Will sellers continue to sell on Ebay under the new EBAY MANAGED PAYMENTS??

[bobbyw8469]

Just curious what my fellow card members thought about the new change that Ebay is ramming down our throats in a month.

[Seven]

Just curious what my fellow card members thought about the new change that Ebay is ramming down our throats in a month.

For the uninitiated, because I don't sell on Ebay, what exactly is the upcoming change?

[Leon]

What is this in a nutshell?

[MikeKam]

From what I understand, eBay is effectively moving off of PayPal as it's main payment processor and beginning to process payments themselves. This requires users to now provide direct deposit information to receive payments.

[Snapolit1]

From what I understand, eBay is effectively moving off of PayPal as it's main payment processor and beginning to process payments themselves. This requires users to now provide direct deposit information to receive payments.

That doesn't sound like a bad thing . . . when I occasionally sell something usually go to PayPal and transfer proceeds to a bank account anyway. Must be more than that. (Maybe tax reporting ramifications?)

[bobbyw8469]

What is this in a nutshell?

Ebay has been divorced from PayPal since 2015. I'm guessing it is their attempt to finally push them out of the picture and become a "one stop shop" and start collecting some of the payment processing fee money. If sellers don't sign up for the program, they will cease to be allowed to sell on Ebay.

[bnorth]

I rarely sell but yes the sellers are going to stay on eBay. There are no other option(s) that i know of with the eyes eBay gets. This is the same whining everyone done when we had to use PayPal.

[Jim65]

From what I understand, eBay is effectively moving off of PayPal as it's main payment processor and beginning to process payments themselves. This requires users to now provide direct deposit information to receive payments.

I receive some things direct deposited to my Paypal account, I wonder if I can use that direct deposit info. I really hate giving my bank account info to anybody.

[Leon]

That doesn't sound like a bad thing . . . when I occasionally sell something usually go to PayPal and transfer proceeds to a bank account anyway. Must be more than that. (Maybe tax reporting ramifications?)

The answer is always money. As was said, Ebay is going to take the payment fees instead of letting paypal collect them. It makes business sense as long as they don't lose too many customers. I don't sell on ebay much at all (if ever anymore) so it doesn't affect me unless a lot of sellers leave.

For the record, I voted yes in the poll as I doubt I would/will quit with this new change.

[bobbyw8469]

Another major change is, with the new change, there will now be a "hold" on your money. No more getting it instantaneously. The hold is around 3-6 days I am hearing.

[buymycards]

I haven't been switched yet, but I have talked to at least a dozen sellers who have switched to managed payments, and all of them seem to like it. The downside is that most of the payments come through credit cards, and the payments are then paid to your bank account, so you don't have money building up in PayPal like you normally would. Also, if I understand correctly, your selling fees are taken out from each payment, so you don't have a big payment to eBay at the end of the month.

People can still pay you with PayPal, but the default will be a credit card, and you have to click an additional link if you want to pay by PayPal. It is different, but it seems to work fine.

As to the poll, why would I quit selling? I get a nationwide audience, the fees are much cheaper than the fees for setting up at a show, and, even though eBay has a million small glitches that can be trying, it is a good system. My sales have never been so good, and 99% of the customers are easy to deal with. Plus, I get huge postage discounts by printing the eBay/PayPal shipping labels.

[bnorth]

Another major change is, with the new change, there will now be a "hold" on your money. No more getting it instantaneously. The hold is around 3-6 days I am hearing.

It won't matter. People will say they will get out of the hobby or quit selling but then list their items on eBay and be damn glad they can.:D

[buymycards]

That doesn't sound like a bad thing . . . when I occasionally sell something usually go to PayPal and transfer proceeds to a bank account anyway. Must be more than that. (Maybe tax reporting ramifications?)

The 1099 requirements will be the same as the current PayPal requirements. 200 transactions/ $20,000 in sales.

[bobbyw8469]

I haven't been switched yet, but I have talked to at least a dozen sellers who have switched to managed payments, and all of them seem to like it. The downside is that most of the payments come through credit cards, and the payments are then paid to your bank account, so you don't have money building up in PayPal like you normally would. Also, if I understand correctly, your selling fees are taken out from each payment, so you don't have a big payment to eBay at the end of the month.

People can still pay you with PayPal, but the default will be a credit card, and you have to click an additional link if you want to pay by PayPal. It is different, but it seems to work fine.

As to the poll, why would I quit selling? I get a nationwide audience, the fees are much cheaper than the fees for setting up at a show, and, even though eBay has a million small glitches that can be trying, it is a good system. My sales have never been so good, and 99% of the customers are easy to deal with. Plus, I get huge postage discounts by printing the eBay/PayPal shipping labels.

Rick, are you setting up a separate account specifically to deal with this, or will you give Ebay access to your main checking account?

[buymycards]

Rick, are you setting up a separate account specifically to deal with this, or will you give Ebay access to your main checking account?

I am going to set up a separate checking account.

[ibuysportsephemera]

Stay with eBay (of course). Where else can I get the type of exposure I get for primarily sports memorabilia (not cards)? I am not a huge eBay fan but until someone rises to the challenge they are the only game in town.

Jeff

[prestigecollectibles]

I signed up for Managed Payments in September of 2018 and realized I made a horrible mistake and was able to opt out the same day. At that time I was not able to accept PayPal which caused a buyer to cancel. Then one payment was made with AMEX and it took a week for me to get that payment. eBay said they needed to receive the payment from AMEX before they would pay me.

I think many people sell on eBay and keep those funds in their PayPal account to use for future purchases. With sales going directly into bank accounts I wonder if buyers will be less likely to spend money than if it was just sitting in their PayPal account.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see how this all works out.

[D. Bergin]

I got the notice to migrate by July 15th. I don't like it, but I don't have much of a choice.

Ebay is selling it as a cost savings, but it's quite the opposite.

Raw numbers on the surface bring the %'s, just slightly below the combined Ebay and Paypal fees.

Those numbers ignore that Ebay is now going to start charging a final value fee, on top of the processing fee for state sales tax collected.

A sale to a bidder in Alabama, might cost you a bit more then a sale to a bidder in New Hampshire. Won't cost Ebay any more money though. Higher the sales tax rate, the more money they make off your back.

It also ignores how many sellers pay for their bills. By taking the fees directly out of each sale, it skips the step of sellers paying their bill with a debit or credit card and getting a couple points back on your bill on the backend.

