Help on E103s

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Posted By: <b>James/jverri01</b><p>Hi everybody. I'd like to start a discussion thread about 1910 Williams Caramel cards (E103s). I absolutely love these cards. Probably as much as my T206 HOFer rare back collection, at this point. My questions are very general. These cards are so amazingly scarce, yet, the value of these cards seems insanely low. How realistic is the pricing on these? First - it is near impossible to get these in VG or better condition ("real" vg, by the way - not the "retailer" version of vg, which I really call "Fair"). The SCBBC lists commons at being worth about $50. if vg. Huh? $50.? Talk about way off. It also lists the Wagner in the set (there are 30 cards in all) as worth $750. if vg. Ummm. Nope. A crappy looking (and I do mean UGLY) PSA 1 of this card just sold on Ebay a couple of weeks ago (at the WEAKEST point in the market, when sales were WAY down) for almost $900. A 1. AN UGLY 1. Now, I know demand is what establishes value, but...these cards are in VERY high demand. Why does the pricing on them lag so far behind? Recently, I acquired a Wagner from this set that is VG+ - TRUE VG+, probably a 4 by PSA standards. Am I to believe the card is worth about $750.? Big joke. I know 10 people right now that would give me closer to $3k for the card. It's absolutely gorgeous. Anyway, I have all but 10 of the cards from the set, and as I strive closer to my goal of completing it, I wonder what the hold-up on these beautiful cards is. My take on value is simple: if it's a common, I say that, graded, they're worth about $50. per grade assigned. So, a 3 is worth $150. For HOFers, Lajoie and Wagner excluded, I say $125. per grade assigned. For Lajoie, $150. And, for Wagner - tough to say, but, I am thinking $750. per grade, up to a 4, and $1k per grade, thereafter. Sound unrealistic? What do you think? I KNOW what I paid for these cards, and it is NOWHERE close to what "book" is supposed to be. Thoughts???

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Posted By: <b>runscott</b><p>and Cobbs sell a little lower. Personally, I wish the opposite were true since I have several Cobbs and only one Wagner - an e95 that I paid over twice book for (okay, laugh at me again)

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Posted By: <b>jverri01</b><p>Scott - not laughing at all. It's only a "twice than book" investment at this point. Fifty years from now, you'll be right at book. ; )<BR><BR>Plus - the Wagner you have - is a beauty. I think its undergraded. Maybe resubmit for review and you'll get it back at a higher assignment. Then, maybe, thirty years from now you're at book.<BR><BR>You always crack me up, Scott. Thanks - I need it. ; 0

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Posted By: <b>Bruce MacPherson</b><p>Scott,<BR>If the E95 wagner you are referring to is the one that was recently on teletrade, I had a high bid of slightly over $400 on it and was willing to go higher. However, to my misfortune, when you have the high bid in a teletrade auction you can't increase it and I was'nt near a computer when the auction ended. I think you got a good deal regardless of the grade.

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Posted By: <b>Jeff</b><p>I'm new to the board, but thought I'd chime in on this one. E103s are, like E94s and E97s (and some E98s, and E92s that aren't dockmans) way underpriced in the SCD book. Especially when you start doing their math for lower grade cards (1/2 of vg for good, 1/2 of that for fair, 1/2 of that for poor). I primarily collect lower grade cards, and I've picked up a couple of HOFers from the E103 set for a little over $100, but in very low grade, where similar cards from E93 or E95 can be had for $25. Hence, a factor of 4x or 5x, when book seems to set the factor at 2x. <BR><BR>I agree with Scott on the Wagner / Cobb issue. Seems to me that most collectors put Wagner on a par with Cobb in value, yet the SCD book regularly prices the Cobb at double or more than the Wagner. I've got a few dozen Cobbs (including the E103), but only a few Wagners, and generally am willing to pay the same amounts. For instance, low-grade E93 Cobbs (I use them as a marker because there are enough to make generalizations) can be had for $150 or $200, whereas it's tough to get a Wagner fully intact for under $300. E95 Cobbs are doable for $200, rare to see a Wagner under $300. <BR><BR>And back on topic, I got my low-grade E103 Cobb for $500, and if anybody's got a Wagner for that, my bet is I'm not first in line to buy it.<BR><BR>Jeff<BR><BR>