Let's welcome Charlie Barokas to the Billion Dollar Fraud!

[Fuddjcal]

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1348201

Let's all give this jackass a nice warm welcome to PSA's Cavalcade of Stars!!!

[Exhibitman]

Is there going to be a card set?

[Fuddjcal]

Is there going to be a card set?

probably a 7 series, 700+ card set:D

I just want the entire set in PSA 10's. I will wait for 5 months like an ignoramus until it POPS!

[samosa4u]

I think it's great what BODA has done, but don't these guys have anything better to do than to just sit there examining COMMONS all day long? I seriously don't give two sh*ts about Billy Cox and Gene Ronzani.

I want to see something BIG, man! Let's see some trimmed WATERFRONT cards, guys! Show the world some trimmed Mantles, Mays, Robinsons, Ruths, Gehrigs, Cobbs, Clementes, Aarons, etc.

[Republicaninmass]

Happened to see one card in the last page was like a 19k gainer.

[Johnny630]

Johnny Unitas this broke my heart!!!

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1290614&page=254

Registry is False

Pop Report is False

MarketPlace is False and Highly Manipulated

[btcarfagno]

I think it's great what BODA has done, but don't these guys have anything better to do than to just sit there examining COMMONS all day long? I seriously don't give two sh*ts about Billy Cox and Gene Ronzani.

I want to see something BIG, man! Let's see some trimmed WATERFRONT cards, guys! Show the world some trimmed Mantles, Mays, Robinsons, Ruths, Gehrigs, Cobbs, Clementes, Aarons, etc.

Have you not been paying attention? The number of five figure cards is staggering. And it's just the tip of the proverbial iceberg. Trimmers are going to Target lower value cards because "working on" a card already worth four figures has too much downside. But they are out there if you have been paying attention.

[rats60]

Johnny Unitas this broke my heart!!!

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1290614&page=254

Registry is False

Pop Report is False

MarketPlace is False and Highly Manipulated

This is the sad thing. A NM card is special. Now it is ruined.

[samosa4u]

Trimmers are going to Target lower value cards because "working on" a card already worth four figures has too much downside.

Yeah, this is what I figured. Almost every card that has been outed by BODA is a common. It's definitely a lot more difficult to trim a waterfront card and get away with it. For example, if you trim a Goudey Ruth, then it's definitely going to get measured and looked at by three or four different graders.

[ullmandds]

Yeah, this is what I figured. Almost every card that has been outed by BODA is a common. It's definitely a lot more difficult to trim a waterfront card and get away with it. For example, if you trim a Goudey Ruth, then it's definitely going to get measured and looked at by three or four different graders.

Ya right!

[Johnny630]

This is the sad thing. A NM card is special. Now it is ruined.

It will be cracked.....we are back to square one....a fake Opinion Giving Company Could Very Well Slab Again for Some New Favorite Invitational Customer

Registry is Fake

Pop Report is Fake

We know they need us more then we need them our volume has never been higher keep quiet the suckers aren’t going to stop sending us cards
It’s gold Jerry Gold

[Republicaninmass]

A billion is a thousand million. I think we are a little far from that.

Nothing like sensationalism

[Phil68]

Johnny Unitas this broke my heart!!!

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1290614&page=254

Registry is False

Pop Report is False

MarketPlace is False and Highly Manipulated

With you, Johnny. The Unitas was a gorgeous card just as it was. SMDH

[Phil68]

This whole thing saddens me. Charlie is a photo fanatic, like myself. Spectacular collector. SUCH a nice guy.
Integrity is a very simple thing; it really is. Compromising it becomes a habit for some people, I guess. I don't want to believe this but the evidence is certainly strong. This is the first time this thing has really sunk in. Damned shame.

[Phil68]

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1348201

Let's all give this jackass a nice warm welcome to PSA's Cavalcade of Stars!!!

Chuck,
I appreciate your humor. You made me laugh at something that really bums me out. We have to laugh. Meanwhile, I guess the take-away is "don't stop at the holder--LOOK at the card really closely. The holder is only the first step and nowhere near foolproof."

[trambo]

A billion is a thousand million. I think we are a little far from that.

Nothing like sensationalism


No truer words have been spoken! Seems that the mantra of the OP is "billion dollar fraud."

Saying it hundreds of times doesn't make it so. Appreciate there's some big issues but i'd agree it's not a billion.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

I seriously don't give two sh*ts about Billy Cox

Maybe you should try getting to know me before putting your line in the sand. ;)

[perezfan]

Might not be a billion (yet).

But what’s been exposed is merely the tip of the iceberg. I wouldn’t be surprised if that number becomes fact after a couple more years.

[Republicaninmass]

Might not be a billion (yet).

But what’s been exposed is merely the tip of the iceberg. I wouldn’t be surprised if that number becomes fact after a couple more years.


Would you take the over/under it's a billion?

[bnorth]

Would you take the over/under it's a billion?

I would 100% take the over.:)

[Republicaninmass]

I would 100% take the over.:)Didnt they try adding on BO and didnt get to 1 million?

I bet there's a Brazilian trimmed cards

(Pele)

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[bnorth]

Didnt they try adding on BO and didnt get to 1 million?

I bet there's a Brazilian trimmed cards

(Pele)

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

I have no idea if they tried that on BO. I really don't watch it that close.

Isn't there a PSA 8 that is several million by itself?

Even if they got to $500K on blowout do you think they have uncovered even 1/2000th of the dollar amount of ALL altered cards, I don't. I would think with all the altered cards out there they would be lucky to have uncovered that percentage so far.

Just my silly honest opinion.:)

[jmarascojr]

I think it's great what BODA has done, but don't these guys have anything better to do than to just sit there examining COMMONS all day long? I seriously don't give two sh*ts about Billy Cox and Gene Ronzani.

I want to see something BIG, man! Let's see some trimmed WATERFRONT cards, guys! Show the world some trimmed Mantles, Mays, Robinsons, Ruths, Gehrigs, Cobbs, Clementes, Aarons, etc.

You should really take a look at the number of threads over on BO, specifically in the baseball section.... They have outted cards connected to a majority of HOFers you have listed above...

Didnt they try adding on BO and didnt get to 1 million?

I bet there's a Brazilian trimmed cards

(Pele)

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

They outted a couple Pele cards in the last couple of days....