Also, like mentioned above, I'm not sure how it will affect bidding, when some buyers/casual sellers aren't looking at their Paypal stash as much, to spend their disposable income now.

Don't like it, but it doesn't really matter to Ebay I guess. Plenty of evidence everywhere they don't care about regular people, including the disgusting story circulating about the ECommercebytes folks.

Oh well..........

[ibuysportsephemera]

It's their playground and if you want to play it has to be by their rules. I don't like it but that is the way it goes. I signed up both my accounts for managed payments and thought it would start immediately. Instead I received an email that I am on the list, whatever that means. At least now managed payments will take all forms of payment. When it first started it was only eBay payments which is why I didn't opt in.

Jeff

[buymycards]

It's their playground and if you want to play it has to be by their rules. I don't like it but that is the way it goes. I signed up both my accounts for managed payments and thought it would start immediately. Instead I received an email that I am on the list, whatever that means. At least now managed payments will take all forms of payment. When it first started it was only eBay payments which is why I didn't opt in.

Jeff

I received an email in the spring of 2019, so I tried to sign up. I received a message that told me that an agent will be calling me, but that never happened. I also received a message a couple of months ago asking me to sign up, but when I tried, I received a message that I was not yet on the list. I can't believe that all of this will happen next month.

Also, when managed payments first surfaced, PayPal was not going to be accepted, but not managed payments will include PayPal.

[sox1903wschamp]

It also ignores how many sellers pay for their bills. By taking the fees directly out of each sale, it skips the step of sellers paying their bill with a debit or credit card and getting a couple points back on your bill on the backend.



Not trying to defend Ebay but this statement is not how it works under Managed payments. They (Ebay) still accumulate all fees and you pay monthly and you can use a credit card if so desired.

[D. Bergin]

Not trying to defend Ebay but this statement is not how it works under Managed payments. They (Ebay) still accumulate all fees and you pay monthly and you can use a credit card if so desired.

Ok, I stand corrected then. Do they just take out the processing fees then, when they sweep into your account, like Paypal, and then bill you for the final value fees later?

[AddieJoss]

It’s less in fees for all sellers. There is no scenario where the fees will go up unless you have a special deal with PayPal. And buyers have more options to buy.
Currently PayPal charges fees on sales tax too.
This is not a bad change. The fees aren’t higher. Besides it’s different/new I can’t see the downside.
Cory Weiser

[ibuysportsephemera]

It’s less in fees for all sellers. There is no scenario where the fees will go up unless you have a special deal with PayPal. And buyers have more options to buy.
Currently PayPal charges fees on sales tax too.
This is not a bad change. The fees aren’t higher. Besides it’s different/new I can’t see the downside.
Cory Weiser


Cory,

I have read that eBay will be taking a fee per item sold as opposed to paypal that just takes one fee for the entire transaction. For me that would result in a much higher charge since I always promote and try to sell similar items at one time (and offer combined shipping). This type of marketing has been very successful for me so I hope that this is not true.

Jeff

[sox1903wschamp]

Ok, I stand corrected then. Do they just take out the processing fees then, when they sweep into your account, like Paypal, and then bill you for the final value fees later?

No, the processing fees are accumulated and paid monthly just like the FVF for managed payments.

That processing fee for some Managed Payment members is currently 2.7% with no "hard transaction fee" compared to PP at 2.9% and a .30 transaction fee which helps on lower end sales. However, that is changing in July as Ebay is adding the transaction fee to all.

[G1911]

I've never sold a card (trade or give away dupes), but I expect much grousing and little boycotting. There's no other medium to replace it. High end items can go to an Auction House, but the low-middle end stuff that is the bulk of pre-war and vintage cards sold aren't desired there, and the little auction places get nowhere near the eyes that eBay does on an item. The change is not so egregious as to make it easier/more profitable to list items anywhere else.

[bcbgcbrcb]

As a retired 30+ year finance guy, I can tell you that the real profits going to e-bay with this new set-up will be the float time on the money that they collect instantly from the buyer and hold for 3-5 days until they deem the funds ready to deposit into the seller's bank account. Take those numbers times the tens/hundreds of millions of buyers and sellers and that's where e-bay is making the real money. The .001 or whatever fees you are saving as a seller is vastly negligible when compared to those profits that they will be enjoying.

Like many others, I'm not in favor of the new set-up at all but have to live with it. Etsy isn't really a reasonable alternative, is it? lol

[NATCARD]

I have been in managed payments for months. 1) Simply put eBay is taking a $.35 fee per transaction with it. They have been losing out on this by accepting PayPal. The way I figure it is they miss PayPal and are starting a "NEW" version of it. 2) You do not wait that long for your deposits to your bank account. Most are sent from Ebay with 1 day (sometimes hours) of items being sold and paid and then there is a few day delay for the deposit to show up in your bank account. You will receive deposits on a daily basis and sometimes (I have had 3) in a single day. You can opt into a once a week deposit if you like. 3) The fact that PayPal is not used anymore is a downside. I use PayPal to pay for a lot of business related things such as Stamps.com shipping and now when my PayPal gets low I find myself depositing money into PayPal from my bank account. 4) My fees are NOT deducted from my payments and my credit card is still charged my full eBay seller fees and related fees every month. I hope this helps, Jeff W

[D. Bergin]

It’s less in fees for all sellers. There is no scenario where the fees will go up unless you have a special deal with PayPal. And buyers have more options to buy.
Currently PayPal charges fees on sales tax too.
This is not a bad change. The fees aren’t higher. Besides it’s different/new I can’t see the downside.
Cory Weiser


Paypal took 2.9% of the Sales Tax collected. Ebay will now be taking 11.5% of the Sales Tax collected if you have a store.

12.35% if you don't have a store.

[x2drich2000]

Sigh, all I have to add is I miss grandslambids (edit: FYI, ummm, don't try to go to the site anymore, especially at work :eek: )

[ibuysportsephemera]

So of course I just received an email from eBay concerning managed payments. It starts "Welcome to Managed Payments".....like I had a choice :D.

Jeff

[bobbyw8469]

So of course I just received an email from eBay concerning managed payments. It starts "Welcome to Managed Payments".....like I had a choice :D.

Jeff

LOL...You have a choice alright...don't sign up. That is the choice I am grappling with now.

