So I walked into a card store today, and was puzzled by...

[luciobar1980]

So I walk into a card store today. I’ll leave it unnamed, but it’s in the Pacific Northwest if that makes any difference. Pretty small shop, one case of some vintage. It was kind of strange. He had a really beat up 52 Mantle in the center of the case, and a 39 Play Ball DiMaggio, but then all around it there wasn’t a single card over $100. The mantle wasn’t priced but he did say he had gotten offers of $10,000 and turned it down. They both certainly looked real but it was kind of strange that besides those 2 cards everything else was pretty much under $50. Anyways, that’s not really the point of my story.

I asked him if he had any higher end vintage around. He basically told me nahhh, “that stuff is dying off”. I was like hmm, what do you mean by that exactly? He went on to explain that vintage is really dead, nobody is really interested in it anymore. He said most collectors were older, already had all the cards they needed, and the younger generation didn’t care about vintage. He also vaguely told me how, as an example, pretty much all Willie Mays cards go for like $20, or something like that. I didn’t really inquire beyond that despite being morbidly curious. It was strange. This guy owns a card shop and thinks vintage is dead? He made it seem like Mays cards that used to be very valuable can now be pretty much picked up very cheap. I didn’t feel like getting into a discussion about it, so I pretty much played the dumb “I used to collect cards as a kid” role. I know you’re reading my vague second-hand story, but can anyone venture and explanation as what this guy was talking about or why he would say that??

[pokerplyr80]

Maybe this guy doesn't go online much, or at the least he doesn't search ebay for vintage listings or visit online auction sites. And the people who walk into his shop are more interest in modern cards.

The last local shop I walked into (in OC) the owner seemed pretty knowledgable but said he sells anything higher end online, not in the shop. He gave me a card with his ebay ID on it.

[Casey2296]

Welcome to an underfunded small business. He just gave you that line to save face. I would imagine it takes a huge capital investment to play card dealer nowadays.

Best thing to do? Next time you're in there buy something from him. Don't try to negotiate, and tell him you've been looking for that card for years.

You'll both feel better.

[oldeboo]

The whole industry is hot, but I think the modern stuff is very very hot. You look at prices of cards made in the last 2 or 3 years and they are nuts. It's not uncommon to see rookies of recent players selling easily in excess of 10K. There is just more demand for modern players that people can relate to and watch play currently. The margins are probably much larger with the new stuff as well from a business perspective, heck of a lot more risk as well. You look at eBay listings and a generic search I did shows 6.3 million modern cards, 1.3 million post-war, and 45k pre-war. Sure, some of that modern includes junk wax and these numbers are a representation of availability, but they say something. I don't think it's a stretch to say that there is more money in the ultra modern stuff whether we like it or not. Vintage cards are a bit of a niche and not mainstream in my opinion. With that said, I have no interest in the modern stuff like many here.

[ronniehatesjazz]

I think this isn't as uncommon as we'd like to believe. When I lived in Dallas a few years back there were maybe 7-8 shops in the metroplex and pretty much all of them catered to the newer stuff... more volume and the prices are sadly not that much different than vintage. The oldest cards I could come across were 50's-60's and they were always low end mantles, mays, etc. Occasionally, I'd come across a few decent prewar cards but it was rare outside of the monthly show that was humorously at the "Southfork" Hotel... Great shows nonetheless and always some nice vintage items.

I think when it comes to the older stuff it's usually best to deal with other collectors at shows or online. TBH, outside of my interest in vintage, if I owned a shop I would be doing the same thing. So much easier to move cases of prizm and zion rainbows lol than sitting on a 55 clemente for months until a collector of means and knowledge walks in and pays you a fair price. That being said, I live in Cincinnati now and there is an amazing shop that caters to all but it's a rarity.

[cardsagain74]

The local longtime shop where I recently lived (big city) catered plenty to modern, but he also told me "I can never keep hall-of-famers in the case".