[samosa4u]

You should really take a look at the number of threads over on BO, specifically in the baseball section.... They have outted cards connected to a majority of HOFers you have listed above...
[/B]

A 1965 Topps Koufax is not a waterfront card and nor is a 1968 Willie Mays card.

If you don't know what a waterfront card is, then search some past threads on this site where collectors discuss them.

The only waterfront card I remember seeing that was trimmed was a 1958 Topps Bobby Hull rookie. I remember the 1952 Topps Mantle as well, but I don't believe that one was trimmed. I think the corners got pressed down or something like that. And then there was that Cracker Jack Joe Jackson which was soaked - that was a bad one too. Otherwise, I have no interest in reading through thousands of pages discussing crappy cards.

[buymycards]

I have been collecting for a long time and I have never heard the term "waterfront" in regard to sports cards.

[bnorth]

I have been collecting for a long time and I have never heard the term "waterfront" in regard to sports cards.

I have mainly heard that term from the "no lawsuit" gentleman.

[swarmee]

Otherwise, I have no interest in reading through thousands of pages discussing crappy cards.
Why do they have to cater to your needs? Superinflated ego?

[todeen]

A 1965 Topps Koufax is not a waterfront card and nor is a 1968 Willie Mays card.

If you don't know what a waterfront card is, then search some past threads on this site where collectors discuss them.

The only waterfront card I remember seeing that was trimmed was a 1958 Topps Bobby Hull rookie. I remember the 1952 Topps Mantle as well, but I don't believe that one was trimmed. I think the corners got pressed down or something like that. And then there was that Cracker Jack Joe Jackson which was soaked - that was a bad one too. Otherwise, I have no interest in reading through thousands of pages discussing crappy cards.


Isn't the T206 Wagner Gretzky card altered? It was altered in the 1980s, and slabbed in the 1990s. And about a month ago, I believe Blowout outed a Babe Ruth Goudey card, altered by the former football player.

If I have to take over/under on $1 Billion of fraud, I am taking over. You have to consider that the fraud is running at almost 30 years deep since PSA claimed the Wagner was an 8 NM-MT. How many of these altered cards, even altered commons, from the 1980s, have been sold, resold, resold, resold, resold.....

[ctownboy]

Hello,

1) I absolutely despise the term "waterfront card".

2) If PSA is in on the scam or if they are just incompetent, wouldn't you have to also look at the company stock price in this matter? Whatever is going on and however it is happening, I would think the stock price of the company is much higher now than it otherwise would be if people knew what was going on. If that is true then I would think you would have to add in the difference in stock price which would be part of the total cost of the fraud people are claiming.

David

[Fuddjcal]

I think it's great what BODA has done, but don't these guys have anything better to do than to just sit there examining COMMONS all day long? I seriously don't give two sh*ts about Billy Cox and Gene Ronzani.

I want to see something BIG, man! Let's see some trimmed WATERFRONT cards, guys! Show the world some trimmed Mantles, Mays, Robinsons, Ruths, Gehrigs, Cobbs, Clementes, Aarons, etc.

What about the Johnny Unitas they make 18K on. Or the Mick "Ten" glehoff for 600. :D:D:D

That's the beauty of the gig. make 700 on some no name and move on. It's all in the POP my friend, All in the POP:D:D

[Fuddjcal]

A 1965 Topps Koufax is not a waterfront card and nor is a 1968 Willie Mays card.

If you don't know what a waterfront card is, then search some past threads on this site where collectors discuss them.

The only waterfront card I remember seeing that was trimmed was a 1958 Topps Bobby Hull rookie. I remember the 1952 Topps Mantle as well, but I don't believe that one was trimmed. I think the corners got pressed down or something like that. And then there was that Cracker Jack Joe Jackson which was soaked - that was a bad one too. Otherwise, I have no interest in reading through thousands of pages discussing crappy cards.

This entire card selling business thing is HOME ON THE "WATERFRONT".

It's easily a billion, but is it multi-billion dollar scheme? Some would argue no. It's just a billion dollar fraud, only. So keep on submitting while they sit on their hands over there at your favorite Pop store. While they continue to shear you like a baby lamb.

[btcarfagno]

Is the Namath rookie a "waterfront" card? The one they uncovered was like. $50k fraud in itself I believe.

[samosa4u]

And about a month ago, I believe Blowout outed a Babe Ruth Goudey card, altered by the former football player.


Post it here. The only Ruth I ever recall seeing over there was that Look 'N See card.

So keep on submitting while they sit on their hands over there at your favorite Pop store. While they continue to shear you like a baby lamb.

Dude, your posts are funny, but if you don't collect sports cards anymore, then it's time to move on.

[todeen]

Post it here. The only Ruth I ever recall seeing over there was that Look 'N See card.


I had to look it up, but I was correct. Evan Mathis bought it altered, resubmitted, and turned it into a VG-EX 4.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1340211&highlight=trimming

[todeen]

Evan Mathis also bought a Michael Jordan RC, as a 7, and then resubmitted - or altered it - and turned it into a 9. I would call that a waterfront card.

[midmo]

I want to see something BIG, man! Let's see some trimmed WATERFRONT cards, guys! Show the world some trimmed Mantles, Mays, Robinsons, Ruths, Gehrigs, Cobbs, Clementes, Aarons, etc.

There are tons of them. I just did a quick browse of one of the blowout threads...