[buymycards]

I have been in managed payments for months. 1) Simply put eBay is taking a $.35 fee per transaction with it. They have been losing out on this by accepting PayPal. The way I figure it is they miss PayPal and are starting a "NEW" version of it. 2) You do not wait that long for your deposits to your bank account. Most are sent from Ebay with 1 day (sometimes hours) of items being sold and paid and then there is a few day delay for the deposit to show up in your bank account. You will receive deposits on a daily basis and sometimes (I have had 3) in a single day. You can opt into a once a week deposit if you like. 3) The fact that PayPal is not used anymore is a downside. I use PayPal to pay for a lot of business related things such as Stamps.com shipping and now when my PayPal gets low I find myself depositing money into PayPal from my bank account. 4) My fees are NOT deducted from my payments and my credit card is still charged my full eBay seller fees and related fees every month. I hope this helps, Jeff W

This is from the email that was received today:

Simplified fees:
○ Once activated for managed payments starting late July, you will pay a final value fee, consisting of a category-based percentage of the total amount of the sale, plus a $0.30 fixed fee per order.1
○ Your final value fee will be automatically deducted from your sales proceeds. You can cover the costs of refunds from your bank account or credit card when your pending payout is not sufficient to cover the refund amount.

I never gave any thought to refunds. PayPal won't be involved, in most cases. So, hopefully, your bank account will have enough of a balance to cover any refunds. If not, it will come from your credit card. I give a lot of refunds from PayPal because of buyers buying multiple items and not waiting for me to send them a combined shipping invoice.

[D. Bergin]

This is from the email that was received today:

Simplified fees:
○ Once activated for managed payments starting late July, you will pay a final value fee, consisting of a category-based percentage of the total amount of the sale, plus a $0.30 fixed fee per order.1
○ Your final value fee will be automatically deducted from your sales proceeds.


Ok, so I was right. LOL!

The new and improved Ebay.

"To simplify the act of skimming more money from you"

LOL!

[jbsports33]

Still need to set this up, sounds like a good July 4th Holiday task to read more about it! Paying for items should not change - and Paypal should still be an option

Jimmy

[egbeachley]

As a retired 30+ year finance guy, I can tell you that the real profits going to e-bay with this new set-up will be the float time on the money that they collect instantly from the buyer and hold for 3-5 days until they deem the funds ready to deposit into the seller's bank account. Take those numbers times the tens/hundreds of millions of buyers and sellers and that's where e-bay is making the real money. The .001 or whatever fees you are saving as a seller is vastly negligible when compared to those profits that they will be enjoying.

This won’t accumulate enough to be a rounding error. Based on the sales price it adds only about 0.01% more to earnings after already making 10.00% in Final Value Fees. That’s 1/100th of a percent more. Calculated as 1% overnight interest rate times 3-4 days divided by 365 days in a year. Doesn’t even consider the loss of a day until they receive payment and loss of another day when they process the ACH the day before the seller receives payment.

Float Income basically doesn’t exist anymore.

[thecatspajamas]

I think many people sell on eBay and keep those funds in their PayPal account to use for future purchases. With sales going directly into bank accounts I wonder if buyers will be less likely to spend money than if it was just sitting in their PayPal account.

This is the part I can't believe eBay still hasn't figured out. Not only do they benefit from buyers' money burning a hole in their pocket to spend back on ebay, generating additional sales in the process, but if funds used for the second purchase were in the buyer's account already, no additional processing fees are being charged by a credit card issuer for the second purchase. But in Paypal's case, unless f&f is used, they're still going to charge that second seller the same processing fee. There is an awful lot of money that just bounces from one Paypal account to another, racking up fees for Paypal along the way, that never actually gets run through a credit card. By not having a way for users to spend directly from their MP account (except on postage, starting in July), eBay is missing out on additional sales, processing fees for the account-balance-shuffle, and interest on all the funds allowed to build up in users' accounts as they save for larger purchases.

[Snapolit1]

So as I understand this thread, they are cutting out paypal as the middleman and taking their fees directly right away, but delaying your money a few days to steal the float.

Ok, the world is not ending, but I guess if I sold for a living I might view his differently.

Only thing that bums me out a little is that I am a paypal shareholder. . . .

[AddieJoss]

Cory,

I have read that eBay will be taking a fee per item sold as opposed to paypal that just takes one fee for the entire transaction. For me that would result in a much higher charge since I always promote and try to sell similar items at one time (and offer combined shipping). This type of marketing has been very successful for me so I hope that this is not true.

Jeff

Jeff,
PayPal takes 2.9% plus $0.30 per transaction currently. And Ebay charges 10% (for cards). So the total fee without a store is currently 12.9% plus $0.30 per item. This is the current cost. (Currently PayPal also charges us the 2.9% on the sales tax)

The new fee structure will be 12.35% plus $0.30 per transaction. This is a reduction of .55% for the seller. There is NO scenario where the seller pays more unless they have a special deal with PayPal currently.

If one has an EBay store the the costs are all .85% lower than this plus the Ebay store cost.

Also, the maximum final value fee for EBay store owners is also dropping as well. This will drop to 11.5% upto $2500, which is really 9.15% (plus the 2.35%) upto $2500 ($229 vs. currently $350). Then there is still 2.25% over $2500 instead of the 2.9% PayPal currently charges.

So every scenario shows lower seller fees. If anyone has a factual example of where the new eBay fees are higher than the current ones, I’d love to see it.
Thx,
Cory Weiser

[Michael B]

I received an email from NSCC. I am copying and dropping here.

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[thecatspajamas]

Cory, you are correct for sales to states which do not have a remote sales tax, or which have low sales tax. Because eBay will be charging that full 12.35% rate to process the "full sale price" (final bid + shipping + sales tax) vs. the current arrangement where the ebay final value fees are not charged on the sales tax portion, there will be a number of states whose higher sales tax rate drives up that total fee price to slightly larger than it is now. It's been a bit since I worked out the numbers, but I recall the break-even point being somewhere around 5% sales tax resulting in equivalent fees for either scenario.

So some higher, some lower, it's probably a wash in the long run for most online sellers. The sticking point for much of the conversation I've read over the new fee structure is that eBay is essentially charging their full commission on the sales tax versus the current arrangement where the only fees charged on the sales tax are by Paypal for processing the transaction. Because they are no longer breaking out the fees for each sale into separate final value fees and payment processing fees, some are viewing this as a tax on a tax kind of scenario, and take issue with that scenario.

