Posts

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Elliot</b><p>I've been more than tolerant regarding the plethora of recent posts by Dr. Koos and BcD. It is now clear that no new useful information is going to be gained regarding the '52 Mantle, altered submissions, etc. Any new posts on these topics by anybody will be summarily deleted irregardless of the content. If anybody thinks they have some ultra-important post on these topics, they can submit it to me first for approval. <BR><BR>Regarding posts by Dr. Koos and BcD on other topics, that is fine for now, but gentleman you have a very short rope. What has been going on has been detrimental to the board. My preference going forward (at least for a time) is to have you voluntarily submit your posts for approval to Leon or some other designated poster, who will then post them for you. Please contact me via email regarding this methodology.<BR><BR>Regarding other posters, who have been involved in this mess, I will follow up on Scott's idea and your name will be recorded. I know it's childish, let's just all work together on this problem, and get the board back to where it should be.<BR><BR>Regarding further controversies, of which I'm sure there will be many (which is not necessarily a bad thing), one thread and ONE thread only will be allowed. Given the structure of the board, people who want to avoid that thread will be able to do so easily. If they don't enjoy the thread, they only have themselves to blame for reading it. I've felt this way regarding one thread for a long time, but, of course, circumstances did not allow implementation (mainly because I am always reluctant to delete coherent posts that present new information). Going forward I feel there is no choice but to do so.<BR><BR>That's it, that's all, if you want to continue on these topics, take it off the board, you have each others email addresses, and email to your heart's content.<BR><BR>If anybody has any other ideas to allow the board to operate better, please contact me directly.<BR><BR>Elliot<BR>

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>B C Daniels</b><p>contacting you directly? You do not respond! I wrote you a few times and asked others if you were gone and they told me no! I also made steps to correct our family fued and just posted a thread that was inteded to be funny and informative to lighten up the mood! You just deleted it! It gave the guys insight as to properly learn about how to detect alterations and invited them for a crash course in paper,oil & other applications to canvas of which so far, I know far more about than anyone else I see posting about it. You should have done all this about three days ago! it seems a bit late don't you think? feel free to write me on the short rope concept so I can properly present this in view of my defense of my character,habits and occupational issues to those who can contact you on the consequences of the consequences to me. You write this but do not respond to personal e-mails.......you created the board and Leon asked me to participate! Instead of tolerating you might want to take responsibility. And yes! Your post did not find favor prior to private consulting though I realize this may be a learning experience for you as well.

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Lee Behrens</b><p>Elliott was the one that set up the board and has gained alot of respect from the people who follow it if you don't like it leave and go to another board. Elliott's email is available continue to use it.<BR><BR>Will this ever end with you<BR><BR>Lee

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>B C D</b><p>your a hypocrite! if you do not like my response you can leave! or better yet send e-mail to my complaint department-Richard Koos. he will assist you in your concerns about my concerns. maybe i should flame you for four days and see what you do!

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Dr.Koos</b><p>...as I have NEVER questioned removal of ANY of my posts. I figured, Elliot will read all the posts anyway and delete which ones he sees fit to. It IS his house and I'm a guest in it. If he doesn't want something said and washes the walls, fine with me. I'll put on the old overalls and I'll help if I can with the renovating. I won't repeat it or make a concerted effort not to. It's not a good Board, it's a GREAT Board and I feel that no one here should pull punches. Everyone in the world gets up in arms when adults talk like adults using adult language, "Gee, what if the kids read this", but HEY!..this is a Board read by ADULTS and every once in a while guys square off and trade some "leather". That's life. Then they conclude the hostilities and take the gloves off. And what Elliot doesn't feel is appropriate on HIS Board, I'm all for his deleting, part of it, or all of it. I'll do my best to remove all negativity from my posts, which WASN'T MY INTENTION IN THE FIRST PLACE, but just headed in that direction from the warm "Kangaroo" welcome I received from the get-go. <BR>I KNOW, Dan...what about those Pro cards? Thank GOD you were never a judge. EVERYONE would be doing multiple, consecutive life terms, even for jay-walking (no pun intended, J.B.)!! Are you sure you weren't the model for the character of the "Inspector" in "les Miserables"?

