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10-26-2001, 10:14 AM

Posted By: Tim SedlockI received back - 60 days after having submitted them -a group of cards from PSA. This was my first submission and like many people am a little both delighted and disappointed...but hey thats life! One card, 1916 Standard Biscuit Ty Cobb, was not graded due to being miscut. Does anyone know if this could have been at the factory or did this issue come in strips??? It measures 3-1/4" x 2". Would I have any better luck submitting this same card to SGC or should I say the hell with it and just enjoy the card? A T206 Walter Johnson "Hands at Chest" (Ex/Mt) was not graded due to an Evid Trim. What the heck does evid mean? I measured the card and it is exactly the L/W as stated in the Standard Catalog for Baseball Cards so I am a little confused here. Another card, T206 Christy Mathewson "Dark Cap" - now a PSA 5 - I could have swore it would come back with evidence of trimming as it is a little short, but it graded! Although, I am not an expert - even experts make mistakes - I have noticed some inconsistencies in the grading, but will not let this deter me from sending in cards for grading in the future. I think a main reason I sent the cards in was to find which sellers are honest and which may NOT be. Thanks for listening! Tim

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10-26-2001, 11:48 AM

Posted By: Lee BehrensIt sounds to me that the logic you use to send to grading services, puts the grading services in the same category as your shaky dealers you worry about. Are you intending to resell these cards or keep them for a collection? To me grading services are just as suspect as your shady dealers, and this is more prove why. You have no recourse to these cards that were sent back ungraded and you know have a graded card that you feel is trimmed, where is the logic in this? Another good reason not to use grading systems!!!!!!

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10-26-2001, 12:19 PM

Posted By: Andy BaranTim, Quite often, Vintage cards are slightly larger than the measurements in the Catalogs. Within the same set, there can be cards of varying sizes. Many times these "Oversized" cards are trimmed down to the exact measurements in the Catalogs. Therefore, you can have a card that looks like it is the right size, but it has been trimmed.

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10-26-2001, 12:47 PM

Posted By: MWAndy, I agree. Size is not a very reliable measurement when assessing the authenticity or unaltered quality of vintage baseball cards.

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10-26-2001, 01:22 PM

Posted By: Tim SedlockLee, Weird logic, I know, but I was just stating my recent experience with a few thoughts. My main reason for sending these cards off to be graded is for overall peace of mind to make sure they are authentic. I realize that not all cards are gradeable by grading company standards and that alone does not make the ungradeable ones worthless. I am planning on keeping most if not all of the cards for a collection. The cards I have graded or keep that are ungraded, I will treasure them all the same. Thanks for your opinion. Tim

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10-26-2001, 02:05 PM

Posted By: leonHey Tim, I agree with you for the reason you send the cards in. I do the same thing. I like knowing a 3rd party grader has authenticated my card. Are they perfect? Far from it. Is it better than not doing it? In my mind yes. I normally only do my high dollar cards as they are the ones I have the most risk with. The other thing is that at least the top 2 companies (SGC and PSA) will stand behind their grading/authentication financially. If you do not get them graded then who will stand behind them when 3 years down the road you sell it and the new buyer goes to have it graded and you find out you made a mistake on not having it checked? I only collect as a collector but if I ever NEED to sell something would the potential buyer feel more comfortable (and potentially pay more) for a card in a PSA or SGC holder or not? (your answer here please).....best regards (and if the answer to the last question is "no" then you are wrong)

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10-27-2001, 08:36 PM

Posted By: vorthian<< The other thing is that at least the top 2 companies (SGC and PSA) will stand behind their grading/authentication financially. >> I am learning the hard way with PSA regarding this matter. I had a 1940 PB Earl Averill PSA 9 that was just horrible... submitted it under the "buy back" option at Sportsfest and was assured that I would hear from Mr. Rocchi himself. Over a month later, no call so I called them to see what was going on. It turns out the card graded a 7 and that I was entitled to a refund however I was then presented with a few options; take that amount in grading submissions, take the card back at SMR w/ the difference in grading submissions or my money back with a catch - it would be "months" because of the "insurance policy" or some utter nonsense. I'm sure Andy Baran with his counterfeit PSA 1 Sporting News Ruth wasn't told "months". So yeah, PSA backs their product - just good luck in attaining it.