Edited to add: I went back and re-worked the math, and the break-even point if you do not have an eBay store is when selling to a theoretical state that has 5.82% sales tax. If the sales tax rate is higher, you will pay slightly more in fees under Managed Payments than previously with Paypal processing the fees.

Also note that if you have an eBay store that is more than just the basic store, the eBay fee under MP drops to 11.5% instead of 12.35%. In that scenario, the seller would see a savings in all cases where the sales tax rate is less than 16.23% (which I believe would be in all cases). So you are correct in that scenario.

[ibuysportsephemera]

Jeff,
PayPal takes 2.9% plus $0.30 per transaction currently. And Ebay charges 10% (for cards). So the total fee without a store is currently 12.9% plus $0.30 per item. This is the current cost. (Currently PayPal also charges us the 2.9% on the sales tax)

The new fee structure will be 12.35% plus $0.30 per transaction. This is a reduction of .55% for the seller. There is NO scenario where the seller pays more unless they have a special deal with PayPal currently.

If one has an EBay store the the costs are all .85% lower than this plus the Ebay store cost.

Also, the maximum final value fee for EBay store owners is also dropping as well. This will drop to 11.5% upto $2500, which is really 9.15% (plus the 2.35%) upto $2500 ($229 vs. currently $350). Then there is still 2.25% over $2500 instead of the 2.9% PayPal currently charges.

So every scenario shows lower seller fees. If anyone has a factual example of where the new eBay fees are higher than the current ones, I’d love to see it.
Thx,
Cory Weiser


Thanks Cory...I am hopeful that you are correct.


Jeff

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

I've never sold a card (trade or give away dupes), but I expect much grousing and little boycotting. There's no other medium to replace it. High end items can go to an Auction House, but the low-middle end stuff that is the bulk of pre-war and vintage cards sold aren't desired there, and the little auction places get nowhere near the eyes that eBay does on an item. The change is not so egregious as to make it easier/more profitable to list items anywhere else.

You might be surprised at how some of the little auction houses do in comparison to ebay.

[Hot Springs Bathers]

I have read all the posts and am still confused. It appears that small time sellers like me who accumulate funds in my Paypal account to spend on future purchases are out of luck. Am I correct? You will not be allowed to accumulate funds in your managed account?

[thecatspajamas]

I have read all the posts and am still confused. It appears that small time sellers like me who accumulate funds in my Paypal account to spend on future purchases are out of luck. Am I correct? You will not be allowed to accumulate funds in your managed account?

You can accumulate them for up to a week depending on how frequent you set your payout, but cannot spend them directly out of your managed payments account except to purchase eBay shipping labels. For all other purchases, you would have to deposit the funds to your checking account, and then either pay directly from there or transfer the funds to Paypal or some other payment source.

[Jewish-collector]

So, there won't be paypal as a bucket of funds ? So, a buyer will just sends funds from their own bank account directly to the seller's bank account. So eBay will take funds out for the fees directly from the seller's bank account ? Is this correct ?

[AddieJoss]

Cory, you are correct for sales to states which do not have a remote sales tax, or which have low sales tax. Because eBay will be charging that full 12.35% rate to process the "full sale price" (final bid + shipping + sales tax) vs. the current arrangement where the ebay final value fees are not charged on the sales tax portion, there will be a number of states whose higher sales tax rate drives up that total fee price to slightly larger than it is now. It's been a bit since I worked out the numbers, but I recall the break-even point being somewhere around 5% sales tax resulting in equivalent fees for either scenario.

So some higher, some lower, it's probably a wash in the long run for most online sellers. The sticking point for much of the conversation I've read over the new fee structure is that eBay is essentially charging their full commission on the sales tax versus the current arrangement where the only fees charged on the sales tax are by Paypal for processing the transaction. Because they are no longer breaking out the fees for each sale into separate final value fees and payment processing fees, some are viewing this as a tax on a tax kind of scenario, and take issue with that scenario.

Edited to add: I went back and re-worked the math, and the break-even point if you do not have an eBay store is when selling to a theoretical state that has 5.82% sales tax. If the sales tax rate is higher, you will pay slightly more in fees under Managed Payments than previously with Paypal processing the fees.

Also note that if you have an eBay store that is more than just the basic store, the eBay fee under MP drops to 11.5% instead of 12.35%. In that scenario, the seller would see a savings in all cases where the sales tax rate is less than 16.23% (which I believe would be in all cases). So you are correct in that scenario.

Lance, a seller currently pays the PayPal 2.9% fee on the sales tax as well to PayPal now.

[thecatspajamas]

So, there won't be paypal as a bucket of funds ? So, a buyer will just sends funds from their own bank account directly to the seller's bank account. So eBay will take funds out for the fees directly from the seller's bank account ? Is this correct ?

Ebay removes their fees from the funds as it moves through them. So the funds come out of the buyer's bank account (or credit card, or Paypal account, or whatever funding source they use), and those funds minus the eBay fees are what gets deposited to the seller's bank account. The seller does not have opportunity to turn around and make a purchase from that pool of money before it goes back into their bank account though.

[AddieJoss]

So, there won't be paypal as a bucket of funds ? So, a buyer will just sends funds from their own bank account directly to the seller's bank account. So eBay will take funds out for the fees directly from the seller's bank account ? Is this correct ?

Buyers can still use PayPal, or a credit card or many other methods in the future. It opens it up more.

[Hot Springs Bathers]

Lance if I am reading this correctly, eBay will (eventually) send the funds to your bank account and then when purchasing an item you will have the option to use a credit card to pay fr that item?

[thecatspajamas]

Lance, a seller currently pays the PayPal 2.9% fee on the sales tax as well to PayPal now.

Correct. So on a sale that is $100 for the sale price plus shipping, to a state with 5.82% sales tax, the equation with Ebay FVF plus Paypal on the left and eBay Managed Payments on the right would be:

$100(0.10) + [($100 + $100(0.0582)]0.029+0.30 = [$100 + $100(0.0582)].1235+0.30

=$13.37

This assumes that the seller does not have an eBay store, or just has the lowest level of eBay store subscription ("starter" I think it is called). For those with "basic" level eBay store and higher, the FVF is dropped to 11.5% for most categories, making that "break even" sales tax rate 16.27% which is higher than any state's tax rate that I am aware of. So in other words, if you have an eBay store subscription, your fees will actually be lower under Managed Payments regardless of which state you are selling into.

