Another PSA mess up? major card - AA to 5

[Rhotchkiss]

This was posted on another site I visit (not blowout)- sorry to have to do this via pics. SuperDan from BODA believes that a PSA Altered, t206 Red Cobb, Carolina Brights, now sits in a PSA 5 flip.

You all decide. To all PSA apologists, this is not mere PSA-hating: even if there was no foul play, there is simply no excuse for a card of this caliber to go from an AA flip to a 5, period. I am fairly sure it is, or was until recently, part of the David Hall collection, which if true, does not look good either.

I would hate to be the guy who spent all that money for a card these experts once determined was altered....

“Never get Cheated”

[luciobar1980]

Thos epics are very very low quality. Can you link us to original images?

[yanks12025]

Can you please post better photos

[biggsdaddycool]

Yes, please...better pics.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Rhotchkiss]

Lets see if these are better. I will link the site/thread if I am permitted to do so.

[Pat R]

Technically David Hall still owns it. He purchased it in the PSA 5 holder and it
hasn't come up for sale in one of his auctions yet.

[dabbuu]

Wow, cut and dry same card. Thank you for posting

[Rhotchkiss]

Technically David Hall still owns it. He purchased it in the PSA 5 holder and it
hasn't come up for sale in one of his auctions yet.

Pat, I think this card may been purchased from the David Hall collection privately before the auctions began.

[mantlefan]

That's a match Ryan. There are several small spots on the top border which are the same on both images. Thanks for posting,

[atx840]

Prior to the Altered -

https://i.imgur.com/vsShBDc.jpg

[Rhotchkiss]

Nice find Chris. So the same card went from a 4, to an A, to a 5.....

[Orioles1954]

Nice find Chris. So the same card went from a 4, to an A, to a 5.....

Unfortunately, this is part of the whole crack and re-submit (maybe with some doctoring in between) that is common. Have seen it dozens, if not hundreds of times.

[Wanaselja]

That's a match Ryan. There are several small spots on the top border which are the same on both images. Thanks for posting,

Agreed. Clearest indicators.

[luciobar1980]

Yeah, definitely the same card as others have said. I wonder what the supposed alteration was? The card does look super sharp for a 4, let alone a 5.

[Tyruscobb]

If they are all the same card, the latest version appears darker to me. The red appears darker.

The latest version is also missing the small white speck near Cobb’s ear. The A-A version shows a white speck near Cobbs left ear (card’s right side) while the latest one does not.

[Casey2296]

Such a shame, looked like a great card before. I wish people valued and paid more for wider borders. Wider the border, higher price for the card. That'd be hard to fake.
But I'm also a guy who thinks school teachers should get paid more than school administrators. Don't think either one of those is happening anytime soon.

[sb1]

What if nothing was actually done to it? 1st submitter gets a 4, he or the next owner thinks it's nicer, cracks and resubmits, gets an A. He or the next party that owns it, cracks and resubmits again, get a 5.

This happens all the time, cards are continually submitted, cracked and resubmitted just to get a better grade, without actually doing anything to the card. Not saying that is the absolute case here, as the card cannot reasonably be examined via scans. But on first glance it appears identical in all three holders.

After further review of the scans, the AA does appear to have a narrower right border....

[Leon]

Such a shame, looked like a great card before. I wish people valued and paid more for wider borders. Wider the border, higher price for the card. That'd be hard to fake.
But I'm also a guy who thinks school teachers should get paid more than school administrators. Don't think either one of those is happening anytime soon.

I know people who already do this. :)

.

[Rhotchkiss]

What if nothing was actually done to it? 1st submitter gets a 4, he or the next owner thinks it's nicer, cracks and resubmits, gets an A. He or the next party that owns it, cracks and resubmits again, get a 5.

This happens all the time, cards are continually submitted, cracked and resubmitted just to get a better grade, without actually doing anything to the card. Not saying that is the absolute case here, as the card cannot reasonably be examined via scans. But on first glance it appears identical in all three holders.

After further review of the scans, the AA does appear to have a narrower right border....

Scott, I get the crack and resubmit game. But if PSA is an expert, then there is no way that the grades on a t206 red Cobb, Carolina brights, should range from a 4, to an AA, to a 5. At best it shows the total inconsistency of PSA’s product. At worst it shows their absolute incompetence. And, the fact that this belonged to David Hall at some point does not help.

[frankrizzo29]

I completely agree PSA was incompetent with this card.

Does the owner of this card know of these issues? And, if so, what does this person do about it? I'm sure PSA will not do anything about it. If they do a grade review, they're not going to admit to slabbing an altered card.

[horzverti]

Nice find Chris. So the same card went from a 4, to an A, to a 5.....

Assuming that it is the same card and that PSA cert # system follows actual numerical order, then the card went from AA, to a 5 to a 4.

[sb1]

Scott, I get the crack and resubmit game. But if PSA is an expert, then there is no way that the grades on a t206 red Cobb, Carolina brights, should range from a 4, to an AA, to a 5. At best it shows the total inconsistency of PSA’s product. At worst it shows their absolute incompetence. And, the fact that this belonged to David Hall at some point does not help.

Chances are, the people looking at these, know less than you and I and about 50% of this board, about vintage cards. Just because they are grading cards does not make them an expert. They may have been doing this for only a few weeks or months, who really knows.

Many things can come out of a grading submission that will make you really shake your head, both good and bad. So yes, consistency is an issue. Take ten-twenty cards with the same numerical grade from the many years(decades) of grading and you will see a wide variance of appearances.

[swarmee]

Assuming that it is the same card and that PSA cert # system follows actual numerical order, then the card went from AA, to a 5 to a 4.
The 90M number precedes the other two. The earliest PSA flips used odd number jumping for the cert numbers, but had those distinctive rounded corners on the flip. The AA was next, then the 5.

[horzverti]

The 90M number precedes the other two. The earliest PSA flips used odd number jumping for the cert numbers, but had those distinctive rounded corners on the flip. The AA was next, then the 5.

Ah, I see. Thanks for the clarification. Does anyone know why PSA skip numbered certs?

[swarmee]

Ah, I see. Thanks for the clarification. Does anyone know why PSA skip numbered certs?
Some regions were set aside for when they do grading away from California, some for regions where their PSA/DNA autographed cards go. But at the beginning, they just weren't consistent. So a lot of the cards starting with 30M, 50M, 80M, 90M were all done like 20+ years ago, before they started going straight through the numbers. Once they got back to regions they already used, they had to skip them recently. Like three years ago or so, they were at 29,999,999 and then had to skip over their previously used region and started back at like 30,700,000 or whatever. Then they had to skip at 40M and will have to again at 50M, right around now. So they are filling in the gaps.

[horzverti]

Some regions were set aside for when they do grading away from California, some for regions where their PSA/DNA autographed cards go. But at the beginning, they just weren't consistent. So a lot of the cards starting with 30M, 50M, 80M, 90M were all done like 20+ years ago, before they started going straight through the numbers. Once they got back to regions they already used, they had to skip them recently. Like three years ago or so, they were at 29,999,999 and then had to skip over their previously used region and started back at like 30,700,000 or whatever. Then they had to skip at 40M and will have to again at 50M, right around now. So they are filling in the gaps.

Thanks for the explanation John.