James~How could you write this stuff????? [Archive]

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04-27-2002, 11:47 PM

Posted By: Brian C Daniels  it's not that these cards are absolutely NOT ex-Mt* And they are not! it's the whole commentary you wrote in each and every ad! Are we excluded from who should bid on this stuff?? These T-206's are ex at best! Most of them seem to have little pieces worn away from a corner! Now that your on this board.....you got to know someone is going to view these??? <a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1824741380" target=_new>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1824741380</a> <a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1824740857" target=_new>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1824740857</a> <a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1824742565" target=_new>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1824742565</a> now come man! this one is too much! <a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1823990283" target=_new>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1823990283</a> and yes, you did qualify why you did not get this one graded...but that means you subscribe and count on more coin from graded cards......you graded this card ex++/mt it's VG my friend! No matter who grades it......how is it ex++/mt given the reason you did not send it in? If not for the paper loss ,do you think it would have graded higher??? <a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1824745033" target=_new>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1824745033</a> ex/mt "true" ex-mt This card is vg/ex <a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1824746068" target=_new>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1824746068</a> "MINT"......paper loss in hair! <a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1824747906" target=_new>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1824747906</a> ex-possibly...if they are generous <a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1824747436" target=_new>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1824747436</a> this one is the prize winner! PSA-3 !!! "TRUE" ex-mt! come on James...look at this card when sober pal! <a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1824747658" target=_new>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1824747658</a> your definition of and ex/mt card is not the same as either PSA or SGC please do not apply for a job with them. <a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1824743709" target=_new>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1824743709</a> look at the lower left corner......this card will NOT get a "7" or 84..it will not! I'll probably get flamed for putting these here but damn James,that will not restore the corner wear on most of these cards! You have sent plenty enough cards in to know these grades are bogus!

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04-28-2002, 12:50 AM

Posted By: vorthian<< it's not that these cards are absolutely NOT ex-Mt* And they are not! >> NASA might slab them as... "WOW - ULTRA-HOT NEAR MINT 6"

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04-28-2002, 08:27 AM

Posted By: leonJames but these are not ex-mt cards. If you sent them in to PSA or better yet SGC you would get all 40's-60's......or 1-3 grades lower than your descriptions. Now I know why the guy I bought the E221 said his/my card is near mint with 3 heavy creases and chocolate stains.....I understand hyping to sell but you don't need to go that far. You are more advanced than that....and for about $7 you could get them slabbed and if they came back 6's or 80's you would reap much, much more money. You know that....or don't you?...again, I have never had personal problems with you (save, a few errant emails) but you know better.......good luck and best regards

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04-28-2002, 10:23 AM

Posted By: MW<< Tired of looking at cards listed as EX-MT that are anything but that? >> BcD is right. After looking at some of these listings, it's time for a nap.

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04-28-2002, 12:49 PM

Posted By: AnonymousI thought Wayne Brady made me laugh hard this morining when I took him to the airport, but I was laughing so hard at this I almost had tears in my eyes. As MW pointed out, if they truly were ex/mt cards, it would be worth far more than the $7 fee to get them graded. Jay

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04-28-2002, 04:04 PM

Posted By: Julie Vognar....when people regularly auction cards off for 2 or 3 grades higher than they are? Ex, or in some cases ex+, I say. The Hugh Grant card (he looks like Hugh Grant, sorry) may have paper loss in hair, or something got on the duplicating equipment. Anybody notice that Evers looks like Richie Cunningham (the one who just won an Oscar for directing the best picture of the year--NOT).

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04-28-2002, 04:16 PM

Posted By: BcDThe history of James'posts, threads and some pot calling the kettle black on this board et.... And besides,did you look at the ones I linked above? half a grade....no problem but read the ads!And also, I am a bad guy delux. Someone needs to be the comparison guy.

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04-28-2002, 04:28 PM

Posted By: Julie VognarHonest description of faults on e-bay gets my bid over an ambiguousa scan and "mint."

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04-28-2002, 04:37 PM

Posted By: Eric AngyalIt seems to me that a lot of people who should know better (and probably do, but aren't admitting it) are jumping on the T-206 greed train before it pulls out of the station. Nobody can successfully argue with me that the Jverri cards grade as described. If so, I have a bunch of vg and vg/ex cards I should be able to sell to you as ex/mt's and I shouldnt hear a peep of complaint. As far as some of the other posters here, it seems to me like the emperor has new clothes. There can't be one grading standard when you are buying and another when you are selling which is what some dealers now seem to be advocating (I know I am generalizing - I dont intend to offend the innocent). I dont subscribe to the theory that some people (mostly dealers) have that if the graded holder says so then it must be true. Blind faith is not always such a good thing. I have come to the conclusion that grading of cards is a scam and a sham. Buy the card for what it appears to be based on your experience, not what the graders say it is. The buyers experience is worth way more in the long run over what any grading company says. If it seems like a bunch of crap is being spread out with hype, it probably is. I have seen too much crap being produced by the grading companies lately to believe anything that they put on a holder. Just a few observations and common sense tips to collect by. Good day. Eric