1909 E09-1 Cobb - $3,633 gain
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpost.php?p=15151736&postcount=5611

1909 T206 Cobb - $7,709 gain
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpost.php?p=14864615&postcount=4373

1909 T206 Dahlen - $2,240 gain
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpost.php?p=15397233&postcount=6197

1909 T206 Street - $4,714 gain
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpost.php?p=15398757&postcount=6209

1909 T206 Walter Johnson - $9,190 gain
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpost.php?p=14887654&postcount=4737

1909 E90 Joe Jackson - $1,800 gain
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpost.php?p=14727636&postcount=2456

1909 E95 Cobb - $1,685 gain
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpost.php?p=14950222&postcount=5305

1911 M116 Wagner - $1,561 gain
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpost.php?p=14971933&postcount=5456

1914 Cracker Jack Ty Cobb - $8,350 gain
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpost.php?p=14953060&postcount=5354

1915 Cracker Jack Joe Jackson- $4,340 gain
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpost.php?p=14963767&postcount=5439

1921 Exhibit Ruth - $2,839 gain
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpost.php?p=14947597&postcount=5282

1933 Goudey Gehrig - $2,238 gain
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpost.php?p=14943982&postcount=5250

1933 Goudey Ruth - $936 gain
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpost.php?p=14873573&postcount=4551

1938 Goudey DiMaggio - $945 gain
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpost.php?p=14709366&postcount=1949

1939 Playball Ted Williams - $1,171 gain
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpost.php?p=14902526&postcount=4933

1948 Leaf Musial - $5,409 gain
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpost.php?p=14667976&postcount=926

1948 Leaf Jackie Robinson - $8,705 gain
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpost.php?p=14843861&postcount=4123

1951 Bowman Mantle - $4,436 gain
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpost.php?p=14716981&postcount=2287

1951 Bowman Mays - $2,456 gain
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpost.php?p=14711920&postcount=2107

1951 Bowman Mays - $64,140 gain
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpost.php?p=15233605&postcount=5934

1952 Bowman Musial - $25,300 gain
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpost.php?p=14746573&postcount=2626

1952 Topps Campanella - $5,028 gain
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpost.php?p=14738254&postcount=2535

1952 Topps Mantle - $5,567
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpost.php?p=14719357&postcount=2333

1954 Topps Aaron - $137,030 gain
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpost.php?p=15250968&postcount=5992

1954 Topps Kaline - $2,951 gain
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpost.php?p=15166058&postcount=5643

1955 Topps Clemente - $6,694 gain
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpost.php?p=14719516&postcount=2342

1957 Topps Clemente - $4,114 gain
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpost.php?p=15178307&postcount=5683

1957 Topps Mantle - $5,119 gain
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpost.php?p=14876649&postcount=4608

1957 Topps Yankees Power Hitters - $2,665 gain
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpost.php?p=15279089&postcount=6068

1957 Topps Yankees team - $2,918 gain
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpost.php?p=15293813&postcount=6077

1958 Topps Clemente - $38,378 gain
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpost.php?p=15229975&postcount=5907

1958 Topps Bobby Hull - $60,000 gain
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpost.php?p=15126484&postcount=5576

1958 Topps Mantle - $4,775 gain
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpost.php?p=15126962&postcount=5585

1959 Topps Unitas - $17,993 gain
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpost.php?p=15480369&postcount=6332

1960 Bell Brand Koufax - $2,800 gain
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpost.php?p=15462769&postcount=6273

1961 Topps Jerry West - $3,845 gain
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpost.php?p=14719229&postcount=2327

1961-62 Philadelphia Wilt Chamberlain - $4,844 gain
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpost.php?p=14741720&postcount=2574

1965 Topps Carlton - $1,655 gain
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpost.php?p=15390887&postcount=6195

1965 Topps Namath - $4,224 gain
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpost.php?p=15379741&postcount=6185

1965 Topps Namath - $252,000 gain
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpost.php?p=15202079&postcount=5739

1968 Topps Ryan - $1,800 gain
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpost.php?p=14887441&postcount=4732

1969 Topps Alcindor - $13,926 gain
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpost.php?p=15273574&postcount=6044

1969 Topps Bench - $11,091 gain
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpost.php?p=15347125&postcount=6147

1969 Topps Mantle white letters - $18,386 gain
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpost.php?p=15170456&postcount=5653

1969 Topps Ryan - $1,627 gain
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpost.php?p=15390410&postcount=6192

[swarmee]

Didnt they try adding on BO and didnt get to 1 million?
They cleared a million easily with just the PWCC thread.

[Republicaninmass]

One billion

Not 10 million

Not 100 million

That's 1000 million

[trambo]

I would imagine if you grabbed all of the trimmed cards from the inception of the hobby to today you may get a billion dollars in value changes. I would also imagine that if you put it to the current situation that you would get far, far less than a billion of improved value. As I said yesterday, just because people keep saying it doesn't make it so. A billion is a bunch. This isn't a billion. Don't get me wrong, it's bad when people cheat but a billion...no way.

I've also been wondering what people's thoughts are regarding the % of cards graded that are actually tainted in some way. I would guess that number to be pretty low but am curious if anyone else had a thought. I'm thinking < 1% of cards graded. No data to support it but it's just my hunch.

[Johnny630]

I would imagine if you grabbed all of the trimmed cards from the inception of the hobby to today you may get a billion dollars in value changes. I would also imagine that if you put it to the current situation that you would get far, far less than a billion of improved value. As I said yesterday, just because people keep saying it doesn't make it so. A billion is a bunch. This isn't a billion. Don't get me wrong, it's bad when people cheat but a billion...no way.

I've also been wondering what people's thoughts are regarding the % of cards graded that are actually tainted in some way. I would guess that number to be pretty low but am curious if anyone else had a thought. I'm thinking < 1% of cards graded. No data to support it but it's just my hunch.

I believe it way way more they %1 of the total population of graded cards that are altered in some way, WAY MORE.

[Johnny630]

I believe it way way more they %1 of the total population of graded cards that are altered in some way, WAY MORE.

The big major issue to me is so far the Buyers and Auction Houses/Major
Sellers Do Not Care if a card is altered or whom gives them the card to consign its all about if it’s Slabbed By PSA they could care less altered or not. Look at the stupid Numbers things are selling for on Pwcc Mile High and Heritage unless they’re all manipulated bids/sales......Very Will Could Be...One Last Manufactured Run to Pump and Dump their inventories before the Crash......idk it’s trash....makes me sick

[Rhotchkiss]

If PSA is in on the scam or if they are just incompetent, wouldn't you have to also look at the company stock price in this matter? Whatever is going on and however it is happening, I would think the stock price of the company is much higher now than it otherwise would be if people knew what was going on. If that is true then I would think you would have to add in the difference in stock price which would be part of the total cost of the fraud people are claiming.

Let me qualify by saying that I do not understand the stock market well and I have not owned a single share of stock in a publicly traded company for over 10 years (including in a 401k, which I do not have).