[thecatspajamas]

Lance if I am reading this correctly, eBay will (eventually) send the funds to your bank account and then when purchasing an item you will have the option to use a credit card to pay fr that item?

You can pay for purchases by every method currently available to buyers, including paying via Paypal, plus a couple that aren't currently available with Paypal. You just can't pay for purchases from your Managed Payments account itself.

[Hot Springs Bathers]

Thanks!

[68Hawk]

You can pay for purchases by every method currently available to buyers, including paying via Paypal, plus a couple that aren't currently available with Paypal. You just can't pay for purchases from your Managed Payments account itself.

If you link your paypal account to your managed payments account, you effectively can. No?

[thecatspajamas]

If you link your paypal account to your managed payments account, you effectively can. No?

Unfortunately no. The funds have to go out of Managed Payments to somewhere else before they can be used for purchases, and currently does not allow for direct deposit from Managed Payments into a Paypal account. There has been some chatter about Paypal setting something up where each Paypal account would be provided and account number and routing number so that it appeared to be a checking account such as is required to deposit Managed Payment funds into. Supposedly something is coming in June, before the massive push to Managed Payments comes in July, but I have not seen that option materialize as yet. Even that though, while it would help give some flexibility in using the funds, users would still have the same 2-3 day lag from when the funds leave Managed Payments until they are available to use for further purchases.

Don't get me wrong: nobody is losing their money or having it locked up for an indefinite amount of time. And buyers will actually have more options for payment methods under Managed Payments than they do currently. There just won't be that instant availability of funds that can be re-used for further purchases that sellers currently enjoy with Paypal.

[Hot Springs Bathers]

The big plus has always been not necessarily instant access to my funds after a sale but the ability to accumulate the funds for a larger future purchase.

[thecatspajamas]

The big plus has always been not necessarily instant access to my funds after a sale but the ability to accumulate the funds for a larger future purchase.

You can still do that, you just won't be able to fund the purchase from your MP account. You could do a daily dump into your bank account and accumulate funds there though. Just with some lag in availability of the funds that Paypal users do not experience today.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think this is the end of the world, and I was not one of the ones who checked the "I'm outta here" vote at the top of the page. It just introduces some extra steps and delays in moving funds from eBay sales around that are not there today for Paypal users.

[buymycards]

The big plus has always been not necessarily instant access to my funds after a sale but the ability to accumulate the funds for a larger future purchase.

For the 16 people who voted "No, I will be done with eBay", I would like to check back in a couple of months and see if you really are done. Are you really going to quit selling over this or are you just being obstinate? :) I know that I enjoy being cranky and grouchy sometimes, and it can be fun.

[bobbyw8469]

For the 16 people who voted "No, I will be done with eBay", I would like to check back in a couple of months and see if you really are done. Are you really going to quit selling over this or are you just being obstinate? :) I know that I enjoy being cranky and grouchy sometimes, and it can be fun.

Contrary to popular belief, there ARE other venues to sell your wares. I have sold a few things under the Net54 auction thread, even though it doesn't get the eyeballs Ebay does. Sterling would love to help you out. So would "Love of the Game".

[buymycards]

You might be surprised at how some of the little auction houses do in comparison to ebay.

Scott, I have to agree with you. I was bidding on 12 auctions in your June 15th auction and watching another dozen or so. I only won 4 items, and I was very surprised at the high prices that many of your items received. I know that if I were selling these items myself on eBay I wouldn't have come close to the prices that you received.

Rick

[bobbyw8469]

I'm sure Scott would love to help out as well. But I believe he only deals in non sports

[Jim65]

Unfortunately no. The funds have to go out of Managed Payments to somewhere else before they can be used for purchases, and currently does not allow for direct deposit from Managed Payments into a Paypal account. There has been some chatter about Paypal setting something up where each Paypal account would be provided and account number and routing number so that it appeared to be a checking account such as is required to deposit Managed Payment funds into. Supposedly something is coming in June, before the massive push to Managed Payments comes in July, but I have not seen that option materialize as yet. Even that though, while it would help give some flexibility in using the funds, users would still have the same 2-3 day lag from when the funds leave Managed Payments until they are available to use for further purchases.

Don't get me wrong: nobody is losing their money or having it locked up for an indefinite amount of time. And buyers will actually have more options for payment methods under Managed Payments than they do currently. There just won't be that instant availability of funds that can be re-used for further purchases that sellers currently enjoy with Paypal.


Paypal already has direct deposit, I have an account and routing number. I had my Stimulus direct deposited into my Paypal. I heard DD is only available if you have the Paypal Cash Debit Card but I don't know if thats true.

[ibuysportsephemera]

LOL...You have a choice alright...don't sign up. That is the choice I am grappling with now.

No real choice Bobby if you want to sell on eBay. All sellers eventually will have to be on managed payments.

Jeff

[ibuysportsephemera]

I'm sure Scott would love to help out as well. But I believe he only deals in non sports

Not true...Scott's main auction business is Sports related.

Jeff

[thecatspajamas]

Paypal already has direct deposit, I have an account and routing number. I had my Stimulus direct deposited into my Paypal. I heard DD is only available if you have the Paypal Cash Debit Card but I don't know if thats true.

Well that is encouraging news, and something that I need to look into further. That would certainly help take out some of the lag in being able to re-use the funds. My understanding was that was something that was in the works, but hadn't been enabled yet. Thank you for the tip!

[D. Bergin]

Correct. So on a sale that is $100 for the sale price plus shipping, to a state with 5.82% sales tax, the equation with Ebay FVF plus Paypal on the left and eBay Managed Payments on the right would be:

$100(0.10) + [($100 + $100(0.0582)]0.029+0.30 = [$100 + $100(0.0582)].1235+0.30

=$13.37

This assumes that the seller does not have an eBay store, or just has the lowest level of eBay store subscription ("starter" I think it is called). For those with "basic" level eBay store and higher, the FVF is dropped to 11.5% for most categories, making that "break even" sales tax rate 16.27% which is higher than any state's tax rate that I am aware of. So in other words, if you have an eBay store subscription, your fees will actually be lower under Managed Payments regardless of which state you are selling into.



