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09-17-2001, 12:48 PM
Posted By: <b>Kevin Cummings</b><p>I sure hope Jay Miller is reading this one......<BR><BR>Is there a "foolproof" way to determine whether an Old Judge card has been rebacked? I have seen some (like the ones Mike Wheat has) which are obvious and the seller makes no effort to treat them as originals. But I am sure that there are other individuals with fewer scruples who might try (with a more masterful job) to pass off a rebacked version as the real thing. How would one know?<BR><BR>Related to the above, what do you think is a fair price for a rebacked card? I'm not sure that anyone would go to the effort of rebacking a common, but let's take a Hall of Famer like Pud Galvin. If his regular card had an SCD book value of $1200 in NM shape, what is a reasonable price for the same card in a version that is rebacked?

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09-17-2001, 02:39 PM
Posted By: <b>David Rudd</b><p>Hello, your best bet to ideintify rebacked cards is direct comparison to know genuine examples. The experienced collector's eye is hard to fool. The use of black light will also weed out many fake stocks. And, if you can afford it, the use of an infrared viewer.

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09-17-2001, 03:08 PM
Posted By: <b>David Rudd</b><p>Also, compare the opacities of of the questioned and known genuine cards. This means, hold the cards up side by side to a desk lamp, flashlight or other light source, and compare how much light passes through the stocks. Usually, there will be ovious differences between the fake and original stocks.

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09-17-2001, 03:22 PM
Posted By: <b>Tom Boblitt</b><p>Don't know if I can actually tell you how but it depends on the type of material used for rebacking. If it is some other material than an original old judge back, it will often look different and may be stiffer or less or more thick. I've bought a couple of Old Judges from Mike that were rebacked and they were in the VGEX or better range and they were about $60 each. That was, of course, about 2 years ago when things were a LOT cheaper. 19th century stuff has boomed since then so I'd expect to pay about 50-60% of what a similar card was priced. So, like for an EX condition common, current prices are about 200-250 bucks anymore. I'd say $100-$125 would be a going price. If it was a botched rebacking, I'd be nervous about it. I have about 30 nice Old Judges I soaked out of an album that need to be rebacked. Kid Nichols and some others that are pretty tough ones. I've rebacked 4-5 of them using a Newsboy Cabinet (actress) stock and they didn't look too bad but it's difficult to cut the cardboard and you can DEFINITELY tell they've been rebacked. It would be hard to sell them to someone knowledgeable as not rebacked. I think you can also look at the edges and see if you see where they might have been cut. If they have been trimmed, you may see where the photo paper has 'grabbed' onto the sides and kind of overlapped the sides. The couple I'd picked up from Mike Wheat were significantly thicker than the normal card. I have an Anson rebacked that I bought for $1000 but it's as close to NRMT otherwise as you could get. Nice photo clarity, etc. I'd have had to paid $4000 or $5000 for a similar non-rebacked card. All what you're satisfied with, I guess. I have so many VG and VG- cards in my Old Judges that I don't have the ability to discriminate that much on something. I've seen Olbermann pay big bucks for rebacked cards and he bought some from me that were just the photo and severly chewed up and paid like $30 or more each for them. So.....again.....if you're happy with the purchase, whatever you pay is relative........

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09-17-2001, 04:55 PM
Posted By: <b>john</b><p>Mike Wheat has rebacked ones,for sale on his site with condition listed,so you should be able to compare what he asks for cards of similar condition oiginal and rebacked....but Toms right,its really up to you,if the cards worth a certain amount to you,thats what you should pay...as far as telling the difference,i have some rebacked cards,that were pretty easy to tell from original,a different type of paper was used and side by side with a real one,you can tell the difference,in fact for me i have the exact same player/pose skinned(1),rebacked(1),and original(2) so i can see the same card in 3 different stages for comparison,that really helps....John

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09-17-2001, 06:56 PM
Posted By: <b>Julie Vognar</b><p>A near mint N172 Pud Galvin for $1200? I'll take two or three!

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09-17-2001, 07:01 PM
Posted By: <b>HalleyGator</b><p>I paid more than that for an N172 Pud Galvin card that is FAR from being a PSA 7 ... so whoever is setting those prices has no idea of what the market is bearing.

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09-17-2001, 07:07 PM
Posted By: <b>Kevin Cummings</b><p>The price I used was just for comparison purposes to get a sense of relativity. Oh, how I wish I could get a NM Hall of Famer for that! I'd buy a few! <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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09-18-2001, 09:59 AM
Posted By: <b>Jay Miller</b><p>Here is what I look for:<BR><BR>1-Is the cardboard right? Look at genuine Old Judge cards, both sides and back, and get a feel for what the cardboard should look like.<BR><BR>2-Is there wear/damage on the front that is not consistent with the back?<BR><BR>3-Does the picture not exactly fit the backing?<BR><BR>