M113/M114 Walter Johnsons

[bcbgcbrcb]

I believe that Walter Johnson had two of the original larger-size versions (M113) of the Baseball Magazine premiums, one issued in 1913 and the other one issued in 1916. Does anyone have pics of either/both that they are able to post here?

Thank you in advance for any assistance provided.

[doug.goodman]

I have one of the m113s (I believe it to be the 1916 issue, and it might be my favorite of the m113s), and there are three m114 pictures that I know of, with one of those having a caption variation. Here they are :

[doug.goodman]

This is what I believe to be the 1913 m113 of Johnson, I do not own it (but I would like to - hint hint), but stole the scan from a 2006 REA auction (which confused the m113s with the m114s, and vice versa).

[Hankphenom]

Those are the two WaJo M114s, I believe. There are several different M113s.

[FrankWakefield]

Nice stuff, Doug.

I thought the 'Arm' was the M113. And the others were M114's.

But then I have no recollection of seeing that Baseball Magazine poster of Johnson in that sweater... That looks great!

[doug.goodman]

To clarify -

The throwing in the sweater is the 1913 m113 (my second reply))

The arm is the 1916 m113 (my first reply)

and the others are m114s (also my first reply)

[bcbgcbrcb]

Thank you so much, Doug. That was super helpful. One more quick question, the pitching pose with the solid dark background, do you know what year that one was first offered?

[Hankphenom]

Those are the two WaJo M114s, I believe. There are several different M113s.

I had the 13s and 14s reversed here, Oops. Anybody know how many different WaJo 114s there are?

[FrankWakefield]

Thank you, Sir, for the clarification. And your thoughts in the original post now seem obvious to me. Stay well everyone.

[doug.goodman]

Apologies guys that I hadn't noticed this thread for the last couple months.

Answers to questions :

Hank - those three m114 poses for Walter Johnson are all that I am aware of, and the two m113s makes five total.

Phil - I believe the dates of the three poses are 1957 for the DC caption, 1920 for the dark background, and 1951 for the bleachers background.

Doug

[doug.goodman]

Updating for the WJ m113 release dates.

I am attempting to compile a list of m113 release dates using ads from the magazine, I have already discovered discrepancies between the ads and the catalog listed dates.

Based on those ads, I put the release date as Sept 1912 for the "1913" version (the full body picture of WJ throwing).

I'm not sure about the "arm" version yet, as I am missing some issues of the magazine, and that one is not pictured, or specifically mentioned in any ads that I have access to. The catalog lists a 1916 release of the second WJ m113, but I am missing the following issues from 1915 thru 1917 :

1915 Feb, May, Aug, Dec
1916 Jan, Mar, Aug, Sep, Dec
1917 Feb, Dec

Due to the unique nature of the image I would expect it to be highlighted in an ad.

If anybody has access to any of those issues, I would be ingterested in buying / trading for them, or at the very least getting scans / pix of the poster ads.

Doug

[FrankWakefield]

Years ago I had access to 2 separate collections of Baseball Magazine. One gentleman had a bound set of the 1915 issues, and most all of them before that, and most of them on up into the mid 20's. The other gentleman had a pretty solid run from the early 20's on up into the late 50's, with a smattering afterwards.

It occurred to me to make copies of the premium ads, noting the dates, to try to fine tune and catalog the issue dates of the premiums. The latter gentleman, and at least two other collectors, politely suggested to me that it wouldn't yield reliable results. Separately, they all said the same thing... that some premiums would be advertised before they were available, and some were available before appearing in an ad. Worse, at least one guy thought that a few premiums were advertised yet never were available. So I bailed on the project. In hindsight I may well have not finished it.

I wish I had gone ahead with it, even if it yielded questionable results. So Doug, I wish you well with your efforts and goals. Regretfully, I lack those issues you've listed. If I find my bundle of ad copies I will see if that'll be any help.

As for the years listed in the Vintage Catalog, I was a bit doubtful about a few of those year determinations, but Mr. Lemke seemed confident of them but seemed that he'd consider evidence to the contrary.

[doug.goodman]

The latter gentleman, and at least two other collectors, politely suggested to me that it wouldn't yield reliable results. Separately, they all said the same thing... that some premiums would be advertised before they were available, and some were available before appearing in an ad. Worse, at least one guy thought that a few premiums were advertised yet never were available.

As for the years listed in the Vintage Catalog, I was a bit doubtful about a few of those year determinations, but Mr. Lemke seemed confident of them but seemed that he'd consider evidence to the contrary.

I don't disagree with the mentioned collectors, but I would posit that the first mention of a specific poster in the magazine would be a more logical and "more reliable" date of availability than any other.

As for Mr. Lemke he once wrote "In the cases of the Baseball Magazine posters and Sporting Life cabinets, the checklists were generated from advertising within the pages of those periodicals" and "The Baseball Magazine posters list in the Standard Catalog has been published unchanged for most, if not all, 20 editions of the book. Now, it appears, changes are in order."
http://boblemke.blogspot.com/2010/08/investigating-baseball-magazine-team.html

My plan is to do some much need housekeeping to the m113 (and possibly the m114) catalog. Because there are certainly some changes that are in order, starting with the 18 posters advertised, 16 which I know for a fact exist, with only 11 noted in the catalog for 1910 thru 1912.

We will of course never know if a poster was actually issued, until an example is found, but that's another thing I'm working on.

Doug

[akleinb611]

Doug:

Let me know when you find Vic Saier!!

Alan

[doug.goodman]

Doug:

Let me know when you find Vic Saier!!

Alan

Well, we know that he exists because of this picture that you sent me...