Vintage Undervalued Roookies

[ronniehatesjazz]

Are there any left at this point? I always thought Mays 51 Bowman was undervalued but just checked eBay and my god!! I can only come up with the list below and would love to see if you guys can add to the list or disagree with my picks.

1948(49?) Leaf Stan Musial
1949 Bowman Roy Campanella (I think almost all of his cards are undervalued)
1955 Topps Sandy Koufax (Very surprised his mid grade cards aren't higher)
1957 Topps Frank Robinson (Will it always be cheap?)
1965 Topps Joe Morgan
1968 Topps Johnny Bench

I have most of these cards and I'm a Reds fan, so I may be biased. What are your guys thoughts about others out there?

[jb67]

Bench is certainly a good buy at todays prices. I can only see his rookie card going up in the future. As Leon in known to say "every thread needs a card".

https://www.collectorfocus.com/images/show/JBrules/rookies-large/54868/1968-johnny-bench-psa-8.5-he

[dio]

1960 topps Carl Yastrzemski in psa/sgc/bvg 8, criminally undervalue

[rats60]

Musial, Bench and Schmidt would be my top 3. Brooks Robinson, Bob Gibson, Juan Marichal and Steve Carlton are also pretty cheap.

[Peter_Spaeth]

We've been saying these same cards are undervalued ever since I can remember. There's probably a reason. That said, my vote would be for Seaver. High number, very tough card to find without one thing or another wrong, vastly underrated pitcher, arguably top 5 of all time.

[Wanaselja]

Frank Robinson

[BeanTown]

Ken Griffey Jr

[Jobu]

I think the multiplayer cards like Bench and Seaver suffer a bit because there is someone else featured. I also think that all 57 Topps suffer a bit because they are less appealing (IMO) than many of the other cards from this era.

I will also add Reggie Jackson to the list, though maybe he isn't considered undervalued.

[BeanTown]

I think the multiplayer cards like Bench and Seaver suffer a bit because there is someone else featured. I also think that all 57 Topps suffer a bit because they are less appealing (IMO) than many of the other cards from this era.

I will also add Reggie Jackson to the list, though maybe he isn't considered undervalued.

57 is undervalued and it shouldn't be. First year of the standard card size and many great cards in the set.

[Wanaselja]

57 is undervalued and it shouldn't be. First year of the standard card size and many great cards in the set.

I agree. I think 57 from a design perspective is great.

[pokerplyr80]

With collectors spending $1M on certain modern cards, or even several hundred grand, they're all under valued. Bump this thread in a year and post some recent sales prices. My prediction they will all look like bargains.

If you're looking for the next card to 10x no idea. My guess would be something like a CJ or e90-1 Jackson. Mantle is just getting warmed up too. I'd be looking for a 51 if I didnt already have one.

[Vit-d]

For my money, the 1955 Topps Harmon Killebrew RC is very underrated.

A HOF RC from a beautiful set and you can probably get a PSA 6 for under $500.

[Casey2296]

Johnson, Lajoie, Collins.

[rats60]

With collectors spending $1M on certain modern cards, or even several hundred grand, they're all under valued. Bump this thread in a year and post some recent sales prices. My prediction they will all look like bargains.

If you're looking for the next card to 10x no idea. My guess would be something like a CJ or e90-1 Jackson. Mantle is just getting warmed up too. I'd be looking for a 51 if I didnt already have one.

It is probably too late on Mantle. Heritage has a PSA 8. Last sale was 125k with other recent sales 110-135k. It is already at 200k before BP. Even lower graded ones have doubled or more the last month or two.

[MR RAREBACK]

spahn
clemente
carlton
greenberg

[tkd]

Any and all Hornsby cards.

[tkd]

spahn
clemente
carlton

Spahn for sure seems undervalued.

[JohnnyKilroy]

Ted Williams play ball RC still seems low to me! But definitely agree on Musial, Spahn and most of the others mentioned.

[samosa4u]

Pete Rose RC

[Johnny630]

Right Now These Guys are Smoking Hot. Aaron, Mays, Mantle and Jackie.

He had a major jump a few years back; Mine would be the......1955 Topps Roberto Clemente RC

It's a much harder card to get nice then the 54 Aaron Rookie IMO

60's I would have to say the Seaver Rookie

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

all HOF rookies from 1961 Topps

[h2oya311]

Ted Williams play ball RC still seems low to me! But definitely agree on Musial, Spahn and most of the others mentioned.

+1 on the ‘39 Teddy Ballgame. That card has been way undervalued compared to those of his peers (of which he has very few). Nothing has changed, even during this period of “crazy” cardflation (I just coined that one).

[pherbener]

I still think the 55 Clemente is undervalued. I also think the 26-29 Exhibits Foxx is "relatively" cheap. The Seaver Carlton and Schmidt rookies seem undervalued as well.

[sb1]

T204 Walter Johnson has yet to have a price breakout, probably since so few are offered. And I realize there are postcards issued prior to the Ramly set, just not of interest to all collectors.

[sdimag]

I still think the 55 Clemente is undervalued. I also think the 26-29 Exhibits Foxx is "relatively" cheap. The Seaver Carlton and Schmidt rookies seem undervalued as well.

Clemente rookie card? I bought a topps 1955 Clemente PSA 5 two years ago bv (before virus).It’s been selling for 3500 to 3900 the last few months.I checked last night and there are 2 for sale - $6,400 and $8,300! Also a 5(mc) for $3,800! Could not believe it!

[bbcard1]

With the surge in American cards, I have largely sat out of late (with the exception of a nice near 1952 Bowman set, which I admit is hardly sitting out). I have picked up four collector grade Sadaharu Oh Menko rookies (1959) in collector grade for $100 or less.

[Tyruscobb]

Spahn for sure seems undervalued.

We are in complete agreement on this issue. Although there are several players whose cards are generally undervalued, Warren Spahn and Rogers Hornsby receive my top two votes. Spahn is arguably a top 10 all-time greatest pitcher (definitely top 15), and Hornsby is arguably a top 10 all-time great player, including pitchers.

Based on pure numbers, Spahn’s rookie is criminally undervalued. He is the all-time winningest left-handed pitcher, the all-time winningest modern day pitcher, and has the sixth most wins of all time. He is just 10 wins behind absolute legends, such as Mathewson and Alexander. His records will stand forever. He was also a WWII hero. Yet, his rookie cards can be had for a song?

Hornsby is in this same category. He is listed around 10th in most serious all-time greatest baseball player rankings. Hornsby has the highest all-time career batting average for a right hander, and the second highest all-time career batting average for all players (.358 – only behind Cobb). He was a two-time triple-crown winner, and a two-time MVP. Hornsby batted over .400 three times. He is twelfth in all-time WAR.

The problem with Spahn and Hornsby is they are almost forgotten and just don’t get the exposure that their contemporary stars receive. This has kept their cards’ demand and price down. Frank Robinson falls into this same trap. Earlier in his career, Mantle, Mays, Aaron, and Clemente stole his spotlight.

