D303 Mothers' Bread . . . whatzit parallel [Archive]

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11-01-2001, 09:56 AM

Posted By: Bob LemkeIt is obvious that the Mothers’ Bread cards which originated in New Orelans in the mid-1910s are a parallel or partial parallel of another issue, but which one? Listed in the American Card Catalog as D303, the set shares the basic 1-1/2” x 2-3/4” format and front design with several contemporary issues. We listed the set for the first time in the 2002 edition Standard Catalog, and checklisted it as paralleling the General Baking Co. (parent of Mothers’) set of 1914, with which it shares the D303 designation. The checklist for both sets is presented as basically the same as the 1915 American Caramel issue, E106, with a few variations added to the bakery issues. New evidence reported by Andy Baran, however, calls for rethinking these presumptions. Baran reports the existence in the collection of a California hobbyist of a Mothers’ Bread card of Happy Felsch (the pose is actually that of Ray Demmitt from E106). Since Black Sox Felsch does not appear in E106, and did not debut in the major leagues until 1915, Baran surmises that Mothers’ Bread, and by extension, General Baking’s D303 are not a parallel of E106 and are a 1916, rather than a 1914 issue. Baran speculates that D303 may be a parallel of the 1916 Tango Eggs set of 20. My question for you is . . . can you verify the existence of any D303 cards which do not appear in Tango Eggs?

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11-01-2001, 12:16 PM

Posted By: MWBob -- The Mothers’ Bread Series, if issued only during one year, cannot be dated earlier than 1916 due to the inclusion of a Rube Marquard card with Brooklyn. While Andy Baran is correct that the issue is not a parallel of E106, it is also not a parallel of Tango Eggs. The surfaces are very similar, the cards were produced in the same locale, but there is no known Marquard card in the Tango Egg set. Interestingly, we listed the Marquard card as a Mothers’ Bread card on the original invoice but PSA nonetheless labeled it a D303 General Baking card – a common mistake. The D303 Series is the General Baking Series and can be distinguished by the inclusion of 51 different cards, the production date of 1914, and the advertisement for “General Baking Co.” on the reverse . The Mothers’ Bread Series, similar to Tango Eggs, has no American Card Catalog designation, was likely produced in 1916, and reads “Mothers’ Bread, The Perfect Loaf” on the reverse. As such, it is a distinct series from anything yet cataloged and is quite rare. For the Mothers’ Bread Series, I suppose that D303-2 might be a good place to start. <img src="http://www.bmwcards.com/chatboard/14marquard.jpg">

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11-01-2001, 12:46 PM

Posted By: Andy BaranIsn't it possible that there was a Tango Eggs Marquard card, but that it either has not survived, or has not been discovered? I don't think that there is any way of knowing how many cards were supposed to be in the Tango Eggs set. This is just a theory, as I know very little about the origins of the Tango Eggs cards. I think that the other characteristics between the two sets are too similar to overlook.

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11-01-2001, 01:15 PM

Posted By: MWAndy -- By mere virtue of the fact that a Mothers' Bread (let's call it D303-2) Marquard exists and not a Tango Eggs Marquard, it is more likely than not, that the two sets do not comprise the same players. Another example is Honus Wagner. He is found in the Mothers' Bread Series but not the Tango Eggs Set. Sure, you could always claim that additional cards of both Wagner and Marquard may someday be discovered in the Tango Eggs Series, but coudn't this be argued for ANY Mothers' Bread Player? I am not saying you are wrong, but it is tough to agree with your hypothesis.

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11-01-2001, 02:25 PM

Posted By: Jaime LeidermanI've never sent any cards to PSA, so I don't have any experience with them. But how in the world can a grading company make mistakes like this one? I recall some N172's in last Lipset auction being labeled as N192's.... This is not a mistake, it's a Horror Story. Hope they don't start grading other rare 19th century cards. Would like to know what could have happened with Leon's Kalamazoo Bats card in PSA hands... A card sent with a N666 sticker? I'm tired of this grading crap. <img src="http://network54.com/Realm/tmp/1004581648.GIF"> I'll not bother you guys with this grading issue anymore...well, maybe next week! JL

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11-02-2001, 02:20 PM

Posted By: Bob LemkeI guess this leaves us back at square 1, without a checklist for the 1916 Mother's Bread version of D303. Can anyone get the ball rolling? We have Marquard, Felsch and Wagner (pose?). I doubt that we will ever see any "new" players in Tango Eggs, prior to the discovery of the hoard and since I don't believe a single Tango has ever turned up.

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11-03-2001, 05:00 PM

Posted By: Brett DomueJoe Tinker, Portrait

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11-03-2001, 05:26 PM

Posted By: fkw707I had a Larry Doyle card with the Mothers Bread back, it isnt in the Tango set. Frank