Fake 1915 Cracker Jack in PSA holder...wow!

[CrackaJackKid]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/392991975744

[biggsdaddycool]

I trust your assessment. For my own knowledge advancement, what stands out to you about this card that makes you believe it to be fake?

Mike


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[scooter729]

Yeah, it looks like it even has perforations along the edges of the card!

Bottom edge of the PSA case looks pretty frosty - probably a crack out and slip this fugazi in there in its place? I know we all want to rip on PSA, but I don't think PSA would miss one like this....

[Donscards]

Yes that is a reprint Cracker Jack---case has been played with--Bad card for sure.

[CrackaJackKid]

I realize most are quick to defend PSA, but could someone please point out definitively where the case has been tampered with from the pics cause I’m not seeing it.

[tiger8mush]

plus the 1915's should have upside down backs.

[tiger8mush]

There are SO many things wrong with it - the colors, the borders, the edges, the image, the non upside down back, the color on the back - that I don't believe any TPG would encapsulate it.

Comparison ...

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/oFQAAOSw8JRfljUl/s-l1600.jpg
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/JxUAAOSwgqZdooKN/s-l1600.jpg

[3-2-count]

See post #33 in the below link

https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=279704

[oldeboo]

I posted this in another thread, but here are some easy ones that alerted me.

[nsaddict]

Looks like a Dover reprint artificially aged. And this is a recent grade!

[CrackaJackKid]

Isn’t every card supposed to go through 3-4 different graders before leaving the facility? How does this happen on such a blatant fake?

[CobbSpikedMe]

I also tend to believe PSA wouldn't miss this one and that someone has slipped the reprint in and taken the real card out. This is too easily identified as a reprint.

[jad22]

I also tend to believe PSA wouldn't miss this one and that someone has slipped the reprint in and taken the real card out. This is too easily identified as a reprint.

The seller updated the listing. Wrote that this just came back recently.

[Leon]

The seller updated the listing. Wrote that this just came back recently.

It is hard to believe PSA slabbed that if they did.

[oldeboo]

Plot twist

Quoting the update:

"EDITED TO ADD: I have been contacted by a Cracker Jack card collector that this card is a fake. When I came across this card in my collection I wasn't 100% sure if the card was original or not, hence sending it off to PSA a few months back. Just got it back from them in the last week or so and what you see is exactly how I received it back from PSA. I thought part of their process was authentication, so I'm not sure what to think here, but it is not my intent to deceive, or in any way misrepresent this card, so please bear this information in mind as you bid."

[nsaddict]

Seller pulled auction!

[commishbob]

Gotta be a switched out card. Ray Charles would know that card is a Dover. Even a first-day-on-the-job grader couldn’t miss the perforation evidence. If PSA actually graded and slabbed that they should shut their doors.

[bnorth]

I also tend to believe PSA wouldn't miss this one and that someone has slipped the reprint in and taken the real card out. This is too easily identified as a reprint.

Wouldn't that be incredibly hard with the new holders? I have only saved a few cards from the new holders and it wasn't a breeze like the old ones that would fall apart easily.

[oldeboo]

Wouldn't that be incredibly hard with the new holders? I have only saved a few cards from the new holders and it wasn't a breeze like the old ones that would fall apart easily.

Extremely challenging I'd guess to crack those holders open and leave no trace of tampering.

[Seven]

Gotta be a switched out card. Ray Charles would know that card is a Dover. Even a first-day-on-the-job grader couldn’t miss the perforation evidence. If PSA actually graded and slabbed that they should shut their doors.

I posted this in the other thread concerning the 1914 Cracker Jacks. It's either a case of PSA messing up, or the reproduction of a genuine slab is getting so good at this point that, unless your an expert, you're not going to be able to tell.

I want to give the seller the benefit of the doubt, especially considering he pulled the auction but wow, this is not a good luck for PSA if this error was on them. Trimmed and Altered cards, receiving number grades were bad enough as it is, if they're slabbing fakes as real, then this opens up a whole new can of worms.

[tiger8mush]

Everything else he is selling is mid/late 80s & newer. Its the only PSA card he's selling, and nothing else he's sold was graded by PSA.

Was this the only card he submitted? How did it get into his collection? When did it get artificially aged?

Now that he's pulled the auction, what will be done with the card?

[CrackaJackKid]

I 100% believe the seller. This just shows PSAs lack of incompetence. The seller should be making his way in here soon to clear things up for all the doubters.

[ullmandds]

a dover reprint should never fool anyone let alone a TPG'er esp if one is able to physically hold the raw card in their hand. The stock is nothing like a real card...and the perforations...c'mon!!!!!!

the holder is scary good...and if PSA did in fact grade this...they should be taken out back.


https://www.reddit.com/r/baseballcards/comments/h7cqru/a_1915_cracker_jack_connie_mackor_is_it_story_in/

[oldeboo]

a dover reprint should never fool anyone let alone a TPG'er esp if one is able to physically hold the raw card in their hand. The stock is nothing like a real card...and the perforations...c'mon!!!!!!

the holder is scary good...and if PSA did in fact grade this...they should be taken out back.


https://www.reddit.com/r/baseballcards/comments/h7cqru/a_1915_cracker_jack_connie_mackor_is_it_story_in/

There's your smoking gun!!! Great find! UNREAL

[nsaddict]

My opinion, NOT a switch-a-roo. Just a bad mistake by TPG. They’ve been so swamped with orders and have hired new help. I doubt most were qualified to begin with and probably feel pressure to grade x amount of cards per day. And this card bears the result.

[tiger8mush]

There are SO many things wrong with it - the colors, the borders, the edges, the image, the non upside down back, the color on the back - that I don't believe any TPG would encapsulate it.


Guess I was wrong.

[AGuinness]

Now that he's pulled the auction, what will be done with the card?

If PSA truly slabbed it as presented, I would think that PSA would offer a decent sum to get it back, take it out of the slab and off the market. And I would think that some PSA detractor might offer a decent sum to add it to their collection as a unique piece that shows how bad grading can possibly be.

[glynparson]

Isn’t every card supposed to go through 3-4 different graders before leaving the facility? How does this happen on such a blatant fake?

It didn’t it’s a screwed with case. Seriously just read the thread.

[conor912]

Regardless of the source, I would think PSA would want to get their hands on that thing to inspect it. Either way, it's scary.

[Kutcher55]

Hard to think PSA would grade that as authentic. Seriously doubt it.

[oldeboo]

You could post a video of someone putting that card inside the slab, a clearly identified person, and most would deny it. Why?

[CrackaJackKid]

It didn’t it’s a screwed with case. Seriously just read the thread.

I’m the one who started the thread. I have read it. And no where does it definitively say it was someone maliciously altering the slab. I’ve been in contact with the original owner. He will be coming on here soon to set the record straight.

[DWS44]

Hello Everyone…I’m Dave Smith (aka DWS44), the thoroughly embarrassed owner of that 1915 Cracker Jack Connie Mack Card…or whatever the heck it really is. A nice person who contacted me via ebay this morning to tip me off let me know that news of my card was spreading through the forums and was kind enough to send me a link to this post. I just joined your forum so I could explain this situation as it has unfolded this morning.

Some quick background. I was a big card collector starting around late 1986 through the 90s during my teen years and into college. During the time I put together quite a collection, and with my parents, also owned/operated a successful card shop through most of the 90s in Johnson City, TN. After college I got into other things and when I moved to Charlotte in 1999, I packed up the card collection and the vast majority I hadn’t touched until this spring. Like a lot of others, Covid suddenly gave me more time at home to play with cards and start getting things ready to sell. As some noted above, a majority of my collection was of the 80s/90s era, but I did have a fair number of older cards as well. IOW, I’m not a newbie to card collecting…just maybe a little rusty. In fact, I have already sold complete sets of 1959 and 1961 Topps cards and a few other older singles on ebay, with positive feedback on those listings, if you’re bored enough to want to search my feedback. I’ve been buying and selling on ebay since the late 90s. I ALWAYS do my best to be honest in my dealings and in my listing descriptions. That’s how I was raised, how we ran our card shop, and how I try to operate in life.

Now…the Cracker Jack card. I ran across this card back in the spring with some of my older cards. The best I recall, we found this card in a large collection of cards we bought back in the card shop days, so it’s been in my collection since at least the mid 90s. I kept it in my collection for the coolness factor of being the “oldest” card in my collection, though I had never really considered or verified its originality. It looked old, and that was cool enough for teenage me. Fast Forward to present and me selling things. I know enough to know that counterfeiting has always been a thing, and since I didn’t know the originality of this card, I tried to do some research. I understand some may have found a Reddit post that I made back in the spring trying to learn more about the card. I hang around some other Reddit groups, so that was where I thought to ask. Consensus from a handful that responded was that it was probably a fake but suggested that I probably needed to send to PSA to know for sure.

As for PSA…some noted that I had not listed anything else that is PSA graded. Back in our collecting and card shop days, PSA grading was not as big of a “thing” as it has since evolved into. I had never been through the PSA process. When I decided to start selling the collection, I decided I was not going to start going through all that, though I probably could have sold some of my bigger cards (Jordan, Griffey, Jeter RCs) for considerably more. I just didn’t want to chance damage to the cards in shipping or wait several months for them to come back. With respect to the unknowns on the Cracker Jack card, I figured what the heck…I’ll at least be able to experience the process, and then I’ll know for sure what I have and can list it safely knowing what it is.