And that was just before the covid boom, no less

[Rich Klein]

[QUOTE=ronniehatesjazz;2037870]I think this isn't as uncommon as we'd like to believe. When I lived in Dallas a few years back there were maybe 7-8 shops in the metroplex and pretty much all of them catered to the newer stuff... more volume and the prices are sadly not that much different than vintage. The oldest cards I could come across were 50's-60's and they were always low end mantles, mays, etc. Occasionally, I'd come across a few decent prewar cards but it was rare outside of the monthly show that was humorously at the "Southfork" Hotel... Great shows nonetheless and always some nice vintage items.

Hey that was MY show at the "Southfork" Hotel. Glad you enjoyed coming to them ;)

Rich

[conor912]

You can’t totally blame him. First, I know plenty of vintage dealers who don’t know the first thing about modern stuff. I don't see any difference. Second, he’s catering to his clients. I’m sure as far as the demand from his customers goes, vintage is dead. If people kept coming in asking for T206s, guess what his case would be filled with? Now would it serve him as a dealer to be at least somewhat versed in other parts of the hobby? Absolutely, but there are plenty of hacks in every industry who do just fine.

[GasHouseGang]

A local shop here is sort of the same way. They also sell comics to help make ends meet. I've talked to the owner several times. He's a nice older gentleman that used to deal in much more vintage. Now he has one small case with some 50's and 60's. He said they just don't have people wanting to buy the older cards. I think I'm the only one I've seen looking at the cards in the vintage case. Everyone that comes in wants the latest boxes of the hot cards, the newest comic, or one of the rainbow refractors of the newest rookie.

[todeen]

You have a bunch of new/returning collectors who want to buy the players they see on tv. They might not have experience with players whose cards start high, then steadily decrease in price over the years as newer phenoms are introduced (Ichiro, Pujols, Griffey, Arod, Bonds). As these newbies gain experience and see "value" of their collection depreciate, they will eventually realize why other collectors buy vintage: cards have stopped losing value, remain stable, or prices steadily increase. My LCS has three rooms of cards, yet just one case of vintage. He can't get vintage as easily as he can obtain newer product, and so it appears as if he caters to vintage. My other LCS doesn't sell cards at all, I don't even know how he remains open selling 400ct boxes, holders, and binders. But he must have plenty of business - he's been open 20 years.

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[Luke]

I have an idea I might know who this is. I might be wrong, it might be another card shop owner. There are always some angles that are harder to see as a customer. A local card shop owner I know used to have an incredible group of vintage cases, and then one night he was robbed and lost hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of cards. It broke his heart, and his vintage cases never had anything special in them after that.

Most card shops that have managed to stay open have put a lot of effort and store space into gaming cards and catering to that customer. If you're mostly a baseball card shop, it would certainly make sense to have some old cards, but if baseball is like your 5th most popular offering, keeping older, hard to source cards around might not be a big priority.

[Exhibitman]

I don't blame the LCS owners. It is impossible to be expert in everything.

Successful LCS's basically thrive on sales of new unopened product, box breaks of unopened products, and sales of single cards from newer product that they break down in-house and retail. They will price the 2020 Topps Doohickymajig refractor properly but they guess at everything else and often are so busy dealing with the volume of sales and material needed to make a go of modern that they will sell a rare card without researching it, which can be dangerous with a BIN on eBay. Case in point: shortly before COVID, my LCS came across some 1961 Bell Brand Lakers on a walk-in, including a West and a Baylor. For those who don't know the issue, these are painfully rare, very early cards of West and Baylor, and are coveted and extremely valuable to California regional and basketball collectors; in 2014 a West w/o the coupon sold for $5,000 in an H & S auction. In today's basketball market I have little doubt it would be a $10,000 card. He listed them for sale on eBay with BINs at about 10%-15% of actual value, they sold instantly, and he was none the wiser until I asked him WTF he was thinking. Left at least $10,000-$15,000 on the table.