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Elliot</b><p>Brian,<BR><BR>--You and I do not have a family feud<BR><BR>--There was one email of yours that I did not respond to, as I was away, and I believe that it was adequately covered off by a post that I made on my return.<BR><BR>--Your post was not funny and informative IMO<BR><BR>--If you're not clear about posting procedures, please contact me<BR><BR>--If you disagree with actions or non-actions that I have taken (not taken) you are entitled to your opinion, but unfortunatly that's the way it is.<BR><BR>I think that covers off the parts of your post I could understand. I'm not trying to start a fight. You've given your response to my post and I've tried to answer your concerns....any further responses will be deleted. If you want to complain, send people emails.<BR><BR>Elliot<BR><BR>

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Elliot</b><p>While I was composing the above post, three additional posts to this thread were made. Dr. Koos is correct, he has never complained about deletion/editing of his post. However, it is very, very time consuming. If he and Brian do not wish to submit their posts for pre-approval that is fine, but if their posts are unacceptable the next step would be to block them from accessing this board. I think a cooling off period is necessary....look at the posts above....BcD is overly antagonistic towards Lee (but perhaps that is just his anger at me) and Dr. Koos in an otherwise conciliatory post can't help himself from taking a shot at Dan.<BR><BR>I think what I said in the top post in this thread is very clear.<BR><BR>Elliot

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Brian C Daniels</b><p>was meaning myself and Koos! <BR><BR> not you Elliot!<BR><BR><BR> and lee,the obvious answer as to why my e-mail address is not there is that I am not registered!<BR>But I have posted my e-mail address a bunch of times.<BR><BR>Cardknowledge@earthlink.net

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Dr.Koos</b><p>..at Dan as a testimony of what happens when someone tries to respect the House's wishes and post something constructive and informative. You have to admit, it does seem that no matter what I post, whether utter nonsense meant to be funny, or dead serious, meant in the spirit of contributing, the brow beating seems to follow along like a bouncing ball.

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>David</b><p>Firstly, whatever his decission, I support Elliot-- as it's his board, and he's a sharp guy.<BR><BR>A while ago I tried a chatboard at my place using this same Network54 system. There are a variety of ways to set up a chatboard. This includes a free for all (like this), where you can only post if you are restistered with Network54 (a slightly more controlled free for all) and an invite only system. In the last, potential posters have to be registered and have the prior approval of the board leader-- be on Elliot's list. This would mean that anyone who wanted could get potentially on his list and post but could also be easily removed, for a short period (a week cooling off) or forever. Again, I support Elliot one way or the other, but if it was my choice I would go with the last system.

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Elliot</b><p>The free-for-all is so much more fun <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><BR><BR>Actually, David, there is another format...all posts go to the moderator first for pre-approval, automatically. I considered all the formats, but the free-for-all allows for the best dissemination of information and encourages new posters, which I think outweighs the disadvantages, which are obvious.

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Lee Behrens</b><p>Damn David now I'm going to have nightmares after seeing that picture. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><BR><BR>Lee

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>runscott</b><p>While some of us might do it differently, the important thing is that the problem gets handled and we turn this board back into something useful.<BR><BR>If any of you have ever gone out looking for a board to discuss a specific topic, you know how difficult it is to find a decent one - almost all of them degenerate quickly into the same garbage found on this one...no, we're not unique in that respect.<BR><BR>Brian - just post useful stuff, we all know you've got it in you. <br><br>--------------------------------------------<BR>

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>runscott</b><p>If you feel you need to edit one of mine, just delete it instead. BTW, I finally finished my vintage card article (now that I'm on vacation-Yippee!), and I'm working on digesting some of our board threads to send out in emails. It was just a matter of having some time to work on it.<br><br>--------------------------------------------<BR>

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>I am in full agreement with Elliot. This board is a wonderful service for the hobby, and ourselves, and it has been abused. It is NOT Elliot's board, it is OUR board. Elliot is just nice enough to put up with our tantrums and bickering and do an excellent, albeit time consuming, job moderating. I will do anything I can to help him in this endeavor (moderating, not bickering <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> ). MY highlighted blue name on this thread gives my work email (I am not too busy right now but hope to be soon) and I will be glad to help moderate for the time being. My email at home, which is on every single other post of mine, is leonl@flash.net, which is not coincidenally my ebay name too. Since I have somehow managed to not spar with Brian Or Doc I will be happy to scan posts before submission. I emailed Elliot last night and asked that he start deleting the anonymous posters posts...the person impersonating other people. That is totally unacceptable. My other biggest fear is that we have very mature, very experienced collectors/dealers/lurkers, with great knowledge, that will go away with all of the fighting about NON-VINTAGE CARD issues. Grading, restoration, and the like are fine topics too but they can also be taken to a personal level, which many posts have done lately. There is no need for that to be an ongoing situation. A little bit of fighting is not a bad thing but the personal attacks and name calling are REDICULOUS. That is what private emails are for, if you must. I know because I have been getting about 15-20 emails at home, a day, concerning the Board. I don't know about ya'll but I want and need the board and want it to stay a fun, informative place. Let's please act like adults AND respect each other.....best regards all...from my igloo