[rats60]

We are in complete agreement on this issue. Although there are several players whose cards are generally undervalued, Warren Spahn and Rogers Hornsby receive my top two votes. Spahn is arguably a top 10 all-time greatest pitcher (definitely top 15), and Hornsby is arguably a top 10 all-time great player, including pitchers.

Based on pure numbers, Spahn’s rookie is criminally undervalued. He is the all-time winningest left-handed pitcher, the all-time winningest modern day pitcher, and has the sixth most wins of all time. He is just 10 wins behind absolute legends, such as Mathewson and Alexander. His records will stand forever. He was also a WWII hero. Yet, his rookie cards can be had for a song?

Hornsby is in this same category. He is listed around 10th in most serious all-time greatest baseball player rankings. Hornsby has the highest all-time career batting average for a right hander, and the second highest all-time career batting average for all players (.358 – only behind Cobb). He was a two-time triple-crown winner, and a two-time MVP. Hornsby batted over .400 three times. He is twelfth in all-time WAR.

The problem with Spahn and Hornsby is they are almost forgotten and just don’t get the exposure that their contemporary stars receive. This has kept their cards’ demand and price down. Frank Robinson falls into this same trap. Earlier in his career, Mantle, Mays, Aaron, and Clemente stole his spotlight.

Eddie Collins belongs on that list too.

[Peter_Spaeth]

With the surge in American cards, I have largely sat out of late (with the exception of a nice near 1952 Bowman set, which I admit is hardly sitting out). I have picked up four collector grade Sadaharu Oh Menko rookies (1959) in collector grade for $100 or less.

I am jealous, all I can find are the ones on ebay nearly all of which are priced high and from the same seller. :eek:

[packs]

The 51 Bowman Mantle. Might be a centerpiece card for a lot of people but the value lags so far behind the Topps that it's difficult to understand the pricing. Even when it comes to DiMaggio, whose most popular "rookie" is the 1939 Play Ball, when the 1936 Goudey does come up it always outsells it's later issued and more mainstream counterpart. Not sure why the same isn't true for the 51 Mantle, even if it's not Topps.

[ASF123]

With the surge in American cards, I have largely sat out of late (with the exception of a nice near 1952 Bowman set, which I admit is hardly sitting out). I have picked up four collector grade Sadaharu Oh Menko rookies (1959) in collector grade for $100 or less."Hmmm, that's a very interesting idea," I thought after reading this post.

Headed over to eBay and searched...

Cheapest one is now $430 + $15 shipping from Japan. It's like the whole world has become Dean's.

EDIT: Ha - Coke to Peter.

[rats60]

The 51 Bowman Mantle. Might be a centerpiece card for a lot of people but the value lags so far behind the Topps that it's difficult to understand the pricing. Even when it comes to DiMaggio, whose most popular "rookie" is the 1939 Play Ball, when the 1936 Goudey does come up it always outsells it's later issued and more mainstream counterpart. Not sure why the same isn't true for the 51 Mantle, even if it's not Topps.

There are more 51 Bowmans than 52 Topps despite the Topps being a DP. 52 Topps is Mantle's rarest regular issue card. I also think the difficulty of completing a 52 Topps set because of the high numbers is a major factor. 52 Topps is the t206 set of post war collecting. That contributes to the demand.

[Johnny630]

To me there has been a major swing from The collector base to the Investor Base of card owners.

It looks like this decade the same will repeat itself driving this hobby to further highs.

[packs]

There are more 51 Bowmans than 52 Topps despite the Topps being a DP. 52 Topps is Mantle's rarest regular issue card. I also think the difficulty of completing a 52 Topps set because of the high numbers is a major factor. 52 Topps is the t206 set of post war collecting. That contributes to the demand.

But so what? We're talking about a true rookie card of a folk hero. There's no reason for it to lag like it does. PSA 1 Bowman will run you what, somewhere around 5K? A 52 missing a border sold for 11K in a recent Heritage auction.

[rats60]

But so what? We're talking about a true rookie card of a folk hero. There's no reason for it to lag like it does. PSA 1 Bowman will run you what, somewhere around 5K? A 52 missing a border sold for 11K in a recent Heritage auction.

All you can expect is for the 51 Bowman to be worth more than other post war rookie cards. It is never going to catch the 52 Topps. Supply is more and demand is less. They are starting to move up in price. It will be interesting to see what they do in this months Heritage auction.

[packs]

All you can expect is for the 51 Bowman to be worth more than other post war rookie cards. It is never going to catch the 52 Topps. Supply is more and demand is less. They are starting to move up in price. It will be interesting to see what they do in this months Heritage auction.

Same doesn't seem to be true for the Mays though.

[Peter_Spaeth]

The 51 Bowman Mantle. Might be a centerpiece card for a lot of people but the value lags so far behind the Topps that it's difficult to understand the pricing. Even when it comes to DiMaggio, whose most popular "rookie" is the 1939 Play Ball, when the 1936 Goudey does come up it always outsells it's later issued and more mainstream counterpart. Not sure why the same isn't true for the 51 Mantle, even if it's not Topps.

We've all been conditioned to think the 311 is the most iconic card on earth. There's a self-fulfilling prophecy aspect to it.

[dio]

All you can expect is for the 51 Bowman to be worth more than other post war rookie cards. It is never going to catch the 52 Topps. Supply is more and demand is less. They are starting to move up in price. It will be interesting to see what they do in this months Heritage auction.

Yes, It will never catch the 52 topps. However, i think at the end it will get closer to 52 topps
psa 1 52 topps, clean sweep one, i would say a middle one, not too bad, not great. now is at 38k(after buyer fee) will see how it goes
psa 1 bowman cleansweep i think maybe a little above average 1 is at 9k now, take the same condition maybe 8k
so 38k vs 8k. I would think eventually might catch up to the ratio of 38k to 20-25k in the future , still the 51 bowman is his true rookie

[packs]

The 51 Bowman is also a high number in its own right.

[rats60]

Same doesn't seem to be true for the Mays though.

52 Topps Mays is not a high number and there are more 52 Topps than 51 Bowman Mays. I think the 51 Bowman Mantle is under valued compared to 52 Topps but it always has been. I have a PSA 7 Mantle RC so I am hoping it closes the gap. It is just that there are a lot of people with unlimited funds that are drawn to the 52. It is no different that someone paying 732k for a Jordan RC or 3.9 million for a Trout superfractor. These guys want a card to show off and it needs to be something a non collector would recognize. That is 52T not 51B.

[rats60]

We've all been conditioned to think the 311 is the most iconic card on earth. There's a self-fulfilling prophecy aspect to it.

That is just the Yankees fans. Everyone knows the Wagner is the most iconic card. It has been for 90 years and I don't see it ever changing.

[pherbener]

Clemente rookie card? I bought a topps 1955 Clemente PSA 5 two years ago bv (before virus).It’s been selling for 3500 to 3900 the last few months.I checked last night and there are 2 for sale - $6,400 and $8,300! Also a 5(mc) for $3,800! Could not believe it!

Compared to the increase in Mays and Mantle rookies, it's still a steal! Oh and I still think the Ruth rookie is undervalued!!