I'm not an accountant but:

Basic store level final value fees right now are 9.15% + the 2.9% Paypal, and I'm seeing the swing in the other direction at maybe just above 6% sales tax.

I know the most populous states and most frequent shipments are to higher tax states.

This also doesn't take into account what has been mentioned already, Ebay is taking their piece before depositing it into our account, so we can't get points back from our cards when we pay the bill. I know this is fairly inconsequential, but it makes the statement "There's no math you can use in which you aren't saving money under this new program", fairly inaccurate.

......and anybody who doesn't think Ebay already crunched the numbers in their favor before unrolling this system, is being incredibly naive.

I know I may be pinching pennies, and in the end, it may only be a few bucks more a month, but I'm constantly being disappointed by Ebay and their decisions. I can't help thinking this is just a first step down a much bigger rabbit hole.

They are constantly inching up their bottom line, while their scumbag, terroristic former CEO just took a $57 million golden parachute.

All that being said, I reserve the right to complain about Ebay, but I'm certainly not going to stop selling there. Doesn't mean I have to buy the whole "It's their playground, just shut up and sell, or leave if you don't like it" mentality.

They've shown their true colors as a company, as evidenced by the other thread on this site. So I'm going to continue using them, as long as they continue to "use" me. It's just business, I guess.


:D

[bcbgcbrcb]

Don’t think you quite understand float, Eric.

[ibuysportsephemera]

I'm not an accountant but:

All that being said, I reserve the right to complain about Ebay, but I'm certainly not going to stop selling there. Doesn't mean I have to buy the whole "It's their playground, just shut up and sell, or leave if you don't like it" mentality.

They've shown their true colors as a company, as evidenced by the other thread on this site. So I'm going to continue using them, as long as they continue to "use" me. It's just business, I guess.


:D

Dave...I agree with everything that you are saying but I stand by my comment...it is their playground and until there is a legitimate alternative we have to play by their rules...no matter how much you complain about them.

Jeff

[68Hawk]

Unfortunately no. The funds have to go out of Managed Payments to somewhere else before they can be used for purchases, and currently does not allow for direct deposit from Managed Payments into a Paypal account. There has been some chatter about Paypal setting something up where each Paypal account would be provided and account number and routing number so that it appeared to be a checking account such as is required to deposit Managed Payment funds into. Supposedly something is coming in June, before the massive push to Managed Payments comes in July, but I have not seen that option materialize as yet. Even that though, while it would help give some flexibility in using the funds, users would still have the same 2-3 day lag from when the funds leave Managed Payments until they are available to use for further purchases.

Don't get me wrong: nobody is losing their money or having it locked up for an indefinite amount of time. And buyers will actually have more options for payment methods under Managed Payments than they do currently. There just won't be that instant availability of funds that can be re-used for further purchases that sellers currently enjoy with Paypal.

Nicely explained, thanks!

[teza11]

I spent an hour at BofA yesterday opening up a new bank account for the eBay managed funds program. I don't want to commingle my real-life banking activity with what I do on eBay. So what options could BofA offer this 30 year customer? A bs monthly fee or a required daily balance of at least $1500 to avoid any fees. Ugh!

Lance or others, let us know what you find out about using PayPal like a bank to deposit eBay funds into. Is it active, are there associated fees or minimums, etc?

Jeff

[thecatspajamas]

I spent an hour at BofA yesterday opening up a new bank account for the eBay managed funds program. I don't want to commingle my real-life banking activity with what I do on eBay. So what options could BofA offer this 30 year customer? A bs monthly fee or a required daily balance of at least $1500 to avoid any fees. Ugh!

Lance or others, let us know what you find out about using PayPal like a bank to deposit eBay funds into. Is it active, are there associated fees or minimums, etc?

Jeff

I heard DD is only available if you have the Paypal Cash Debit Card but I don't know if thats true.

So from what I have been able to find this morning, what James said is correct. If you have a Paypal Cash or Paypal Cash Plus debit card, there is an account and routing number associated with that which should show on your account page in Paypal that lists any credit cards or bank accounts you have associated with your Paypal account.

The down side (for me at least) is that you can only get the Paypal Cash Debit Card if you have a Personal Paypal account. If you have a Paypal Business account, the Paypal Cash Debit Card is not available. There is a Paypal Debit Mastercard you can get, which similarly lets you pay with a card drawn on your stored Paypal funds, but I have not found yet whether/where an account and routing number is provided for that card which would enable direct deposit for Paypal Business users.

It seems counter-intuitive to provide fewer features for the Business account than the Personal one, but my advice if you are setting this up would be to start with the Personal account for Paypal and add the optional debit card (which has no fees for most purposes, unless you're using it for cash withdrawals at an ATM or bank), and setting up Managed Payments to dump to your Paypal account should be relatively easy to accomplish from that point. I'm currently waiting for a response from Paypal Help for how those with Business accounts should proceed (the automated system did point me to the answers for Personal account users, but had no answers for my particular circumstance). Failing that, I guess I'll be looking into what it takes to downgrade to a Personal account, though if I recall correctly, that in turn would cause issues for anyone having Working Capital loans through Paypal.

[teza11]

Thanks Lance. I have a personal PayPal account. It took less than a minute to activate PayPal direct deposit. Apparently I will not be able to change my eBay managed account direct deposit election until they activate me on their program.

Jeff

[egbeachley]

Don’t think you quite understand float, Eric.

You would be surprised at what I know about float income.

Just do the math on a hypothetical $1,000 sale. eBay gets somewhere around $120 in fees. How much additional do they get for the float for a few days? There is no way possible that anyone could calculate float income of even 12 cents on this example which is less than 1/1000th of the final value fees.

Float Income is way overrated.

[hcv123]

Paypal took 2.9% of the Sales Tax collected. Ebay will now be taking 11.5% of the Sales Tax collected if you have a store.

12.35% if you don't have a store.

Sales tax is "collected" for the benefit of the taxing authority, not "charged" like a fee. Where did you see that they were going to do this?

[D. Bergin]

Sales tax is "collected" for the benefit of the taxing authority, not "charged" like a fee. Where did you see that they were going to do this?


Ebay will be "collecting" the sales tax for you, and then charging an 11.5% vig for the privilege of doing that for you.

Paypal charges 2.9% for the processing fee of collecting the Sales Tax right now.

