Counterfeit Fro-joy [Archive] - Net54baseball.com Forums

Archive

04-11-2002, 09:17 AM

Posted By: Tim<a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1820289435" target=_new>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1820289435</a> If I am not mistaken, 1928 Fro-joys (F52s) are supposed to be black and white and any colored copies are recent counterfeits, correct?

Archive

04-11-2002, 09:28 AM

Posted By: leonas the proud owner <img src="/images/sad.gif" height=14 width=14> (but not anymore <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> ) of 2 different types of Fro-Joy counterfeits this is a fake/reprint......regards

Archive

04-11-2002, 03:57 PM

Posted By: BobSeems like the (only) bidder is about to get a $75.00 lesson.

Archive

06-22-2002, 06:03 PM

Posted By: Connor Ciallellai own the set of fro joys all psa graded and they are all black and white the colored ones are from at least 35 years after the originals were made colored are counterfeit!!! connor

Archive

06-22-2002, 08:46 PM

Posted By: DavidSome, in fact most, black and white Ruth Fro Joys are also counterfeits

Archive

06-23-2002, 04:18 PM

Posted By: Julie Vognar...

Archive

06-23-2002, 08:48 PM

Posted By: Dr.Richard KoosMost black and whites have been HEAVILY knocked off through the years. The largest production of B & W and Minor League counterfeit cards occurred ca. 1982 to 1985 by a printer within a 30 mile radius of NYC. He was responsible for AT LEAST all of the following: The countless 1947 Bond cards on a thin two or three ply stiff, square, SEPIA, cross-hatched stock instead of the original 20+ ply, slightly rounded corner, WHITE stock. mostly just the stars were booted (Ted, Jackie, and Stan "the Man" most notably). The countless blank back exhibit cards of (you've got it) JUST the stars: Mantle, Spahn, Ford, Ted, Stan, etc., which ridiculous as it seems, are printed on THE SAME STOCK AS THE COUNTERFEIT 1947 CARDS!!! The countless Ruth Fro-Joys. The countless minor league cards of Boggs, Ripken, and Gwynn from the 1981 offering! Offered to area dealers in 800 count boxes in the early 80s even though only 3000 of each minor league team set were supposed to have been printed!! The 1983 Tidewater Tides Green bordered/blank back card and the 1982 Gooden Blue background card that surfaced, offered quietly to NY area dealers ca. 1985, also carried in 800 AND 3200!!!! count boxes! Warehouse finds supposedly! Warehouse finds thats numbers exceed reported print runs by a factor of up to 1000???

Archive

06-24-2002, 01:37 PM

Posted By: Julie VognarSo, like i said, little joy from Fro joy. About the Bond Bread--the OTHERR 1947 Homoginized Bond bread set that consists entirerly of 13 different Jackie Robinsons--have they been counterfeited? The surface is so strange, with that shiny, beady finish--I'd think it would be difficult. Just wondered if you knew anything about them. i have five of them, and some people, when i tell them this, say it would take 30 years to collect 5 of them in good shape (which mine are). So occasionally, i worry.

Archive

08-12-2002, 01:39 PM

Posted By: Billi also thought all Fro Joys were in B&W .. Ebay has a PSA 5 in Blue ..HELPPPP

Archive

08-12-2002, 01:57 PM

Posted By: DavidVery interesting. I hope PSA didn't make a boo boo. and if they did don't anyone tell MW (Hi, Michael). I'm sure Bob Lemke could provide some valuable comments on this subject. As a rule, any original Fro Joy (black/white, pink, aqua marine, hot pink, mauve, shartruse) would have been a photogengraving. Photoengraving is not identifiable from an auction scan, but is easily identifiable in person.

Archive

08-12-2002, 02:05 PM

Posted By: DavidI have never owned a Fro Joy(they're starting to get expensive, especially when PSA/SGC graded), but it is widely regarded that the genruine cards were only black/white-- and that most of the black/whites are reprints too. Again, Bob Lemke will be able to provide a good opinion on this.