[Throttlesteer]

I'm in the same general area as the OP. Im unfamiliar with the shop, but I would question whether the Mantle and Teddy are legit given the owner's feedback. Those are two iconic cards in a pool of low $ modern. I guess its possible theyre conversation pieces.

[ClementeFanOh]

Lucio- I collect comics as well, and am lucky to be 30 minutes away from a phenomenal brick and mortar "mom and pop" comic store. The owner is a subject matter expert who knows his livelihood depends on knowledge of his chosen field of sale. This store has gotten my business for THIRTY years. I actually look for and "root" for the small business owner, but that mindset assumes the owner knows what he is talking about (and shows a little passion for the field, right?) I wouldn't have been mean to him, but I would have had zero qualms about walking away- and making a mental note not to do business with him in the future. Trent King

[yanks87]

Must be in Washington, if it isn't gold stamped, shiny and sparkly there are very few shops in Oregon that carry "the dying/dead stuff." That being said, the gruff comments sound very much like a couple guys here in Oregon, especially coupled with the over inflated "I've had offers" comment. One of my favorites.

[Throttlesteer]

the over inflated "I've had offers" comment. One of my favorites.

Yep, reminds me of Mr. Shotwell Ruth. Red flag!

[MCyganik]

I think if you have a brick and mortar card shop these days and you're not using it as a front for eBay or card breaks or have a verrrrrry loyal customer base, you may definitely be out of the loop on how people value vintage vs. modern.

Vintage collectors know what they want. There's no randomness to vintage. No pack-pulling hoping for a '52 Mantle and no hoping for some kind of '52 Mantle 1/1 Superfractor Auto. Most vintage collectors set a goal toward a player, a set, or a specific card and either save money to buy it via eBay or major auction house, or buy singles via eBay. Most of the time they want it graded. Occasionally if they are looking for commons to build a set, they'll go to a large card show (pre-Covid) but they know their specific needs are almost always never going to show up in some random picked over card store. Wandering into a brick and mortar store, they are more likely to find overpriced, ungraded singles that are "easier" to find on eBay.

Vintage collectors tend to be older yes, but I've seen many collectors my age (35) who have been around the hobby long enough get bored with the newer cards and start investing/chasing vintage. Who knows if vintage will increase forever, but it has shown to be a fairly safe investment vs. always chasing the next Trout on a SSSP card.

Card stores that don't stay up on the latest trends and cater to the modern clientele with breaks, high end new releases etc are the ones that tend to turn to comics, games, toys etc to make ends meet because their highest yielding clients at that point are parents who bring their kids in because they don't know what to buy online and the kids are too young/random to verbalize specific wants in the hobby for moms to find online. And kids certainly aren't looking for an overpriced, sun-faded 1960 Topps Wally Moon for their collection.

[cardsagain74]

Is there this lack of "in person" interest in vintage at card shows nowadays too?

All of this sounds the same as when I was setting up at shows while in high school during the junk wax era. If you had cards like a '59 Al Kaline in the case, they would sit forever (unless you marked it way down. People were only chasing after '87 Fleer Will Clark and all the '90 Kevin Maas cards.

With how strong and liquid the market is online for vintage, I assumed that this had changed some. Doesn't sound like it though

[conor912]

So Occasionally if they are looking for commons to build a set, they'll go to a large card show (pre-Covid) but they know their specific needs are almost always never going to show up in some random picked over card store.

TBH, it’s gotten to the point where even walking into a vintage heavy show, I know finding the card I want in the grade I want for the price I want is highly unlikely.

[bobbyw8469]

TBH, it’s gotten to the point where even walking into a vintage heavy show, I know finding the card I want in the grade I want for the price I want is highly unlikely.

^^^^ This ^^^^

[Mike D.]

Vintage makes so much more sense online...why buy the best value T206 or Mantle within 20 miles of you when you can buy the best value one anywhere in the country (or beyond)?

