Where have you gone Joe DiMaggio?

[Casey2296]

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Where have you gone, Joe DiMaggio?
Our nation turns its lonely eyes to you

What's that you say, Mrs. Robinson?
Joltin’ Joe has left and gone away
Hey, hey, hey

-Simon & Garfunkel- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_C2vqI9FVwg&list=RD9C1BCAgu2I8&index=12


That card.

We all have that card, you know the one that was just out of reach when you were a kid building up your collection. A Saturday trip to the local card shop to behold what new treasures had arrived from unknown ports of call. As you entered, your eye immediately went to the sealed glass case, elevated a little higher than all the surrounding cases and lit up like a Ministers pulpit on a sunny Sunday morning that contained “the fancy stuff”. The Crown Jewels within that case contained the same cards we fight over today at elevated prices, Cracker Jacks, Goudeys, 52 Topps, 51 Bowman, Cobbs, Mantles, Ruths, Gehrigs etc. and in my particular case the 1941 Play Ball Joe Dimaggio.

You see, those other cards might as well have been the Gutenberg Bible or an original Declaration of Independence with the meager budget I had to work with but that 41 Dimaggio seemed within reach, but just.
Except every time I went into that shop armed with my hard earned war chest to make an offer the price seemed to have gone up just a little higher. “Sorry Kid, I’m gonna need a little more for that card, "It's Iconic you know".

Ya, ya I know…

So I came to terms with not acquiring Joltin’ Joe for my collection much like that cheerleader that would never go out with me after repeated failed attempts to convince her otherwise. Eh, who needs ya’, the damn card is always off center, the color can be anywhere between purple and the color of my then burgundy corduroy pants and the registration crew seems to have taken lunch early when the 41 Play Ball card #71 was being printed. Besides, who needs an East Coaster any way, we have the great Willie Mays out here, (although I always found it ironic that Joe was a New York transplant from San Francisco and Willie was a San Francisco transplant from New York). But I’ll be damned if I didn’t see that card on every card collecting publication, card show flyer, card shop golden case, ad nauseum. An image following me around, haunting me like a dark shadow slowly whispering into my ear "It's Iconic you know".

Ya, ya, I know…

After I got back into collecting and built my list of 300 I pondered whether I even wanted the Yankee Clipper on that list what with our history and all, but decided eh, what the hell. I set a budget for that card and looked for a decent example in my price range. A feeling immediately came over me, a lot like returning to an abusive relationship. All the available examples seemed just out of reach of the budget I set, the condition of the examples in my budget range were horrible, and of course there were a couple of zeros added to current pricing just to twist the knife a little bit. I just laughed and figured I was never meant to have that card, but out of sheer stubbornness I kept him on my list and would not budge off my price or condition requirements, after all "It's Iconic you know".

Ya, ya, I know…

So a few months back as I was on a late night sniping mission in Shillsville (pwcc) looking to add to my Goudey checklist and getting shot down on multiple cards, out of the corner of my eye up pops Mr. Coffee 1941 hisself. “Hello Joe…” said with begrudging respect one reserves for a former enemy or a certain postal worker on Seinfeld. Looked at the time: ending in 9 minutes 37 seconds, the current bid: which was exactly at my long-held budget limit, and the condition: a decently centered VG 4, good color and registration, nothing fancy just a nice working man’s example. So, I went above my allotted budget by $100 simply out of spite and placed a bid assuming the pwcc minions would run it well past my bid.

Except, that didn’t happen, not one single solitary bid in the next 9 minutes, nothing. Just like Old Lodge Skins walking unseen through the ranks of the Seventh Calvary in the movie Little Big Man. Turmoil all around but not one single additional bid on that card. Then it was over, I won. A victory tantamount to sitting at the dinner table and hearing my big brother say “go ahead, you can have the big piece of chicken”. Things like that just didn’t happen. But it did.

I guess it was finally time for Joe and I to make up after all these years and even though it cost me $100 premium over my budget I felt a peaceful, serene, sense of closure regarding that particular card. After all, "It's Iconic you know"...

Welcome Home Joe, its been a long time.

Wishing Leon and all the net54 members a Happy & Prosperous New Year, quite an amazing group of collectors in this place.
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[cannonballsun]

Beautiful card and great story.

[rjackson44]

God bless enjoy

[hcv123]

and an even better story! Thanks for sharing. Happy, Healthy New Year!

[icurnmedic]

Nice!!

[Throttlesteer]

Congrats, that 41' PB is a nice looking Joe D.