In regards to PSA's stock price, I think several things are going on: First, I think the stock market is just like every other "vehicle" out there, in that people do not want to lose money. The world today reminds me very much of 2007. I do not understand why/how the stock market keeps going up, and I fear what is around the corner. People will do all they can to keep the good times rolling, until the bottom falls out. And, like with cards (or anything else that people are significantly invested in), shareholders in PSA want their stock to keep going up; even if that includes blatantly disregarding bad facts and warning signs. So I think there may be some convenient ignorance.

Second, I think there may be actual ignorance. From what I read, PSA has been doing a very good job of censoring and deflecting. They seem to be keeping damage to a minimum for now, hoping this all passes and doubling down on the faulty plan. Thus, I think fewer people know whats going on than we think. And, isnt that what happened to Enron? The stock was a dynamo until one day bad news came out and it sank like a Led Zeppelin? (I am pretty sure thats how they got their name).

So, I think many people dont know whats going, and most that do know whats going on, either dont care or pretend it does not exist.

Third, I think PSA is a fairly thinly traded stock, and I bet the larger stockholders have been somewhat (albeit legally) manipulating the price by either not selling or buying. The value of the stock should not fluctuate too much unless a few major movers, make moves. And perhaps the wise move for a major stockholder of PSA is either to buy, or certainly not sell.

I have come to believe that PSA is both incompetent, and on some level, 100% a part of this, and I would like to see them take a massive hit (and some officers go to country club jail); I do think they get it right more often than not, and I still want my cards in a slab (PSA or SGC), but I do think there is a very dirty thing going on in California. I think that as long as people keep at it, and noise is being made, the truth will catch up to PSA, and that truth will be reflected in the stock price (like Enron).

For this reason, it is crucial that BODA keep exposing all the altered cards, not just the "waterfront" ones, and why it is crucial that us message board(ers) dont disparage those calling out the card doctors and the TPGs that give them wings. The 1914 CJ Jacksons make the headlines, but the thousands of altered commons are what shows the pattern and proves the crime/scheme beyond any doubt.

[Republicaninmass]

I'm not trying to lessen the extent of the fraud. When people make outlandish claims, it actually LESSENS the credibility surrounding the claim. Albeit from the resident pedestrian poster.

[swarmee]

My personal guess is that between 10-20% of PSA graded cards are altered without detection. Looks like David Thorn and Evan Mathis were able to trim uncut sheets and get them slabbed by PSA as originally cut in the 1960s/70s. Again, some of these card doctors have been slabbing a 1000+ cards a year for 10 years each. 10x10x1,000 = 100,000 cards just from these guys. And we're not even talking about all the bleaching, erasures, pressing, etc that isn't as detectable from images without before and after pictures.

Again, it's not like all these card alterers were only submitting five cards at a time. Often, the submissions are 100 cards long with only 3 being outed as trimmed. If you want to believe that the other 97% are clean until given visible evidence, you can. I don't live in Fantasyland.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

This is the sad thing. A NM card is special. Now it is ruined.

An EX tobacco card used to be the prize of a collection.

[swarmee]

In regards to PSA's stock price, I think several things are going on: First, I think the stock market is just like every other "vehicle" out there, in that people do not want to lose money.
Solid post; the other thing that seemed to goose the stock price was that last year it was kind of floating in no-man's land. Then, right at the beginning of the scandal with PWCC, the stock was finally big enough in market cap to get listed in the top 2000 (or whatever) stocks on its exchange. Therefore, those who invest based on market buckets for diversification and who invest in this exchange bought lots of shares to match the Top 2000. Therefore, there was some increase in the stock price just because the stock price had increased over some arbitrary line where more investors needed the stock.
They weren't necessarily investing in CU/PSA; they were investing in the stock itself. An odd corollary to the whole buy the card/not the flip discussion.

[1952boyntoncollector]

I think it's great what BODA has done, but don't these guys have anything better to do than to just sit there examining COMMONS all day long? I seriously don't give two sh*ts about Billy Cox and Gene Ronzani.

I want to see something BIG, man! Let's see some trimmed WATERFRONT cards, guys! Show the world some trimmed Mantles, Mays, Robinsons, Ruths, Gehrigs, Cobbs, Clementes, Aarons, etc.

funny 'WATERFRONT' is my lingo on this forum for years..

[1952boyntoncollector]

Solid post; the other thing that seemed to goose the stock price was that last year it was kind of floating in no-man's land. Then, right at the beginning of the scandal with PWCC, the stock was finally big enough in market cap to get listed in the top 2000 (or whatever) stocks on its exchange. Therefore, those who invest based on market buckets for diversification and who invest in this exchange bought lots of shares to match the Top 2000. Therefore, there was some increase in the stock price just because the stock price had increased over some arbitrary line where more investors needed the stock.
They weren't necessarily investing in CU/PSA; they were investing in the stock itself. An odd corollary to the whole buy the card/not the flip discussion.

Thats actually a good time to buy stocks..when they go on the bigger listing where the big guys buy them to diversify...lots of free buyers out there that raise the price..

[buymycards]

My personal guess is that between 10-20% of PSA graded cards are altered without detection. Looks like David Thorn and Evan Mathis were able to trim uncut sheets and get them slabbed by PSA as originally cut in the 1960s/70s. Again, some of these card doctors have been slabbing a 1000+ cards a year for 10 years each. 10x10x1,000 = 100,000 cards just from these guys. And we're not even talking about all the bleaching, erasures, pressing, etc that isn't as detectable from images without before and after pictures.

Again, it's not like all these card alterers were only submitting five cards at a time. Often, the submissions are 100 cards long with only 3 being outed as trimmed. If you want to believe that the other 97% are clean until given visible evidence, you can. I don't live in Fantasyland.


PSA claims to have slabbed 30 million cards. If 5% of these are altered, that is 1.5 million altered cards. That would be $667 per card to equal one billion dollars. And that is not counting problem cards and auto's from SGC, Beckett, GAI, etc. This could easily go over the 1 Billion mark.

[Johnny630]

PSA claims to have slabbed 30 million cards. If 5% of these are altered, that is 1.5 million altered cards. That would be $667 per card to equal one billion dollars. And that is not counting problem cards and auto's from SGC, Beckett, GAI, etc. This could easily go over the 1 Billion mark.


It so sad but it doesn’t matter one bit. Everything is priced in no prosecution or law enforcement action is going to stop this ........the only way it stops is when the buyers dry up.....period the market will either fix/correct itself or this is just the way it’s going to be.....PSA Auction Houses and Major Registry guys want it this way they don’t want their gravy train to end.