A LCS dealing in mostly unopened modern has more in common with a hardware store (order product from manufacturer or distributor, mark up, sell, pay rent, repeat) than with someone selling vintage on eBay.

I guess if they’re breaking boxes to sell singles the analogy breaks down...no randomly inserted “gold 1/1” nails mixed in with the regular ones. :)

[abothebear]

The three shops near where I used to live were similar to what you described in some ways. Having talked to the owners, I have a few theories, some have already been mentioned. Vintage cards are found in the full range of conditions (whereas modern cards are near the high end of the grade scale or else they aren't in the market). All three of the shop owners priced their vintage cards at HBV. No one was going to pay HBV for those cards. The one guy who I'd say was the most market knowledgeable had a sign with his to make an offer. But it is hard to make an offer 75% off the HBV with a straight face. So any vintage buyers are going to buy from ebay where they can get a real time market price aligned with the condition rather than these shops. If the knowledgeable guy had a card come in that was of a quality that would fetch HBV, he would sell it on ebay, not in his case. The other side of it is that if they did take the time to figure out what the market price of what they had was, they could probably move them, but they weren't the kind of shops that could spend the time to replenish their vintage supply at costs they could then profit from.

Now, the one thing that one of the shops had going for it was that he had a bid board, so collectors could bring in their stuff and put it on the bid board for a small consignment fee. That was fun to check out every week because you could get vintage stuff there at a good price. Very rarely anything pre-war. And nothing major, but I remember one week getting a bunch of 1968 Topps stars for $27.

[Tyruscobb]

I fear that demographics may severely affect vintage’s supply and demand equilibrium over the next 10 years and tank prices. We are potentially at the peak. Baby boomers are the reason.

Unfortunately, over the next 10 years, baby boomer deaths will significantly increase. Their heirs will liquidate collections and flood the market. This will increase the supply side. This is inevitable.

The question is whether the demand side will have enough buyers to support price levels. Right now, baby boomers are primarily supporting the demand side. They are retired and have nice disposable income levels. Baby boomers are buying legends, such as Mantle, Mays, Aaron, etc., they grew up watching and legends, such as DiMaggio, Ruth, Williams, etc., their fathers grew up watching and telling them about.

So, will the next generation have this same love of vintage to support prices?

[cardsagain74]

I fear that demographics may severely affect vintage’s supply and demand equilibrium over the next 10 years and tank prices. We are potentially at the peak. Baby boomers are the reason.

Unfortunately, over the next 10 years, baby boomer deaths will significantly increase. Their heirs will liquidate collections and flood the market. This will increase the supply side. This is inevitable.

The question is whether the demand side will have enough buyers to support price levels. Right now, baby boomers are primarily supporting the demand side. They are retired and have nice disposable income levels. Baby boomers are buying legends, such as Mantle, Mays, Aaron, etc., they grew up watching and legends, such as DiMaggio, Ruth, Williams, etc., their fathers grew up watching and telling them about.

So, will the next generation have this same love of vintage to support prices?

My generation may have loved baseball cards (and baseball) during our '80s childhood almost as much as the boomers in the '50s. So, once we are retired with that disposable income factor, I'm hoping that enough of us are still interested in vintage, at least post-war anyway (in the same manner as many of the boomers here love their T 206s and Goudeys today).

But not long after I was a kid, the landscape changed, and football and basketball became the American pasttimes. So once my gen X is gone, I'm not sure if Mantle, Aaron, and Mays will still stay so prevalent

[nat]

The comment about the boomers is exactly right. There's no way that post-war prices stay as high as they are, long term. Baseball card prices are driven, in large part, by nostalgia, and when the people who are nostalgic for Mantle can just watch the guy playing on the other side of the pearly gates, that force driving prices is going to crater. The post-war market will come to resemble the pre-war market, which of course still has its high points, but doesn't have the force of nostalgia driving it.