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Brian C Daniels</b><p>Except someone out there loves me! David is your man!<BR>he can teach you things about cards that only years of study & experience can produce! Do you have one of his pink books?

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Dan Mathewson</b><p>I have thought all along, Elliot, that this board was for the discussion of vintage cards, vintage card auctions, vintage card grading, vintage card grading companies, vintage card collecting, vintage card fraud/warnings to other members when vintage card fraud may be occurring, etc, etc, etc.<BR><BR>Yes, I have brought up issues involving fraud. Yes, I will continue to. I have been a victim of it on eBay and other areas more than once. I learned some things from those experiences, I want to learn more so it doesn't happen to me again. I also want to share my experiences and share my observations on this board so others do not follow the same fate(s) that I and others have.<BR><BR>What I do not expect is to ask simple questions and be personally attacked with personal insults in every thread, around every corner. It doesn't just happen to me, it happens to several others here.<BR><BR>This problem/issue is not about disagreement, arguments, or discussions. It is about the third-grade name calling (often times very foul and direspectful) which goes on. This has NOTHING to do with card collecting or having an adult conversation about a topic. It is about plain and simple meanness and the inability to show a shred of respect for other members of this board.<BR><BR>If I ask a question, and someone doesn't want to answer it, why can't he say: "I don't want to answer that, it's none of your business"... or simply just not respond.<BR><BR>...rather than "F*** off you f***ing ********" and go into all the stuff about a person's mother, their sexual orientation, swallowing fluids, and the usual tired tirade of completely outrageous personal attacks to follow? Why does a person need to constantly slam a personal attack into other people on this board? And, why does it need to somehow be "acceptable" here, when all we want to do is talk about cards and help each other out in this collecting universe? What does someone's mother or who they sleep with have anything to do with this Vintage Card Bulletin Board??<BR><BR>It isn't going to stop. These personal attacks will continue to appear, and then, once eveyone or almost everyone has already read them, you or someone might come by and delete them. Do you really think that does any good at that point?<BR><BR>It is your board, but the analogy that "the stinky, loud drunk guy in the bar, every night, is eventually going to keep people out of the restaurant" is certainly not an impossibility here...

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Bill Cornell</b><p>Dan-<BR><BR><i>These personal attacks will continue to appear, and then, once eveyone or almost everyone has already read them, you or someone might come by and delete them. Do you really think that does any good at that point?</i><BR><BR>Yes.

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>B C daniels</b><p>I asked Elliot to delete everything concerning myself and Koos four days ago but he was not around to do so!

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Elliot</b><p>I will put this as plainly as I can----I want the discussion of this to STOP. It is not negotiable, you can agree or disagree with me, but it will not change things. If people don't want to let go, IMMEDIATELY they will find access to this site denied. I am not interested in rehashing old items. <BR><BR>LET IT GO!!!!!!

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Goudey Guy</b><p>As I am new to this board, I've had mixed feelings about the sort of conversations that are posted. I was very pleased to find a "chat room" where I could talk to fellow members about the joy of collecting vintage baseball cards. Not to say that a lot of great pieces haven't been posted, but too many times, I've dropped by and seen nothing but smut and senseless bickering. There are more than a couple of regulars here who post with a low level of class, respect, and common sense. I'm not the only new-comer to state these feelings lately, maybe some of these disgruntled main-stays should be censored or just plain asked not to participate if their going to continue with their non vinatge card retoric. Some old dogs should learn new tricks (and class).

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>runscott</b><p>and I agree that there is lots of great stuff in them. Because of this board I am becoming much more familiar with the restoration detection techniques and the tools available, but what I don't know is...<BR><BR>Do the grading companies use them, and how diligent are they? Brian and MW's comments give me some hope.<br><br>--------------------------------------------<BR>