I sent the card off on June 8th. In the paperwork, I specifically stated that I wasn’t sure if the card was original or not. I received the card back on October 13th. I thought that part of the PSA grading process was authentication and that they would not grade reprint or counterfeit cards. Perhaps I was wrong in that assumption, but I swear on a stack of Bibles that what you all see in those pictures is exactly what I received back from PSA. 100% unaltered. There was no mention in the paperwork of it being a reprint/counterfeit/fake, so I assumed it was actually a real, original, card and last night I got around to posting it for sale. I wake up this morning to a message from the person I mention above that the card was an obvious a fake. The person seemed sincere, so I went to cancel the auction, but found I already had a few bids. I then added the addendum you all posted above that it may be a fake despite the PSA grading and I also contacted the person who was high bidder at the time if they wanted to retract their bid. My first instinct was to leave it that way, let people decide for themselves if they still wanted whatever it is, and figured that would probably kill bidder interest anyways. As the morning progressed, I continued getting bids, as well as more people contacting me that it was obviously a fake, found out about my listing being posted and discussed at forums, people tracking info about me, etc. That’s when I just cancelled the bid and ate the ebay fees to do so.

So…there it is. The full story. I apologize for any misunderstandings about the list, but like I said…it is not my intent to misrepresent or mislead anyone. There is absolutely no way I would intentionally tamper with a PSA case or swap in a fake card to try to make a buck. That is not how I operate. I’m rather proud of have 20+ years of 100% feedback on ebay and other forums that I’ve sold items. Reading comments here are enough to turn my stomach, and I am embarrassed for posting something for sale that would put me in that light with collectors. I would take my collection out in the back yard and set it on fire before I’d want people to think I’m dishonest or a scammer. And I’m pretty sure that my first dealing with PSA will also be my last. Uggh. For the record, I have also contacted PSA over the matter, but the autoresponse I got back said it would probably be five days before I would get any response.

If you read all that…thank you for your time. I hope that explains the situation better for you all. If you have been following this on other forums, I would welcome you to extend a link to my explanation to the other sites as well.

[mechanicalman]

1.5? PSA is so harsh on fake CJs.

[wondo]

I’m sure the original owner has the original submission paperwork / electronic record to back up the submission claim - amazing.

[ullmandds]

Hello Everyone…I’m Dave Smith (aka DWS44), the thoroughly embarrassed owner of that 1915 Cracker Jack Connie Mack Card…or whatever the heck it really is. A nice person who contacted me via ebay this morning to tip me off let me know that news of my card was spreading through the forums and was kind enough to send me a link to this post. I just joined your forum so I could explain this situation as it has unfolded this morning.

Some quick background. I was a big card collector starting around late 1986 through the 90s during my teen years and into college. During the time I put together quite a collection, and with my parents, also owned/operated a successful card shop through most of the 90s in Johnson City, TN. After college I got into other things and when I moved to Charlotte in 1999, I packed up the card collection and the vast majority I hadn’t touched until this spring. Like a lot of others, Covid suddenly gave me more time at home to play with cards and start getting things ready to sell. As some noted above, a majority of my collection was of the 80s/90s era, but I did have a fair number of older cards as well. IOW, I’m not a newbie to card collecting…just maybe a little rusty. In fact, I have already sold complete sets of 1959 and 1961 Topps cards and a few other older singles on ebay, with positive feedback on those listings, if you’re bored enough to want to search my feedback. I’ve been buying and selling on ebay since the late 90s. I ALWAYS do my best to be honest in my dealings and in my listing descriptions. That’s how I was raised, how we ran our card shop, and how I try to operate in life.

Now…the Cracker Jack card. I ran across this card back in the spring with some of my older cards. The best I recall, we found this card in a large collection of cards we bought back in the card shop days, so it’s been in my collection since at least the mid 90s. I kept it in my collection for the coolness factor of being the “oldest” card in my collection, though I had never really considered or verified its originality. It looked old, and that was cool enough for teenage me. Fast Forward to present and me selling things. I know enough to know that counterfeiting has always been a thing, and since I didn’t know the originality of this card, I tried to do some research. I understand some may have found a Reddit post that I made back in the spring trying to learn more about the card. I hang around some other Reddit groups, so that was where I thought to ask. Consensus from a handful that responded was that it was probably a fake but suggested that I probably needed to send to PSA to know for sure.

As for PSA…some noted that I had not listed anything else that is PSA graded. Back in our collecting and card shop days, PSA grading was not as big of a “thing” as it has since evolved into. I had never been through the PSA process. When I decided to start selling the collection, I decided I was not going to start going through all that, though I probably could have sold some of my bigger cards (Jordan, Griffey, Jeter RCs) for considerably more. I just didn’t want to chance damage to the cards in shipping or wait several months for them to come back. With respect to the unknowns on the Cracker Jack card, I figured what the heck…I’ll at least be able to experience the process, and then I’ll know for sure what I have and can list it safely knowing what it is.

I sent the card off on June 8th. In the paperwork, I specifically stated that I wasn’t sure if the card was original or not. I received the card back on October 13th. I thought that part of the PSA grading process was authentication and that they would not grade reprint or counterfeit cards. Perhaps I was wrong in that assumption, but I swear on a stack of Bibles that what you all see in those pictures is exactly what I received back from PSA. 100% unaltered. There was no mention in the paperwork of it being a reprint/counterfeit/fake, so I assumed it was actually a real, original, card and last night I got around to posting it for sale. I wake up this morning to a message from the person I mention above that the card was an obvious a fake. The person seemed sincere, so I went to cancel the auction, but found I already had a few bids. I then added the addendum you all posted above that it may be a fake despite the PSA grading and I also contacted the person who was high bidder at the time if they wanted to retract their bid. My first instinct was to leave it that way, let people decide for themselves if they still wanted whatever it is, and figured that would probably kill bidder interest anyways. As the morning progressed, I continued getting bids, as well as more people contacting me that it was obviously a fake, found out about my listing being posted and discussed at forums, people tracking info about me, etc. That’s when I just cancelled the bid and ate the ebay fees to do so.

So…there it is. The full story. I apologize for any misunderstandings about the list, but like I said…it is not my intent to misrepresent or mislead anyone. There is absolutely no way I would intentionally tamper with a PSA case or swap in a fake card to try to make a buck. That is not how I operate. I’m rather proud of have 20+ years of 100% feedback on ebay and other forums that I’ve sold items. Reading comments here are enough to turn my stomach, and I am embarrassed for posting something for sale that would put me in that light with collectors. I would take my collection out in the back yard and set it on fire before I’d want people to think I’m dishonest or a scammer. And I’m pretty sure that my first dealing with PSA will also be my last. Uggh. For the record, I have also contacted PSA over the matter, but the autoresponse I got back said it would probably be five days before I would get any response.

If you read all that…thank you for your time. I hope that explains the situation better for you all. If you have been following this on other forums, I would welcome you to extend a link to my explanation to the other sites as well.

Can we see copy of the paperwork from PSA?

[Leon]

Hello Everyone…I’m Dave Smith (aka DWS44), the thoroughly embarrassed owner of that 1915 Cracker Jack Connie Mack Card…or whatever the heck it really is. A nice person who contacted me via ebay this morning to tip me off let me know that news of my card was spreading through the forums and was kind enough to send me a link to this post. I just joined your forum so I could explain this situation as it has unfolded this morning.

Some quick background. I was a big card collector starting around late 1986 through the 90s during my teen years and into college. During the time I put together quite a collection, and with my parents, also owned/operated a successful card shop through most of the 90s in Johnson City, TN. After college I got into other things and when I moved to Charlotte in 1999, I packed up the card collection and the vast majority I hadn’t touched until this spring. Like a lot of others, Covid suddenly gave me more time at home to play with cards and start getting things ready to sell. As some noted above, a majority of my collection was of the 80s/90s era, but I did have a fair number of older cards as well. IOW, I’m not a newbie to card collecting…just maybe a little rusty. In fact, I have already sold complete sets of 1959 and 1961 Topps cards and a few other older singles on ebay, with positive feedback on those listings, if you’re bored enough to want to search my feedback. I’ve been buying and selling on ebay since the late 90s. I ALWAYS do my best to be honest in my dealings and in my listing descriptions. That’s how I was raised, how we ran our card shop, and how I try to operate in life.

Now…the Cracker Jack card. I ran across this card back in the spring with some of my older cards. The best I recall, we found this card in a large collection of cards we bought back in the card shop days, so it’s been in my collection since at least the mid 90s. I kept it in my collection for the coolness factor of being the “oldest” card in my collection, though I had never really considered or verified its originality. It looked old, and that was cool enough for teenage me. Fast Forward to present and me selling things. I know enough to know that counterfeiting has always been a thing, and since I didn’t know the originality of this card, I tried to do some research. I understand some may have found a Reddit post that I made back in the spring trying to learn more about the card. I hang around some other Reddit groups, so that was where I thought to ask. Consensus from a handful that responded was that it was probably a fake but suggested that I probably needed to send to PSA to know for sure.