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10-28-2001, 02:48 PM

Posted By: Julie VognarA few months ago, I won a bunch of photos from Robert Edwards--among them was a Fritsch.I mixed them all in with my cards--but I didn't have a Fritsch card. So I bid on a '34 Goudy on E-Bay--it happened to be a PSA 6, and looked great. As soon as it arrived, I freed it from its prison, and found--WHAT? The borders were blindingly white, the corners razor sharp. The lettering on the back looked new, except in four small places, where part of some of the letters were missing. I called Mark Macrae, and he came over and looked at it. "Julie, you don't even want to KNOW everything that's been done to this card. ":That's sort of what I figured. Give me a few bucks for it?" "I think of this card more as a conversation piece than a card." "Oh." "It's been bleached, the lettering removed and replaced, the borders trimmed to make the corners sharp, and--God knows what else. What did the scan look like?" "Well, real nice--but he must have put a filter over the card, so it wouldn't look so blindingly white in the borders." Anyone want a conversation piece, for $286 dollars? Julie

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10-28-2001, 04:11 PM

Posted By: Andy BaranI'm sorry to hear about your situation with PSA. I was equally frustrated with them, until I spoke to Steve Rocchi directly. Once the ball got rolling, I had my check in a matter of weeks. Good Luck.

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10-28-2001, 04:16 PM

Posted By: leonLet's see ...I have a PSA 9 in horrible shape....hmmm...why do I have a PSA 9 in horrible shape? I either bought it that way or got it from a trade OR sale or sent it in. hmmm...but I don't like grading companies......but I seem to have this GRADED MINT card that does not look good...hmmm......but I don't like grading companies...wonder how I got this GRADED card......I would rather buy something where if there is a problem there is NO company to stand behind it...(and yes, most honest individuals stand behind stuff too).....might take months to get my money back because of insurance.....hmmm.....it's NEVER taken me months with insurance companies before....right?? Be glad you can get SOMETHING. best regards.....and oh yeah.....what comes around goes around....sort of a motto I have learned to live by.....best regards all.....

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10-28-2001, 05:57 PM

Posted By: Elliotso we can see the handiwork that was done to the card, if possible.

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10-29-2001, 10:53 AM

Posted By: Todd (nolemmings)OK, so maybe the card looked different on the scan than in person. But as I understand it, it looked nice in the scan, then you looked at it in the holder when it arrived- then you removed it from the holder. Why? How did the holder obscure the whiteness or the corners, or the other problems you described? I guess my thought is, if you saw these problems upon receiving the card, why not seek a refund from seller, if available, and if not, why not complain to PSA? As it is, how do you now convince PSA that they blew it on this card? Now for the ethical question. Suppose you left it in the holder, but were at least suspicious that it had been altered. How should you sell it-- as a PSA 6 with no further comments, or with your doubts/suspicions expressed?

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10-29-2001, 12:20 PM

Posted By: Vognar JulieThe few cards I buy that happen to be in holders don't stay that way long--so I had never thought of returning an encapsulated card for re-evaluation. I may have thought "that looks kind of funny." I had recently bought a '33 Goudy Berg PSA 6 from Levi Bleem, and had asked him as soon as I received his xerox "do those corners come to a point AT ALL? And he said, "No. No, they don't. Well, maybe a little bit. That's the way the card came back, marked PSA 6." So I had even more reason to be shocked by the razor-sharp corners on the '34 Goudy. I don't know how to scan a card into a website--but I'll try to find out. Julie

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10-29-2001, 01:11 PM

Posted By: ElliotOn this website inserting images is easy as follows: All URLs for images (jpeg or gif), audio, and video will insert the item inline. Example <img src="http://myserver.com/myimage.gif">

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10-29-2001, 01:16 PM

Posted By: Elliotbut click on the blue Huh? near the bottom of the response page, after Enable formatted text is checked, and it will be explained.

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10-30-2001, 11:33 PM

Posted By: vorthian<< and your point is??>> -- So yeah, PSA backs their product - just good luck in attaining it. -- Guess the aforementioned was too hard to comprehend in my initial retort. Still salty over a few snipes eh? Tsk tsk tsk.

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10-31-2001, 08:05 AM

Posted By: leonthat's it..I can't comprehend.........a little common courtesy goes a long ways, ya know?....obviously YOU don't get it.....I have been emailed many, many times by board members about cards they want that I am bidding on. We have ALWAYS worked it out. Guess you could give a shi* ..............figures....best regards