So disgraceful but this is the bottom line facts ......I can’t stomach it anymore that’s why I’ve chosen to sell almost all...I feel better waiting on the sidelines to see what happens

[drcy]

Laurel: "Three million dollars! Is that as much as a thousand?"
Hardy: "Why, man alive! It's TWICE as much!"

[rats60]

An EX tobacco card used to be the prize of a collection.

It still is over an 8 or 9 that you know has been altered to get in that slab.

[BeanTown]

Not to mention, how many times an altered card gets submitted for grading. With the quest for PSAs coveted blessing, the pop of graded cards is going through the roof!

[perezfan]

Regarding the term "Billion Dollar Fraud"... there is more to it than just the altered cards themselves. Sure the cards alone could exceed a billion some day, if only 1 - 2% of the fraud has been uncovered to date. It is very difficult to research and expose these cards, since eBay hides identities and thus protects criminals. So God only knows how many more have yet to be revealed.

That said, there are other factors that contribute to the $1 Billion number...

Massive cumulative Ebay fees taken in on the altered cards
Buyers and Sellers commissions received by auction houses
PSA fees for grading and continually re-grading altered cards

So the tangential beneficiaries in the scam are eBay, auction houses, dealers and especially the profit-based "turn a blind eye" TPGs. All of these beneficiaries are in addition to the owners of these tainted cards. With all of this related "income" factored in, I am confident it will eventually exceed the Billion Dollar mark.

That is, unless the FBI can put a stop to it, make the appropriate arrests, and shut down the guilty parties. Since the bulk of collectors don't seen to even know or care, Law Enforcement seems to be our only hope to stop short of the Billion.

[Republicaninmass]

Dont forget PSA and their "inner circle" of passing these cards.


Cu has a market cap of 10 billion.

A 10 billion dollar fraud, say it with me now....

[Johnny630]

Regarding the term "Billion Dollar Fraud"... there is more to it than just the altered cards themselves. Sure the cards alone could exceed a billion some day, if only 1 - 2% of the fraud has been uncovered to date. It is very difficult to research and expose these cards, since eBay hides identities and thus protects criminals. So God only knows how many more have yet to be revealed.

That said, there are other factors that contribute to the $1 Billion number...

Massive cumulative Ebay fees taken in on the altered cards
Buyers and Sellers commissions received by auction houses
PSA fees for grading and continually re-grading altered cards

So the tangential beneficiaries in the scam are eBay, auction houses, dealers and especially the profit-based "turn a blind eye" TPGs. All of these beneficiaries are in addition to the owners of these tainted cards. With all of this related "income" factored in, I am confident it will eventually exceed the Billion Dollar mark.

That is, unless the FBI can put a stop to it, make the appropriate arrests, and shut down the guilty parties. Since the bulk of collectors don't seen to even know or care, Law Enforcement seems to be our only hope to stop short of the Billion.

Agee Mark with all of this PLUS since the end of 2013 I can’t explain these stupid numbers by certain auctions I would Say Manipulation Of Sales....how many were allegedly shilled and or not paid for and re listed ??

[Fuddjcal]

Dont forget PSA and their "inner circle" of passing these cards.


Cu has a market cap of 10 billion.

A 10 billion dollar fraud, say it with me now....

Thanks for making me grin during this difficult time Ted.
Let's just say Multi-Billion up to 10 bil.

Hard to even try and make a joke today after the Kobe news.

[japhi]

Personally I think the 1B number is ridiculous. PSA is only a 75mm company, and more then half of that from coins. Cards, I think 30mm or so. I suspect BGS is much smaller.

It is however hard to swag this thing, but what we know is BO has found 5-10MM in value lift between all sports. And they only have access to a minuscule amount of data - only a fraction of only sales can be worked and most raw, card show, private, set, lot, etc cards are untraceable.

So this thing is clearly wide ranging and the number is big. But the guys hyperventilating about 1b need to chill out a bit or show how the math works on that number.

[Flintboy]

At the end of the day it shouldn’t matter if it’s $100 or 1 billion dollars in fraud. It’s criminally, morally, and ethically wrong.

[drcy]

One trillion

[Tabe]

Start with the Gretzky Wagner card - that card has been sold and re-sold multiple times for millions of dollars. That's a pretty good head start towards a billion.

[Mark17]

Start with the Gretzky Wagner card - that card has been sold and re-sold multiple times for millions of dollars. That's a pretty good head start towards a billion.

The folks who bought that card then sold it for a profit didn't suffer any loss from the trim job.

When prices for doctored cards with high grades are increasing, the people who bought and sold them, generally, are not suffering financial loss. The full impact of the fraud won't be felt unless/until the value of the doctored/overgraded cards collapse.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Personally I think the 1B number is ridiculous. PSA is only a 75mm company, and more then half of that from coins. Cards, I think 30mm or so. I suspect BGS is much smaller.

It is however hard to swag this thing, but what we know is BO has found 5-10MM in value lift between all sports. And they only have access to a minuscule amount of data - only a fraction of only sales can be worked and most raw, card show, private, set, lot, etc cards are untraceable.

So this thing is clearly wide ranging and the number is big. But the guys hyperventilating about 1b need to chill out a bit or show how the math works on that number.

????

First, they've graded or authenticated over 30 million pieces. If it's an average price of $20 per that's $600 million.

Second, what on earth does that have to do with the dollar value of the scandal? If they grade a card that should be worth $500,000 and give it a grade that results in it being worth $10 million, do you think the fraud is just the cost of grading???!!!

[iowadoc77]

The folks who bought that card then sold it for a profit didn't suffer any loss from the trim job.

When prices for doctored cards with high grades are increasing, the people who bought and sold them, generally, are not suffering financial loss. The full impact of the fraud won't be felt unless/until the value of the doctored/overgraded cards collapse.

Really good point and a different angle to consider.

[japhi]

????

First, they've graded or authenticated over 30 million pieces. If it's an average price of $20 per that's $600 million.

Second, what on earth does that have to do with the dollar value of the scandal? If they grade a card that should be worth $500,000 and give it a grade that results in it being worth $10 million, do you think the fraud is just the cost of grading???!!!