[Peter_Spaeth]

That is just the Yankees fans. Everyone knows the Wagner is the most iconic card. It has been for 90 years and I don't see it ever changing.

Right, but (until recently?) the Mantle while pricey was far more accessible than the Wagner. I'll qualify my statement to say the most iconic accessible (sort of) card.

[The Nasty Nati]

1939 Play Ball Ted Williams RC I think has been undervalued for years, even with today's prices.

[jayshum]

All you can expect is for the 51 Bowman to be worth more than other post war rookie cards. It is never going to catch the 52 Topps. Supply is more and demand is less. They are starting to move up in price. It will be interesting to see what they do in this months Heritage auction.

Clean Sweep Auction ending tonight has both a PSA 1 1951 Bowman Mantle and 1952 Topps Mantle. Right now, the Topps is at $31,800 and the Bowman is at $9317 (current bids without b.p.). They are both decent looking 1's although the centering on the Bowman is much worse than the Topps. It will be interesting to see where they both end.

[troutbum97]

Clean Sweep Auction ending tonight has both a PSA 1 1951 Bowman Mantle and 1952 Topps Mantle. Right now, the Topps is at $31,800 and the Bowman is at $9317 (current bids without b.p.). They are both decent looking 1's although the centering on the Bowman is much worse than the Topps. It will be interesting to see where they both end.

$11,000+ for a PSA 1 o/c 1951 Mantle? :confused::eek:

[Kutcher55]

39 Play Ball DiMaggio seems very undervalued. First Joe D card other than the '38 mini-me Goudey nonsense and an absolutely classic photo. Yet the '41 Playball trades at multiples more. Hey I love '41 playball but the '39 DiMaggio is a much better card IMO.

I think the '52 Topps Mays is off-the-charts iconic and a very good investment although it has doubled in the past 2 months so I guess it's half as good an investment as it was two months ago lol.

I think the '41 PlayBall Peewee Reese is a good buy. He was a great man and a pretty darn good ballplayer too.

1989 Topps Traded Randy Kutcher cards are also criminally undervalued.

[dio]

$11,000+ for a PSA 1 o/c 1951 Mantle? :confused::eek:

Taking off. Get it before it's too late. Price ratio between 52 topps and 51 bowman is just too great. Ppl finally realize it's undervalued

[joshuanip]

Babe Ruth rookie.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

I am jealous, all I can find are the ones on ebay nearly all of which are priced high and from the same seller. :eek:

Unfortunately not a rookie, but this is in our current auction:

[joshuanip]

Unfortunately not a rookie, but this is in our current auction:

There is a raw one on here for a couple hundred. Check the bst

[Kutcher55]

So is the 39PB Ted still on the list after the old label SGC2 just went for 3900 on eBay?

I finished in 5th place in the bidding woohoo!

[pherbener]

So is the 39PB Ted still on the list after the old label SGC2 just went for 3900 on eBay?

I finished in 5th place in the bidding woohoo!

It was a great looking card with some paper loss. Not a bad price given that!

[robertsmithnocure]

39 Play Ball DiMaggio seems very undervalued. First Joe D card other than the '38 mini-me Goudey nonsense and an absolutely classic photo. Yet the '41 Playball trades at multiples more.

What about his 1936 World Wide Gum card or his 1937 OPC?

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Anyone say Monte Irvin yet?

[DeanH3]

How about Aaron's 1954 Johnston Cookies? It's an absolute bargain compared to the current '54 Topps prices.

[Stampsfan]

How about the ‘52 Topps Eddie Mathews? It has not seen near the price jumps of the ‘52 Maya and Jackie.
When I bought mine both the others were well under #407 in price, but not any longer.

[dio]

How about Aaron's 1954 Johnston Cookies? It's an absolute bargain compared to the current '54 Topps prices.

All aaron had a jump but i don't think the demands are there, everyone wanted the topps.

[Big Six]

1965 Topps Carlton...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jchcollins]

We've been saying these same cards are undervalued ever since I can remember. There's probably a reason. That said, my vote would be for Seaver. High number, very tough card to find without one thing or another wrong, vastly underrated pitcher, arguably top 5 of all time.

Agreed. This has always been a pricey card. (I finally just landed one myself after wanting it literally for decades...) But the price range on them to me seems to always be tight. For example a PSA 8 may "only" be a $3k card, but even beat up ones and you are hard pressed to find them cheaper than $4-500 bucks. With that kind of activity on the lower end of the scale, it seems to me like the higher grade ones are artificially low. But I could be wrong.

[Kutcher55]

It was a great looking card with some paper loss. Not a bad price given that!

Agree it had great eye appeal.

[Kutcher55]

What about his 1936 World Wide Gum card or his 1937 OPC?

My bad. I still think the '39 Joe D is undervalued though.

[jchcollins]

1965 Topps Carlton...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I would tend to agree with you, but cards like that have seemingly been stuck in the mud for decades. '65 Carlton and Joe Morgan. '57 F. Robby and the '60 Yaz rookie. Just because a player is great doesn't always translate to card values. Stan Musial remains grossly undervalued for the player he was for virtually all of his cards that were produced after the 1940's. It's difficult to understand.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I would tend to agree with you, but cards like that have seemingly been stuck in the mud for decades. '65 Carlton and Joe Morgan. '57 F. Robby and the '60 Yaz rookie. Just because a player is great doesn't always translate to card values. Stan Musial remains grossly undervalued for the player he was for virtually all of his cards that were produced after the 1940's. It's difficult to understand.

On the flip side, there is no purely baseball reason for Mantle to dwarf everyone else in value; obviously there are many intangibles involved in why some players are relatively underappreciated card-wise. But I don't expect after all this time much will change for Musial, Spahn, Foxx, E Collins, etc.

[jchcollins]

On the flip side, there is no purely baseball reason for Mantle to dwarf everyone else in value; obviously there are many intangibles involved in why some players are relatively underappreciated card-wise. But I don't expect after all this time much will change for Musial, Spahn, Foxx, E Collins, etc.

True, but Mantle is virtually a unique situation unto himself, owing to how the hobby evolved in the late 1970's and early 80's. When things went from underground hotel shows to retail and multiple card shops in many towns by 1985 and later, many of the target baby boomer customers had all grown up idolizing Mickey Mantle. That's what I attribute it to, anyway. From a pure baseball perspective, he wasn't as good as Williams, Musial, Mays, Aaron, and possibly others.

[skelly423]

I've operated on this theory for a while, but the only players who really move the needle are all-time stars. Eventually everyone else fades into obscurity.
If you're not dealing with the players who were regarded as the top 1-2 players in the world during their career, their cards don't (and shouldn't) appreciate at the same rate as the all time greats.

There's no disrespect intended for these remarkable careers, but I don't look at these secondary stars as underpriced. I think their value reflects the fact that they aren't going to be the first names mentioned in a discussion of baseball history (Cobb, Ruth, Robinson, Mays, Aaron, etc.)