Archive

08-12-2002, 02:44 PM

Posted By: Elliot<a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1849835693" target=_new>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1849835693</a>

Archive

08-12-2002, 08:25 PM

Posted By: jay behrensto my knowledge legit Fro-Joys are only B&W. This is not a good thing is PSA is slabbing bogus Fro-Joys as legit. This set has enough problems with identifying real cards that is doesn't need a PSA to confuse the situation even more. Jay

Archive

08-13-2002, 12:54 AM

Posted By: Tom LawrieI talked to Grady at SGC, and he indicated that they won't slab Fro Joys because of the counterfeit issue, though he indicated that the legit ones are supposed to be all black and white. SGC also won't slab STAR basketball for similar reasons, and won't slab sets where the plates may have been reused multiple times in different years. PSA doesn't know what they're doing well enough to slab Fro Joys.

Archive

08-13-2002, 01:04 AM

Posted By: jay behrensdoes that mean that they won't slab 1984 Fleer updates? I know those made from plates that someone 'accidently' threw in the trash. Aside from some very minute differences, about teh only way to tell the real thing from a the fakes is if the person has the whole set AND the box, since they never made boxes for the 'second' run. Being from MN, a Twins and Puckett fan, I had to learn way too much about taht set and the only way I would buy Puckett was if the person had the complete set with the box. Jay

Archive

08-13-2002, 01:55 AM

Posted By: DavidI haven't heard that story about the 84 Fleer Updates before.

Archive

08-13-2002, 08:04 AM

Posted By: goudey guyI too have owned a fake Fro Joy card or two. The reprints, as previously stated, are black and white, and appear to be on a very crisp white and thin cardbord stock. Sometimes tehy are colored (which should tell you that they are most definately reprints). REAL FRO JOYS were made on a thicker stock of card board which has a dirtier off white almost yellow color to it. They remind me of a Neilsons card in the heavier cardboard stock. I have seen the real ones too, they do exist. The problem with real Fro Joys, is that there are so very few of the real ones in existance, that nearly all vintage card collectors haven't been exposed to them. I haven't seen a real Fro Joy offered on Ebay ever, and have "saved" a bidder or two from learning the hard way. If there's one thing that irritates me more than sellers with a bad attitude, its sellers who sell fakes, reprints, and altered cards. Reprints bog down our hobby.

Archive

08-13-2002, 08:10 AM

Posted By: goudey guyAnother thought on Fro Joys...many reprints and fakes of them have been professionally authenticated and graded. This lends to my opinion that card grading doesn't add value. PSA doesn't know everything about every card.

Archive

08-13-2002, 09:00 AM

Posted By: AnonymousYes, the whole set was reprinted from the printers plates that were supposedly found in the trash. Not sure if they ever found the plates. At first, they were just unloading the Puckett, clemens and other hot cards, but once word got out about the fakes they started bringing in the whole set to make it look legit, but they did not have boxes for them. I would get hte story that the box was in bad shape and they threw it away or some very version of my kid ruined it. Jay

Archive

08-13-2002, 12:23 PM

Posted By: Tom Lawrieand think that SGC's policy is best: if you can't be certain, then don't authenticate it at all.

Archive

08-13-2002, 12:35 PM

Posted By: DavidI hate to repeat myself (that's a lie, I love to do it), but the original Froy Joys should be straightforeward to authenticate as they most probably were photoengraving which is a long out-of-date printing process and is easily identifiable.

Archive

08-13-2002, 01:16 PM

Posted By: Marc S.should opine on this one, being the resident #1 PSA Registry 1928 Fro-Joy graded set owner. It is a touchy issue -- but isn't this exactly what the grading companies are there for? Grading a Fro-Joy might be just as hard as authenticating a Keensaw Landis autograph -- but this is precisely the service that we are sending our money for. I think that PSA has been very strict with these cards up until now. In fact, the only three owners I can think of with PSA-graded 1928 Fro-Joys are Vorthian, John Branca and Steve Verkman has some in his inventory -- and all three of those are authentic (with many having passed through the hands of Mastro).

Archive

08-13-2002, 02:19 PM

Posted By: Dr.Koos...expert (a man that can spot a bad signature from across the street), over 90% (YES, NINE OUT OF TEN) H.O.F. autographed memorabilia of players who supposedly signed items in excess of 50 years ago, are FAKE...Authenticated, C.O.A.ed, or NOT!!! According to him, he has seen TWO good Ruth autographs offered on Ebay in the past three years!!!