Relax, it was just one data point. 30mm per annum is their aprox gross rev from card grading. PWCC is maybe a 5mm company. The hobby is not as big as some of you believe.

But, if you have the math on 1b in fraud lets see it. That number is being thrown around as fact. I think folks are over estimating the size

And in case anyone is confused I think this thing is big, real big. I won’t be submitting or collecting graded cards, it’s very clearly a racket that skews towards large submitters and dirt bags. I just don’t think it’s helpful to throw around numbers like 1b or hyper ventilate like Chuck does every day here.

[luciobar1980]

I just look at all this as more reason to stick to nicely presenting mid-grade cards.

[steve B]

A 1965 Topps Koufax is not a waterfront card and nor is a 1968 Willie Mays card.

If you don't know what a waterfront card is, then search some past threads on this site where collectors discuss them.

The only waterfront card I remember seeing that was trimmed was a 1958 Topps Bobby Hull rookie. I remember the 1952 Topps Mantle as well, but I don't believe that one was trimmed. I think the corners got pressed down or something like that. And then there was that Cracker Jack Joe Jackson which was soaked - that was a bad one too. Otherwise, I have no interest in reading through thousands of pages discussing crappy cards.

Well, thank goodness the elitists don't have to worry about their cards being altered :rolleyes:

Maybe there's another forum that keeps us riff raff out? Like maybe over at CU?

[slidekellyslide]

I just look at all this as more reason to stick to nicely presenting mid-grade cards.

You mean like 3's that have been doctored into 5's?

[samosa4u]

You mean like 3's that have been doctored into 5's?

I think it's more easier to turn a 6 into an 8 compared to turning a 3 into a 5. Most 3s out there are crap - corner wear, creasing, etc. Hard to turn that into a 5.

[Stampsfan]

There are tons of them. I just did a quick browse of one of the blowout threads...


Is that all you could come up with in a short time? Sheeesh.

;)

[WhenItWasAHobby]

Reading through the Blowout link, the person of topic actually posted on Net54 regarding his position (or better put: denials) on trimming.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpost.php?p=15480266&postcount=11

[Exhibitman]

http://photos.imageevent.com/exhibitman/dropins/websize/dr%20evil.jpg

What would PSA's CEO say?

[1952boyntoncollector]

I have been collecting for a long time and I have never heard the term "waterfront" in regard to sports cards.

That term was used on net54 years ago..

[Robbie]

When I think back on the waterfront cards I let get away over the years, all I can say is...

I coulda' had class. I coulda' been a contender. I could've been somebody... instead of a bum, which is what I am – let's face it.

[Tabe]

The folks who bought that card then sold it for a profit didn't suffer any loss from the trim job.

When prices for doctored cards with high grades are increasing, the people who bought and sold them, generally, are not suffering financial loss. The full impact of the fraud won't be felt unless/until the value of the doctored/overgraded cards collapse.

A fair point. Is victimless fraud still fraud? I would say yes.

At the very least, the current owner is a victim even if he doesn't consider himself such.

[Touch'EmAll]

Pardon me, but PSA - what does the "P" stand for ?

[Republicaninmass]

Preferential

[JollyElm]

Pardon me, but PSA - what does the "P" stand for ?

Phraudulent.

[the 'stache]

Before I go throw up, anybody want to end this craziness, and just give us a working definition of "waterfront"? I've been here a while, and have never heard of the term, either. And a quick search of the term on Google and our forum yields several results, but no definition. Or, is this an ongoing inside joke, like Snipe hunting? :p

It seems, on first glance, to refer to ultra in demand cards in highest condition. That would make sense, as oceanfront property is typically the creme de la creme. Just looking back at the last 50 some years, this would include the Joe Namath '65 Topps rookie, a '79 Wayne Gretzky rookie (the Canadian Oh-Pee-Chee issue), the '86 Fleer Michael Jordan, whatever the most in demand rookie card for Tom Brady would be-maybe the 2000 Playoff Contenders with the on card certified auto. That's one I saw a lot when I started prospecting. What else? The Jeter '93 Upper Deck SP foil card in prime condition goes for a ridiculous amount. I expect the 2009 Mike Trout Bowman Chrome certified auto moves into that category, eventually. I feel like such an idiot having sold mine, but medical bills don't allow one to be sentimental. Going back a bit further, the '52 Topps Mantle and Mays obviously. '54 Topps rookie for Aaron, '55 for Clemente. The '48 Leaf Jackie Robinson rookie. '51 Parkhurst Gordie Howe, whatever Bobby Orr's rookie might be. '58 Topps Jim Brown, '57 Topps Starr and Unitas.

What else?

If we go back to the era(s) we all love and collect, we're looking at the E90-1 American Caramel Shoeless Joe Jackson, the Wagner T206, the '33 Goudey Lajoie, the '39 Play Ball Ted Williams. Ruth's rookie (I forget, the '16 Famous & Barr?), various Cobb T206 cards, portraits as well as on/off shoulder varieties, the Walter Johnson portrait, '35 National Chicle Nagurski, Ruth and Gehrig Goudey cards, the Cracker Jack issues of Christy Matthewson, Johnson, Jackson-especially the '14 releases which are ultra condition sensitive.

Somebody just clarify for us, please.

[the 'stache]

Pardon me, but PSA - what does the "P" stand for ?

Professional Sports Authenticator.

[egbeachley]

You are not the only one who hasn’t heard the term waterfront. But then again I d only been collecting for 1/2 my life and on this Board for over 10 years.

It may have to do with soaking a card. But context seems off. Certainly not a commonly used term.

[drcy]

Just remember that for some waterfront = van down by the river

[1952boyntoncollector]

Before I go throw up, anybody want to end this craziness, and just give us a working definition of "waterfront"? I've been here a while, and have never heard of the term, either. And a quick search of the term on Google and our forum yields several results, but no definition. Or, is this an ongoing inside joke, like Snipe hunting? :p

.

What else?


Somebody just clarify for us, please.

I would think there are waterfront and there are waterfront. The ruth rookie etc is not something most of the community can afford or even afford to invest in but i i think a 10k card many more can, i would define a waterfront card as a card many people have had in their collection or a chance to get at one time or another....i know i never had a chance to get an T206 wagner but i did on some goudey ruth's etc.