[Peter_Spaeth]

True, but Mantle is virtually a unique situation unto himself, owing to how the hobby evolved in the late 1970's and early 80's. When things went from underground hotel shows to retail and multiple card shops in many towns by 1985 and later, many of the target baby boomer customers had all grown up idolizing Mickey Mantle. That's what I attribute it to, anyway. From a pure baseball perspective, he wasn't as good as Williams, Musial, Mays, Aaron, and possibly others.

Not totally unique. Maris values are utterly disproportionate. Same, honestly, with Koufax (150 wins). Munson. Purely statistically speaking, Jackie.

[ASF123]

There is a raw one on here for a couple hundred. Check the bstNot anymore there's not. Jarrod is rapidly becoming my nemesis - apparently we like the same type of cards, but he's quicker on the draw. [shakes fist at sky] JARROD!!!

[ASF123]

I've operated on this theory for a while, but the only players who really move the needle are all-time stars. Eventually everyone else fades into obscurity.
If you're not dealing with the players who were regarded as the top 1-2 players in the world during their career, their cards don't (and shouldn't) appreciate at the same rate as the all time greats.

There's no disrespect intended for these remarkable careers, but I don't look at these secondary stars as underpriced. I think their value reflects the fact that they aren't going to be the first names mentioned in a discussion of baseball history (Cobb, Ruth, Robinson, Mays, Aaron, etc.)This seems right to me - it's not about all-time stats. The players whose cards skyrocket are the ones who transcend the baseball fan/hobby demographic and have some level of broader pop cultural significance. Which makes perfect sense, in that having, say, a Warren Spahn rookie card doesn't allow you to show off, because you first have to educate 99% of people on who Warren Spahn was. Then maybe they'll be a little bit impressed. Whereas a lot more people will be instantly impressed by your Mickey or Jackie.

[jchcollins]

Not totally unique. Maris values are utterly disproportionate. Same, honestly, with Koufax (150 wins). Munson. Purely statistically speaking, Jackie.

I would agree, but in proportion. Maris isn't valued anywhere near Mantle, of course.

[skelly423]

This seems right to me - it's not about all-time stats. The players whose cards skyrocket are the ones who transcend the baseball fan/hobby demographic and have some level of broader pop cultural significance. Which makes perfect sense, in that having, say, a Warren Spahn rookie card doesn't allow you to show off, because you first have to educate 99% of people on who Warren Spahn was. Then maybe they'll be a little bit impressed. Whereas a lot more people will be instantly impressed by your Mickey or Jackie.

You said that better than I did. I will add that I think there may be some extra boost that comes when a player starred for a behemoth like the Yankees rather than a smaller market like Milwaukee. The Yankees bring an automatic boost to pop cultural appeal (my wife knows the Yankees, she's go no idea where the Braves play/played). It's not fair, but I do think that if Stan Musial played in NYC, he would be mentioned in the same echelon as Willie Mays. Likewise, Mickey Mantle as a St. Louis Brown becomes just another name.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Same, honestly, with Koufax (150 wins). Purely statistically speaking, Jackie.

You just shut your Dodger hating mouth. :p

Seriously though, while the mystique of what might have been (and the unprecedented run of dominance) definitely lift Koufax over what his career numbers would lead you to expect. I think Jackie is underrated as an actual player.

Jackie - all the percentage numbers are among the all time greats at the position OPS+ of 132 if 6th all time among 2b in the 20th century. Since the brevity of his career wasn't even injury, but rather societally created I don't think you can look at counting stats the same way you can even with someone like Koufax.

Make me a list of 2b with a career slash of .311/.409/.474 it's a damn short list! Not a lot of nearly .900 Career OPS guys at 2b.

162 Game average of 111 Runs 178 Hits 32 Doubles 6 Triples 16 Home Runs 86 RBI 23 Steals 87 BB and only 34 K's is pretty stellar.

So yeah the counting numbers might not be there, but he was never mediocre, his career wasn't shortened by injury. The stats he was able to put up in the time he had are pretty astonishing.

[packs]

You said that better than I did. I will add that I think there may be some extra boost that comes when a player starred for a behemoth like the Yankees rather than a smaller market like Milwaukee. The Yankees bring an automatic boost to pop cultural appeal (my wife knows the Yankees, she's go no idea where the Braves play/played). It's not fair, but I do think that if Stan Musial played in NYC, he would be mentioned in the same echelon as Willie Mays. Likewise, Mickey Mantle as a St. Louis Brown becomes just another name.


That's been a prevalent theory in the hobby for a long time but interestingly enough it doesn't apply to modern cards in the least. Trout's cards can't be touched by anyone and he plays for a perennial loser and always will.

[rats60]

I would tend to agree with you, but cards like that have seemingly been stuck in the mud for decades. '65 Carlton and Joe Morgan. '57 F. Robby and the '60 Yaz rookie. Just because a player is great doesn't always translate to card values. Stan Musial remains grossly undervalued for the player he was for virtually all of his cards that were produced after the 1940's. It's difficult to understand.

But it wasn't always that way. Ted Williams and Musial used to be priced in higher tiers. Some of these rookie cards were priced much higher relative to where they are today. 1938 Goudey DiMaggio and 1939 Ted Williams for Prewar. 1948 Bowman Musial, 1957 Brooks Robinson, 1960 Yaz, 1965 Carlton, 1967 Seaver and 1973 Schmidt for postwar. The 1968 Bench was always the same as the 1968 Ryan until ~1989-91 when Ryan got hot. Mantle wasn't priced above other top tier HOFs until a few dealers decided to buy up Mantles to sell to non collectors. So, I wouldn't absolutely say that some of these couldn't turn around.

[Tyruscobb]

True, but Mantle is virtually a unique situation unto himself, owing to how the hobby evolved in the late 1970's and early 80's. When things went from underground hotel shows to retail and multiple card shops in many towns by 1985 and later, many of the target baby boomer customers had all grown up idolizing Mickey Mantle. That's what I attribute it to, anyway. From a pure baseball perspective, he wasn't as good as Williams, Musial, Mays, Aaron, and possibly others.

There are several potential factors that explain the disproportionate value gaps between Mantle, Mays, and Aaron cards, considering their careers essentially began around the same time.

First, there is the Yankee factor. Mantle was a life-long Yankee, and played for the sporting world’s most well-known franchise. People collect the best player on the best team. Second, there is New York City factor. Although Mays partially played his career in NYC, Mantle played his entire career in it. Mantle received more exposure during his playing days.

Third, there is the winning factor. Mays and Aaron only have one title each. Mantle was a seven-time world series champion. Again, more exposure. Fourth, Mantle has the most iconic post-war card, which is arguably the second all-time most iconic card only behind the T-206 Wagner. There is a trickle-down effect to other cards. You see this with Wagner’s other cards as well.

Finally, I’m not trying to start any political debates, but there is the race factor. The 1950s and 1960s was obviously an entirely different era. White kids from this era grew up idolizing and pretending to be Mantle, while African American kids grew up idolizing and pretending to be Mays/Aaron at the plate in their sandlots.