As for card shops: I suspect that selling unopened modern is just an easier way to go. It's basically just a commodity. You can get a pretty good sense of how much product you're going to move each month, you put in an order for that much from Topps, and you've got a predictable income stream. Selling vintage is more work (you've got to hunt down collections that you can profitably flip), and much less predictable. If whether or not I eat next month depended on how many cards I sell, I could totally see ignoring vintage.

[steve B]

Welcome to an underfunded small business. He just gave you that line to save face. I would imagine it takes a huge capital investment to play card dealer nowadays.

Best thing to do? Next time you're in there buy something from him. Don't try to negotiate, and tell him you've been looking for that card for years.

You'll both feel better.

Or he sized the OP up as an older guy who would potentially offload some vintage cheap if he was told that stuff wasn't worth anything.

There used to be a lot of guys who would run stuff down to try buying it cheap.
"I can buy a bunch of those for X =50% less than priced"
"Those aren't worth anything, I have hundreds I can't sell for half that"

Ok then, go buy those cheaper ones and I'll buy them for double what you paid. Or- Ok then, bring them to me, I'll buy them.

Funny, the supply of the identical item for very little suddenly doesn't exist.

[todeen]

I fear that demographics may severely affect vintage’s supply and demand equilibrium over the next 10 years and tank prices. We are potentially at the peak. Baby boomers are the reason.



Unfortunately, over the next 10 years, baby boomer deaths will significantly increase. Their heirs will liquidate collections and flood the market. This will increase the supply side. This is inevitable.



The question is whether the demand side will have enough buyers to support price levels. Right now, baby boomers are primarily supporting the demand side. They are retired and have nice disposable income levels. Baby boomers are buying legends, such as Mantle, Mays, Aaron, etc., they grew up watching and legends, such as DiMaggio, Ruth, Williams, etc., their fathers grew up watching and telling them about.



So, will the next generation have this same love of vintage to support prices?Baby boomers' kids don't want Hummel, Oak furniture, milk glass, brass, plate collections, spoon collections, most photo albums, etc etc etc. Who knows about vintage? But if millennials are the first generation expected to make less total wealth in a lifetime than their parents, it stands to reason a lot of vintage collections will pay for college, houses, retirement investment, etc.

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[Mark17]

I fear that demographics may severely affect vintage’s supply and demand equilibrium over the next 10 years and tank prices. We are potentially at the peak. Baby boomers are the reason.

Unfortunately, over the next 10 years, baby boomer deaths will significantly increase. Their heirs will liquidate collections and flood the market. This will increase the supply side. This is inevitable.

The question is whether the demand side will have enough buyers to support price levels. Right now, baby boomers are primarily supporting the demand side. They are retired and have nice disposable income levels. Baby boomers are buying legends, such as Mantle, Mays, Aaron, etc., they grew up watching and legends, such as DiMaggio, Ruth, Williams, etc., their fathers grew up watching and telling them about.

So, will the next generation have this same love of vintage to support prices?

Not sure if I agree with the nostalgia regarding Mantle, Mays, etc. being all that important.

Look at all the collectors here of guys like Wagner, Cobb, Plank, Speaker, and so on. Few people alive today saw these guys play, so there's zero nostalgia effect from personal experience with these players. No reason why collectors of the future won't also eagerly seek Mantle, Mays, and Aaron in the same way.

[todeen]

Not sure if I agree with the nostalgia regarding Mantle, Mays, etc. being all that important.



Look at all the collectors here of guys like Wagner, Cobb, Plank, Speaker, and so on. Few people alive today saw these guys play, so there's zero nostalgia effect from personal experience with these players. No reason why collectors of the future won't also eagerly seek Mantle, Mays, and Aaron in the same way.I collect Speaker because he is a distant cousin (I have a great uncle who is named after Tris, died in Korean War), and I was enamored by that as a 6/7 year old just learning about baseball. Similarly, my wife is distantly related to Enos "Country" Slaughter. It's a way I might affect my son to consider collecting vintage, since Slaughter doesn't seem as difficult or costly to acquire as Speaker at the moment.

