasions by phone a few years back was more like a shrew. Brian

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09-26-2002, 09:23 PM

Posted By: leonAny friend of yours I will give a second shot...but sorry I can't seem to get around the grading trimmed cards as vg....that's just tough....otherwise, maybe he was having a bad day or he didn't like the "utter amazement" <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> look on my face, who knows?....best regards