As for PSA…some noted that I had not listed anything else that is PSA graded. Back in our collecting and card shop days, PSA grading was not as big of a “thing” as it has since evolved into. I had never been through the PSA process. When I decided to start selling the collection, I decided I was not going to start going through all that, though I probably could have sold some of my bigger cards (Jordan, Griffey, Jeter RCs) for considerably more. I just didn’t want to chance damage to the cards in shipping or wait several months for them to come back. With respect to the unknowns on the Cracker Jack card, I figured what the heck…I’ll at least be able to experience the process, and then I’ll know for sure what I have and can list it safely knowing what it is.

I sent the card off on June 8th. In the paperwork, I specifically stated that I wasn’t sure if the card was original or not. I received the card back on October 13th. I thought that part of the PSA grading process was authentication and that they would not grade reprint or counterfeit cards. Perhaps I was wrong in that assumption, but I swear on a stack of Bibles that what you all see in those pictures is exactly what I received back from PSA. 100% unaltered. There was no mention in the paperwork of it being a reprint/counterfeit/fake, so I assumed it was actually a real, original, card and last night I got around to posting it for sale. I wake up this morning to a message from the person I mention above that the card was an obvious a fake. The person seemed sincere, so I went to cancel the auction, but found I already had a few bids. I then added the addendum you all posted above that it may be a fake despite the PSA grading and I also contacted the person who was high bidder at the time if they wanted to retract their bid. My first instinct was to leave it that way, let people decide for themselves if they still wanted whatever it is, and figured that would probably kill bidder interest anyways. As the morning progressed, I continued getting bids, as well as more people contacting me that it was obviously a fake, found out about my listing being posted and discussed at forums, people tracking info about me, etc. That’s when I just cancelled the bid and ate the ebay fees to do so.

So…there it is. The full story. I apologize for any misunderstandings about the list, but like I said…it is not my intent to misrepresent or mislead anyone. There is absolutely no way I would intentionally tamper with a PSA case or swap in a fake card to try to make a buck. That is not how I operate. I’m rather proud of have 20+ years of 100% feedback on ebay and other forums that I’ve sold items. Reading comments here are enough to turn my stomach, and I am embarrassed for posting something for sale that would put me in that light with collectors. I would take my collection out in the back yard and set it on fire before I’d want people to think I’m dishonest or a scammer. And I’m pretty sure that my first dealing with PSA will also be my last. Uggh. For the record, I have also contacted PSA over the matter, but the autoresponse I got back said it would probably be five days before I would get any response.

If you read all that…thank you for your time. I hope that explains the situation better for you all. If you have been following this on other forums, I would welcome you to extend a link to my explanation to the other sites as well.

Thanks for the back up story.
Unbelievable on PSA's part in authenticating it. It's not even a good looking fake. At least it could almost look real but to anyone that has ever actually seen one it isn't even a close call to being real. PSA apologists get in line here...let's hear how great they are. :)

[oldeboo]

Can we see copy of the paperwork from PSA?

People still wouldn't believe it.

Thank you to the seller for coming here to tell your story. Don't take anything that anyone says personally. There is a group of people that will defend third party graders like they are family, for some reason.

Stay around awhile and check out the site some, I'm sure you'll find some interesting content.

[DWS44]

Can we see copy of the paperwork from PSA?

Sure. Here are the two sheets that were in the package with the card. I blanked out my street address, phone# and credit card info, but otherwise, this it is: https://imgur.com/a/rNMkdWM

[ullmandds]

Sure. Here are the two sheets that were in the package with the card. I blanked out my street address, phone# and credit card info, but otherwise, this it is: https://imgur.com/a/rNMkdWM

thx I appreciate you showing that...a poor reflection on PSA.

[CrackaJackKid]

Thanks for the back up story.
Unbelievable on PSA's part in authenticating it. It's not even a good looking fake. At least it could almost look real but to anyone that has ever actually seen one it isn't even a close call to being real. PSA apologists get in line here...let's hear how great they are. :)

+1000000

I’m ready myself.

[bnorth]

It didn’t it’s a screwed with case. Seriously just read the thread.

Excellent idea.

[conor912]

Wow. That paperwork looks legit. This isn't even a "is it altered/is it not, he said/she said" situation. That card is as fake as fake gets.

[Jgrace]

Unbelievable. It’s such an obvious fake I can’t even wrap my head around it. The perforations alone...

Reinforces the need to do your homework on slabbed cards. Caveat emptor, etc.

[wazoo]

Excellent idea.

Only the best suggestions....

[swarmee]

For posterity. Before they zero out the cert number...

[JollyElm]

Can someone explain the perforations issue to us non-CJ collectors? In the comparison graphic posted, it looks like both the 'real' card and the Dover reprint have perforations, just to a different extent. Is that the case, or do the originals have no perforations...or is it something else??

[oldeboo]

Can someone explain the perforations issue to us non-CJ collectors? In the comparison graphic posted, it looks like both the 'real' card and the Dover reprint have perforations, just to a different extent. Is that the case, or do the originals have no perforations...or is it something else??

A genuine card is just a normal straight cut like most other cards. The Dover reprints have the perforations. Printing anomalies are also very easy to pickup on the Dover reprints. Here is an example from Ebay of how the Dover cards came, I believe. You could easily tear them apart at the perforations if desired.

In the comparison above in this thread, a known Dover is being compared to the questionable card. Well not really questionable, honestly.

It's a common trick for scammers to stain these cards, trim the edges, and rub off where it says REPRINT and stain over that spot to trick the unsuspected. Whoever doctored this one just chose to rub the perforation nubs down a little instead of trimming.

[JollyElm]

But, I'm confused. Here is the graphic I mentioned. The 'real' card situated above the 'Dover Reprint' seems to have perforations across the top...

423639

[swarmee]

Both cards in the image are fake. The top one is the one in the PSA slab...

To add: the texture/cardstock between the two cards is also immediately noticeable if you have them in your hands. It's completely ridiculous that PSA authenticated this reprint from 60 years newer. It would probably fluoresce under a black light because of the whitening in the card as well. Just atrocious!

[jerseygary]

(Looks like John beat me to it)

I can see how it could be confusing.

What the photos are showing is a regular un-aged Dover reprint card compared with the slabbed card, which is also a Dover reprint card which has been artificially aged. Neither card shown is original, both are reprints from the same source.

[JollyElm]

Wow, then those graphics really need to have 'Dover Reprint' written beneath both.

[swarmee]

Wow, then those graphics really need to have 'Dover Reprint' written beneath both.
I think the top one should have "PSA Authenticated 1915 Cracker Jack" beneath it.

[oldeboo]

I think the top one should have "PSA Authenticated 1915 Cracker Jack" beneath it.

Good idea. I'll go back and add that in now. I just threw it together quickly and didn't think to add that or organize it better at least.

[oldeboo]

Here are some updates to the graphic to help anyone that was confused. I think it's a little easier to understand, although it is very busy for 1 image, so I apologize.

For anyone struggling with identifying some of the commonly distributed doctored reprints, it's usually a good idea to just go on Ebay and search "Mack Cracker Jack Reprint," as an example, you'll find the common ones at least. Obviously, there are ones much more sophisticated than these.

Edit: to be clear, the card which is slabbed is identified in the graphic as "PSA Authenticated 1915 Cracker Jack Dover Reprint." This card has been determined to be a Dover Reprint card by this board. PSA deemed it to be a genuine 1915 Cracker Jack card.

[doug.goodman]

...a poor reflection on PSA.

Here's another "poor reflection" from early in their history...

[bnorth]

Her's another "poor reflection" from early in their history...

At least they are consistent.:eek:

[Rhotchkiss]

“Never Get Cheated”..... a great punchline to this TPG malpractice.

John, is this over on blowout?

[swarmee]

John, is this over on blowout?
Yeah, I added it to the back of a thread in the baseball section and the grading section.

Oh, and I bid $50 on the slabbed fake.

[Tao_Moko]

This is so far from an isolated incident. I've said it a million times - the tpg's lack controls to consistently, effectively and accurately measure a cards condition. And in this case even authenticate.

[Fred]

Grading is subjective... it looked real to the grader...:p That's just unbelievable.

[jchcollins]

My question is, does PSA now make good on their grading guarantee and buy back that card from him at a genuine PSA 1.5 1915 CJ Connie Mack price?

They sure as hell should have to...

[Throttlesteer]

On a side note, I'm impressed he sent the card in June and already got it back

[swarmee]

My question is, does PSA now make good on their grading guarantee and buy back that card from him at a genuine PSA 1.5 1915 CJ Connie Mack price?

They sure as hell should have to...
Nope, the original submitter cannot make a claim on the grade guarantee. Someone would have to buy it and then make a claim.

[Rhotchkiss]

Dave Smith,

Sincere thanks for coming on here and telling your story - stories/incidents like these, posted on forums like this, help keep collectors’ eyes open and, sometimes, cause change in the hobby.

Ryan

[jchcollins]

Nope, the original submitter cannot make a claim on the grade guarantee. Someone would have to buy it and then make a claim.

Well that sucks.

[Exhibitman]

My question is, does PSA now make good on their grading guarantee and buy back that card from him at a genuine PSA 1.5 1915 CJ Connie Mack price?