.this was a quote i had about the green cobb being a waterfront card..



Default PWCC green cobb psa 5.5 going through the roof
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1909-11-T206...4AAOSw9mFWMm5z

bidding over $14,000 which has to be way over SMR... when I had two PSA 4s nicely centered Green cobbs..all I would hear about is SMR this and SMR that....

the waterfront properties really taking off...!

[Mark17]

A fair point. Is victimless fraud still fraud? I would say yes.

At the very least, the current owner is a victim even if he doesn't consider himself such.

If someone buys a doctored card as an investment, doesn't know it is doctored, and sells it for a tidy profit, he/she is not a victim. If the person who buys it is happy with the card and also sells it for a profit, they are not a victim. There is definitely potential for some future owner of the card to become a victim, but that won't occur unless and until the doctoring of that card (asset) causes its market value to drop.

If I buy a nice looking T205 that looks a little narrow and may be trimmed, but I am happy with the card at the price I pay for it, I am also not a victim. This has, in fact, happened to me fairly recently.

The victimization of America................ To be a victim one must actually have something negative happen to them.

[egbeachley]

If someone buys a doctored card as an investment, doesn't know it is doctored, and sells it for a tidy profit, he/she is not a victim. If the person who buys it is happy with the card and also sells it for a profit, they are not a victim. There is definitely potential for some future owner of the card to become a victim, but that won't occur unless and until the doctoring of that card (asset) causes its market value to drop.

If I buy a nice looking T205 that looks a little narrow and may be trimmed, but I am happy with the card at the price I pay for it, I am also not a victim. This has, in fact, happened to me fairly recently.

The victimization of America................ To be a victim one must actually have something negative happen to them.

Yet even in this example the profit made is almost certainly going to be less than what it would have been without the fraud being exposed.

[Mark17]

Yet even in this example the profit made is almost certainly going to be less than what it would have been without the fraud being exposed.

I'll bet in the vast majority of cases, the fraud has not been exposed to the people buying these cards.

[iowadoc77]

Just remember that for some waterfront = van down by the river

You’re going to be eating a steady diet of government cheese and living in a VAN DOWN BY THE RIVER!!!

[bnorth]

Just remember that for some waterfront = van down by the river

That is hilarious.:D

You’re going to be eating a steady diet of government cheese and living in a VAN DOWN BY THE RIVER!!!

Government cheese used to be good, now it is that horrible fake stuff.:(

[Leon]

One time I actually bought imitation fake cheese. Just don't do it. :eek: All I know is; it was a yellowish substance.

That is hilarious.:D

Government cheese used to be good, now it is that horrible fake stuff.:(

[egbeachley]

I'll bet in the vast majority of cases, the fraud has not been exposed to the people buying these cards.

True, but a drop in overall pricing would likely affect comparable sales.

[steve B]

If someone buys a doctored card as an investment, doesn't know it is doctored, and sells it for a tidy profit, he/she is not a victim. If the person who buys it is happy with the card and also sells it for a profit, they are not a victim. There is definitely potential for some future owner of the card to become a victim, but that won't occur unless and until the doctoring of that card (asset) causes its market value to drop.

If I buy a nice looking T205 that looks a little narrow and may be trimmed, but I am happy with the card at the price I pay for it, I am also not a victim. This has, in fact, happened to me fairly recently.

The victimization of America................ To be a victim one must actually have something negative happen to them.

To me this is a ridiculous way of looking at it.
As long as everyone profits off something that isn't as it's claimed, it's ok?

So by extension if I get a counterfeit 20, and pass it along that's ok too.
If I paint some rocks with gold paint, and say they're gold nuggets it's fine as long as the buyer can find another sucker?

Rubbish!

[Stampsfan]

The folks who bought that card then sold it for a profit didn't suffer any loss from the trim job.

How can you know that they didn't lose out on more profit? Every educated collector knows the "trim" story.

Just because it was sold for a profit doesn't mean they "didn't suffer any loss from the trim job".

[Stampsfan]

One time I actually bought imitation fake cheese. Just don't do it. :eek: All I know is; it was a yellowish substance.

Does "imitation fake cheese" mean it's actually real cheese?

[Baseball Bob]

Fascinating! Back in 2015, this guy tossed a bunch of 1958 Topps out on eBay that were freshly PSA graded and all were 8 or better. Close inspection of the cards revealed that 90% of them had flaws that would in my humble opinon have made them at best 7s or even lower. I wrote they guy a note and told him I thought he was peddling a bunch of PSA overgrades and he sent me back a berating note.
It all makes so much more sense now......!!

[BeanTown]

Just looked at his current eBay store. Has 100 percent feedback and many high end PSA graded items.


https://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEFSXS%3AMESOI&_ssn=manontherock&_sop=16

[bnorth]

Just looked at his current eBay store. Has 100 percent feedback and many high end PSA graded items.


https://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEFSXS%3AMESOI&_ssn=manontherock&_sop=16

eBay feedback means absolutely nothing.

[BeanTown]

eBay feedback means absolutely nothing.

Agreed +1

[CMIZ5290]

I would think there are waterfront and there are waterfront. The ruth rookie etc is not something most of the community can afford or even afford to invest in but i i think a 10k card many more can, i would define a waterfront card as a card many people have had in their collection or a chance to get at one time or another....i know i never had a chance to get an T206 wagner but i did on some goudey ruth's etc.

.this was a quote i had about the green cobb being a waterfront card..



Default PWCC green cobb psa 5.5 going through the roof
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1909-11-T206...4AAOSw9mFWMm5z

bidding over $14,000 which has to be way over SMR... when I had two PSA 4s nicely centered Green cobbs..all I would hear about is SMR this and SMR that....

the waterfront properties really taking off...!

Always got an answer don't you?
...

[Johnny630]

Did anyone see this new one Discovered On Blowout
BODA has done amazing forensics work

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1349101

Will REA have to Buy Back and Sue PSA for Damages or will Newport Beach Buy Back? Or Make The Consignor Buy it Back

PSA is TEFLON WATCH THEM GET AWAY LAUGHING ALL THE WAY TO THE BANK

[Mark17]

To me this is a ridiculous way of looking at it.
As long as everyone profits off something that isn't as it's claimed, it's ok?