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04-28-2002, 05:18 PM

Posted By: jay behrensthe above post was me Jay

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04-28-2002, 05:29 PM

Posted By: petecldEric, You state, "There can't be one grading standard when you are buying and another when you are selling which is what some dealers now seem to be advocating..." Eric, I've been involved in the hobby for 20 years and believe me, it is NOTHING new. If they didn't do it, they wouldn't make as much money. Remember, a seller is your best friend when you are BUYING a card. True colors come out when you go to sell a card. Honestly, I don't understand why everyone is all that upset about these auctions. Over grading by the seller is nothing new and granted I don't think the cards match described grade but since images are posted why should any buyer be caught off guard. I not saying that years ago these cards would be considered Ex/Mt but some wouldn't be graded down as much as others are saying they are. besides the seller only claims to be offering an accurate "depiction", not description.

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04-28-2002, 05:44 PM

Posted By: jeffand you're STILL looking for that E90-3 Gandil? On topic, I agree with Pete here -- if you ever want very suggestive info about dealer buying practices, check out the buy prices in the back of a Kit Young catalog next time he runs a sale. If I remember right, his sale prices, contrasted with his buy prices, suggest strongly that what he buys at "vg" is sold at "vg-ex" or "ex." And so on. And since you mention dealers when they are buying from you, let me mention my pet peeve: you offer a card for sale, and they proceed to tell you all of the defects. As if you don't know! I even get that from ebay buyers sometimes -- "I would buy your card at that price, but it's got that big crease." Well, duh! If it didn't have that big crease maybe it'd cost a lot more! I know that it is often used as a negotiating ploy, but usually it negotiates me away from a dealer's table. Jeff

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04-28-2002, 06:27 PM

Posted By: runscott<img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> lol

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04-28-2002, 07:11 PM

Posted By: MWThe bottom line is whether you are a collector or a dealer or some combination of the two, there is always less of a discrepancy with respect to condition (on pre-war issues) if the card is encapsulated in an SGC holder. Minor differences of opinion may still exist -- perhaps even as much as a half or whole grade between some hobbyists, but there is much more of a mainstream standardization of grade. There are fewer "hidden" defects and fewer worries about liquidity or value. With the exception of the two most dubious grading companies (PRO and NASA), the majority of eBay listing problems in pre-1950s baseball cards revolve around ungraded material -- everything from forgeries to "raw" material that is overgraded. I think BcD's point was a valid one. If JVerri is going to criticize SCD for overgrading T206s, then he should be held to the same, low standard (OK. I was just teasing about the "low" part <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> ).

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04-28-2002, 08:06 PM

Posted By: jay behrensmy second post was supposed to go under the anon post I made, but for some reason, it did not even though I click on the respond button in my message Jay

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04-28-2002, 08:34 PM

Posted By: Brian HodesAs someone who often sells when they get upgrades I have given the issue of how to sell sucessfully without crossing into misrepresentation quite a bit of thought. I don't for a minute pretend these are the ANSWERS (or that I won't change my mind)... but anyways here's where I am right now: What the cards BCD points out have in common (from a sellers point of view) is that they are all more presentable (i.e. look nicer, have subtler defects) than their technical grade would ever give them credit for. In other words while PSA/SGC would likely give a card a VG/EX grade at first blush it would pass off as Ex-Mt. This is exactly why if I were the seller I would be a reluctant to send them to SGC/PSA for $7-$15 a pop. That doesn't mean that I would grade them EX-Mt or whatever. I might use an adjective like "nice" or "sharp" or "beautiful" or whatever but I would avoid calling them Ex-Mt when that implies a certain amount of objectivity or formality that would be (as James acknowledges in his description of the Matty card) belied the minute a reputable grading company graded the card. Really his cards are EX-Mt or whatever in appearance but not technically in grade. Putting the "appearance grade" in the description catches more eyes on the item and, in many cases, fools "unsophisticated consumers." When I list cards like this I try to point out the subtle/technical flaws while highlighting that these are very attractive cards whose "overall appearance" exceeds their technical grade.

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04-28-2002, 09:31 PM

Posted By: petecldOver the years I've passed on a few and was WAY, WAY, WAY outbid on another example over the years but yes, I STILL need the Gandil. I'm sure you're as tired of reading about the fact that I need one as I am of asking. I've got lots of E-cards if anyone wants to trade. C'mon people, let the Black Sox thing go already. This Chicago collector wants to complete his set of home town heroes. Please, with sugar on top?