They sure as hell should have to...

Well, they did once buy back a fake Babe Ruth RC that they graded. But times have changed and they don't need to care any longer.

[wazoo]

On a side note, I'm impressed he sent the card in June and already got it back

Lmfao I was thinking the same thing

[perezfan]

Well, they did once buy back a fake Babe Ruth RC that they graded. But times have changed and they don't need to care any longer.

Very sad but true.... They don't give two shits about the collector. It's only about profits, favoritism and stock price escalation. Truth be damned.

[jchcollins]

Very sad but true.... They don't give two shits about the collector. It's only about profits, favoritism and stock price escalation. Truth be damned.

I can't recall his name, maybe someone here does - but one of the guys on the FB groups is a fairly new VP at PSA/CU. He did post yesterday for the owner of that card to please contact him. I would hope they would make it right, but would agree this day in age - would not be surprised if they don't.

[perezfan]

I can't recall his name, maybe someone here does - but one of the guys on the FB groups is a fairly new VP at PSA/CU. He did post yesterday for the owner of that card to please contact him. I would hope they would make it right, but would agree this day in age - would not be surprised if they don't.

If PSA recalls the card, it serves to benefit themselves, first and foremost. They are not doing it because it's the right thing for the collector. They are doing it to squelch and hide their ineptitude by getting it off the market.

They are quick to hide and conceal their blunders on obvious fakes, but have no problem whatsoever keeping their more subtle bleached, recolored and trimmed cards in circulation... no matter how conclusive the before/after evidence of tampering and alteration.

[DWS44]

I can't recall his name, maybe someone here does - but one of the guys on the FB groups is a fairly new VP at PSA/CU. He did post yesterday for the owner of that card to please contact him. I would hope they would make it right, but would agree this day in age - would not be surprised if they don't.

Yes, the person you mention from PSA, or at least sounds like the same person, contacted me yesterday afternoon via ebay after someone tipped them off on FB to the listing. After passing a few brief emails, he is supposed to call me this afternoon to discuss. Not sure what to expect.

Have I mentioned it's been an interesting 24 hours?!?

[jchcollins]

Yes, the person you mention from PSA, or at least sounds like the same person, contacted me yesterday afternoon via ebay after someone tipped them off on FB to the listing. After passing a few brief emails, he is supposed to call me this afternoon to discuss. Not sure what to expect.

Have I mentioned it's been an interesting 24 hours?!?

I know others have said, but thank you again for posting here and the disclosure. I'm sure it's been interesting to say the least!

[Rhotchkiss]

Dave, you have done nothing wrong- you submitted a card to an “expert”, paid their fee, and they totally f-ed up and graded a reprint (not even a good one); and hell, you disclosed right on the submission form that you suspected it to be a reprint.

I have messaged you about this and you know where I stand, but my offer to buy the card and concomitant paperwork for 100% of whatever you have in it remains open.

[ullmandds]

Dave, you have done nothing wrong- you submitted a card to an “expert”, paid their fee, and they totally f-ed up and graded a reprint (not even a good one); and hell, you disclosed right on the submission form that you suspected it to be a reprint.

I have messaged you about this and you know where I stand, but my offer to buy the card and concomitant paperwork for 100% of whatever you have in it remains open.

+1...Nice, Ryan!!!!!!

[Cliff Bowman]

concomitant

That is the coolest word I have seen here since PS left.

[bnorth]

Dave, you have done nothing wrong- you submitted a card to an “expert”, paid their fee, and they totally f-ed up and graded a reprint (not even a good one); and hell, you disclosed right on the submission form that you suspected it to be a reprint.

I have messaged you about this and you know where I stand, but my offer to buy the card and concomitant paperwork for 100% of whatever you have in it remains open.

+1 that would be a cool card to own. I have owned 3 counterfeit PSA graded cards in the past.

[Jgrace]

+1 that would be a cool card to own. I have owned 3 counterfeit PSA graded cards in the past.


I own one - a fake 1991 Topps Desert Shield that got past PSA. That was before I learned to not take the authenticity of graded cards for granted.

[ruth-gehrig]

A counterfeit "authenticated" card thread with pictures sounds fun:)

[jchcollins]

What is PSA's move if he says "Sorry, you can't have it back." LOL.

[oldeboo]

Yeah, there has to be a lot of PSA authenticated counterfeit cards out there, would be neat to see them in one thread. I'd wager people would pay more than a PSA genuine card in some cases. Crazy world we live in.

[oldeboo]

What is PSA's move if he says "Sorry, you can't have it back." LOL.

PSA moves on, then a bidding war occurs here :)

[slightlyrounded]

https://www.net54baseball.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=423707&stc=1&d=1603821502

God bless this thread. Such an affirmation of my choice to mostly buy raw, despite all advice otherwise.

[jchcollins]

PSA moves on, then a bidding war occurs here :)

Sell it to your neighbor for $1. Then have the neighbor file under PSA's guarantee, LOL.

[jchcollins]

God bless this thread. Such an affirmation of my choice to mostly buy raw, despite all advice otherwise.

Buy raw all you want, but caveat emptor. If I'm buying raw, I would hope I know a hell of a lot more about 1915 Cracker Jack cards than PSA apparently does. :)

[Tao_Moko]

https://www.net54baseball.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=423707&stc=1&d=1603821502

God bless this thread. Such an affirmation of my choice to mostly buy raw, despite all advice otherwise.

Bravo! Looks a little more like ecce homo habilis.

[bnorth]

What is PSA's move if he says "Sorry, you can't have it back." LOL.

Just a guess. Remove the cert from their data base and sue him when someone else tries to cash in on the guarantee.

I would also guess after he talks to PSA we will not hear the details of what took place.:)

[jchcollins]

Just a guess. Remove the cert from their data base and sue him when someone else tries to cash in on the guarantee.

I would also guess after he talks to PSA we will not hear the details of what took place.:)

I would guess you are right on what happens after they talk to him. If I were PSA I would want to pay out under the guarantee (I know that a submitter is supposedly not eligible, whatever) or buy the card from him at a price worth his while to leave a good impression. But not sure they react that way. Yes, clearly this is not the first huge swing and miss PSA has had in the authenticity department. This is just the worst one I've seen aired publicly in a long time.

[CobbSpikedMe]

Hi Dave,

I just got around to reading your post explaining things and wanted to let you know that my own post about believing the card to have been switched was not meant to infer that you were the one who switched it out, but that at some point someone likely did. Sorry if you took it to mean I was questioning your integrity. I never meant to do that.

And thanks for posting the explanation.

Thanks,

Andy

[luciobar1980]

Scrolling down the thread I just knew that it would be found that PSA graded the card, and so many people here defending or not willing to believe the seller at first. SMH As if PSA has a spotless record, from either a moral or technical standpoint. I'm sure it was graded authentic as an honest mistake, which is crazy, but the way some people act as if PSA is beyond reproach, morally or technically, is beyond me.

[swarmee]

What is PSA's move if he says "Sorry, you can't have it back." LOL.
They retaliate by banning his account and ability submit cards in the future.

[Tyruscobb]

Yes, the person you mention from PSA, or at least sounds like the same person, contacted me yesterday afternoon via ebay after someone tipped them off on FB to the listing. After passing a few brief emails, he is supposed to call me this afternoon to discuss. Not sure what to expect.

Have I mentioned it's been an interesting 24 hours?!?

Inquiring minds want to know. What the heck did Mr. PSA say when he called you? What was the deal’s terms, or is it premised on confidentiality?

[perezfan]

Inquiring minds want to know. What the heck did Mr. PSA say when he called you? What was the deal’s terms, or is it premised on confidentiality?

I'd love to know as well... ASAP. Because once you make a deal with the devil, they'll swear you to secrecy.

Ryan's generous offer is probably the better one anyway.

[bnorth]

I'd love to know as well... ASAP. Because once you make a deal with the devil, they'll swear you to secrecy.

Ryan's generous offer is probably the better one anyway.

Pretty sure Ryan's break even offer is not even close to the best he has received.;)

[swarmee]

My bid of $50 seems to still be the mark inside of this thread. But I don't want the poor guy to be banned from PSA if he won't return it to them.

[conor912]

My bid of $50 seems to still be the mark inside of this thread. But I don't want the poor guy to be banned from PSA if he won't return it to them.

Are you saying you think PSA would ban him if he refused to send it to them?

[JollyElm]

Here are some updates to the graphic to help anyone that was confused. I think it's a little easier to understand, although it is very busy for 1 image, so I apologize.

For anyone struggling with identifying some of the commonly distributed doctored reprints, it's usually a good idea to just go on Ebay and search "Mack Cracker Jack Reprint," as an example, you'll find the common ones at least. Obviously, there are ones much more sophisticated than these.

That graphic works better, and spells it out more clearly. The busy-ness is fine, methinks, but I do have one last piece of advice to think about. Sorry. With regards to the PSA authenticated Dover reprint, someone seeing the graphic may not realize that PSA thought it was an original CJ card, know what I mean? Looking at it in a vacuum, someone may think that the graphic shown is a closeup of a card with a PSA label stating that it is a reprint. Perhaps I'm too much of a perfectionist, but it is worth mentioning.

