Question about 1962 Salada Coins

[droid714]

As most Salada collectors have probably noticed, the first 180 coins are made up of 10 coins for each of the 18 existing teams. After the NL expanded by two teams in 1962, Salada issued an additional 20 coins, again 10 for each of the new expansion teams.

The original 180 coins contains some pose variations and color variations, such as red or white buttons or light or dark blue piping. Also, some of the players pictured in the original 180 retired, changed teams or positions.

When Salada printed the new coins for the two expansion teams, they also took the opportunity to correct the colors and the team and position changes. In the price guides, these variations are designated "A" or "B" and in a couple of instances even "C". The also added an additional 21 coins not included in the original issue.

What you may not have noticed is that the 10 coins that comprise each team consist of one player for each of the eight position players and two pitchers. After the later printing that included the corrections and the new cards, each team still ended up with one coin for each of the eight position players and two pitchers.

My question is do the "A" and "B" designations actually represent the order they were printed in, or were they just assigned at random?

For example, 37A Dick Brown Dark Blue Piping vs. 37B Dick Brown Light Blue Piping. Was the dark blue piping actually printed first before the light blue piping?

More to come.

[droid714]

The reason I ask this is because I collect Cleveland Indian cards and I have all thirteen of the Indian coins issued by Salada. I also have two of the green plastic shields that were available to mount your coins in. My thought was what coins would I need to acquire to properly fill my shields based on the initial production run and the follow-up production run.

For the Indians, it was rather easy. However, when I plotted the other 19 teams, some were a bit more complex to work out and depended on whether a particular coin was an "A" or a "B".

Shield #1 uses the original 10 Indian coins:

Shield #1

94 John Romano (C)
44 Vic Power (1B)
52A Johnny Temple (2B)
5 Woody Held (SS)
74 Bubba Phillips (3B)
15 Tito Francona (LF)
88A Jimmy Piersall (CF)
61 Willie Kirkland (RF)
26 Jim Grant (SP)
32 Jim Perry (RP)

After the later printing, the Indians were given 3 additional coins. 7B Ken Aspromonte 2B who the Indians acquired from the Angels early in 1962. 52A Johnny Temple 2B left the Indians after the 1961 season and never played for the Indians in 1962. 208 Walt Bond OF was a little used outfielder. 88A Jim Piersall OF left Cleveland after the 1961 season. And 213 Gary Bell P. So here's how Shield #2 would look:

Shield #2

94 John Romano (C)
44 Vic Power (1B)
7B Ken Aspromonte (2B)
5 Woody Held (SS)
74 Bubba Phillips (3B)
15 Tito Francona (LF)
208 Walt Bond (CF)
61 Willie Kirkland (RF)
26 Jim Grant (SP)
213 Gary Bell (RP)

This can be done for all of the teams, using all of the coins issued but only if some of the "A"s and "B"s are swapped.

[droid714]

In general terms, any coin with an "A" designation would have to go in a "Shield #1" and any coin with a "B" designation would have to go in a "Shield #2". Also, any coin numbered 201-221 would have to go in a "Shield #2".

Coins with only color or pose variations don't really matter where they go. But it becomes significant with coins that have team or position changes.

I know that this sounds a bit confusing so let me know if I can clarify.

[nolemmings]

Sorry I can't help, but that Salada information.

[whiteymet]

As most Salada collectors have probably noticed, the first 180 coins are made up of 10 coins for each of the 18 existing teams. After the NL expanded by two teams in 1962, Salada issued an additional 20 coins, again 10 for each of the new expansion teams.

The original 180 coins contains some pose variations and color variations, such as red or white buttons or light or dark blue piping. Also, some of the players pictured in the original 180 retired, changed teams or positions.

When Salada printed the new coins for the two expansion teams, they also took the opportunity to correct the colors and the team and position changes. In the price guides, these variations are designated "A" or "B" and in a couple of instances even "C". The also added an additional 21 coins not included in the original issue.

What you may not have noticed is that the 10 coins that comprise each team consist of one player for each of the eight position players and two pitchers. After the later printing that included the corrections and the new cards, each team still ended up with one coin for each of the eight position players and two pitchers.

My question is do the "A" and "B" designations actually represent the order they were printed in, or were they just assigned at random?

For example, 37A Dick Brown Dark Blue Piping vs. 37B Dic Brown Light Blue Piping. Was the dark blue piping actually printed first before the light blue piping?

More to come.

Hi John:

I will be able to answer your questions in much more detail later. I am taking care of a sick wife currently (nothing life threatening) and can't take the time to dig out all my Salada things.

I have two different 180 coin uncut sheets. One with the 21 coins that were dropped and the other with the "new" 21 coins

What people do not realize is that there were at least three different printings and if you count the printing for the "new" teams the Mets and Colts that were printed on their own sheets I guess you could say four printings.