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[glynparson]

Ignorance that’s why he said it. I have heard fools saying this since I started collecting over 40 years ago. Anybody can say anything. Put absolutely no stock in what he said. He doesn’t have a clue.

[jchcollins]

I would agree that for the few remaining storefront LCS operations, modern in the vast majority of cases is their bread and butter. For the past 2+ years, I've been lucky enough to have an LCS that did both that and vintage well, but with the onset of Covid, I went in one day probably in early June and the vintage was suddenly all gone. The owner had removed all the singles from his cases - citing I guess an increased risk if passing back and forth single cards - and is now "for the time being" (I'm guessing longer...) doing just new product and the breaks and the hobby boxes, etc. I was lucky enough to get some fantastic deals from him on vintage that I was interested in in the past, but the truth is he has more than enough customers that I would guess average in their 20's and early 30's who will come in and loiter for hours at a time, dropping cash left and right on modern and breaking it with him. Just over the last month or so I really kind of tried to plead my case - saying hey, can you look for XYZ for me? He knows what I collect, and has the stuff somewhere - but it's just not worth his time anymore. He of course promised to go hunting for me, but never has. Last week I was told "Sorry, we had 4 new releases this week." Ok. Disappointing, (especially considering the cash I have dropped with him on vintage in the past 2 years...) but I guess I get it. As for me anymore, eBay singles and buying elsewhere online for vintage is simply a ton easier. That's where I'm going to focus my efforts in the future. I'm all for supporting the local little guy, but if he's not interested anymore, then I'm not going to hound him to death forever.

[rhettyeakley]

Ignorance that’s why he said it. I have heard fools saying this since I started collecting over 40 years ago. Anybody can say anything. Put absolutely no stock in what he said. He doesn’t have a clue.

I agree with Glyn.

He lives in his own bubble and doesn’t know the actual market for vintage.

[Rich Klein]

A few random thoughts:

The store that survives on supplies may very well be doing just that. Back in the day the promoter (no longer with us) who used to promote the Nassau Coliseum show said he paid his rent with the profit from supplies. I know for me, it's easier to go to a LCS and have pre-made 3200 ct or monster boxes than for me to do them. The extra money is worth it for my aggravation. Plus getting sleeves and semi-rigids gives me a reason to visit the four stores within a half hour of my domicile.

Nick's Sportscards near me got in a large collection of Goudey's in a few months ago. They sent them to BGS for grading (frankly because they could drop off and pick up in person) and this was an original collection. I think maybe 10 percent of that collection was still there 3 weeks later. Sometimes you just have to be lucky as a vintage collector to visit a store when cards come in.

When we discuss vintage on hobby hotline (I do try to bring some vintage discussion in when I'm on the show) one aspect which gets pointed out is the lack of film about vintage players. Back in the day when we got our news via daily papers and television that mix allowed us to read about the older players. In today's world it's far more important to have visuals than printed word.

With the profits out there on modern boxes/cases/singles what do you do? You got to sell what more of the people want. As Leon has said (and I apologize if I get his quote wrong): We're about 1 percent of the card collecting community albeit a very important part thereof. I received the REA Catalog last night and even there with all the great vintage in it, there is a lot more modern stuff than ever before.

More thoughts later

Rich

[jchcollins]

The store that survives on supplies may very well be doing just that.

I used to have an LCS 15+ years ago that I only bought supplies from. Not sure if they totally made their living that way, but I would not have been surprised. The "cards" in the store were mostly Pokemon and a small selection of modern boxes, one tiny display case of beat and overpriced raw vintage and junk era stars. I literally never bought a card in the place, only boxes and toploaders and sleeves. It closed some time back.

