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04-02-2002, 05:40 PM
Posted By: <b>darthshoeless&nbsp; </b><p>Maybe I am missing something, but under runscotts post "this is why I snipe" posted earlier today, a refrence by Julie is made. " He was black-take my word for it." Am I missing a hidden meaning here? I don't want to accuse anyone of anything without having that person explain themselves. Julie, please respond. Thanks.

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04-02-2002, 05:54 PM
Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>I think he was white as Casper....who the heck cares?..So am I.........if someone makes a comment can't they just go about their day? It's just not that big of a deal...now if you want to talk about affirmative action and the way I feel about it my email is always attached.....otherwise, just let it go...I hate it when people make a stink about nothing......ya know in the little East Texas town where I was this weekend you could say what Julie said and no one would care...because everyone, blacks and whites, get along...this is a vintage card board....let's get back to it......best regards

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04-02-2002, 06:06 PM
Posted By: <b>petecld</b><p>People are entitled to their opinions without concern to who agrees and disagrees. Besides, if you read the post the comment was made about the person after Julie did a bid history search. It is quite possible that the person bid on items that would give the impression they were black. <BR><BR>Ebay DOES sell more then just Baseball cards ya know.

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04-02-2002, 07:25 PM
Posted By: <b>Plastic Dog</b><p>Money is not an irrelevant issue, but race should be. If someone posts something potentially racist or objectionable, I think the rest of us would be irresponsible to simply "let it slide." I don't necessarily mean that I think Julie is wrong in her observation about the individual's race. But what I do mean is: what the hell does race have to do with anything at all in this discussion and why on earth would she bring it up? (Because I guarantee that I earn less than the bidder in question, and I am not an African-American.)

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04-02-2002, 07:28 PM
Posted By: <b>Plastic Dog</b><p>it doesn't surprise me that noone in a small Texas town would have taken note of the comment (assuming that they understood the comment in the first place). The state is not exactly a hotbet of civil rights or the poster-child for diversity.

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04-02-2002, 07:44 PM
Posted By: <b>Elliot</b><p>I wrestled with editing Julie's original post, as I thought that her comment was extraneous to the point of her story. I left it up, in the hope that nobody else would notice, and the whole thing would slide. I am leaving it up, now, for a couple more days to give Julie time to respond (if she wishes) to some of the questions that have been asked.<BR>Personally I find the comment offensive, but more importantly as moderator of the board, I don't think the board should be a place for discrimanatory comments (unless they are about bald white texans who like to sniff cards <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> ) and I don't want the board to be seen as a place where these types of comments are tolerated.<BR>I also don't believe that Julie meant anything by the comment and still like her and her posts. I also think that this is a board to discuss vintage baseball cards and I share the wish of others to get over this issue and move on to discuss the hobby we love.

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04-02-2002, 08:26 PM
Posted By: <b>Ryan Christoff</b><p>I am amazed and disappointed that people are suggesting that the comment is no big deal. In my opinion, it seemed like a blatantly racist comment that was said so matter-of-factly that it really made me wonder. That is why I asked for an explanation. When I read people's responses about how it was "nothing" I was truly shocked.<BR><BR>Someone should not be able to make a comment like that and "go about their day". I realize that it does not have to do with vintage cards, but that just happens to be where it was publicly posted. <BR><BR>I would still like to hear an explanation, not that I am owed one. But if anyone would like to respond please e-mail me. I will give you my phone number if you would prefer to call.<BR><BR>-Ryan

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04-02-2002, 08:47 PM
Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>off line. The board has had enough....and I smell Democrats....let's take it off line.....thanks and as always ..best regards<BR>ps....wk # 972-774-7032 8-5 CST

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04-02-2002, 09:09 PM
Posted By: <b>Jeff</b><p>lol. democrats or no, the comment isn't even racist unless we start making assumptions about what julie meant. many of us live and/or work in situations that condition us to avoid all use of racial/ethnic markers, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. and unless those markers are used to make generalizations, it ain't racism. <BR><BR>

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04-02-2002, 09:14 PM
Posted By: <b>Tbob</b><p>Living here in Arkansas and having to put up with all the Nolan Richardson (basketball coach) crap the last few weeks (now HBO is doing a special sports segment on it) I PROMISE you the last thing I want to see discussed here is a forum on racism. We are all worn out down here. This comes from a Democrat and former law student and friend of the former Prez- doubly damned now I guess <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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04-02-2002, 09:54 PM
Posted By: <b>petecld</b><p>C'mon, lighten up a little. Take the PC caps off and let your brains breath a little. I personally didn't find anything racist about the remark and even if i did this isn't the place to address it. I feel that comes across if you read the post and it's context. if I had a problem with what she said I would have contacted Julie directly. If she buys a card from me you're d*** right I will still cash the check. He/she who is without sin may cast the first stone. her comment has more inappropriate than racist.<BR><BR>As much as I enjoy the "friendships" of this board and the many other collectors I "socialize" with via e-mail and I have come to know a couple of people quite well, the truth is that for the most part what we have in common with each other is collecting. Whomever I buy/sell cards to/from is entitled to their beliefs. No one is perfect and I look forward to the end of this bleeding heart, liberal, politically correct era we live in. <BR><BR>tbob. . .you're of friend of Slick-Willy?<BR><BR>Now THAT is offensive!!! Just kidding. I won't worry too much about offending Bill - I think I can afford the pardon. <img src="/images/wink.gif" height=14 width=14>