So by extension if I get a counterfeit 20, and pass it along that's ok too.
If I paint some rocks with gold paint, and say they're gold nuggets it's fine as long as the buyer can find another sucker?

Rubbish!

No, fraud isn't okay. I didn't say it was (obviously.)

[Fuddjcal]

Did anyone see this new one Discovered On Blowout
BODA has done amazing forensics work

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1349101

Will REA have to Buy Back and Sue PSA for Damages or will Newport Beach Buy Back? Or Make The Consignor Buy it Back

PSA is TEFLON WATCH THEM GET AWAY LAUGHING ALL THE WAY TO THE BANK

Home on the waterfront:D:D:D:D .

There are no damages so you can't add it to the billion dollar fraud, sorry. Doesn't count. No one has to pay.

It looks like our very own Desert Ice Sports is being looked into next as the possible addition to the "PSA Cavalcade of Stars". Something fishy there, they say?

Attention" ALL LEGAL morons, you know who you are...Please keep submitting cards and waiting 5 months for it to pop like an imbecile so we can keep this fine company in business. They react so well to the collector in everything they do to stop fraud. Newsflash: They are corrupt to the core. It is obvious to anyone with a sliver of a brain, like myself:). har har harde har har. The joke is on ALL OF US.:D:D

Another great job by BODA!

[steve B]

No, fraud isn't okay. I didn't say it was (obviously.)

Really?

You in essence said that as long as the buyer profited it wasn't a problem.

[samosa4u]

Did anyone see this new one Discovered On Blowout
BODA has done amazing forensics work

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1349101

Will REA have to Buy Back and Sue PSA for Damages or will Newport Beach Buy Back? Or Make The Consignor Buy it Back

PSA is TEFLON WATCH THEM GET AWAY LAUGHING ALL THE WAY TO THE BANK

LOL! People usually pay no attention to me, but it looks like BODA did read my earlier posts! They wrote the following:

Did You Win This $27,600 "Waterfront" Satchel Paige Card in REA's December Auction?

Oh no, not a Waterfront card!

Too funny! And yes, that Satchel Paige SP RC definitely is a waterfront card! Nice catch, guys! :)

[iowadoc77]

Home on the waterfront:D:D:D:D .

There are no damages so you can't add it to the billion dollar fraud, sorry. Doesn't count. No one has to pay.

It looks like our very own Desert Ice Sports is being looked into next as the possible addition to the "PSA Cavalcade of Stars". Something fishy there, they say?

Attention" ALL LEGAL morons, you know who you are...Please keep submitting cards and waiting 5 months for it to pop like an imbecile so we can keep this fine company in business. They react so well to the collector in everything they do to stop fraud. Newsflash: They are corrupt to the core. It is obvious to anyone with a sliver of a brain, like myself:). har har harde har har. The joke is on ALL OF US.:D:D

Another great job by BODA!


Still trying to figure out from this post if I am a legal or illegal moron. By most accounts, I am at least some type of moron

[Rhotchkiss]

Still trying to figure out from this post if I am a legal or illegal moron. By most accounts, I am at least some type of moron

Eric, all Hawkeyes are illegal morons.

Love,

Bucky Badger (who got outscored 20-2 in the last 8 minutes the other night to lose to the Hawkeyes - fire Greg Gard!)

[1952boyntoncollector]

Did anyone see this new one Discovered On Blowout
BODA has done amazing forensics work

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1349101

Will REA have to Buy Back and Sue PSA for Damages or will Newport Beach Buy Back? Or Make The Consignor Buy it Back

PSA is TEFLON WATCH THEM GET AWAY LAUGHING ALL THE WAY TO THE BANK

the term waterfront is used and also on comments in that forum....

[Exhibitman]

One time I actually bought imitation fake cheese. Just don't do it. :eek: All I know is; it was a yellowish substance.

Oh man, does that bring up a memory. I went to my in-laws' house once just when my wife and I were dating and her grandmother put out some cheese. I took a chunk of what I thought was cheddar, popped it in my mouth, and nearly barfed. It was that processed fake crap. Little known fact: when you bite into it you hear a squeak.

[iowadoc77]

Eric, all Hawkeyes are illegal morons.

Love,

Bucky Badger (who got outscored 20-2 in the last 8 minutes the other night to lose to the Hawkeyes - fire Greg Gard!)

We don’t need no stinking Badgers!

Think that turned out well for the good guys!

[Mark17]

Really?

You in essence said that as long as the buyer profited it wasn't a problem.

I said if a buyer bought a card as an investment (i.e. to make a profit) and he did make a profit, then he was not a "victim" as I would define the word.

Not interested in debating the definition of "victim" with you.

[tschock]

Oh man, does that bring up a memory. I went to my in-laws' house once just when my wife and I were dating and her grandmother put out some cheese. I took a chunk of what I thought was cheddar, popped it in my mouth, and nearly barfed. It was that processed fake crap. Little known fact: when you bite into it you hear a squeak.

Are you implying that mice don't eat that 'cheese' but the 'cheese' eat the mice?

[MULLINS5]

PSA is a fraud who has "graded" over a billion dollars of cards.

Therefore, it's a billion dollar fraud.

[boysblue]

The fellas over on Blow Out should be commended for uncovering this stuff. I cannot imagine the time and diligence required, so congrats to them.

[Republicaninmass]

PSA is a fraud who has "graded" over a billion dollars of cards.

Therefore, it's a billion dollar fraud.


Lol, ticker JUST shy of 79 million!


Stil a ways to go

[Bicem]

Lol, ticker JUST shy of 79 million!


Stil a ways to go

That's number of slabs, not $ value.

[Republicaninmass]

That's number of slabs, not $ value.At a value of $12.50 each OMG it's a billion

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[Johnny630]

PSA Blowing Out Numbers


From CU's quarterly report.

Revenues from our trading cards / autographs business continued to show consistent growth. Those revenues increased by 35% in this year’s second quarter and represented record second quarter revenues for that business. Moreover, our card and autographs business has achieved quarter-over-quarter revenue growth in 37 of the last 38 quarters.

[Johnny630]

CLCT IS UP over 11% today wow !!!!!

This is a major sell sell sell

[chalupacollects]

One cause may be that since they announced a price increase for 2020 that people dropped more subs in to beat the increase before end of 2019???