[luciobar1980]

For the record and to clarify my original post, I don't hold it against any shop owner for focusing on modern. It totally makes sense. If I owned a card shop I would definitely focus on modern in store and then sell vintage online. I was just surprised at how down on vintage that owner seemed to be. And unrealistically down, the way he talked about Mays card being worth $20. He sort of vaguely lumped all vintage Mays card together and said they aren't worth what they used to be. And clearly that's just not true.

[jchcollins]

For the record and to clarify my original post, I don't hold it against any shop owner for focusing on modern. It totally makes sense. If I owned a card shop I would definitely focus on modern in store and then sell vintage online. I was just surprised at how down on vintage that owner seemed to be. And unrealistically down, the way he talked about Mays card being worth $20. He sort of vaguely lumped all vintage Mays card together and said they aren't worth what they used to be. And clearly that's just not true.

As is true elsewhere in multiple other walks of life - either he was deliberately lying to you, or he was genuinely uniformed. I've gotten some very nice deals in the fairly recent past on prewar HOF in person - and in retrospect I think it's because the dealer was mainly a modern guy, and didn't realize how on-fire some of that stuff was. They make mistakes like everyone else.

[luciobar1980]

As is true elsewhere in multiple other walks of life - either he was deliberately lying to you, or he was genuinely uniformed. I've gotten some very nice deals in the fairly recent past on prewar HOF in person - and in retrospect I think it's because the dealer was mainly a modern guy, and didn't realize how on-fire some of that stuff was. They make mistakes like everyone else.

I totally get that. It seems lately some cards can change in price from week to week! So I'm sure some of these dealers aren't informed up to the last sale.

[rhettyeakley]

Funny but true story.

A few years back at one of the local card shops by my house here in Boise that has some vintage but not a ton. I was looking through a bargain box and found (3) 1914-1915 Cracker Jack cards in the $1 each box. They were real but the shop owner had never seen a real one and thought they were cheap fakes because they were on such thin paper. I paid him much more than what he had on the cards (I want to say I gave him $300 for them) and showed him how to tell they were real. He was pretty happy to get the extra money. He had gotten them in a collection of mostly 1950-60’s cards and just never thought in a million years that they were actually that old. Unfortunately they weren’t major stars or anything, just 3 pretty decent condition commons.

He sells almost exclusively newer cards and some Pokémon but I’ve never seen another pre-war card in the shop.

[egri]

Or he sized the OP up as an older guy who would potentially offload some vintage cheap if he was told that stuff wasn't worth anything.

There used to be a lot of guys who would run stuff down to try buying it cheap.
"I can buy a bunch of those for X =50% less than priced"
"Those aren't worth anything, I have hundreds I can't sell for half that"

Ok then, go buy those cheaper ones and I'll buy them for double what you paid. Or- Ok then, bring them to me, I'll buy them.

Funny, the supply of the identical item for very little suddenly doesn't exist.

I remember reading a few years ago about one of the experts from Antiques Roadshow got in trouble for doing something similar with Civil War relics. He would give his lowball valuation, then his partner would come up afterwards and make a higher (but still below market) offer. I forget how they were caught, or what the fallout was, though.

[tschock]

When my better half and I drive around and regularly pass any business that never seems to have any activity, one of us will eventually make the comment about another business that's just a front for money laundering. :cool:

[jchcollins]

I totally get that. It seems lately some cards can change in price from week to week! So I'm sure some of these dealers aren't informed up to the last sale.

Some don't help themselves though by not staying up to date on the latest pricing tools. My current LCS owner has no idea what VCP is; he still looks things up in the online version of Beckett along with sometimes checking ebay prices. I'm like Oh kaaaay.... Vintage is not his main business by a long shot, but he has dealt in enough of it to where I wouldn't want to be guesstimating what certain things were really worth. With his Mantles at least, he seems to follow the standard card shop practice of horribly overpricing them for the masses, but he would come down / be willing to make deals with collectors like me who are more in tune to their real value if I was interested in something.