This simply carried over to collecting. There are more white collectors than African American ones (at least based solely on my unscientific observations from attending shows for over 30 years), and these baby boomers are simply collecting their childhood hero more than Mays/Aaron. I think all these factors are at play.

On a side note, has anyone else observed the Mays explosion since January? You simply cannot find a decently priced Mays card anymore. Wow!

[jchcollins]

But it wasn't always that way. Ted Williams and Musial used to be priced in higher tiers. Some of these rookie cards were priced much higher relative to where they are today. 1938 Goudey DiMaggio and 1939 Ted Williams for Prewar. 1948 Bowman Musial, 1957 Brooks Robinson, 1960 Yaz, 1965 Carlton, 1967 Seaver and 1973 Schmidt for postwar. The 1968 Bench was always the same as the 1968 Ryan until ~1989-91 when Ryan got hot. Mantle wasn't priced above other top tier HOFs until a few dealers decided to buy up Mantles to sell to non collectors. So, I wouldn't absolutely say that some of these couldn't turn around.

Yeah but the Mantle price points relative to other HOF'ers have been basically the same for 40 years now. It could change, but I would be surprised if it changes dramatically.

[jchcollins]

There are several potential factors that explain the disproportionate value gaps between Mantle, Mays, and Aaron cards, considering their careers essentially began around the same time.

Totally. The fact that he played his whole career in NY, was constantly showing his phiz on TV in October of every year, etc. etc. played heavily into WHY he was the idol of so many baby boomers who got into the hobby again in the 1980's.

[rats60]

Yeah but the Mantle price points relative to other HOF'ers have been basically the same for 40 years now. It could change, but I would be surprised if it changes dramatically.

I really don't see Mantle being replaced at the top. However, some of those cards could be more in line. Collecting in the 60s, Ted Williams was #1 followed by Musial, Mays, Koufax and then Mantle. Mays and Aaron seem to be closing the gap and in the past Jackie and Clemente have made big jumps. I can see Ted and Stan being guys poised for good run ups with their RCs leading the way.

[AGuinness]

I think the Speaker T206 could be on the list, which is considered his rookie by some (I'm sure that topic could be a whole other post).
Overall, I'm not sure that ANY cards these days are being undervalued. Some of the prices are just jaw-dropping. I don't think this is a bubble, per say, but I think that it's very likely that many cards will drop back down some when the pandemic really slows down and people get back to "normal" lives (some cards certainly much more than others). We'll see how many of the new collector/investors stay active, how many sell to collect the profits and how many shove their cards in the back of the closet.

[packs]

All due respect to Tris Speaker and Eddie Collins but why exactly are they due for a bump? Outside of this board specifically, I think it would be tough to find any casual fan who is familiar with either player. The images on their T206's aren't very inspiring either. I know people like the Collins portrait but it doesn't catch my eye like say, the Lajoie with bat does.

I think when it comes to T206's card image is always going to play a major role in value. That's why Shag and Titus are where they are. And why the Lajoie with bat is where it is. Not sure I see any reason to pay more for Speaker or Collins.

[bigred1]

Stan Musial for me, even lost age 24 season for military service.

[mechanicalman]

All due respect to Tris Speaker and Eddie Collins but why exactly are they due for a bump? Outside of this board specifically, I think it would be tough to find any casual fan who is familiar with either player. The images on their T206's aren't very inspiring either. I know people like the Collins portrait but it doesn't catch my eye like say, the Lajoie with bat does.

I think when it comes to T206's card image is always going to play a major role in value. That's why Shag and Titus are where they are. And why the Lajoie with bat is where it is. Not sure I see any reason to pay more for Speaker or Collins.

Maybe one reason to pay more for Speaker or Collins over Lajoie is that they were better baseball players.

[packs]

Maybe one reason to pay more for Speaker or Collins over Lajoie is that they were better baseball players.

That's not how it works though. Otherwise Ten Million's Obak wouldn't be worth what it is. There needs to be an X factor for a card to take off that otherwise hasn't. I don't see a ton of interest coming Eddie Collins' way.

[Great Winfield]

There are two that stand out to me in a relative sense (making no judgement on whether the overall valuation "tide" is too high or not):

1. 1965 Topps Joe Morgan - There are only 80 PSA 9's and 2 10's. Sure, it is a two-player card, but the 9 at ~$2500 is almost certainly among the very cheapest high-grade rookie cards for any top 20 all-time player.

2. 1939 Play Ball Ted Williams - There are only 88 PSA 8's, 1 8.5, 12 9's and 1 10. Given the soaring prices of other top players, how is the PSA 8 not a six-figure card?? A mythical figure and American hero. His Baseballreference.com page is pure stats porn. Almost 5 prime years lost to military service. Most folks likely know about him not winning MVP in either of his triple crown seasons (not to mention the 1941 0.406 avg season) - but how about posting a 190 OPS+ in his final age-41 season, better than Joe D's BEST ever such figure. Pretty good final AB too!

[rman444]

His Baseballreference.com page is pure stats porn.

This made me smile :D

[Peter_Spaeth]

There are two that stand out to me in a relative sense (making no judgement on whether the overall valuation "tide" is too high or not):

1. 1965 Topps Joe Morgan - There are only 80 PSA 9's and 2 10's. Sure, it is a two-player card, but the 9 at ~$2500 is almost certainly among the very cheapest high-grade rookie cards for any top 20 all-time player.

2. 1939 Play Ball Ted Williams - There are only 88 PSA 8's, 1 8.5, 12 9's and 1 10. Given the soaring prices of other top players, how is the PSA 8 not a six-figure card?? A mythical figure and American hero. His Baseballreference.com page is pure stats porn. Almost 5 prime years lost to military service. Most folks likely know about him not winning MVP in either of his triple crown seasons (not to mention the 1941 0.406 avg season) - but how about posting a 190 OPS+ in his final age-41 season, better than Joe D's BEST ever such figure. Pretty good final AB too!

With due respect to Bill James, I would not rate Morgan in the top 20 players of all time. Anywhere south of 2 I would not argue with Williams though.

[rats60]

It seems like all the guys who lost prime years to the war are underrated. Joe DiMaggio, Bob Feller, Hank Greenberg, Johnny Mize, etc. Even though Musial only lost 1 year, it still could have made a big difference, such as hitting 500+ HRs. With Williams spending 5 years in the service, people used to give him credit, but not really anymore.

For Williams just give him 154 game averages for those 5 seasons and he has 2400 runs, 3550 hits, 700 2b, 700 HR, 2450 RBI, 6500 TB, 2700 BB and 160 WAR. He is now top 5 in all those and 1st in runs, RBI and BB. If he happens to break Ruth's HR record first then his profile goes higher. As time goes by people just forget and not having those numbers suppress his card values.

[mechanicalman]

That's not how it works though. Otherwise Ten Million's Obak wouldn't be worth what it is. There needs to be an X factor for a card to take off that otherwise hasn't. I don't see a ton of interest coming Eddie Collins' way.

Sorry, I don't know what system of valuation to which you're referring. The topic at hand is undervalued rookie cards; not the premium paid for cool mustaches, funny names, or beautiful sunsets.