[oldeboo]

That graphic works better, and spells it out more clearly. The busy-ness is fine, methinks, but I do have one last piece of advice to think about. Sorry. With regards to the PSA authenticated Dover reprint, someone seeing the graphic may not realize that PSA thought it was an original CJ card, know what I mean? Looking at it in a vacuum, someone may think that the graphic shown is a closeup of a card with a PSA label stating that it is a reprint. Perhaps I'm too much of a perfectionist, but it is worth mentioning.

Understand, no doubt. When I first discovered this card on Ebay, I was the first one to post about it in another thread, then this one was created and I added the same two images. The first one was of the front and back of the whole slab, then the variation of the second image to point out how it was indeed a Dover Reprint. That was my only intent. I just wanted to show it so people could see it closer, although someone who is legally blind could see those perforations and all of the issues. I figured there would be a heavy resistance from people who love PSA and they would say that the card was either simply questionable or a doctored slab. My intent was to show the whole slab to show that there was no apparent doctoring and details of the card to show why it wasn't genuine. Certainly don't want it to be deceiving at all, but don't want to really change it again unless someone really needs it. :)

I mean what is this card? A reprint? A forgery? Yeah, sure PSA thinks it's genuine, but I'd rather call it what it is...a reprint, albeit doctored.

It's plenty clear enough in this thread that PSA was fooled by a terrible reprint and did not put reprint on the slab. They were just plain fooled and couldn't detect the card with their expertise.

I added the whole slab picture back into the above and edited this in:
"Edit: to be clear, the card which is slabbed is identified in the graphic as "PSA Authenticated 1915 Cracker Jack Dover Reprint." This card has been determined to be a Dover Reprint card by this board. PSA deemed it to be a genuine 1915 Cracker Jack card."

[swarmee]

Are you saying you think PSA would ban him if he refused to send it to them?
I wouldn't put it past them. But your mileage may vary. PSA is very good at banning people.

[Rhotchkiss]

John, can you post a link to your thread about this in blowout? I cannot find it (I find that site overwhelming and I am dumb- a tuff combination). Thanks

[swarmee]

Here is the thread for this card by itself.
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1420775

I had bumped these two threads about other PSA misdeeds and someone else thought this was worthy of its own thread.
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1419183 Page 3 has the Connie Mack

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1308245 Page 7

[bnorth]

John, can you post a link to your thread about this in blowout? I cannot find it (I find that site overwhelming and I am dumb- a tuff combination). Thanks

Not sure if there is another but here is one. https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1420775

[Seven]

Not sure if there is another but here is one. https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1420775

Dear Lord, the level that some of the most ardent PSA defenders will stoop to is staggering.

[drcy]

The most obvious part is the white on his shirt is so much whiter than the borders. They should be no difference, as, on the original cards, the white is the lack of any ink on the cardstock.

[bnorth]

Dear Lord, the level that some of the most ardent PSA defenders will stoop to is staggering.

My favorite is how some that said it was a altered slab admitted they were wrong. Gotta respect those posters for admitting they were wrong. Then others just went poof because they are special.:rolleyes:

[Rhotchkiss]

Thanks John

[DWS44]

Howdy gang...me again.

I would also guess after he talks to PSA we will not hear the details of what took place.:)

I'll keep sharing until someone tells me to shut up. :)

Sorry for the delay...I was off yesterday, but today I was back to my day job and dealing with the card as I could around real work.

Late this afternoon, the VP from PSA called me as promised. It wasn't a very long conversation. He led off with apologies for the situation and to make a long story short, basically said mistakes happen, everyone is human, and so on. He said that he personally was not a grader, just coming from a collecting background. He asked me to email him the full details that I know of my history with the card and pics of the card, which I just did within the last half-hour or so. He said that once he received that, they would be sending me a pre-paid FedEx label to get the card back to them for re-examination to again determine if real or not. He noted that with the overwhelming outcry over the card, that the odds of it being real were pretty low (duh). He said if PSA still deemed to be real, it would be returned to me noting their findings. If determined to be reprint/counterfeit/fake, then I "would be compensated". He didn't go into any detail, and I didn't dig any deeper than that.

I asked about timeframe, noting how long it took to go through the process the first time and that I wasn't terribly interested in going back to the tail end of the line. He said it would not go through the normal processing, but would be a priority once received. Who knows...guess I'll see.

At this point, I have been contacted here and on ebay by several individuals wanting to buy the card as-is, for various reasons. I appreciate the interest and the stated goals of those that mentioned them, and mean no disrespect to anyone. I personally am more comfortable sending the card back and letting the PSA side of it play out. If for some reason they return the card back still saying it is real, then game on. If they attempt to make me whole and keep the card, so be it. If the card comes back in any other form, I'll just offer it back up for sale with the full story that its been through and let it ride. I do appreciate everyone's help on the board here and will keep in touch as things unfold as long as I am able to do so. There has been no mention of non-disclosure or anything like that, but if one comes along, I'll cross that bridge when I get there.

[DWS44]

but one of the guys on the FB groups

I mean to ask earlier...if possible, would you mind sharing (or PM) a link to the FB discussion on the card? I generally don't associate much with social media, but it might be interesting to read the discussion.


I just got around to reading your post... Sorry if you took it to mean I was questioning your integrity. I never meant to do that.

No offense taken. The way things were playing out, I don't blame anyone for questioning the situation.

Here are some updates to the graphic to help anyone that was confused.

Nice graphics that you put together...hopefully they help others to not do what I did with mine. One small point of correction if it is of any value...the area you note as "light" across the bottom of the card is actually just a reflection of the plastic liner inside the case. The darker color is consistent through the bottom of the card. If it really had that lighter area, it would have probably made it even more suspicious beforehand.

If you all want to play with some pics...here are a couple of original shots that I took of the card before sending it off:

https://imgur.com/GcHWZsE

https://imgur.com/VGYfNem

I also took one more in good light showing the bottom of the card in the PSA case that came out with less reflection from the liner:

https://imgur.com/UyiXKKT

[oldeboo]

Thank you for continuing to share your story. I'm sure you were initially excited to learn it was deemed genuine to then watch it snowball into this. You've certainly had an interesting dabble into the grading world. I'm sure they'll do what they have to do to get it off the market. That's probably the best thing and can't fault your decision. I'm positive anyone here would only want it as a novelty and keep it at that, but eventually at some point down the road it would be inherited or what have you and cause issues again.

[bnorth]

Thank you for continuing to share your story. I'm sure you were initially excited to learn it was deemed genuine to then watch it snowball into this. You've certainly had an interesting dabble into the grading world. I'm sure they'll do what they have to do to get it off the market. That's probably the best thing and can't fault your decision. I'm positive anyone here would only want it as a novelty and keep it at that, but eventually at some point down the road it would be inherited or what have you and cause issues again.

+1 to pretty much everything posted above.

I would like to have the card but honestly sending it back to PSA would be by far the best for you. Unless you have something in a email from them guaranteeing what you will get if deemed bad you will get little to nothing for all your trouble. That NDA is coming.:D

Have a great evening and thank you again for sharring your story.

[slightlyrounded]

I wonder what SGC would pay you for it? Seems like pretty good material for an ad campaign. 😛

[MuncieNolePAZ]

Thanks for sharing your story.

[ullmandds]

I wonder what SGC would pay you for it? Seems like pretty good material for an ad campaign. 😛

YESSSSS! That would GUARANTEE a ban from PSA for sure!!!!

Auction to the highest bidder!

[BabyRuth]

Grading companies make mistakes - I don't believe it!!

[jchcollins]

I mean to ask earlier...if possible, would you mind sharing (or PM) a link to the FB discussion on the card? I generally don't associate much with social media, but it might be interesting to read the discussion.


The one group I know it was mentioned in on Facebook was the PSA traders Keep It Real group. I don't know if I can link the thread directly, but here is the link to the group:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/PSACARDS/

[Rhotchkiss]

Grading companies make mistakes - I don't believe it!!

Not all mistakes are created equal. Remember, PSA states that at least 2, often 3, people review each card before it is entered into their system - that is their “quality control”. That should minimize mistakes, yet some naturally will still get through.

In this case, however, a clear reprint of a 1915 Cracker Jack ran the quality control gauntlet- nobody noticed the different card stock, the perforated edges, or the fact that the writing on the back is upside down, among several other “smoking gun” tip offs. This means that either (1) PSA lies about quality control and only one person graded this and that person is wholly incompetent to grade 1915 cracker jacks, or (2) three wholly incompetent people looked at this card.

Any way you slice it, this is a massive mistake by the self-proclaimed leader and expert of card authentication and the company that tells us to “never get cheated”

[notfast]

Keying in the wrong year or variation is a mistake.

Slabbing a fake card is gross incompetence.

[perezfan]

Howdy gang...me again.



I'll keep sharing until someone tells me to shut up. :)

Sorry for the delay...I was off yesterday, but today I was back to my day job and dealing with the card as I could around real work.