[DeanH3]

Congrats Phil. Great write up. It really is such a tough card to find with all those qualities you mentioned. Now enjoy that victory lap and snicker at the past events that kept that card from you. After all, "It's iconic you know!" :)

[charlietheexterminator]

Nice story and congratulations on a truly nice looking Joe D...

[ASF123]

Except every time I went into that shop armed with my hard earned war chest to make an offer the price seemed to have gone up just a little higher. “Sorry Kid, I’m gonna need a little more for that card, "It's Iconic you know".Dealer sounds like kind of a dick. Glad you finally got the last laugh!

[Case12]

Bet you have already forgotten that $100 bucks! :-)

[tonyo]

Well written and a good read. keep 'em coming!

I love that card too, made me pull out my version... pleasantly surprised that it's in better shape than I remembered!

[Peter_Spaeth]

According to Paul Simon, he was writing about Mantle, HIS hero, but it didn't work as a song.

This song, meant to be about DiMaggio, is a classic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evB-nXLElZs

Joe, Joe DiMaggio
We want you on our side

[CobbSpikedMe]

Awesome Phil! Glad you got it finally.

[jb67]

Great story along with a great looking card. Well done and congrats.

[Eric72]

That was one of the most pleasant experiences I've had reading a post during this utterly insane year. Everything going on around me faded well into the background as your story drew me in. Thank you for a well written contribution to the forum. Congratulations on the tremendous pickup.

Best regards,

Eric

[doug.goodman]

Nice one

[Bigdaddy]

Thank you for the story Phil, and very nice card to boot. Always a rush when you finally acquire a card that you've been chasing for a lifetime.

[brianp-beme]

[QUOTE=Peter_Spaeth;2051192]According to Paul Simon, he was writing about Mantle, HIS hero, but it didn't work as a song.[QUOTE]

"Where have you gone, Mickey Mantle" wouldn't quite work, because not only was he still an active ballplayer when the song was written, but his last name just doesn't jingle-jangle along like 'DiMaggio'. Perhaps if his last name were instead 'Mantilo'. As in "Where have you gone, Mickey Mantilo"

Brian (always looking for reasons to change HOF player's last names)

[FrankWakefield]

Sounds like Joe has found a good home. I like the story, I like the idea of that story being associated with that card as long as you have it. Congratulations to both you and Joe. You two have a safe 2021.

[Kaneen]

[QUOTE=Peter_Spaeth;2051192]According to Paul Simon, he was writing about Mantle, HIS hero, but it didn't work as a song.[QUOTE]

"Where have you gone, Mickey Mantle" wouldn't quite work, because not only was he still an active ballplayer when the song was written, but his last name just doesn't jingle-jangle along like 'DiMaggio'. Perhaps if his last name were instead 'Mantilo'. As in "Where have you gone, Mickey Mantilo"

Brian (always looking for reasons to change HOF player's last names)

Or perhaps Mickey Manilow...Barry's older, more athletic brother. :D

[judgebuck]

Great story. This is the kind of story and post that I believe most of us appreciate and would enjoy reading more like it. And what a beautiful card!

David

[h2oya311]

Thanks for sharing! What a great story and a great card! Most of us on this forum are quite blessed. It’s easy to forget that sometimes, even with the madness of 2020.

Way to make lemonade out of lemons!

[tedzan]

Great story Phil....and a nice looking 1941 Play Ball card of Joe D.

If you don't mind....here's a furthermore to.... " Where have you gone Joe DiMaggio ? ".

Joe DiMaggio originally did not want his name in the lyrics of the Simon and Garfunkel 1967 song, "Mrs. Robinson".
However, it is reported that Joe's agent convinced Joe that it might be good for Joe's publicity. Joe, finally agreed; but, Joe did not
want his name associated with the movie "The Graduate". The version of the song Mrs. Robinson, sung by Simon and Garfunkel in
the movie, did not to include "Joe DiMaggio where....."


" Where have you gone Joe DiMaggio ? "......this were exactly my thoughts in the years that followed after the Spring of 1949, when I opened up a
red-white-blue LEAF wax-pack and saw this card. Us kids never saw another Joe D card in the 1949, 1950, or 1951 BOWMAN sets, or 1951 TOPPS.


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/websize/1949LEAFJoeDiMaggio50.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/websize/1949LEAFJoeDiMaggio50b.jpg



TED Z

T206 Reference ( http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=237816)
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[Peter_Spaeth]

Ted are you sure about that, that's not how I remember the movie, and a quick google search doesn't reveal anything beyond Joe asking Paul Simon when he met him why he had asked where he had gone.

