Old Judge question

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Posted By: <b>warshawlaw&nbsp; </b><p>Hey, all the Old Judge gurus out there: Is there a size variation on the Old Judge cards? I just got one that is 2 1/2" tall. It is the subset that has only a faint copyright and "Goodwin & Co. New York" at the bottom, and the Old Judge logo in a curved band at the top of the card (similar to the illustration "unnumbered Kelly" on page 15 of Lew Lipset's Encyclopedia, Vol. 1, or the uncut sheet on page 17 of that book--wish it was a Kelly). The other Old Judges I have are 2 11/16" tall but are of a different front style with the brand at the bottom. SCD's big book says 2 1/2" for Old Judges, the American Tobacco Cards book by Forbes & Mitchell says sizes vary, and Lipset's book doesn't really say but has illustrations that make it look like the sizes vary (see page 29 @ bottom left--the Sunday is the style I'm talking about and it sure looks shorter than the Stovey. The card I got came from a major dealer I've dealt with in the past, has consistent edge and corner wear all around and all printing that "should" be there is there. My worry is that if I ship off two Old Judges of different heights to be graded by the same service, they will automatically kick the shorter one, even if the cards are both authentic (I grade 'em for presentation and protection BTW, not authentication, so I don't really care about the graders' take on the authenticity, I just want all my type cards to look the same for display). <BR><BR>HELP!!!

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Posted By: <b>scott (runscott)</b><p>but size sometimes varies. I have one that is clearly 1/4" or more short, but no evidence (or reason) of tampering.<br><br>--------------------------------------------<BR> no disclaimer - temporarily taking responsibility for my actions

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Posted By: <b>Brian Hodes</b><p>Actually my understanding is that the cards you describe are OK so long as they have the Goodwin line at the bottom -- size does vary considerably in this set. That said I would defer to some of the serious Old Judge mavens who frequent the Board (i.e. Jay).<BR>Assuming the graders you are talking about are SGC/PSA or GAI I think based on the graded Old Judges that I have seen that are aware of this and would probably not just reject the smaller card.

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Posted By: <b>Julie Vognar</b><p>but anything in between is probably also O.K., as long as everything's there and in correct proportions.<BR><BR>i would avoid PSA, because they send your old Judge I(thus admitting they have no intention of providing different sized containers for the different sized old judges) in a BAG, attached to the hard plastic frame. The thing could slide around in there asnd get dinged. REALLY dumb.<BR><BR>I've been told thatSGC is picky about the backs of Old Judges, even though most people wouldn't care if there was a naked dancing girl on the back, as long as corners were good, front picture was clear, and contrast was good.<BR><BR>Most peopole who get Old Judges graded do it to have correctness of size acknowledged, protect card, and have back up that card is original, not rebacked, or reprinted. The grade is likely to be lower than you'd like.<BR><BR>For someone who owns 6 Old Judges, I sure have a lot to say.<BR><BR>JAY? EXPERT OPINION NEEDED.Please forgive me; Terry said it could just as easily have been a misunderstanding, and he's long since sold the Nichols (not to mention an S.F. Hess You Know Who..)

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Posted By: <b>scott (runscott)</b><p>sound weird, but true.<br><br>--------------------------------------------<BR> no disclaimer - temporarily taking responsibility for my actions

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Posted By: <b>Julie Vognar</b><p>WHERE IS JAY MILLER?

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Posted By: <b>scott</b><p><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1027817375.JPG"> <br><br>--------------------------------------------<BR> no disclaimer - temporarily taking responsibility for my actions

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Posted By: <b>Jay Miller</b><p>There is a good deal of variation in the size of Old Judge cards. 1887 cards show the most size variation. 1888 cards tend to run small. 1889/1890 cards are usually normal to large. I have never measured an Old Judge card so I couldn't comment on the numbers being put forth but my qualitative view is that if everything else looks O.K. with the card it is probably fine. If you like send me a scan and I will give you whatever feedback I can. Please send any scans to curl777@aol.com.

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Posted By: <b>Julie Vognar</b><p>...

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Posted By: <b>Jay Miller</b><p>Julie---did you get my email?