1914 Cracker Jack Color Variations?

[investinrookies]

Seeking some insight on what seems to be some degree of color variations on these particularly with the red color of the background. There appears to be some that have more of a deeper red than others and some with an overall orange/red background. I’ve noticed the orange/red version on a few of the mattys in particular. Heres an example below. I’ve also seen it on unaltered versions to suggest it’s not a result of cleaning.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201116/d10789c2f1fce6d2b4d70135ae55e369.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201116/1f662d964aebe0fff42584fcc7a39ee7.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Casey2296]

I've noticed that too and always assumed it was fading, but looking at your Matty example if that was the case then the black should be a little more faded also. A quick check of the 14 CJ's on eBay shows several cards with the red/orange background. One explanation might be a different red ink formulation used on different printing runs. It may have looked like the same red at time of printing but contained a pigment or filler that became fugitive over time.

[investinrookies]

that's the thing, the black on the Matty is really dark, actually darker than most of my others, especially from the back.

[tiger8mush]

This one has a pink/magenta tone to it ...

[t206fanatic]

This is the "pinkest" one in my collection -- always has looked a little, off.

[steve B]

Black inks were often colored with carbon, and shouldn't fade.

Red generally will fade with light exposure, but at the time there were competing red pigments. Some of them were more colorfast than others.

The exact color was also mixed by hand starting with a base color and adding small amounts of others to adjust it to exactly what was wanted. And if the pressman was slightly short of base or ran low adding a little of something could extend the existing ink just enough to finish the days work (Or shift)
But of course, if you put in too much white, or extend with a tiny bit of white your red will be lighter.

[toledo_mudhen]

OT BUT - This one comes back as a 3 - Owner obviously not happy. Description states he talked to grader and the 3 is the result of "caramel stains"?

I was thinking that pretty much ALL of these are stained to some degree.

Is the 3 not an unusually harsh grade on this?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1914-CRACKER-JACK-WALTER-JOHNSON-57-SENATORS-HOF-PSA-3-NRMT-MUCH-BETTER-READ/254630574591?hash=item3b492a39ff:g:wKUAAOSwT~lfsHx ~

[oldeboo]

OT BUT - This one comes back as a 3 - Owner obviously not happy. Description states he talked to grader and the 3 is the result of "caramel stains"?

I was thinking that pretty much ALL of these are stained to some degree.

Is the 3 not an unusually harsh grade on this?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1914-CRACKER-JACK-WALTER-JOHNSON-57-SENATORS-HOF-PSA-3-NRMT-MUCH-BETTER-READ/254630574591?hash=item3b492a39ff:g:wKUAAOSwT~lfsHx ~

Company line for cards distributed with messy products. An anonymous numerical grade from a stranger means absolutely nothing when evaluating cards like the 1914 CJs or Polar Bear T205/T206 as examples. I have a strong preference for caramel stains and even bits of scrap tobacco stuck to Polar Bear cards. With that said, PSA is all over the place when it comes to nuances to issues like these, one of their evaluators would call that a 6-7 and another a 2-3. That card should be valued in the 6 range all day long IMO. That looks darn near freshly pulled from a CJ box, let's be honest.

[Kidnapped18]

I agree this card visually looks much better than a PSA 3 so a re-submit is not totally out of the question. $25,000 is a bit too steep for me personally even for this good looking card. The only '14 CJs I'm paying $25,000+ for are Cobbs, Mattys and Shoeless Joes.

PSA is all over the place when it comes to stains on this issue. They have labeled some cards with the ST qualifier for the caramel stains and deduct points on others based on the staining. I would agree that stains, other than caramel stains, should be taken into grading consideration but any collector who owns '14 CJs knows that is how they come and that is why we collect them.

Tony

[Kidnapped18]

Duplicate

[ajjohnsonsoxfan]

PSA screwed themselves with CJ grades, having changed the way the caramel stains affect the overall grading scale from prior years. There's no consistency anymore with the 1914's. It's a total shit show