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04-03-2002, 05:46 AM
Posted By: <b>Jaime Leiderman</b><p>Elliot<BR><BR>Julie has already responded...<BR>Time to move on!<BR><BR>--------------------*------------------------------<BR><BR>I'm not black, but a "poor" Jewish 19th century collector...<BR><BR>Feel free to offend me, but first, lets discuss cards!

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04-03-2002, 06:42 AM
Posted By: <b>Marc S.</b><p>Assuming someone's ethnicity based on their bidding patterns indeed can be an incorrect assumption.<BR><BR>However, noting someone is of a particular race means nothing at all. That Julie said the bidder was black was based on her review of the person's bidding patterns. However, she made no comment as to the bidder's (potentially) being black actually meant anything.<BR><BR>People in this country seem to be so afraid of race, in many ways, and this is a perfect example. We decided to burn Julie at the stake, simply because she noted her (potentially incorrect) assumptions about the ethnicity of another bidder. She did not say her actions or behaviour were affected at all by her conclusion. <BR><BR>In this society, we have to make assumptions about race every day. In fact, the stringent laws surrounding Affirmative Action, the American Disabilities Act, and Equal Opportunity laws, in general, have forced myself and employers at large to become more acutely aware of race, age, gender, etc. No longer is it even reasonable to simply select the most qualified candidates for positions. Every interview opportunity must be accompanied with a race/gender matrix of those who applied, those who were given an offer, those who accepted, etc. It is these very laws that have forced many of us to make more of an effort to discern race and age in people -- with the irony being that the goal is to disregard that which we are forced to acutely record.<BR><BR>

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04-03-2002, 08:00 AM
Posted By: <b>HalleyGator</b><p><BR>The only point Julie was trying to make (although admittedly it didn't come out very well) is that she let the person buy the Larry Doby card because she thought the person was black and probably really wanted a card of the first black to play in the American League. <BR><BR>This was a nice gesture on her part, and I am sorry that she is catching flack for it ... but I agree 100% that the way she phrased her comment sounded out-of-line and that it should not just be ignored.

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04-03-2002, 08:01 AM
Posted By: <b>John Wojak</b><p>Hey, let's all lighten up a bit. Obviously Julie was trying to say that she passed on the card because, based on the high bidder's past bidding history, he seemed to have maybe stronger reasons for wanting the card than Julie did, and so she wanted him to win it. So what is wrong with that? She obviously meant nothing more than that. So let's leave it be and get back to vintage cards.

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04-03-2002, 09:08 AM
Posted By: <b>John</b><p>it shouldnt have just been overlooked,if no one said anything it might have made it look like something that was acceptable to the board and might have turned off some people to this board.It doesnt matter what she meant by it to some people ,its that she said it wrong.There was no reason to mention it and its one of those cases where you should think before you speak(or in this case type).From reading Julie's posts in the past i really think she meant nothing bad by it,she seems like a very nice person but that still doesnt make it right.Im glad someone spoke up about it to show it wont be tolerated and hope now that its settled we can get past it.

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04-03-2002, 11:24 AM
Posted By: <b>mike mullins</b><p>I found Julie's comment offensive as well, but she certainly seems like a nice person, regardless of what she might/might not have meant. I am glad that people have pointed it out though; I was surprised when I saw it. <BR><BR>mike

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04-03-2002, 03:53 PM
Posted By: <b>Julie Vognar</b><p>A poor jewish 19th century collector.<BR><BR>Why is it a Sin to mention someone's race, or your perception of someone's race?<BR><BR>Actually, it WAS important to me. White guys can fight for their own Dobys, as far as I'm concerned.<BR><BR>But if a black (presumably) guy needs a little help, and I have been hindering him,and see a way to help instead--(which will probably never happen again in my life), I'll do it.<BR>

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04-03-2002, 05:04 PM
Posted By: <b>Julie Vognar</b><p>I really, REALLY want to know what I said that was wrong. <img src="/images/sad.gif" height=14 width=14>

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04-03-2002, 08:04 PM
Posted By: <b>W.M.</b><p>Hey Folks<BR><BR>Can we all just put down the "race Cards" and get back to baseball cards. Afte reading posts from Vognar for at least a year now she probably just phrased something wrong and now some people want to run with it and continue to blow this way out of context. GET OVER IT.