Late this afternoon, the VP from PSA called me as promised. It wasn't a very long conversation. He led off with apologies for the situation and to make a long story short, basically said mistakes happen, everyone is human, and so on. He said that he personally was not a grader, just coming from a collecting background. He asked me to email him the full details that I know of my history with the card and pics of the card, which I just did within the last half-hour or so. He said that once he received that, they would be sending me a pre-paid FedEx label to get the card back to them for re-examination to again determine if real or not. He noted that with the overwhelming outcry over the card, that the odds of it being real were pretty low (duh). He said if PSA still deemed to be real, it would be returned to me noting their findings. If determined to be reprint/counterfeit/fake, then I "would be compensated". He didn't go into any detail, and I didn't dig any deeper than that.

I asked about timeframe, noting how long it took to go through the process the first time and that I wasn't terribly interested in going back to the tail end of the line. He said it would not go through the normal processing, but would be a priority once received. Who knows...guess I'll see.

At this point, I have been contacted here and on ebay by several individuals wanting to buy the card as-is, for various reasons. I appreciate the interest and the stated goals of those that mentioned them, and mean no disrespect to anyone. I personally am more comfortable sending the card back and letting the PSA side of it play out. If for some reason they return the card back still saying it is real, then game on. If they attempt to make me whole and keep the card, so be it. If the card comes back in any other form, I'll just offer it back up for sale with the full story that its been through and let it ride. I do appreciate everyone's help on the board here and will keep in touch as things unfold as long as I am able to do so. There has been no mention of non-disclosure or anything like that, but if one comes along, I'll cross that bridge when I get there.

Whatever they initially offer you for buying back the card, I would insist on double their amount. They would be even bigger idiots if they are petty enough to deny you. And even if they did, I'm pretty sure you would do better in the open market.

[notfast]

Do not send the card back without working out a financial agreement “if” the deem it fake.

That card will never see the light of day once you ship it to them. Ball will be in their court once they have it in hand.

[Fuddjcal]

Thanks for sharing the story Dave. Wow. Can't make this stuff up. I would never give those crooks the card back to "make you whole". What's that, 40 bucks? I'd much rather just keep the card and tell PSA to go F themselves for the trouble they caused you having to answer too every Tom, Dick and bigger Dick.. Hold it for Ransom. It's all fake anyway, like I've said a million times. But that's just me, Mr. congeniality;) Nobody cares, especially PSA.

[tiger8mush]

Agreed, I'd keep it. Start a registry :)

[perezfan]

Yes, agree... don’t let them have it back. Just not worth it to let them off the hook that easy. The same hook they manage to wiggle off of time and again.

I have never seen a company so corrupt, that continually manages to avoid any negative consequences or loss of business due to their ineptitude. It’s probably worth a few grand for them to get it back, but am guessing their offer will be a tiny fraction of that amount.

[ullmandds]

Yes, agree... don’t let them have it back. Just not worth it to let them off the hook that easy. The same hook they manage to wiggle off of time and again.

I have never seen a company so corrupt, that continually manages to avoid any negative consequences or loss of business due to their ineptitude. It’s probably worth a few grand for them to get it back, but am guessing their offer will be a tiny fraction of that amount.

Agreed! The hobby needs an action like this. Make a spectacle of it!!!

[swarmee]

Ah, the photographs already exist. Maybe put it on a t-shirt for the next National? ;-)

[pitchernut]

I'd auction it off on our very own BST Auction.

[conor912]

I think you set up at the next National with just that one card in your case.

[egbeachley]

It didn’t it’s a screwed with case. Seriously just read the thread.

Enablers are what keeps the PSA fraud going.

[Peter_Spaeth]

The occasional blatant mistake is far less concerning to me than the apparent regular practice of missing, or looking past, vast numbers of altered cards.

[Directly]

Grading question--if a baseball card was cleaned/bleached what's the best any bleached card should grade if it appears to be a 5--a PR1 or 5 ?

[Kidnapped18]

At least this one is real...just mislabeled
(PSA labeled this one a 1915 CJ but the back clearly shows its a 1914 CJ)

[Bcwcardz]

I wouldn’t trust them. They want to buy back their mistake. I would hang on to it until they actual had some more concrete terms for compensation. PSA hasn’t been known as trustworthy. It’s just my opinion and I hope everything goes well for the owner of said card.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Stampsfan]

Buy raw all you want, but caveat emptor. If I'm buying raw, I would hope I know a hell of a lot more about 1915 Cracker Jack cards than PSA apparently does. :)
That would not be difficult, as the bar on what they know appears to be quite low.

They retaliate by banning his account and ability submit cards in the future.
You say that like it’s a bad thing. I always come back to if PSA were a doctor, lawyer, mechanic, dentist, or anyone in almost any other profession. You pay good money for an analysis of your item. When they miss, it’s “just an opinion”. If anyone else in any business came back to you and said “Well, it’s really just my opinion” after messing up the diagnosis, you’d never go back to them. For some reason our hobby keeps forgiving them for their errors.

[oldeboo]

At least this one is real...just mislabeled
(PSA labeled this one a 1915 CJ but the back clearly shows its a 1914 CJ)

Good find, another simply silly mistake on that one. I'll post a few more I find interesting. Keep in mind, this is only a snapshot of what is currently available to see on Ebay. There is probably much worse tucked away in collections. None are as bad as that counterfeit probably, but still silly mistakes.

[oldeboo]

This is an interesting one. It has a few things going for it. First off, it's graded as a 2. I'd have a hard time with that considering the damage on the back, but that's just an opinion. Ignoring that, yup, it's a 1915 in a 1914 holder as well.

[oldeboo]

This one needs little introduction as it was posted in another thread previously, but it's hard not to show it again. This one needs little explanation.

[oldeboo]

This one isn't as bad as the one above, but once again, scissors to the corners. Sure doesn't look natural given the overall condition.

[oldeboo]

This one jumps out like a sore thumb. The borders on the top, bottom, and left look pretty even. That right edge though, yikes.

[oldeboo]

This actually is a 1915, but it was put in the holder the wrong direction being a horizontal card. That is a minor mistake.

[oldeboo]

Pretty common to goof up the horizontals I guess. Wayyyyy too many to show all of them.

[oldeboo]

Here's one that bugs me with the MC designation because it's cut just fine. It's a printing error, not cutting.

[swarmee]

PSA's definition of the MC qualifier includes ones where the image falls off the edge or image from another card is visible on this one. I think the slight red at the top left border is why it got the MC. I think based on the blatant registration issues that it should have gotten the OF (out of focus) qualifier instead. But all qualifiers count the same.

[perezfan]

Some excellent examples of total failure there...

Posts 135, 136 and 137 are all blatantly altered and none should have received a numerical grade. Anyone who thinks that is normal corner wear is dreaming.

If a normal person submitted those cards, they could expect to receive nothing other than an "A".

Pathetic.

[Kidnapped18]

This was my very first Cracker Jack...I had to learn real fast the differences between a 1914 CJ and a 1915 CJ
(Mislabeled 1914 CJ...back clearly shows it is a 1915 CJ)

[steve B]

My prediction on the "offer" is a voucher for another grading.

[bnorth]

My prediction on the "offer" is a voucher for another grading.

That was my prediction also. If he sends it in first before having it in a email/writing exactly what he will get. He will be lucky to get the voucher.

[Kidnapped18]

I have seen PSA 1s and 2s look better visually. This is a very bad PSA 5!
Does anyone really think this is a legit 5? Card is way off center, one side is very jagged and the other side looks trimmed. (I do not own this card, it is in someone else's collection)

[oldeboo]

Needle sharp corners on one side, dull and rounded on the other side. Major red flag when grading. Wonder why they didn't just trim off the ragged left side too.

[swarmee]

Could be a very old grade reholdered 3-5 years ago into a hologram flip. Very odd edge wear though.

[DWS44]

Latest Update...

The card is on its way back to PSA for the rest of the song and dance. Got a follow-up call from their "Chief of Staff" (LOL) yesterday afternoon and she emailed a label for FedEx overnight. Supposedly she is handling the card upon arrival and it is supposed to go straight to their top grader. I forgot his fancy title. She pretty much led off that I didn't qualify for their "guarantee" since I was the one who submitted it. No shock there. Assuming its declared a fake, I get a refund of the PSA fees I paid and she offered me all of a free PSA membership of some sort and maybe a few free grades, all of which I told her was pretty much useless to me at this point. Already sold most of my high-value cards that would have gotten any benefit from that anyways. Pretty much as everyone expected...the price you pay for trying to go the honest route, I suppose.

Anyways...that's where it stands. Now back to your regularly-scheduled PSA Screw Up Gallery already in progress! :D

[oldeboo]

Latest Update...

The card is on its way back to PSA for the rest of the song and dance. Got a follow-up call from their "Chief of Staff" (LOL) yesterday afternoon and she emailed a label for FedEx overnight. Supposedly she is handling the card upon arrival and it is supposed to go straight to their top grader. I forgot his fancy title. She pretty much led off that I didn't qualify for their "guarantee" since I was the one who submitted it. No shock there. Assuming its declared a fake, I get a refund of the PSA fees I paid and she offered me all of a free PSA membership of some sort and maybe a few free grades, all of which I told her was pretty much useless to me at this point. Already sold most of my high-value cards that would have gotten any benefit from that anyways. Pretty much as everyone expected...the price you pay for trying to go the honest route, I suppose.

Anyways...that's where it stands. Now back to your regularly-scheduled PSA Screw Up Gallery already in progress! :D

Wow!