[JollyElm]

I beg you, for the love of God, for everything holy, please, please, please, please FIX THE FRICKIN' MISSPELLING IN THE THREAD TITLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm begging you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[packs]

Sorry, I don't know what system of valuation to which you're referring. The topic at hand is undervalued rookie cards; not the premium paid for cool mustaches, funny names, or beautiful sunsets.

Sure, but for something to be undervalued it has to be priced below the level the hobby generally views the player or card. So when someone says Ted Williams' rookie card is undervalued, it's because the hobby more or less loves Williams.

You're talking about Eddie Collins and Tris Speaker, who don't have that same status in the hobby. I think their cards are priced accordingly per the interest they have. So I'm wondering what you see. If you think they were better than people give them credit for, that's not how I interpreted the question about value. But is definitely fair to say. They were great players.

[jchcollins]

Feel free to disagree, but unless it's like the M101 Babe Ruth, I've never thought that some black and white cards have gotten their due simply because of that. Most if we are being honest simply aren't as attractive as color issues.

[Republicaninmass]

I beg you, for the love of God, for everything holy, please, please, please, please FIX THE FRICKIN' MISSPELLING IN THE THREAD TITLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm begging you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Maybe the OP Is a native Canadian eh?

[Huysmans]

Maybe the OP Is a native Canadian eh?

Impossible. We only care about hockey cards, toques, maple syrup and Rush.

We have no time for silly shit like men running around bases, apple pie, or an overgrown woman made of copper with a sore arm who just loiters and can't seem to find a gown that fits properly. :D

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Impossible. We only care about hockey cards, toques, maple syrup and Rush.

We have no time for silly shit like men running around bases, apple pie, or an overgrown woman made of copper with a sore arm who just loiters and can't seem to find a gown that fits properly. :D

Triumph would like a word with you...

[Huysmans]

Triumph would like a word with you...

Hold On, don't do Too Much Thinking. Just because I may be an Ordinary Man who's Headed for Nowhere and living in A World of Fantasy, doesn't mean I'm unaware that Somebody's out There like Triumph.

Never say Never and always Follow your Heart, it's the Rocky Mountain Way my friend.....

[ajjohnsonsoxfan]

Feel free to disagree, but unless it's like the M101 Babe Ruth, I've never thought that some black and white cards have gotten their due simply because of that. Most if we are being honest simply aren't as attractive as color issues.

Agree with this. Wanted to buy Teddy Ballgame's RC so many times, but the card is so not attractive in b&w and just couldn't pull the trigger. His 54 Bowman is the card to own

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Hold On, don't do Too Much Thinking. Just because I may be an Ordinary Man who's Headed for Nowhere and living in A World of Fantasy, doesn't mean I'm unaware that Somebody's out There like Triumph.

Never say Never and always Follow your Heart, it's the Rocky Mountain Way my friend.....

LOL, I have a few Canadian friends who I joke with about Rush vs Triumph. Basically saying you can have Triumph, you have to share Rush.

[Casey2296]

Agree with this. Wanted to buy Teddy Ballgame's RC so many times, but the card is so not attractive in b&w and just couldn't pull the trigger. His 54 Bowman is the card to own

I've always preferred this Ted Williams card over all others.

[itjclarke]

Feel free to disagree, but unless it's like the M101 Babe Ruth, I've never thought that some black and white cards have gotten their due simply because of that. Most if we are being honest simply aren't as attractive as color issues.

I feel like BW is one of the reasons the '47 Bond Bread Jackie Robinsons haven't seen the increases his Leaf has. However does seem his Bond Bread portrait and rounded corner rookies are picking up steam of late.

[Blunder19]

I would say the 51 bowman mantle is under valued as compared to the jump the 52topps counter part has recognized. I think the 51 bowman mantle rookie will be on its way up on the near future. $10k for a psa 1 type jump.

[jayshum]

I would say the 51 bowman mantle is under valued as compared to the jump the 52topps counter part has recognized. I think the 51 bowman mantle rookie will be on its way up on the near future. $10k for a psa 1 type jump.

A PSA 1 51 Bowman Mantle just sold for over $11K in the last Clean Sweep Auction.

[Blunder19]

Sweet baby Jesus.

[Illustrious]

There are two that stand out to me in a relative sense (making no judgement on whether the overall valuation "tide" is too high or not):

1. 1965 Topps Joe Morgan - There are only 80 PSA 9's and 2 10's. Sure, it is a two-player card, but the 9 at ~$2500 is almost certainly among the very cheapest high-grade rookie cards for any top 20 all-time player.

2. 1939 Play Ball Ted Williams - There are only 88 PSA 8's, 1 8.5, 12 9's and 1 10. Given the soaring prices of other top players, how is the PSA 8 not a six-figure card?? A mythical figure and American hero. His Baseballreference.com page is pure stats porn. Almost 5 prime years lost to military service. Most folks likely know about him not winning MVP in either of his triple crown seasons (not to mention the 1941 0.406 avg season) - but how about posting a 190 OPS+ in his final age-41 season, better than Joe D's BEST ever such figure. Pretty good final AB too!

One of the first things I did last Spring when I saw the sports card market was about go into a boom period, was look at the vintage cards I had on my want list and pick 1 or 2 that I knew would probably explode if I didn't get them asap. For me, the number one card I thought would get out of my reach if I didn't make a move was the '39 Play Ball Ted Williams RC, and I was fortunate enough to be able to win a SGC 1 for around $1200. The number two card I on my list, which technically is not a RC, was the '52 Topps Willie Mays, which I bought from Dean's at a inflated price at the time, but in hindsight was quite a deal.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50063604201_09d18c4b41_z.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50906787111_039148ab43_z.jpg

[BRoberts]

One of the first things I did last Spring when I saw the sports card market was about go into a boom period, was look at the vintage cards I had on my want list and pick 1 or 2 that I knew would probably explode if I didn't get them asap.

Congratulations on being able to forecast this boom period just before it happened. You probably wish you had bought more.

[Illustrious]

Congratulations on being able to forecast this boom period just before it happened. You probably wish you had bought more.

Well I wouldn't say I forecast it before it happened, I just saw the frenzy in modern cards happening, especially in basketball with the hype from the Last Dance documentary pushing things up, and I knew it would eventually reach the vintage market. Of course I wish I could have bought more vintage cards then, but I was pushing it as-is with what I could afford, and I was more concerned with just having the cards in my collection before I was priced out, over buying multiples for future resale.

[dio]

Congrat. I feel the same way. Vintage has been undervalued for so so long. We just starting to pick up a little and ppl are already claiming we're in a big bubble.

[troutbum97]

A PSA 1 51 Bowman Mantle just sold for over $11K in the last Clean Sweep Auction.