If you read the description in the SCD Guide it says something at the end about a select few coins that are to rare to put values on. A couple of them did get into the checklist thanks to Bob Lemke when I alerted them to him years ago.

These are coins from an early test printing. The four "name" rare coins Brandt Orioles, Williams name on the right, Bailey "c" level with ear, and Killebrew name horizontal are all part of this early test printing. However there are other coins with difference that only a select few of advanced Salada coin collectors know about

Now, to answer your question, Whoever first designated A's and B's did not get them all correct. The team changes, should be easy to know which came first just by knowing which team he was on first.

But the same can not be said about the rare Bailey "C" level with ear. This was given a 'C" designation because this variation was not discovered until about 30 years later when I reported it to Lemke. Because A and B were taken he made it a C while in actuality he was in the early test printing thus he should have been a A.

They got it right with #48 Williams but not with #53 Brandt. All the Angels red buttons should be A's as I believe they are as they all show up in the 180 sheet with the 21 dropped coins. BTW, none of the rare coins show up on the first 180 sheet I have with the 21 dropped coins which proves the early test printing

I have inter office memo's about some of the changes. For example when Ashburn was dropped he was replaced by Bob Will. These changes did not all happen at once as the dates on the memos show.

Enough for now ( probably more than you wanted to know!!) I'll try to post photos of the two uncut sheets and if really interested you should be able to see on the sheets for example which Dick Brown was on the first sheet and which version was on the second.

But the designations of A&B are certainly not all correct.

[droid714]

Hi Fred,

First off, I hope your wife is feeling better soon. Good to know it's nothing serious.

Second, thank you so much for the information! It's exactly what I was hoping to find out! And if you can find the time to post the uncut sheets, that would be a dream come true!

That's one of the problems with the Corona virus, too much time on my hands!

I had always been curious to see if the eight position player two pitcher rule would hold for all teams and all coin variations, and it does, but only if some of the A-B designations are wrong.

Additionally, Salada made some very strange choices with their replacement coins. I don't have my list in front of me, but I remember one "B" player was listed a "SS" and would replace the "A" shortstop on his team. The only problem is that he hadn't played shortstop since 1956, nor would he play that position in 1962!

In the case of the Indians, which I'm more familiar with, there were a couple of anomalies. First baseman, Vic Power, was traded to the Twins following the 1961 season, yet he was never issued a replacement coin and would be part of both shields, despite never playing for the Indians in 1962.

Center fielder, Jim Piersall, was traded to the Senators after the 1961 season. In reality, a rookie named Ty Cline was the full-time center fielder in 1962 and would have made a better choice for a replacement coin. Instead, Salada chose to immortalize Walt Bond, a seldom used outfielder who played a grand total of 13 games in center field in his six year career. Sadly, Bond died in 1967 at age 29 of Leukemia.

The expansion of the NL into Houston and New York was responsible for a lot of the confusion. Many of the "A" players ended up as "B" players on those two teams, as they were selected in the expansion draft. Many of the remaining "A" players, plus many of the additional 21 were shifted to the teams that lost players in the expansion draft to fill the voids.

The bottom line is that it was actually quite an enjoyable exercise and if anybody would like to see my results, let me know and I'll post them, a few teams at a time.

Thanks again, Fred, for taking the time to respond!

John

[whiteymet]

John:

One thing you have to keep in mind about the Piersal/Cline etc. is the coins were planned out in early 1961 not 1962. These had a huge lead time in order to get players to sign contracts, get photos do artwork, design and get the shells made etc.

Don't know why they selected Bond instead of to take the place of Piersall with the Indians. Was Bond a bigger prospect than Cline?

They did make changes right up to the expansion draft which was after the 1961 season, but as mentioned the coins were in the works early in 1961. I have internal records that I would have to dig out to see what is the earliest paperwork I have..

[whiteymet]

John:

Found the photos on an old computer. Don't know if they will show up enough for you. If you want PM me your email address and I will send them as am attachment so you can blow them up on your computer.

First photo is the earlier of the two with the 21 coins that were dropped on it. Any coins on here SHOULD BE "A's" but as we spoke about are not. The second sheet has the "new" 21 coins including numbers over 180 and coins on here should be "B's"

And as noted neither sheet has the Williams name on right, Brandt Orioles , Bailey C level with ear because they were from an even earlier test print run than the first sheet

Sorry one turned sideways. Don't know how to change it.

BTW this should be in the post war forum. You may get better responses if it were there



Fred

[droid714]

Ty Cline and Walt Bond both spent the 1960-62 seasons with the Indians. Both played only a handful of games in 1960-61. Neither had what could be considered a "breakout" season but Cline was given the CF position in 1962.