Ebay has figured out a way to wrap the sales tax into the "Total Sale" (Price of item, Price of shipping, Price of Sales Tax), called it "simplifying the process", and charging a flat fee for everything, all inclusive.

It was bad enough when Ebay started charging us a final value fee on the shipping, when Paypal was the one doing the actual payment processing.

This is just an insult, and I doubt there's any other E-Commerce platform that figured out how to make such a windfall on Sales Tax, since the Supreme Court ruled on expanding on-line Sales Tax collection.

[D. Bergin]

Anybody in managed payments know what Ebay's transactional fee is for receiving International Payments. I know Paypal's is 4.4%.

Ebay seems to not want to tell you, until you are actually in the program, so I can't find anything online.

I have quite a few overseas customers, even with the Postal Rates skyrocketing the last few years.

:confused:

[MRSPORTSCARDCOLLECTOR]

From what I understand, eBay is effectively moving off of PayPal as it's main payment processor and beginning to process payments themselves. This requires users to now provide direct deposit information to receive payments.

I kind of like it. I do this thru Amazon for years. To me much simpler than Paypal.

[Exhibitman]

I decided to see what the new eBay fees would really cost me using an actual sale I had and the details eBay released on the new fee structure. Here is information I pulled directly from eBay’s communique on the new structure:

“We charge one final value fee when your item sells, and you don't have to worry about third-party payment processing fees. This fee is calculated as a percentage of the total amount of the sale, plus $0.30 per order. The total amount of the sale is the entire amount the buyer pays, including any handling charges, the shipping service the buyer selects, sales tax, and any other applicable fees.”

Final Value Fees

11.5% on total amount of the sale up to $2,500

2.35% on the portion of the sale over $2,500



Buy It Now Fee

$0.99-$9.99 $0.05

$10-$24.99 $0.10

$25-$49.99 $0.20

$50 or more $0.25



Background: I have the least expensive store ($4.95 a month). Provides me with 100 free listings a month. That will continue, so my base listing fee is a wash. I am a top rated seller so I do not absorb the penalty % that sellers not rated “above standard” or better get hit with, but I refuse to allow 1 day turnaround and 30 day returns so I do not get the top seller discount (10% of the FVF, aka 1% of the total) so that is a wash also.



Example: I listed a card for auction with a $300 BIN that sold for the BIN. Buyer paid $5 shipping and sales tax on the whole amount ($25.16) for a buyer out of pocket total cost ("OOP") of $330.16.

The costs to me with the old fee structure and PayPal:

Listing fee $0.00

BIN fee $0.00

Final Value Fee on card $30.00

Final Value Fee on shipping $0.50

Final Value Fee on sales tax: $0.00

PayPal Fee $9.87

Total Fees $40.37

My Net: $259.63


I took the above figures directly from my eBay invoice and my PayPal invoice, so there are no calculation errors. They are actual hard costs I paid.


Now the same sale under the new fee structure with integrated payments:



Listing fee $0.00

BIN fee $0.25

Combined Final Value Fee $38.27 (11.5% of the OOP $330.16 plus $0.30)

Total fees $38.52

My Net: $261.49



The hard numbers prove that by making this switch to integrated payments eBay lowered my costs. As far as I am concerned, that ends the debate over whether the switch is good or bad, though I have to believe that once eBay finishes off PayPal it will jack up the fees and f*** it all up somehow.

[thecatspajamas]

Adam, double-check the info on eBay's page regarding the new fees for Stores sellers. The reduced 11.5% fee rate only applies to Basic stores and above (i.e. Basic, Premium, Anchor, and Enterprise). Starter stores (the lowest tier which costs $4.95/month with a subscription) are charged the same 12.35% fee rate as those without a store subscription.

With a store, Basic level and up:
https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/selling-fees/store-fees?id=4809

With a Starter store or without a store:
https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/selling-fees/store-fees?id=4822

[thecatspajamas]

Anybody in managed payments know what Ebay's transactional fee is for receiving International Payments. I know Paypal's is 4.4%.

Ebay seems to not want to tell you, until you are actually in the program, so I can't find anything online.

I have quite a few overseas customers, even with the Postal Rates skyrocketing the last few years.

:confused:

Dave, the links I posted above with the fee structures taking effect in July indicate there is an international fee of 1.65% assessed (on top of the 11.5% or 12.35% fee) if the buyer's registered address is outside of the U.S. It does not appear to matter if the delivery address is domestic (i.e. if they are using a re-shipper or having delivered to a friend), as it is based on their registered address, not the delivery address. That would make this portion of the fee slightly higher than Paypal's 1.5% international fee tacked onto the base rate, though if you're seeing a slight benefit under Managed Payments otherwise, the slight 0.15% increase may be offset.

Related to this, there is a "currency conversion charge" which, upon re-reading that portion, would appear to apply only "when you list on an eBay site with a listing currency different to your payout currency." I had previously thought this applied when the buyer funded their purchase with a different currency than you used, but in re-reading it, this would appear to only apply where, for instance, me being based in the United States, if I were to list on the eBay UK site and make a sale, eBay Managed Payments would charge me a fee to convert those British Pounds to U.S. Dollars for my payout. The currency conversion charge would not appear to apply if a buyer in the UK logged onto the U.S. eBay.com site and made a purchase. I would keep an eye on this once the new fees go into effect though, as it would not surprise me if eBay showed U.S. sellers' listings to users logged into international eBay sites (without them actively seeking to list on those sites), and wound up charging the currency conversion percentage to the U.S. seller on the back-end. If they do charge it, the "currency conversion charge" is stated as being "3% applied on a base exchange rate. The base exchange rate is based on rates within the wholesale currency markets on the conversion day or the prior business day."

[D. Bergin]

Adam, double-check the info on eBay's page regarding the new fees for Stores sellers. The reduced 11.5% fee rate only applies to Basic stores and above (i.e. Basic, Premium, Anchor, and Enterprise). Starter stores (the lowest tier which costs $4.95/month with a subscription) are charged the same 12.35% fee rate as those without a store subscription.

With a store, Basic level and up:
https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/selling-fees/store-fees?id=4809

With a Starter store or without a store:
https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/selling-fees/store-fees?id=4822

Yup, it's a slight uptick.

Same with basic store owners. Right now I'm paying a 9.15% in final value fees (not 10%). Running those same numbers this transaction will cost me a little bit more then it used to.