From Paul Simon himself:
The song asks "Where have you gone, Joe DiMaggio?" then immediately answers itself "Joltin' Joe has left and gone away." The former New York Yankee and three-time MVP was puzzled by the lines, and he told Simon just that when they happened to meet. Paul Simon wrote of the encounter and conversation in a New York Times article marking DiMaggio's passing in 1999:

"What I don't understand," [DiMaggio] said, "is why you ask where I've gone. I just did a Mr. Coffee commercial, I'm a spokesman for the Bowery Savings Bank and I haven't gone anywhere."

I said that I didn't mean the lines literally, that I thought of him as an American hero and that genuine heroes were in short supply. He accepted the explanation and thanked me. We shook hands and said good night.

[tedzan]

Hi PeterTed are you sure about that, that's not how I remember the movie, and a quick google search doesn't reveal anything beyond Joe asking Paul Simon when he met him why he had asked where he had gone.


Peter.....I advise you to see the movie again. I'll bet you that the "Joe D." lyrics are not sung it .

The song "Mrs. Robinson" was composed by Paul Simon in 1967 (initially and specifically for the movie "The Graduate".

The chance meeting you are alluding to of Simon and DiMaggio occurred at a New York restaurant 1970's. I am well aware of it.

https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/websize/bowerybankdimaggio_1.jpg . https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/websize/1972JoeDiMaggioBoweryBb.jpg


TED Z
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[Peter_Spaeth]

Hi Peter

Peter.....I advise you to see the movie again. I'll bet you that the "Joe D." lyrics are not sung it .

The song "Mrs. Robinson" was composed by Paul Simon in 1967 (initially and specifically for the movie "The Graduate".

The chance meeting you are alluding to of Simon and DiMaggio occurred at a New York restaurant 1970's. I am well aware of it.

https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/websize/bowerybankdimaggio_1.jpg . https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/websize/1972JoeDiMaggioBoweryBb.jpg


TED Z
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https://www.shmoop.com/study-guides/music/mrs-robinson/meaning

According to this, the song was originally called Mrs. Roosevelt, and wasn't written for the movie. But in any event, has anyone here seen it recently enough to settle the question of the lyrics in the film?

[JollyElm]

Here's the full songfacts.com listing for the tune. A pretty cool site...

This was written for the movie The Graduate, starring Anne Bancroft as Mrs. Robinson, a middle-aged woman who seduces the much younger Dustin Hoffman. Bancroft, who died in 2005, had a long and successful film career, but is best known for her part in this movie.
Regarding the famous line, "Where have you gone Joe DiMaggio?": DiMaggio was a star baseball player for the New York Yankees who was briefly married to Marilyn Monroe. Simon was using him to represent heroes of the past. DiMaggio was a little miffed when he heard this, since he was still very much alive even though he retired from baseball in 1951, but he realized that he had become a new icon now with the baby boomer generation due to this song's success.

Simon, who is a huge fan of The Yankees, explained in a 1990 interview with SongTalk magazine: "The Joe DiMaggio line was written right away in the beginning. And I don't know why or where it came from. It seems so strange, like it didn't belong in that song and then, I don't know, it was so interesting to us that we just kept it. So it's one of the most well-known lines that I've ever written."
Paul Simon was a much bigger fan of Mickey Mantle than Joe DiMaggio. On The Dick Cavett Show, Simon was asked by Mantle why he wasn't mentioned in the song instead of DiMaggio. Simon replied, "It's about syllables, Mick. It's about how many beats there are."
When DiMaggio died in 1999, it was a very emotional event for many baseball fans who grew up watching him play. The part of this song that mentions him summed of the feelings of many people who felt there was no one left to look up to. Simon wrote an editorial about DiMaggio in The New York Times shortly after his death.
Simon began writing this as "Mrs. Roosevelt," and had just the line, "Here's to you, Mrs. Roosevelt" when he changed it to "Mrs. Robinson" for The Graduate.

Eleanor Roosevelt was a likely influence on the song. Some of the lyrics support this theory:

We'd like to help you learn to help yourself
Look around you, all you see are sympathetic eyes

Going to the candidates debate
Laugh about it, shout about it
When you've got to choose
Every way you look at it, you lose

Roosevelt was a female rights and black rights activist, always helping everyone but herself during the Great Depression. A lot of the time she seemed to have been running the country as much as FDR, but never would have actually won the presidency because she was female. >>

When Mike Nichols was making The Graduate, he used three existing Simon & Garfunkel songs as placeholders: "The Sound of Silence," "Scarborough Fair / Canticle" and "April Come She Will." He was hoping that Paul Simon would write some original songs for the film, but touring and work on an upcoming album left him drained. Nichols decided to use these placeholder songs, but really wanted a new song to serve as the soundtrack.