.... another at $10,800 on eBay - ended 5 mins ago.
My bid came in 4th place :confused::rolleyes:



https://www.ebay.com/itm/1951-Bowman-Mickey-Mantle-ROOKIE-card-RC-253-PSA-1/233878373102?autorefresh=true

[dio]

.... another at $10,800 on eBay - ended 5 mins ago.
My bid came in 4th place :confused::rolleyes:



https://www.ebay.com/itm/1951-Bowman-Mickey-Mantle-ROOKIE-card-RC-253-PSA-1/233878373102?autorefresh=true

There's a sgc4 52 topps just ended not long ago for 50k by the same seller. I think buyer gets a good deal. Horrible picture so yellowish and scratch up holder. Seller should do a little bit of work before selling or leave to professional. At least reholder it and take some decent picture and don't set it to end in the early morning.

[troutbum97]

There's a sgc4 52 topps just ended not long ago for 50k by the same seller. I think buyer gets a good deal. Horrible picture so yellowish and scratch up holder. Seller should do a little bit of work before selling or leave to professional. At least reholder it and take some decent picture and don't set it to end in the early morning.

No shit. Great point.
Seller is lucky these cards sell themselves in this feeding frenzy.

[h2oya311]

So I’ve been selling a few of my 1950s Topps rookies to take some chips off the table. Might never get some of these back if prices continue to rise. The number of people who have reached out to me post sale on some of these cards shows me that there is still room for growth.

Anyway, can anyone explain the background of the 1951 Bowman Mays? Is that a sheet trying to hide the background, which appears to be a Midwestern barn?

Seriously, what the heck is it? A green barn? Here’s the one I sold:

https://photos.imageevent.com/derekgranger/hofrookies1/websize/1951%20Mays1.jpg

[ronniehatesjazz]

So I’ve been selling a few of my 1950s Topps rookies to take some chips off the table. Might never get some of these back if prices continue to rise. The number of people who have reached out to me post sale on some of these cards shows me that there is still room for growth.

Anyway, can anyone explain the background of the 1951 Bowman Mays? Is that a sheet trying to hide the background, which appears to be a Midwestern barn?

Seriously, what the heck is it? A green barn? Here’s the one I sold:

https://photos.imageevent.com/derekgranger/hofrookies1/websize/1951%20Mays1.jpg

Haha, I've always wondered the same thing. The actual picture was sold in an auction (I think Lelands) several years ago and it's in a stadium. Not sure what the artist was going for here but I always thought it was supposed to be a spring training shot and that odd looking tarp being used as a bp backstop off the field.

[Casey2296]

So I’ve been selling a few of my 1950s Topps rookies to take some chips off the table. Might never get some of these back if prices continue to rise. The number of people who have reached out to me post sale on some of these cards shows me that there is still room for growth.

Anyway, can anyone explain the background of the 1951 Bowman Mays? Is that a sheet trying to hide the background, which appears to be a Midwestern barn?

Seriously, what the heck is it? A green barn? Here’s the one I sold:

https://photos.imageevent.com/derekgranger/hofrookies1/websize/1951%20Mays1.jpg

Artistic license.
Here's the photo used for the card (not my photo). The background is a canvas backstop (see grommet), the barn or equipment shed serves a few purposes. It establishes depth perspective for the viewer, balances a hard vertical edge against the soft flowing canvas edge to keep your eye from exiting to the right, the dark roof-line is important to the image also as it forces your eye back to the subject matter. The shed also ties in the green of the underside of his cap with the color of the siding, the gold canvas is also tied in to the small dirt patch at the base of the shed. You can see five layers of depth. The name, the batter, the canvas, the shed, and the sky. Arguably there are 3 more subtle layers, the grommet, the patch of dirt at the base of the shed, and the peak of the roof.

The blue sky is left open so the viewers eye can exit the painting. The artist also removed the shoulder patch and painted the shoulder the brightest white to guide your eyes from that spot up to Willies eyes, down his right shoulder to his hands, then up the bat to the top, then across the painting and out the blue sky patch. Interesting to note, his left shoulder sits squarely in what is known as the golden mean or golden ratio which is used in architecture and painting.

IMHO, one of the most beautiful cards ever made.

[Chris Counts]

If the knuckleheads who decide who gets a plaque in Cooperstown ever get a freakin' clue, Minnie Minoso rookies will go up. But the whole rookie thing has never made much since to me.

[JollyElm]

Artistic license.
Here's the photo used for the card (not my photo). The background is a canvas backstop (see grommet), the barn or equipment shed serves a few purposes. It establishes depth perspective for the viewer, balances a hard vertical edge against the soft flowing canvas edge to keep your eye from exiting to the right, the dark roof-line is important to the image also as it forces your eye back to the subject matter. The shed also ties in the green of the underside of his cap with the color of the siding, the gold canvas is also tied in to the small dirt patch at the base of the shed. You can see five layers of depth. The name, the batter, the canvas, the shed, and the sky. Arguably there are 3 more subtle layers, the grommet, the patch of dirt at the base of the shed, and the peak of the roof.

The blue sky is left open so the viewers eye can exit the painting. The artist also removed the shoulder patch and painted the shoulder the brightest white to guide your eyes from that spot up to Willies eyes, down his right shoulder to his hands, then up the bat to the top then across the painting and out the blue sky patch. Interesting to note, his left shoulder sits squarely in what is known as the golden mean or golden ratio which is used used in architecture and painting.

IMHO, one of the most beautiful cards ever made.

And you successfully sent everyone scurrying off to wikipedia to look up the "golden ratio," and we all wound up reading about the Ace of Base album. Well done. :D

[Exhibitman]

The Foxx RCs are good deals even now. Foxx finished his 20-year career with 534 home runs, 1,922 runs batted in, 1,751 runs scored, 2,646 hits, 458 doubles, 125 triples, 1,452 bases on balls and a .325 batting average. His 12 consecutive seasons with 30 or more home runs was a major league record until it was broken by Barry (cheater) Bonds in 2004. At the end of his career, his 534 home runs placed him second only to Ruth on the all-time list, and first among right-handed hitters. He retained these positions until Willie Mays passed Foxx for second place in 1966.

In the post-war era I think many of the regionals other than Mantle are underpriced right now. The 1954 Johnson's Aaron has already been mentioned.

Pre-rookies other than DiMaggio are often relatively cheap. Look at the many Zeenuts HOFers.

[jbhofmann]

Artistic license.
Here's the photo used for the card (not my photo). The background is a canvas backstop (see grommet), the barn or equipment shed serves a few purposes. It establishes depth perspective for the viewer, balances a hard vertical edge against the soft flowing canvas edge to keep your eye from exiting to the right, the dark roof-line is important to the image also as it forces your eye back to the subject matter. The shed also ties in the green of the underside of his cap with the color of the siding, the gold canvas is also tied in to the small dirt patch at the base of the shed. You can see five layers of depth. The name, the batter, the canvas, the shed, and the sky. Arguably there are 3 more subtle layers, the grommet, the patch of dirt at the base of the shed, and the peak of the roof.

The blue sky is left open so the viewers eye can exit the painting. The artist also removed the shoulder patch and painted the shoulder the brightest white to guide your eyes from that spot up to Willies eyes, down his right shoulder to his hands, then up the bat to the top then across the painting and out the blue sky patch. Interesting to note, his left shoulder sits squarely in what is known as the golden mean or golden ratio which is used used in architecture and painting.

