Interesting Story Concerning Card Trimming and Grading [Archive]

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04-08-2002, 07:11 PM

Posted By: Eric  Thought that i'd pass along this story to members of the forum. I spoke with an old time collector this weekend. And when I say old time, I mean....old time (he's in his early 80's)!! He's been collecting baseball cards since the mid 1930's and has a lot of stuff. Stuff you rarely see. He showed me a complete set of T208 Cullivan Fireside cards. When is the last time you've seen this set? Anyways, he told me that he had purchased packs of 1939 Playball cards back in 1939 when they were originally issued. The cards were put away and, of course, he had duplicates. A couple of years ago, he took one these cards (a duplicate card of Joe DiMaggio) to SGC to be graded. And guess what?.....they said it was trimmed!! He was infuriated by this and I don't blame him. He took the card to another reputable grading company who graded it - no questions asked. I have known this guy for a number of years and this isn't a story he would make up and he had no reason to trim any card. Hell, he's got everything in his collection. Anways, as we've long suspected....the grading companies are not very good in detecting trimmed cards. Anyone have a similar story? P.S. Scott, have you got some cheese to go with my bottle of Kendall Jackson? Gotta have cheese with my whine when I'm sniping <chuckle>!!

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04-08-2002, 08:07 PM

Posted By: jay behrensWhen I got out of the hobby over 10 years ago there were no known complete sets of Firesides. If this is true, then that, in and of itself is impressive. Just curious, is guy on the East Coast or West Coast? Jay

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04-08-2002, 08:23 PM

Posted By: EricJay, This guy is on the east coast and from what he showed me, it was an 18 card set. I don't collect baseball cards anymore (just boxing and non-sports cards) so I don't know if this is complete. I assumed his set was complete at 18 cards.

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04-08-2002, 08:26 PM

Posted By: runscottBut tonight I did open a bottle of Pommard I picked up in Burgundy a few years ago. Sadly, it wasn't even as good as the cheap Australian stuff I've been drinking. "I will drink no wine before removing the cork"

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04-08-2002, 08:31 PM

Posted By: jay behrensYep, the set is complete at 18 cards. Impressive. I know more than a few serious collectors that would love to get their hands on it. Jay

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04-08-2002, 11:03 PM

Posted By: Brian HodesThe tale of woe of the collector who brings in a card he knows is legit to a grading service and is (wrongly) told that the card is altered is not a new one to this board... I think there is an earlier thread that addresses this issue precisely. In any event I think we all must agree that the grading companies (if they are acting responsibly) must err on the side of caution when dealing with questionable cards. That said it still sucks when the card being refused is yours.

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04-09-2002, 08:17 PM

Posted By: MWBased on your account, I find the story a bit hard to believe. Could it be that something was lost in the translation? I've known a few hobbyists to exaggerate a bit when weaving tales of hobby folklore.

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04-10-2002, 12:10 AM

Posted By: MWBob -- No offense, but Eric's story reads like a billboard. Just enough nostalgia to pull at our heartstrings, just enough sketchy details to make us all believers. If it's reasonable to you at face value, then that's fine. I've got further questions. Call me cynical. Best regards, Michael

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04-10-2002, 01:22 AM

Posted By: BcD The guy is now 104 years old!

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04-10-2002, 02:28 AM

Posted By: vorthian<< The Cobb and McGraw are reputedly the only existing copies with the rare overprinted factory backs). >> Re: McGraw. Portrait or glove at side pose?

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04-10-2002, 09:19 AM

Posted By: TBobMichael- no problem, we can agree to disagree. I think I am probably as cynical as you but I was just pointing out that there COULD be a shred of truth here. Brian- I am sure the guy is dead now. Haven't seen him since we bought the "find." Interestingly, if you check out the Mastro catalogues you will see that every once in a blue moon a T213 will surface and usually it says from a find in the early 80's. That was us! Steve- portrait.

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04-10-2002, 10:51 AM

Posted By: TBobI find the story wholly credible. I submitted a T206 Chance once to SGC and it was returned ungraded with an explanation that it had an altered, non-genuine finish. HUH??? It was sent in to PSA and came back a PSA7. This card was from a find in Louisiana of T205s and T213s in the early 80's. (Bill Mastro ended up with all the T213s except 3 rare T213-3 overprinted factory backs, the McGraw which I still have, a common which sold on ebay and a Cobb which was given in a trade which involved a Bresnahan Nadja and E94 Wagner and cash. The Cobb and McGraw are reputedly the only existing copies with the rare overprinted factory backs). Anyway, the point is all the T205s which were submitted came back with high grades. The Chance had ye olde "altered not genuine finish". EVERY ONE OF THESE CARDS CAME FROM A THEN 90 YEAR OLD GENTLEMAN WHO COLLECTED THEM RIGHT FROM THE PACK AND HAD THEM STORED IN A BOX IN LOUISIANA. We met this man when we made the deal and had to convince him that the cards were worth more than he wanted for them, he had no clue. We got a nice but not mercenary deal, he was happy too. The point of this long rambling story is that what I have written is true so why couldn't this old gent's story be true also?

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04-10-2002, 10:53 AM

Posted By: TBob...before you ask, no the Chance was not submitted for grading in the early 80's. Duh. I know when SGC began. The card was submitted around a year ago.

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04-10-2002, 11:49 AM

Posted By: MWBob -- Originally you wrote that you find the story "wholly credible." Now you are saying "there COULD be a shred of truth here." Aren't you saying two different things?

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04-10-2002, 05:20 PM

Posted By: EricMike, I can understand your skepticism. However, I saw this guys T208 set with my own eyes and i've known him for a long time. He is quite reputable and I have no doubt that his experience with SGC actually happened. Sorry I don't have scans of his T208 set to show you. In addition to the story about this gentlemen's incident with SGC, I wanted to relay the fact that there are some hobbyists out there who assembled nice baseball card collections in the years prior to 1980. These guys have a lot of stuff and collected at a time when card prices where considerably cheaper, when there were fewer collectors, and when supplies of many issues were more plentiful. Whether you consider my story fact or fiction is up to you! I'm not offended either way.

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04-10-2002, 05:43 PM

Posted By: MWEric -- The T208 Set might very well exist. I'm OK with that part of the story. I don't see how it relates to the 1939 DiMaggio, but that's OK, there's a lot of stuff I don't understand. With respect to the 1939 Play Balls coming straight from packs, I'm a bit skeptical. Can you guess how many times I've heard that? Couldn't this gentleman just as easily have picked one up from a buddy who trimmed them to fit the size of his wooden box he kept them in? And what if a group of 1939 Play Balls had been cut short at the factory? Perhaps he even had some of the factory overprints which are known to vary considerably in size and have some unusual cuts. I recall a collection we purchased about 15 years ago, where an older gentleman did just that. He constructed a box that fit all of his 1953 Bowmans -- he owned quite a few. Unfortunately, he cut down his 1952 Topps high numbers so that they also fit into the same box. Among the cards he trimmed were NM/MT+ condition copies of Robinson, Mathews, and Mantle. He had no idea they were smaller than regulation size. Did he remember trimming them? Nope. His impression was that they came out of the packs like that. Best regards, Michael