Too Good To Be True? [Archive] - Net54baseball.com Forums

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07-12-2002, 05:21 PM

Posted By: scott (runscott)Easiest identifier for me is the clipped corners. They should have cut them slowly to give a slightly rounded appearance, then sanded with fine-grain sandpaper. Someone else's turn... -------------------------------------------- Disclaimer I apologize for any poor grammer, repetitions, or dangling participles that you may locate in the above post...it ain't about grammar nohows.

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07-12-2002, 05:24 PM

Posted By: scott (runscott)notice the shades (they changed their handle recently), the location (Ohio Kentucky border), and ... the capper... a very "Tuttleian" auction: <a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1843280757" target=_new>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1843280757</a> I think our boy's back! -------------------------------------------- Disclaimer I apologize for any poor grammer, repetitions, or dangling participles that you may locate in the above post...it ain't about grammar nohows.

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07-12-2002, 06:43 PM

Posted By: Bill CornellThis is the same person who has been selling on eBay recently as both "bbluegrassboy" and "atticfind11" (one of her many listings can be found here: <a href="http://page.auctions.shopping.yahoo.com/auction/68045317?aucview=closed" target=_new>http://page.auctions.shopping.yahoo.com/auction/68045317?aucview=closed</a>). The descriptions from this eBay auction and the Yahoo auctions are nearly identical when you see the wording, especially the "as/is...no returns...etc." Her name is Selma Jane Martin and she lives in Stout, OH. I know from winning one of her Yahoo listings and seeing the cards that she's a con artist who plays dumb. The cards are all reproductions that have been purposely "aged" to make them look real in the scans. Not to mince words: she's a thief. Bill

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07-12-2002, 06:59 PM

Posted By: leonIt's hard to believe some of these dumba**** are really wanting their fakes by their feedback comments....unreal....regards all

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07-12-2002, 07:11 PM

Posted By: Julie Vognar...

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07-12-2002, 07:37 PM

Posted By: Julie Vognar"granddaughterno1" has done nothing but buy for the last few months, and always pays on time. "bluegrassboy" and (whatever the other ione is) aren't selling anything at the moment. Oh, granddaughter buys mainly antique pocket watches. Nary a card... I can't find any other examples of her selling cards, except for the two you guys mentioned.... Where the backs of the cards are visable, there's no telltale smudge where "reprint" would be. You're SURE this kitty is a thief?

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07-12-2002, 08:02 PM

Posted By: brian parkerbbluegrassboy was the same dealer I pointed out on a previous thread in June (titled Yahoo!) that was suspiciously selling large lots of cards on Yahoo, consisting almost entirely of vintage HOF players, with varying stories about how they came into their possession. Here is the link again to this seller's closed auctions--check out how high some of these lots went for. <a href="http://csearch.auctions.shopping.yahoo.com/cuser?userID=bbluegrassboy&acc=us" target=_new>http://csearch.auctions.shopping.yahoo.com/cuser?userID=bbluegrassboy&acc=us</a> Brian

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07-12-2002, 08:08 PM

Posted By: Bill CornellJulie- Yes, it's the same seller. Some of the things she's bought on eBay have subsequently appeared on Yahoo, now grouped with "possibly valuable" cards like OJ Anson's, T206 Cobbs, '52 Bowman Mantles, etc. The OH/KY border address on both eBay & Yahoo is another giveaway. There's no chance that the OJ lot on eBay is real - she is a phony with no conscience and no real cards.

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07-12-2002, 11:13 PM

Posted By: B. HodesThese cards looked kosher to me at first and I try not to consider myself an easy mark .. But, the evidence marshalled in this thread is downright frightening. Nonetheless the sale price on this seemingly random assortment of the 19th century's finest continues upward and many of the bidders are not exactly newbies. Hopefully someone will retract and scare some of the other bidders away....

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07-13-2002, 09:58 AM

Posted By: Bruesowith no feedback. Does this bidder's name tell the story?

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07-13-2002, 12:27 PM

Posted By: RobertThis person's recent purchases on Ebay include old pocketwatches that look very similar to the ones being sold on the Yahoo auctions along with the repro cards. Also, if you were saving up money for school, why would you be making a slew of purchases on Ebay of old pocketwatches!? And, if you don't know about these cards, why would you choose a hall of famer as the only one with its own image. Hmmm... Many, many questions.