[ullmandds]

Latest Update...

The card is on its way back to PSA for the rest of the song and dance. Got a follow-up call from their "Chief of Staff" (LOL) yesterday afternoon and she emailed a label for FedEx overnight. Supposedly she is handling the card upon arrival and it is supposed to go straight to their top grader. I forgot his fancy title. She pretty much led off that I didn't qualify for their "guarantee" since I was the one who submitted it. No shock there. Assuming its declared a fake, I get a refund of the PSA fees I paid and she offered me all of a free PSA membership of some sort and maybe a few free grades, all of which I told her was pretty much useless to me at this point. Already sold most of my high-value cards that would have gotten any benefit from that anyways. Pretty much as everyone expected...the price you pay for trying to go the honest route, I suppose.

Anyways...that's where it stands. Now back to your regularly-scheduled PSA Screw Up Gallery already in progress! :D

Seeing as you had nothing to lose/gain from PSA...you really should not have returned the card to them...oh well?

[tiger8mush]

Assuming its declared a fake, I get a refund of the PSA fees I paid and she offered me all of a free PSA membership of some sort and maybe a few free grades, all of which I told her was pretty much useless to me at this point.

Splitting hairs, but it's not a fake. Its an altered & artificially aged 1982(?) Dover Reprint.

[Eric72]

If all the original submitter will get is a membership they won’t use, why not:

1- Keep the card as a curiosity

OR

2- Auction it here

[conor912]

If all the original submitter will get is a membership they won’t use, why not:

1- Keep the card as a curiosity

OR

2- Auction it here

As someone mentioned, anything other than destroying it all but ensures that at some point it would re-emerge into the hobby and cause more problems. Despite feeling like the OP got hosed, it was the right thing to do for the hobby.

[ullmandds]

Splitting hairs, but it's not a fake. Its an altered & artificially aged 1982(?) Dover Reprint.

right! it would not surprise me if the card were returned to the owner slabbed...wait for it...it's psa's favorite..."questionable authenticity!"

[Eric72]

As someone mentioned, anything other than destroying it all but ensures that at some point it would reemergence into the hobby and cause more problems. Despite feeling like the OP got hosed, it was the right thing to do for the hobby.

You’re right, of course. I’m curious, though. What will PSA do with this card if they determine it was their error?

[Rookiemonster]

How can shady stuff like this continue to happen? Card collectors keep falling for the same old crap.

[swarmee]

You’re right, of course. I’m curious, though. What will PSA do with this card if they determine it was their error?
Well, they can destroy it and remove the cert number once they reimburse the owner. It's a beat up 1970s reprint card. No value.

[DWS44]

Just in case anyone was on pins and needles for PSA's review today, by the time the delivery got routed to the person looking out for it, the grand poobah of grading had left for the day...so that's that until Monday.

[swarmee]

I hope he's thrown off by the time change and deems it REAL again. That would be bananas! ;-) Nah, that's as likely as it getting through the first time.

[Exhibitman]

A while ago there was someone on eBay who had a major PSA screw-up, didn't like their offer to fix it, and posted it on eBay over and over again with a very high BIN basically trolling PSA. I think it was a Heinie Wagner labeled a Honus.

[shagrotn77]

I'm sure of 2 things:

PSA is aware of this thread
The card will be destroyed

I don't have any inside knowledge, but those are certainties IMO. As for how the owner will be compensated. Who knows? It would be in PSA's best interests to make the owner happy, but they don't always do the right thing.

[steve B]

Just in case anyone was on pins and needles for PSA's review today, by the time the delivery got routed to the person looking out for it, the grand poobah of grading had left for the day...so that's that until Monday.

Probably looked it up and went "Ah S*** that's one I did... Hey, taking off early, gotta headache... "

[Fred]

A while ago there was someone on eBay who had a major PSA screw-up, didn't like their offer to fix it, and posted it on eBay over and over again with a very high BIN basically trolling PSA. I think it was a Heinie Wagner labeled a Honus.

Do you mean this one:

https://www.net54baseball.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=424190&stc=1&d=1604125494

It's not mine, but it's funny as hell...

[CobbSpikedMe]

Do you mean this one:

https://www.net54baseball.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=424190&stc=1&d=1604125494

It's not mine, but it's funny as hell...

Is that in the PSA pop reports as a legit Honus Wagner?

[swarmee]

Is that in the PSA pop reports as a legit Honus Wagner?

The certification number provided, #11839843, has been intentionally DEACTIVATED in the database.

https://www.psacard.com/cert/11839843

[Fred]

I'm pretty sure there are more than a few certs that have been intentionally deactivated/removed due to a small inaccuracy.

[Fred]

Here's another fun T206 Big 4 Blunder. At least with Heine they got the card designation correct.

https://www.net54baseball.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=424200&stc=1&d=1604153920

Again, not mine, but funny as hell.

[swarmee]

That's a Caramel card, right?

So for all four of the Big 4, I'd have to believe PSA screwed all of them up over the years.
Did they mess up a Doyle and assign it the wrong variation?
And did they authenticate an altered MAGEE as a MAGIE?

[t206fanatic]

Ted posted that theres a PSA graded Doyle Error with PB back, which is an impossible combination -- but I have never seen it.

[oldeboo]

I sometimes wonder if these are actually screw ups or PSA messing with us. I envision in my dreams the 3 people grading a card, sitting in circle and saying "you know what I'm gonna put this Heine in a Honus Wagner slab." "HAAA, good one Mike, can't wait til that hits the internet." "I've got one better, I'm going to encapsulate this conterfeit!!!" "Ohh they'll love that too, good thinkin Jim"

If only it were so simple..

[Fred]

That's a Caramel card, right?

So for all four of the Big 4, I'd have to believe PSA screwed all of them up over the years.
Did they mess up a Doyle and assign it the wrong variation?
And did they authenticate an altered MAGEE as a MAGIE?

I believe it's an E95.

[Fred]

The guy that graded the T206 Heine must have also graded this one...

https://www.net54baseball.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=424261&stc=1&d=1604174566

Wait, there's more... another of the T206 Toughies...

https://www.net54baseball.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=424262&stc=1&d=1604174713

[CrackaJackKid]

Been back at PSA over 24hrs now and still no word from them....anyone else surprised?

[DWS44]

Been back at PSA over 24hrs now and still no word from them....anyone else surprised?

Yup...not a peep since the "first thing Monday" response I got back on Friday. :rolleyes:

[conor912]

I’d be surprised if we hear anything else. If I was PSA I would want this to go away as quickly and quietly as possible. The card will be destroyed, the OP will get his vouchers, and that will be the end of it.

[perezfan]

Don't get your hopes up. They will squelch this major gaffe just as they've done with all the others. Slimy as hell...

Card never should have been sent back to them for the pittance they offered.

[ullmandds]

I’d be surprised if we hear anything else. If I was PSA I would want this to go away as quickly and quietly as possible. The card will be destroyed, the OP will get his vouchers, and that will be the end of it.

yup...saw this a mile away...maybe next time things will be different?

[DWS44]

After I emailed to ask if it was "first thing on Monday" yet, the lady called me. As expected, they realized it was a "reprint", no other details given. All very matter of fact. Said she would process a refund for my $34 and if I wanted they'd return my raw card. Again started into offering some platinum membership and free grades, and when I said that wasn't of any use, that was that. I just hung up...tired of thinking about it.

Anyways...thus ends the saga...so I'll take off. Thanks for allowing me to tell the story.

[bnorth]

After I emailed to ask if it was "first thing on Monday" yet, the lady called me. As expected, they realized it was a "reprint", no other details given. All very matter of fact. Said she would process a refund for my $34 and if I wanted they'd return my raw card. Again started into offering some platinum membership and free grades, and when I said that wasn't of any use, that was that. I just hung up...tired of thinking about it.

Anyways...thus ends the saga...so I'll take off. Thanks for allowing me to tell the story.

Thanks for sharing and have a great evening.

[Exhibitman]

Yeah that's about how we all figured it would go down. I wish I could just refund some fees and walk away if I screw up a client's case but that is the prerogative of kings and those who own the Registry.

It's good to be a monopoly.

https://photos.imageevent.com/exhibitman/dropins/good_to_be_king.jpg

[luciobar1980]

Wow, you definitely should have kept it and flaunted it.

[Madi$on18joshua]

I cant wait to hear what they offer you, I would think it would be substantial. I could see SGC paying $5k for it and starting a marketing campaign around why all TPG aren't the same.

[oldeboo]

I cant wait to hear what they offer you, I would think it would be substantial. I could see SGC paying $5k for it and starting a marketing campaign around why all TPG aren't the same.

He said 34 bucks, which were his fees

[bnorth]

I cant wait to hear what they offer you, I would think it would be substantial. I could see SGC paying $5k for it and starting a marketing campaign around why all TPG aren't the same.

I would bet big that SGC wouldn't want to open that can of worms. They have had some pretty big mistakes also. I am far from a fan of their lawyer but he is damn good at his job, can't see him telling them it would be a good idea.

