Priceguide that helps distiguish real cards from fakes.

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Posted By: <b>Goudey Guy (Eric)</b><p>I've had an idea brewing in the back of my head for some time now about counterfeit cards. As a purist in collecting and selling baseball cards, it has become very important to me to understand the in's and out's of counterfeit vintage baseball cards. As I was just responding to the Fro Joy card post, I could'nt help but think of a price guide or book idea I've had bouncing around in my head for a couple of years.<BR>As an internet monster; Ebay has undoubtedly taken over great control of our hobbys quick way of selling. I can only say that this medium for selling has brought too many counterfeiters out of the woodwork.<BR> Now, I understand that the hobby has always circulated fake cards. But before Ebay took over, most buyers purchased their cards face to face with a dealer, holding the card in their hands and looking it over. This allowed for a smaller percentage of forgeries to exist and circulate. With Ebay, pictures do not do cards justice, and in the case of nearly every vintage card, their has been a reprint made of it somewhere along the way, and chances are that their are very good reprints made that would even fool some of vintage card collectors finest. <BR>I have, on numerous occasions, been known to browse through Ebay, only to see a counterfiet for sale. With a Robin Hood mentality in mind sometimes, I have even crossed lines and interefered by alerting bidders about the fraudulent merchandise which they are bidding in. This is why I believe that an extensive guide to couterfeits should be produced. This project would demand an enormous undertaking and time committment, but in the end, would be a very lucritive savior to our hobby. I have amassed my own notes on types of reprints and fakes that I have come across. I have even purchased some to help myself identify them, and to help explain the differences to others.<BR>I don't know that any one person could produce a guide such as this, but if a good team were assembled, the project could proove to be very valuable. <BR><BR>Just think, if a guide existed that was updated on a yearly or semi-yearly basis that described and educated us on known forgeries, counterfeits, reprints, and card altering techniques...would you buy it. I damn sure would!!

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Posted By: <b>Bob Lemke</b><p>Eric, You're describing the "SCD Sportscard Counterfeit Detector". Three editions were produced between 1991 and 1994. Eevery known counterfeit was pictured (with extreme close-up comparisons between genuine and fake) and described. At the time the book was current there were around 25,000 card shops in the country and who knows how many hundreds of thousands of collectors. Despite the fact this $20 book could save a person hundreds or thousands by avoiding a fake card, we could never sell 5,000 copies. We still occasionally run new counterfeit reports in SCD, but a book is apparently not commercially viable.

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Posted By: <b>David</b><p>I'm with Bob on this one. While it's not true in many other other areas, most baseball card collectors, and despite whatever they may claim, are not really interested in learning how to identify fakes or authenticate-- at least not if it costs money or takes time/effort. My book relating to the subject sells well (for my standards not Krause's), but that's because it covers a wide variety of areas, not just trading cards.<BR><BR>I've owned Bob's book for several years (getting pretty beat up-- my book, not Bob), and still refer to it. It's entertaining too. When Bob told me that it wasn't coming out in another edition, I was surprised as it's such a nice book.<BR>

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Posted By: <b>goudey guy</b><p>Bob- I would be very interested in picking up one of those older copies just for reference sake, do you have any available? Its too bad that there isn't something more recent by your publication, I really enjoy your work. Have any positions open?!

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>I have had this conversation as recently as yesterday...at least about vintage baseball card books in general....bottom line is it is a moneyless, thankless job that takes a lot of time. I was speaking with a well known expert about writing a new reference book and, even though there might be 500-1000 serious collectors, it does not make sense to do it. It needs to be a labor of love (not money) for someone that has the time and resources to do it and wants to help the hobby. Lew's encyclopedia is still the best thing out for knowing "about" the cards and the SCD is the best price guide out. What I was speaking about with the expert was an "update" to Lew's encyclopedia....certainly not a new price guide.....regards all (there's been a lot of new stuff since Lew produced the hobby's standard reference)

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Posted By: <b>Chris</b><p>If it helps, Bob, I have a copy of your book...I still see them available in used bookstores around my town for $4-7 a copy. It's well worth the time and money.<BR><BR>I'm thinking of adding a new section to my web site about reprints and counterfeits, and I'm finding the book (and many of the articles on the Cycleback web site) very helpful.

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Posted By: <b>Jaime Leiderman</b><p>I've had the same conversation with Lew about a year ago.<BR>He got burned with both the Encyclopedia and the OJ Newsletters. (Too much work for little money)<BR>Volume 4 was in the works but never made it, back then.<BR><BR>Just take a look how many times Don (VCBC) has offered Lew's complete encyclopedia on eBay for about $30 and most of the times it never sells.<BR><BR>I ended up paying about $200 for the complete OJ newsletter run.

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Posted By: <b>David</b><p>It's interesting, about a year or two ago I considered starting a catalog of the essentials for cards and related(dimesnions, blacklight fluorescence, type of printing, gloss, etc etc) to serve as a practical/beginner's guide for someone considering buying a card that they had never seen in person before (buying their very first T206 or Lone Jack or 54 Red Heart Mickey Mantle). I thought maybe I could offer it as a suppliment to my now out of commision newsletter. I came to my senses after I realized 1) It would be no fun to compile, 2) it would take thousands of hours, 3) About two people would buy it, but only after it marked it down to $2 shipped, 4) Why don't I just shave my head with a cheese grater for the same amount of fun in a fraction of the time .... In any of these endevers, it's the market that dictates, and there's little to no market for this kind of stuff, at least in the baseball card arena.

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Posted By: <b>Dr.Koos</b><p>..a cheese-grater, please feel free to give me a holler, and I'll be my pleasure to do it for you (to make sure that no areas are left undone). Ahhh, the mere thought of it gives me goose-bumps.

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Posted By: <b>Julie Vognar</b><p>...