Cline was the prototypical CF of his era. 6' tall and 170 lbs. with good speed and a good glove. He had a very average season in 1962 and was sent to the Braves after the season.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/clinety01.shtml

Bond was a giant of a man at 6' 7" and 230 lbs. who had decent speed and a good glove. Unfortunately, he didn't hit for much of an average and didn't have the power you would expect from someone of his size. He only played a handful of games in 1962. He spent 1963 in the minors and was sold to Houston prior to the 1964 season.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/bondwa01.shtml

Keep in mind, these were the Indians of 1962. After having great teams throughout the 1940's and 50's and contending in 1959, they were in their third season of what would eventually turn into 35 years of some of the worst baseball ever played by any major league franchise.

You can count on the fingers of both hands the number of truly talented players who played for the Indians during those 35 years and they were generally sold off to make payroll.

I can't really fault the decision makers at Salada for their choices concerning the Indians of that time. Most of the players were either untested rookies or past their prime old-timers trying for one last shot of glory. The roster turned over so quickly that you barely got to know the players.

Just to prove my point, here's the list of the 13 Indians on the Salada coins and the last season that they played for the Indians:

John Romano C (1964)
Vic Power 1B (1961)
Johnny Temple 2B (1961)
Ken Aspromonte 2B (1962)
Woodie Held (SS) (1964)
Bubba Phillips 3B (1962)
Tito Francona OF (1964)
Jim Piersall OF (1961)
Walt Bond OF (1962)
Willie Kirkland OF (1963)
Jim Grant P (1964)
Jim Perry P (1963)
Gary Bell P (1967)

As you can see, all but one player of what was considered in 1962 to be the core of the Indians team was gone by 1965.

[droid714]

I actually though I had posted this in the post war forum. Is there any way that I can move it?

[droid714]

Sorry, duplicate post.

[droid714]

Sorry, duplicate post.

[swarmee]

I actually though I had posted this in the post war forum. Is there any way that I can move it?
I have made that request for you. Normally, you would send a board message to Leon.

[droid714]

Thanks, Swarmee. I appreciate it!

[brian1961]

Good afternoon, John. Brian Powell here. Several years ago, I wrote an E-book on a CD entitled, Never Cheaper By the Dozen. It's a 478-page whopper of a book about the immediate post-war regional / food issues---those special "free prizes" with a purchase. All too often, they're murder if you're trying to complete the set, or get individual stars, particularly in high-graded condition. I devoted chapter 5 to the amazing 1962 Salada Coins, titled, "WHEN YOU REALLY LIKE SOMETHING, YOU KNOW IT". It's 18 pages long, and there just might be a few things in there you didn't know about this wondrous set.

Should you be interested in purchasing the book, Google the title and you'll find the press release entry still available to see on the Sports Collector's Digest site. It was written by their fine former editor, and my editor, Tom Bartsch. At the end of the press release is ordering details.

Again John, it's an E-book on a CD. You read it by installing the disc into the disc drive of your computer. If you don't have a disc drive, I'm afraid I've wasted your time.

Regardless, have fun pursuing the '62 Saladas; that was one special food issue!:)

Kind regards, Brian Powell

[MRSPORTSCARDCOLLECTOR]

A fun anecdote story about this Salada set that my late uncle and late grandfather told me was when they collected this series they couldn`t get Yaz for some reason to complete the set. My uncle and grandfather lived in the Boston area, so they wrote Salada a letter saying they would pay a little extra for the Yaz. Salada sent them a Yaz for free to complete the set.
:)

[droid714]

Thanks for the info, Brian! I'll be sure to track down a copy!

[droid714]

Good story, Mrsportscardcollector! It was nice of Salada to supply the missing coin!

Ironically, the only set I ever tried to complete as a kid was the 1966 Topps set. The only card I was missing was #70 Yaz!

[brian1961]

Thanks for the info, Brian! I'll be sure to track down a copy!

John, you're most welcome. I honestly believe you would enjoy my book strictly for the chapter on the '62 Saladas. I had a lot of fun with that chapter, and tried to keep conjecture to a minimum, while doing some in-depth interpretive understanding 501. There's a couple nice personal stories from my own collecting past, that you may find entertaining.

I'm the only person who sells hard copies, John, so if you should decide to give Never Cheaper By the Dozen a try, you can email me at bfpowell2003@yahoo.com. I have plenty of copies left; that's for certain.;)

Have a swell day, bro. I'm off to work, shortly. ---- Brian Powell

[droid714]

Thanks to the images of the two uncut Salada sheets supplied by Fred, I was able to assemble a spreadsheet by team comparing printing sheet #1 with printing sheet #2. Sheet #1 contains the original 180 coins; sheet #2 has #s 201 through 221 in place of 21 coins that were removed from sheet #1.

I also put together a side-by-side checklist comparing the two sheets.

They are too large to post here, but if anyone would like a copy, send me a PM with your email address and I'll send you a copy.

John

[droid714]

Sorry, tried to post the checklist but it didn't work.