IMHO, one of the most beautiful cards ever made.

Most visually stunning card in the hobby. The colors are tremendous.

[maniac_73]

LOL, I have a few Canadian friends who I joke with about Rush vs Triumph. Basically saying you can have Triumph, you have to share Rush.

Geddy Lee is a member here on Net54 lol

[Casey2296]

Most visually stunning card in the hobby. The colors are tremendous.

It's interesting that the 51 bowman set hit all the marks on a lot of cards in that set. The Mantle runs a close second behind Mays for perfect balance and beauty. But there's also Spahn, Williams, Snider, Campy, Rizzuto, and Doby to name a few. They missed the mark on Feller & Berra though, their 1950 cards are perfect, in 51 they went to head shots. The elephant in the room though is how much better that set would have been with a 51 Robinson and Paige but that's just fantasy talk.

Now let's talk Topps. 52 Mantle, great design. 52 Mays? Horrible. If you've ever seen the photo that card was based on it's a design nightmare. Dark subject on a dark background and no flow. 53 Mantle? Even better design than 52. Mays? He looks like my 13 year old son on little league picture day. Shameful.

Topps for the most part had no idea what they were doing when it came to the nuance of black skin from 1952 thru 1956. They got Aaron right for the most part but if you look at their Mays and Clemente cards they printed their skin color way too dark. Missed opportunity in my opinion.

[h2oya311]

Artistic license.
Here's the photo used for the card (not my photo). The background is a canvas backstop (see grommet), the barn or equipment shed serves a few purposes. It establishes depth perspective for the viewer, balances a hard vertical edge against the soft flowing canvas edge to keep your eye from exiting to the right, the dark roof-line is important to the image also as it forces your eye back to the subject matter. The shed also ties in the green of the underside of his cap with the color of the siding, the gold canvas is also tied in to the small dirt patch at the base of the shed. You can see five layers of depth. The name, the batter, the canvas, the shed, and the sky. Arguably there are 3 more subtle layers, the grommet, the patch of dirt at the base of the shed, and the peak of the roof.

The blue sky is left open so the viewers eye can exit the painting. The artist also removed the shoulder patch and painted the shoulder the brightest white to guide your eyes from that spot up to Willies eyes, down his right shoulder to his hands, then up the bat to the top, then across the painting and out the blue sky patch. Interesting to note, his left shoulder sits squarely in what is known as the golden mean or golden ratio which is used in architecture and painting.

IMHO, one of the most beautiful cards ever made.

Thank you Phil. That is one of the best explanations of the artistry of a card (any card) of all time! Thank you for that. Are there other cards you’ve studied that would receive the same (or greater) reverence from you?

I’m blown away by your thorough response. I don’t know why I hadn’t noticed the background before. I always loved the look of the card, but didn’t know why. I guess the artist did his job!!! And Mays did his!!

[Jstottlemire1]

Unfortunately not a rookie, but this is in our current auction:

I’m not a fan but Pete Rose is super tough to find with good eye appeal and inexpensive for being all time hits leader. I can also see the Speaker in that same category. Bench I agree also. Mays certainly was I had bought his true rc at 4500 and sold for 18500 in less than 6 months owning it. Finally getting the respect it deserves.

[skelly423]

It's interesting that the 51 bowman set hit all the marks on a lot of cards in that set. The Mantle runs a close second behind Mays for perfect balance and beauty. But there's also Spahn, Williams, Snider, Campy, Rizzuto, and Doby to name a few. They missed the mark on Feller & Berra though, their 1950 cards are perfect, in 51 they went to head shots. The elephant in the room though is how much better that set would have been with a 51 Robinson and Paige but that's just fantasy talk.

Now let's talk Topps. 52 Mantle, great design. 52 Mays? Horrible. If you've ever seen the photo that card was based on it's a design nightmare. Dark subject on a dark background and no flow. 53 Mantle? Even better design than 52. Mays? He looks like my 13 year old son on little league picture day. Shameful.

Topps for the most part had no idea what they were doing when it came to the nuance of black skin from 1952 thru 1956. They got Aaron right for the most part but if you look at their Mays and Clemente cards they printed their skin color way too dark. Missed opportunity in my opinion.

I've branched out from rookie cards (for obvious financial reasons) and started picking up visually appealing early cards of stars. Between the 1951 and 1953 set, Bowman has the best looking cards in the hobby (minus the bizarre 1951 Paul Richards). Topps doesn't make a nice Mays card until 1954. IMO Bowman doesn't get anywhere near the hobby love it should for what they produced.

[h2oya311]

Interesting that you mentioned Paul Richards. I’ve found that his 1950s JD McCarthy postcard doesn’t conform to the typical look of other JD McCarthy postcards. Most notably, it’s the only horizontal one I’ve seen for an individual player. All other single-player postcards are oriented vertically. I wonder if there is something further that could be explored here with respect to this particular player... maybe he wanted to “be different”.

[Exhibitman]

Geddy Lee is a member here on Net54 lol

Love Rush!

https://photos.imageevent.com/exhibitman/music/websize/RUSH.jpg

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Geddy Lee is a member here on Net54 lol

WHAT? That's awesome!

[UKCardGuy]

I've always preferred this Ted Williams card over all others.

+1.IMO it's one of the most beautiful cards produced.

[Jcfowler6]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210207/9de6013caa82850d4552f6d9f4eb0f2d.jpg
Yogi has to be in the conversation.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[itjclarke]

These guys too... wish I had nicer examples.

[packs]

From the other thread on the pre-1980 side, I agree with the thought on Jackie's true rookie card. The significance of Robinson's career can't be overstated and I think the same would be true for the first card every issued of him from a set devoted to him.

The 75th anniversary is just around the corner too.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50926196882_8d631be36e_w.jpg

[tkd]

I still think all Hornsby cards are undervalued.

[bobbyw8469]

Some of those that people are naming are not really that cheap anymore. Bob Gibson and Frank Robinson USED to be extremely affordable. Not anymore. I think you have to look OUTSIDE of baseball now. Elway and Marino seem cheap. Some of those guys.

[vansaad]

I feel like BW is one of the reasons the '47 Bond Bread Jackie Robinsons haven't seen the increases his Leaf has. However does seem his Bond Bread portrait and rounded corner rookies are picking up steam of late.

It's a bit of an unknown if the Bond Bread portraits are keeping up with the other Jackie iconic cards ('48 Leaf, '49 Bowman & '52 Topps), but my guess is that a mid to high grade example would bring record prices if brought to market right now. The total pop is 10-20% of those other cards, so there are much fewer sales comps over the last few months since prices exploded. Two PSA 6's sold in August 2020 for $15k and $19k, and another PSA 6 sold in January for $30k, so it had begun to take off like the others. The SGC 8.5 sold last August for $35k. A PSA 7 sold for $32k in early December. Based on the recent surge in prices for Jackie, I think anything higher than a PSA 5 would probably set a record now.