Art Garfunkel had heard Simon working on "Mrs. Roosevelt," and mentioned this to Nichols, who realized the title had the same number of syllables as "Mrs. Robinson." Desperate for a song, Nichols asked Simon to change it to "Mrs. Robinson" and write the rest of it. Simon decided to give it a shot.
According to Art Garfunkel, this song may never have been recorded had it not been for The Graduate director Mike Nichols, who asked the duo for songs for his film. Garfunkel said that at the time, the tune was "A trifle song we were about to throw out," but when Nichols heard this early version, he heard something in it and asked Simon to adapt it for the film.

"His intelligence allowed him to hang loose and make all these different, fabulous choices," Garfunkel said of Nichols, who died in 2014. Nichols directed Garfunkel in the 1971 movie Carnal Knowledge. (source of quote: Entertainment Weekly)
This would have had a good chance to win an Oscar for Best Song From A Movie, but it was never nominated because Simon & Garfunkel never filled out the forms to get it considered, leaving "Talk To The Animals" from Doctor Dolittle as the winner. Simon explained, "It was the '60s, we just weren't paying attention." It took 35 years, but Simon finally was nominated for an Oscar in 2003 for his song "Father And Daughter," which was used in The Wild Thornberry's Movie.
According to a "making of" feature on The Graduate DVD, Paul Simon did not originally write a full-length version of this song, only the verses that are heard in the movie. After the movie became a hit, he finished the lyrics and recorded the full version that is known today.
This song won the 1968 Grammy Award for Record of the Year. The award was first given out in 1959, and in the '60s, songs like "Moon River" and "I Left My Heart in San Francisco" won the award. "Mrs. Robinson" was the first Record of the Year with ties to rock music.
Many top session musicians recorded with Simon & Garfunkel, including drummer Hal Blaine, who played on this and considers it one of his favorites.

Speaking with Mail on Sunday's Event magazine, Garfunkel recalled: "We tightened the harmonies, and it became something very appealing. I remember walking into the studio, with Hal Blaine playing congas, Larry Knetchel playing bass, and Paul playing terrific, chugga-chugga rhythm guitar, all around one microphone.

I tiptoed into the control room to check that we were recording, and started getting very excited, thinking, this has got it! It swings like a mutha."
The American group The Lemonheads did a popular cover of this song in 1992 that went to #8 on the Modern Rock chart and introduced the song to many in Generation X (it also hit #19 on the UK Singles chart). The Lemonheads were asked to record the song for the 25th anniversary release of The Graduate, prompting frontman Evan Dando to comment, "Some people, probably wearing Italian shoes, said, 'Hmmm, we need to get The Graduate out to more of a flannel-wearing kind of audience."

Dando would later say, "I'm more proud of my own songs than the version of 'Mrs. Robinson,' which frankly I can take or leave – mostly leave." He refused to perform the song except under duress when sufficiently cajoled by his record company. His disdainful attitude toward the song was a protection mechanism of sorts to keep credibility with his core audience, who loathed anything reeking of corporate influence. "For the longest time, I couldn't believe we did it, and a lot of our fans were disappointed that we put that out," he explained in a 2019 Songfacts interview. "They thought we were better than that, that we were kind of selling out."

Dando adjusted his attitude when the Lemonheads cover was used in the 2013 Martin Scorsese film The Wolf of Wall Street, earning him a nice royalty check. "I thought, If it's in a Scorsese movie, it's finally making good for me," he told Songfacts. "I'm OK with it."
Frank Sinatra covered this on his 1969 album My Way. He changed the words, adding some of his own jive and making reference to the movie The Graduate.
This features in the 2005 romantic comedy Rumor Has It, which has Jennifer Aniston wondering if grandma Shirley MacLaine is the inspiration behind the famous character from The Graduate.
In the 1994 movie Forrest Gump, this plays as Forrest receives the Medal of Honor for his service in the Vietnam War.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Ted I think you're wrong I just watched this You Tube video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDlAMjM-77Y

But maybe this is using the later album track as background I don't know?

In any event it's a great lyric and a great song. Their third best song according to one famous critic's list (mine) but it could fairly be called their best.

[tedzan]

Peter

I saw the "The Graduate" in 1967 when it first showcased in the movie theatres. And, I've seen it again on TV. In neither case did the "Joe D." lyrics in the theme song were included.