Ebay has run their numbers. It's like a casino. In the end, it's always in their favor. Except Ebay doesn't stay settled on the same percentage skim, and then just work to increase their volume.

The percentages are always going up, from year to year to year, in some way shape or form.

That's not inflation.....that's just taking a bigger piece of the pie.

[D. Bergin]

Dave, the links I posted above with the fee structures taking effect in July indicate there is an international fee of 1.65% assessed (on top of the 11.5% or 12.35% fee) if the buyer's registered address is outside of the U.S. It does not appear to matter if the delivery address is domestic (i.e. if they are using a re-shipper or having delivered to a friend), as it is based on their registered address, not the delivery address. That would make this portion of the fee slightly higher than Paypal's 1.5% international fee tacked onto the base rate, though if you're seeing a slight benefit under Managed Payments otherwise, the slight 0.15% increase may be offset.

Related to this, there is a "currency conversion charge" which, upon re-reading that portion, would appear to apply only "when you list on an eBay site with a listing currency different to your payout currency." I had previously thought this applied when the buyer funded their purchase with a different currency than you used, but in re-reading it, this would appear to only apply where, for instance, me being based in the United States, if I were to list on the eBay UK site and make a sale, eBay Managed Payments would charge me a fee to convert those British Pounds to U.S. Dollars for my payout. The currency conversion charge would not appear to apply if a buyer in the UK logged onto the U.S. eBay.com site and made a purchase. I would keep an eye on this once the new fees go into effect though, as it would not surprise me if eBay showed U.S. sellers' listings to users logged into international eBay sites (without them actively seeking to list on those sites), and wound up charging the currency conversion percentage to the U.S. seller on the back-end. If they do charge it, the "currency conversion charge" is stated as being "3% applied on a base exchange rate. The base exchange rate is based on rates within the wholesale currency markets on the conversion day or the prior business day."


Thanks Lance.

[AddieJoss]

Yup, it's a slight uptick.

Same with basic store owners. Right now I'm paying a 9.15% in final value fees (not 10%). Running those same numbers this transaction will cost me a little bit more then it used to.

Ebay has run their numbers. It's like a casino. In the end, it's always in their favor. Except Ebay doesn't stay settled on the same percentage skim, and then just work to increase their volume.

The percentages are always going up, from year to year to year, in some way shape or form.

That's not inflation.....that's just taking a bigger piece of the pie.

Can you post how a current store pays more in the new system? I’ve looked at this many ways to determine and it looks like a lower cost at every level.

[D. Bergin]

Can you post how a current store pays more in the new system? I’ve looked at this many ways to determine and it looks like a lower cost at every level.


Running Adam's example in post #78, his $300 BIN at 9.15% I came up with $37.78 in total fees including Ebay and Paypal

His managed payments calculation came up with $38.52 in total fees, with the 11.5% vig. That's not taking into account, Adam's actually going to fall into the 12.35% category as Lance mentioned above, but not relevant to this example.

Granted it's not a huge difference, but it is what it is, and it will add up.

That also doesn't take into account, about 56 cents in savings on the Ebay bill portion of that transaction, by paying with a secondary source at the end of the month, instead of Ebay taking their cut directly out of the initial transaction, as they have indicated they are going to begin to start doing.

Again, not a huge deal in the grand scheme of things, but Ebay has never made me feel real good about anything they've done in the last 15 years, so why start now.

:D

[bobbyw8469]

Running Adam's example in post #78, his $300 BIN at 9.15% I came up with $37.78 in total fees including Ebay and Paypal

His managed payments calculation came up with $38.52 in total fees, with the 11.5% vig. That's not taking into account, Adam's actually going to fall into the 12.35% category as Lance mentioned above, but not relevant to this example.

Granted it's not a huge difference, but it is what it is, and it will add up.

That also doesn't take into account, about 56 cents in savings on the Ebay bill portion of that transaction, by paying with a secondary source at the end of the month, instead of Ebay taking their cut directly out of the initial transaction, as they have indicated they are going to begin to start doing.

Again, not a huge deal in the grand scheme of things, but Ebay has never made me feel real good about anything they've done in the last 15 years, so why start now.

:D

It's almost like switching your cell phone plan. Or your cable plan. They NEVER have your best interests at heart. It is ALWAYS what can net them the most cash.

[Exhibitman]

Shit, you're right, guys. The extra 0.85% adds $2.81 to a $330 sale. eBay's great magnificence ends up costing me more than current costs.

Fuckin' eBay...they have us over a barrel and they know it.

[bobbyw8469]

Poll ends soon.

[thecatspajamas]

It seems counter-intuitive to provide fewer features for the Business account than the Personal one, but my advice if you are setting this up would be to start with the Personal account for Paypal and add the optional debit card (which has no fees for most purposes, unless you're using it for cash withdrawals at an ATM or bank), and setting up Managed Payments to dump to your Paypal account should be relatively easy to accomplish from that point. I'm currently waiting for a response from Paypal Help for how those with Business accounts should proceed (the automated system did point me to the answers for Personal account users, but had no answers for my particular circumstance). Failing that, I guess I'll be looking into what it takes to downgrade to a Personal account, though if I recall correctly, that in turn would cause issues for anyone having Working Capital loans through Paypal.

To follow up on my previous post, I was advised this morning in a message exchange with Paypal personnel that they are "working on getting a direct deposit set up for the business accounts as well but is something still only on the personal account. I know this is not ideal but we are working on making it more convenient."

So it seems that is in the works to facilitate direct deposit to Paypal Business accounts such as the one that I have. They also followed up with another option that I may have to look into if this is not available for business accounts by the time Managed Payments is mandated for me:

"I understand that you are needing a bank account and routing number for payments to go to. We are actively working to get that feature rolled out soon. You can contact the PayPal PrePaid department and order one of their cards. They have direct deposit accounts and can be linked to the PayPal Account as well."

You can visit www.paypal.com/prepaid

So apparently you can also get a Paypal prepaid debit card, which I understand likewise has an account number and routing number associated with it, and dump your Managed Payments funds to that rather than a bank account. I haven't gone this route yet, so I don't know how fluid it is to transfer that to your primary Paypal account, but maybe that doesn't matter for most users? Anyway, just letting folks know of another option that exists before the big MP shove in a few weeks.