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07-13-2002, 01:09 PM

Posted By: scott (runscott)with the clipped corners. Also, there is sometimes "white" paper exposed near the edges. Finally, the "creator" or "evil-doer" likes to bend the cards in two, leaving a very odd crease indicative of bending and then re-straightening multiple layers that are not bound together as well as actual vintage cards.

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07-13-2002, 01:44 PM

Posted By: Dan MathewsonSeveral retractions are showing up on this auction, so I guess that's good. Maybe more will follow. I jsut sent the seller this message, not that it will likely make a difference: It looks like several retractions are happening on this auction, and finally someone is noticing that your cards are falsely doctored reprints/reproductions. I'm also curious...in your listing, you say that you are needing the money to start school this fall. Then why in the last 6 weeks or so, have you spent hundreds and hundreds of dollars on old pocketwatches, antique cigarette boxes, decadent car accessories (like remote car starters, etc), electronics and stereo stuff and MP3 and CD burner peripherals, and on and on and on. I think that this is what people call a scam. And, I'm FAR from being the only who has noticed. Personal opinion, but I think people like you who try to take advantage of others on eBay are shameful and an embarrassment to the "sport" of vintage collecting. Take it or leave it, but if someone buys this under these pretenses, I hope you get charged for fraud. Your auction has been discussed on several bulletin boards all over the internet and your other eBay and Yahoo handles are well known. ****Best of luck to you. I hope you can change your ways and stop trying to rip people off.

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07-13-2002, 02:33 PM

Posted By: Tom'Guess it's safe to say you don't go to church on Sunday...........'

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07-13-2002, 03:17 PM

Posted By: RobertThis eBay seller says she is on the border with Kentucky, and interestingly Friendship, Ohio (home of Yahoo's bluegrassboy and attic find) is also close to the Kentucky border...what a coincidence! Imagine all those great cards and pocketwatches (some of which were from England) were found on the Kentucky border by someone's hardworking grandfather. Too bad my relatives never found themselves touring the Ohio-Kentucky border, that bastion of pre-war hall of fame cards. If only my ancestors had smoked Murad cigs, maybe they, too, would have found a bunch of Old Judge cards!

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07-13-2002, 03:51 PM

Posted By: Dan MathewsonCheck it out now, there are more retractions than there are remaining bids. I hope everyone there notices that these are bogus...

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07-13-2002, 04:43 PM

Posted By: Julie Vognarsomeone is still bidding over $600 on both auctions. Can't win them all!

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07-13-2002, 09:33 PM

Posted By: Brian C Danielsused the Irish/Italian handle of " Irish~Pasta "

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07-13-2002, 11:19 PM

Posted By: Dan MathewsonIt keeps whittling down. Now down to $440... <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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07-13-2002, 11:53 PM

Posted By: Dan MathewsonLook at what our mysterious seller "grandaughterno1" just won/purchased a month ago... Shades of things to come... <a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?MfcISAPICommand=ViewItem&item=1833403492" target=_new>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?MfcISAPICommand=ViewItem&item=1833403492</a>+

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07-15-2002, 10:33 AM

Posted By: Jay MillerWith the caveat that it is very difficult to tell that much from a scan, and neglecting for a second the comments made on the board, looking at these scans for the first time I would have said that there is a decent chance that the cards are rebacked but genuine (not reprints). The white that you folks are seeing and the clipped edges are all signs of rebacking. However, the color of the cards, and more importantly, the variation in the color of the cards, all seems consistent with genuine pictures. I have never seen reprinted Old Judge with good color and these seem to have it. For someone in the Midwest it might be worth buying the lot and driving down to pay when you pick it up and inspect it.

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07-15-2002, 10:44 AM

Posted By: scott (runscott)In experimenting with copying other albumen photos, to make well-identified repros, I have found that it is very easy to match the colors and the paper. If anyone is interested in how to do it, email me, but I don't feel like giving the thieves any additional tips. -------------------------------------------- Disclaimer I apologize for any poor grammer, repetitions, or dangling participles that you may locate in the above post...it ain't about grammar nohows.

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07-15-2002, 11:42 AM

Posted By: Jay MillerI'll take your word for it Scott. I have never tried to do it. However, doesn't that beg the question as to where the seller got the originals to make the copies from, or can you do it off good scans? The sellers name and address is on the lot. Does anyone live near her so that someone could see who this person is and what the cards look like in person?