[Knoxy24]

Im amazed at the number of dealers I have spoken to that had very little knowledge of the card market or just cards in general. For an example I typically go to card shows in search of specific items. When I ask dealers if they have these items they typically have no idea what im looking for. Granted I collect non mainstream stuff but they have never even heard of it. One show I was looking for a 47 sports exchange Ted Williams and a 1950 prest-o-lite Ted Williams, no one knew what the hell I was talking about or even what those cards were.

[conor912]

Im amazed at the number of dealers I have spoken to that had very little knowledge of the card market or just cards in general. For an example I typically go to card shows in search of specific items. When I ask dealers if they have these items they typically have no idea what im looking for. Granted I collect non mainstream stuff but they have never even heard of it. One show I was looking for a 47 sports exchange Ted Williams and a 1950 prest-o-lite Ted Williams, no one knew what the hell I was talking about or even what those cards were.

Neither do I.

[jchcollins]

One of my favorite lines from dealers at shows or shops is "(Uh...) I can't do eBay prices." Ok maybe not, but you realize online basically IS the market for vintage right now? If you can't give me a price that's competitive, then at least be prepared to tell me about the bells and whistles your card has that makes it so much better than those online.

[Exhibitman]

We do tend to be experts in our niches, so it is natural that generalist sellers might not know the nuances, but 'professional' sellers who live in ignorance of the basics despite the incredible tools available right now online, well, that is just bad business. A fool and his money...

[ASF123]

with the onset of Covid, I went in one day probably in early June and the vintage was suddenly all gone. The owner had removed all the singles from his cases - citing I guess an increased risk if passing back and forth single cards - and is now "for the time being" (I'm guessing longer...) doing just new product and the breaks and the hobby boxes, etc. I was lucky enough to get some fantastic deals from him on vintage that I was interested in in the past, but the truth is he has more than enough customers that I would guess average in their 20's and early 30's who will come in and loiter for hours at a time, dropping cash left and right on modern and breaking it with him....which is, ironically, far riskier from a Covid standpoint than handing a vintage card to someone.

[jchcollins]

...which is, ironically, far riskier from a Covid standpoint than handing a vintage card to someone.

Of course. I would go in, find what I wanted, sometimes spend hundreds of dollars on a single card, and then leave. The guys who do the hobby boxes are ALWAYS in there, no matter if I come in at 10 am or 4:30 pm. They are there when I come in, there when I leave, and there the next week. Sometimes I wonder if they have jobs.

[ASF123]

Of course. I would go in, find what I wanted, sometimes spend hundreds of dollars on a single card, and then leave. The guys who do the hobby boxes are ALWAYS in there, no matter if I come in at 10 am or 4:30 pm. They are there when I come in, there when I leave, and there the next week. Sometimes I wonder if they have jobs."If I flip two Jasson Dominguezes, I can pay my rent for the year!"

[Wimberleycardcollector]

It's difficult to even find a card shop near where I live must less one with any vintage cards. The ones we do have deal in mostly new stuff. Every now and then they'll get a vintage card but it does sit for a long while before it moves. Online sales don't seem to have been affected. I end up bidding high on most of what I want and seems other do as well. He's probably not an internet guy but has been strictly brick and mortar the lifespan of his shop. Even though I'm mostly a vintage collector I have been really digging some of the new tobacco card sized new cards and I still love to open packs. :)

[jchcollins]

Even though I'm mostly a vintage collector I have been really digging some of the new tobacco card sized new cards and I still love to open packs. :)

I don’t hate newer cards, they’re just not my first love. I try to limit the modern I do buy to Cubs players I’m interested in, since I don’t have an unlimited hobby budget.


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[vintagebaseballcardguy]

I don’t hate newer cards, they’re just not my first love. I try to limit the modern I do buy to Cubs players I’m interested in, since I don’t have an unlimited hobby budget.


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John, I instantly thought of you when I saw this thread! :D