The song "Mrs. Robinson" with the "Joe D." lyrics in it first hit the airwaves in Feb. 1968.

Did you see it in 1967 ?
I don't know what you are seeing (or hearing). But, if it's in it, then the music has been dubbed in (edited in, or whatever) since the original movie of 1967.


TED Z
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[brianp-beme]

After a brief search on the internet it seems like the song was only featured as an instrumental in the movie? If so, still a great movie without a Joltin' Joe.


Brian

[Peter_Spaeth]

Peter

I saw the "The Graduate" in 1967 when it first showcased in the movie theatres. And, I've seen it again on TV. In neither case did the "Joe D." lyrics in the theme song were included.

The song "Mrs. Robinson" with the "Joe D." lyrics in it first hit the airwaves in Feb. 1968.

Did you see it in 1967 ?
I don't know what you are seeing (or hearing). But, if it's in it, then the music has been dubbed in (edited in, or whatever) since the original movie of 1967.


TED Z
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Ted as I mentioned they may have used the album track as background for the clips from the movie on the YouTube video.

[brianp-beme]

More fun internet digging and it appears that the song was featured three times, twice as instrumental, and the 3rd and final time as Mrs. Robinson calls the police, this time with lyrics, but only the main verse.

Somebody please watch movie and report back if this is correct! The world awaits...

Brian

[tedzan]

Ted as I mentioned they may have used the album track as background for the clips from the movie on the YouTube video.

Peter

This is discussion is is becoming ridiculous. I asked you if you saw the original movie in 1967....and, you did not reply !

I'm signing off.

Have a Happy New Year.


TED Z
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[Peter_Spaeth]

Peter

This is discussion is is becoming ridiculous. I asked you if you saw the original movie in 1967....and, you did not reply !

I'm signing off.

Have a Happy New Year.


TED Z
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Ted I probably saw it a few years after that. Happy New Year to you as well.

[brianp-beme]

And here's to you, Mrs. Robinson, the old year has left and gone away.

Happy New Years everyone!

Brian

[brianp-beme]

By the way, nice card and better story

Brian (to get thread back on track...sorry for all my efforts in the derailment).

[Yoda]

Phil, you were meant to have the Joe D. card; it was blissful fate. Great story.

[samosa4u]

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So a few months back as I was on a late night sniping mission in Shillsville (pwcc)
.

Shillsville! Love it!

[Casey2296]

By the way, nice card and better story

Brian (to get thread back on track...sorry for all my efforts in the derailment).

That was a fun derailment, like watching two good natured Grizzlies go at it.

[jb217676]

“I want to thank the good Lord for making me a Yankee.”
– Joe DiMaggio Day in 1949

Great story!

[Snapolit1]

Does not appear that the Joe D lyric was in movie to me.

QUOTE=tedzan;2051587]Peter

This is discussion is is becoming ridiculous. I asked you if you saw the original movie in 1967....and, you did not reply !

I'm signing off.

Have a Happy New Year.


TED Z
.[/QUOTE]

[brian1961]

While I'm glad Mr. Simon satisfied and ultimately pleased (or appeased) Mr. DiMaggio, I must say I would have gone with Mr. Simon's first choice, Mr. Mantle. Well over a decade ago, I had a go:

"Where have you gone, Mickey Mantle?

Our nation turns its lonely eyes to you --- wu, wu, wu.

What's that you say, Mrs. Robinson?

The Mighty Mick has left and gone away --- Oy Vey.

Oh woe!"

Now, if you know how to sing the first syllable of "Mantle" by extending it a tsch, "Mantle" works quite nicely. Sure, he had not retired at the time of the movie's creation, and I get that using Joe DiMaggio fit much better, having been gone a good 16 years hence, but now that it's 2021, and I'm a Mickey Mantle fan, well, must I speak more plainly?

Nevertheless, I applaud the Casey2296 for a brilliant post and a fine card to add to his collection. I also know what it means to hunt down a card for which I never thought I would own. I devoted chapter 13 of NEVER CHEAPER BY THE DOZEN to that singular quintessential occasion of a quintessential impossible dream card. Twas a cardboard cloud 9, from which I've never come down.

Cheers, my Net54 mates. --- Brian Powell

[Peter_Spaeth]

Does not appear that the Joe D lyric was in movie to me.

QUOTE=tedzan;2051587]Peter

This is discussion is is becoming ridiculous. I asked you if you saw the original movie in 1967....and, you did not reply !

I'm signing off.

Have a Happy New Year.


TED Z
.[/QUOTE]

OK, I must have been confusing the movie with the soundtrack album then. This round to Ted.