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07-15-2002, 12:06 PM

Posted By: Bill Cornell<a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1843233155" target=_new>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1843233155</a> I'm sure this seller would claim that she was the victim of a witch hunt; she'll also likely want a refund for the $8.95 CD with images of old cards that she bought recently... My prediction is that this lazy con game is too tempting for residents of Stout/Friendship/West Portsmouth, OH to give up and their made-to-order cards will soon show up under other ID's.

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07-15-2002, 12:10 PM

Posted By: brian parkerIt appears our dishonest seller friend has cancelled both of those auctions. My guess is that they will offer each lot to the one of the highest bidders and thus keep their feedback intact. I have to admit overall the cards do look very authentic--now that the seller has that cd with the vintage cards, it looks like she will become a virtual fake factory. She also has hit upon another selling tack--the BIN for a large lot of vintage cards at an irrestible $500 price. To top it off, it is private auction. Perhaps she has stumbled across a solution to all those retractions detracting from her God given right to sell bogus cards. A link to her latest auctions: <a href="http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?MfcISAPICommand=ViewListedItems&userid=grandaughterno1&include=0&since=1&sort=3&rows=25" target=_new>http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?MfcISAPICommand=ViewListedItems&userid=grandaughterno1&include=0&since=1&sort=3&rows=25</a> Brian

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07-15-2002, 03:25 PM

Posted By: scott (runscott)Those are the ones being used by the $9.99 c.d.-seller. I already verified this by checking on the scans in his ebay posting. I have made some repro cabinet photos using scans sent by board members, and trust me - they look good enough to where, when scanned they will fake out most anyone. Also, there is a good chance that the winner of the forger's cards will not know the difference, even when holding them in their hands - otherwise; why would they be stupid enough to buy this stuff without doing some research? This means that the winner will probably be selling some of them individually as "real". Hopefully it will be someone who is honest and has good feedback, so they can be returned if a knowledgeable collector wins any of them. The best we can hope for is that the idiots keep selling them to each other as "unauthenticated no returns". -------------------------------------------- Disclaimer I apologize for any poor grammer, repetitions, or dangling participles that you may locate in the above post...it ain't about grammar nohows.

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07-15-2002, 03:33 PM

Posted By: scott (runscott)I've never attempted to make a completely realistic forgery, other than a forged color certificate I sent to David Rudd as a test (yes, he passed, despite my best effort!). I packed it up as if it were real and shipped to David, who thanked me for sending a nice fake. Jay - I only have one real Old Judge, but it should suffice for creating a forgery. I'll send you a scan of the fake, along with the actual card, and you can tell me if the color looks right. I haven't made it yet, so be patient. -------------------------------------------- Disclaimer I apologize for any poor grammer, repetitions, or dangling participles that you may locate in the above post...it ain't about grammar nohows.

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07-15-2002, 04:13 PM

Posted By: sjmcardsWouldn't you like to know how many of your own made offers on these cards by email??

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07-15-2002, 04:27 PM

Posted By: Bill CornellLemme see - sjmcards@yahoo.com... coincidentally the same initials as Selma Martin and Sheanna Mershon. By the way, she's using a Yahoo email account coming from an AOL IP address. Anyone can look this up on <a href="http://www.samspade.org" target=_new>http://www.samspade.org</a>. She can lead collectors into temptation - producing real cards is a trick she'll never master. I see a NARU in her near future.

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07-15-2002, 05:01 PM

Posted By: ElliotNow that we know that you read this board, I guess you can't use the "I don't know if they're real or fake" approach on your listings. The cards are FAKE, FAKE, FAKE.

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07-15-2002, 06:03 PM

Posted By: MWAnd besides the cards being FAKE, FAKE, FAKE, the seller is a FRAUD, FRAUD, FRAUD.

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07-15-2002, 06:06 PM

Posted By: scott (runscott)...all you had to do was make more of them. But, seriously, think about it - why would someone send you an "ask the seller" email and make an offer to you? Perhaps there was another motive. Of course, now that you've published your email address you will stop getting the offers. -------------------------------------------- Disclaimer I apologize for any poor grammer, repetitions, or dangling participles that you may locate in the above post...it ain't about grammar nohows.

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07-15-2002, 07:22 PM

Posted By: Dan MathewsonIt won't matter if they read our board or not, Elliot. SJM Cards obviously has no conscience, no need for honesty or integrity. They're out to use eBay as a vehicle to screw people over and that's it. They obviously can't make an honest living. I think I'll by cards only if I see they are graded by PSA, MINT or SGC. All these a-holes out there like SJM Cards, without integrity, will have to prey on others. SJM is such a loser...