[DWS44]

I could see SGC paying $5k

The estimates keep getting higher and higher since I sent it back and got squat. Before long I'll have screwed myself out of a new house and car. :D hehe

[jingram058]

I have old cards, all of them raw, ungraded. I do not want them graded. I have had many trade offers for some of the cards I have. The only trades I have followed through on are raw cards-for-cards, no money involved. Most recently, quite a few 1959-60-61 and several 1962 Topps stars/HOF's for an equitable number of 1952 Topps and 1953 Bowman color. Everything was above board. Checked with loupe, blacklight, hands on examination and "feel". Can't do that with a big PSA or whoever slab. I like to "hands on" my cards, like I did as a kid. No stress, no obsessive worries. We both walked away from our trade happy as we could be. I've read through this whole ordeal, and cannot help but wonder if this old card could have been ID'ed real or fake right up front without the PSA slab?

[swarmee]

Looks like there are even more embarrassing fakes in PSA slabs, take a look at the Tip Top Bread thread.

[swarmee]

I've read through this whole ordeal, and cannot help but wonder if this old card could have been ID'ed real or fake right up front without the PSA slab?
The perforations by themselves made it an obvious reprint. All the others things wrong about it (cardstock, erasure over REPRINT, wear, coloration, print quality) would only take an extra few seconds for most experts to deem it fake, no matter whether it was slabbed or not.

[Fred]

Should have kept it or auctioned it off. I bet there would have been a few people here willing to put up some cash for it. I'd have paid a hundred for it easy!

[Cliff Bowman]

Looks like there are even more embarrassing fakes in PSA slabs, take a look at the Tip Top Bread thread.

Where is that thread?

[oldeboo]

Where is that thread?

https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=291365

[swarmee]

https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=291365

[ullmandds]

Should have kept it or auctioned it off. I bet there would have been a few people here willing to put up some cash for it. I'd have paid a hundred for it easy!

And what auction house would have the balls to auction that card off??

[oldeboo]

And what auction house would have the balls to auction that card off??

Net54 b/s/t auction :D

[Fred]

Net54 b/s/t auction :D

Ding, ding, ding.

Honestly, how many people here would have bid on it? I know I would have made a spirited attempt to get it.

[Rhotchkiss]

The estimates keep getting higher and higher since I sent it back and got squat. Before long I'll have screwed myself out of a new house and car. :D hehe

Yes Dave, you messed up (with all due respect). You let PSA off easy. At worst, you could have sold it to someone like me who would have posted it here regularly to remind the world of how psa ensures we never get cheated. But instead, you let them off the hook for $34. It was your (reprint) card, so of course you are/were free to do with it as you choose. I just do not agree with your choice.

Ryan

[oldeboo]

Ding, ding, ding.

Honestly, how many people here would have bid on it? I know I would have made a spirited attempt to get it.

I think about 5 people in this thread showed public interest. I'm sure there were at least 10 more waiting in the wings.

Next up is that reprint Tip Top 😊

[conor912]

Yes Dave, you fucked up (with all due respect). You let PSA off easy. At worst, you could have sold it to someone like me who would have posted it here regularly to remind the world of how psa ensures we never get cheated. But instead, you let them off the hook for $34. It was your (reprint) card, so of course you are/were free to do with it as you choose. I just do not agree with your choice.

Ryan

Dave made his intentions clear and everyone had ample time to make him an offer he couldn't refuse. No one did, so he went through with his stated plan. He was doing what he thought was right, regardless of possible financial gain or being complicit in the forwarding the anti-PSA agenda so pervasive in some pockets here.

IMO anyone who, for any reason, owns and refuses to crack out a single PSA card, shouldn't cast stones here.

[Fred]

Dave made his intentions clear and everyone had ample time to make him an offer he couldn't refuse. No one did, so he went through with his stated plan. He was doing what he thought was right, regardless of possible financial gain or being complicit in the forwarding the anti-PSA agenda so pervasive in some pockets here.

IMO anyone who, for any reason, owns and refuses to crack out a single PSA card, shouldn't cast stones here.

I see an honest opinion. Frankly, I kinda agree with it. I may not have said "you fucked up" (and it was written "with all due respect"), but yeah, I kinda think he fucked up. Anyway, the owner sees the humor in it because he's posted that he's not going to be able to retire off of the cash he would have gotten for it. :p

Perhaps repeatedly poking fun at the TPGs by posting that glaring mistake, over and over again might actually make them try harder (not to FUCK UP). Ok, perhaps that's a stretch...

[oldeboo]

Perhaps repeatedly poking fun at the TPGs by posting that glaring mistake, over and over again might actually make them try harder (not to FUCK UP). Ok, perhaps that's a stretch...

Means absolutely nothing. People are lined up at the doors of PSA and wrapped around the building about ten times with wallets wide open. PSA is struggling to take that cash fast enough right now. If they can shave a second or two off each assesment they have a clear incentive.

[bnorth]

I think about 5 people in this thread showed public interest. I'm sure there were at least 10 more waiting in the wings.

Next up is that reprint Tip Top 😊

I did more than show interest in the thread. I would have also been part of some spirited bidding if it was in the BST auction section.

I sold all my slabbed cards but a few "special" slabbed cards in the last year. By special I mean I have 2 Beckett test slabs from before they ever graded a card for the public, Special event slabs that they come slabbed(no grade), a couple PSA test slabs, and a PSA mistake(don't everyone have one of those).LOL

[Fred]

Just curious, how much would people have bid on that CJ? I'd honestly have gone up to a couple hundred. Yeah, sounds stupid, but then again, I'm not "the brightest tool in the shed."

Fess up, how much would people have paid for the CJ?

The reason I wanted it is because CJs are a very popular set and that was just so frigging funny.

I've got a T201 slabbed by reputable TPG that is folded in half in the slab. You can't see the whole card. I saw it on ebay years back and I had to have it. I didn't need it. I just had to have it - it's just absurd.

[Gorditadogg]

Dave, thanks for sharing your very interesting story. You gotta realize that most people on this site are full of poop. Nobody was goong to get into a bidding war over that card.

I hope you keep your Dover reprint and enjoy it.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[bnorth]

Just curious, how much would people have bid on that CJ? I'd honestly have gone up to a couple hundred. Yeah, sounds stupid, but then again, I'm not "the brightest tool in the shed."

Fess up, how much would people have paid for the CJ?

The reason I wanted it is because CJs are a very popular set and that was just so frigging funny.

I've got a T201 slabbed by reputable TPG that is folded in half in the slab. You can't see the whole card. I saw it on ebay years back and I had to have it. I didn't need it. I just had to have it - it's just absurd.

I was in the same price range as this, couple hundred. Mainly because it was the card and paperwork.

I am a huge error and variation collector and really like the 89 Fleer Bill Ripken errors. The PSA card I kept it a PSA 9 Bill Ripken White Out version. They sell in the $700-$1000 range. Problem is it is really a Black Box version in the slab. In PSA 9 you can regularly own one for less than $10.

[bnorth]

Dave, thanks for sharing your very interesting story. You gotta realize that most people on this site are full of poop. Nobody was goong to get into a bidding war over that card.

I hope you keep your Dover reprint and enjoy it.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

I can guarantee you are WRONG.

[Fred]

Concur

[steve B]

IMO anyone who, for any reason, owns and refuses to crack out a single PSA card, shouldn't cast stones here.

This doesn't make sense to me. what good does cracking out a card do? If it's a horribly comical mistake, cracking it out ruins it. If it's all good, then all cracking it out does is make it more likely someone will give the clueless company money to look at it again.

I have a handful of PSA cards, maybe 5 or 6. I've given them all a good look, and aside from slight disagreement over one grade I think they got those few correct.

Heck, I haven't bothered cracking this Acu-Card example that I'm sure is trimmed on all four sides. (I'd be very happy to be proven wrong but I'm not. )
https://www.net54baseball.com/picture.php?albumid=123&pictureid=6171

[DWS44]

right! it would not surprise me if the card were returned to the owner slabbed...wait for it...it's psa's favorite..."questionable authenticity!"

Got the return package back last night and you were close...not slabbed, but in a card saver with PSA sticker across the front with "? AUTHTCT"...

https://imgur.com/KjMIow6

They tossed in a few "extras" in the return package. Two books, a PSA Card Display/Frame, Magazine, and a ballcap...

https://imgur.com/DUNpOp5

It'll all be up on ebay at some point soon if anyone sees something they can't live without. lol

[oldeboo]

Sick hat :D

[DWS44]

Sick hat :D

I haven't tried it on to see it if fits or not. :D

[MikeGarcia]

I haven't tried it on to see it if fits or not. :D


...are there any autographs on that cap ? "Joe" ??..."Brent"" ??

..

[nsaddict]

Card is relisted with update.

[oldeboo]

The gift that keeps on giving. The person that bought it must have conveniently lost the ?AUTHTCT label that was included when they purchased it for 9 bucks a few weeks ago. :D

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1915-Connie-Mack-Cracker-Jack-Card-Philadelphia-Americans/254804579895?hash=item3b53895637:g:xRIAAOSw~bxf0rv U

...lost the ?AUTHTCT label after no takers at $2,297

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1915-Cracker-Jack-Connie-Mack-Baseball-Card-Philadelphia-Americans-/254785384559?hash=item3b5264706f%3Ag%3A9vsAAOSwVzt fuYIH&nma=true&si=3k8uqcSnoYzLkvDMEVWmaSoGUp8%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557