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04-29-2002, 10:01 AM

Posted By: MW<< Really his cards are EX-Mt or whatever in appearance but not technically in grade. >> Huh? Also, how can overall appeal exceed the technical grade of a card? Isn't the overall appeal one of the considerations graders use when evaluating a card and assigning a grade? Even a card with a perfect front and grossly damaged reverse would fail to exude a high degree of "overall appeal" for some collectors.

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04-29-2002, 10:06 AM

Posted By: MWI'm also assuming that small surface creases do not apply to this group of T206s. But even then, there are some collectors who would claim that any crease is a major detraction.

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04-29-2002, 10:42 AM

Posted By: BcDare slightly paper layer split due to curling from being put in plastic holders improperly. Also,the contrast is turned way up making the "appearance' more presentable big Bri.......but the fact remains.....if they were ex/mt , they would be submitted......James?Jay/Jim/Jimbob?BobJ et... explains he understands the value of submitted cards by default in his commentary on the nice Matty with the paper loss! He certainly would have sent it in if not for the paper loss.....same applies to the corners on the others and the 99.9/ .01 centering on the " mint" cards! GO REDSOX***

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04-29-2002, 04:25 PM

Posted By: Julie VognarI do have some nifty ones, and three or 4 photos of each. As a fellow Blacksozx collector, may I ask if you're trying to get everything, or just a nice, representative group of cards and photos? dO YOU HAVE aTTELL'S T218? Gorgeous card. Also have great Conlon photos of Gleason and Landis. For some reason, I haven't been too particular about card condition. I think that started when I got the Zeenut McMullin (F-GD)

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04-29-2002, 04:28 PM

Posted By: Julie Vognar...

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04-29-2002, 04:33 PM

Posted By: runscottI bought 75 of his rookie cards during the off-season.

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04-30-2002, 12:08 AM

Posted By: Lee BehrensGee Scott you're buying vintage Pedro cards? Where has your collecting gone? As for James V., i have have had good dealings with him but always felt he overgraded, which doesn't bother me because of the scans available, but his knocking of other peoples listing when he is doing the same disturbs me, it almost seems like an attempt to make himself sound better. I think the people on this board are too intellegent to see thru the posts ( and that includes MW <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> ). James I think the biggest problem brought up here is the fact you knock other people for doing the same thing your doing. I think the best way to list cards is have a scan, give a description, less hassles. By the way I have signed my purchase agreement on a house. This has caused a shrinkage in my collection <img src="/images/sad.gif" height=14 width=14> . Can't wait to move in. And no Jay is not going to live with me. I had enough of growing up with him.

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04-30-2002, 12:14 AM

Posted By: jay behrensLies, I tell you. He said I could build a tree house in the backyard and live there. Jay

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04-30-2002, 06:34 AM

Posted By: runscottThe Pedro lot was in the middle of a bunch of nice Scott Gaynor stuff I was bidding on. My trigger finger was hot and I couldn't hold back.

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04-30-2002, 08:20 AM

Posted By: johndont lie scott,you collect his cards and have them graded! ill make u deal tho,ill root for pedro if you root for omar vizquel. i only have about 3200 of his rookies

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04-30-2002, 10:17 AM

Posted By: warshawlawSorry, saw Blazing Saddles again over the weekend. MW is correct--overgrading and problem cards abound in the pre-1950 ungraded section. Whenever I see a card described as ex-mt, especially from an experienced seller, in this section and it is not encapsulated I think one of two things: overgrade or doctored card. I am surprised that someone who wants "street cred" on this board would put up stuff like this. To generalize from the specifics, despite my criticisms of the grading industry I do agree that on mainstream cards an SGC holder nearly always prevents extreme condition blows like the ones Jverri is trying to perpetrate. If the card is graded, both buyer and seller can choose to rely on the service for the opinion.

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04-30-2002, 01:50 PM

Posted By: Lee BehrensI have 50 Bip roberts Rookies, Hot card, Will sell at resonable price. Lee

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05-01-2002, 02:45 PM

Posted By: ChrisI have been trying to get that card for 10 yrs! E-mail me if you are interested.

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05-01-2002, 06:00 PM

Posted By: Julie Vognarwhich means never. Sooooo-ry!

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05-01-2002, 06:05 PM

Posted By: runscottI bought the '91 UD supplemental set and the Pedro was perfect - I sent it to PSA and got a 10. Still have it. Don't know about having the new acquisition graded - Pedro's off to a great recovery since opening day, but I need some Cy Young numbers! If he's doing good at the all-star break, I'll send in all 75 to SGC.