View Full Version : Opinions on PSA 9 Cobb
iowadoc77
12-21-2019, 06:36 AM
From Joe O’s twitter page.
Re holder of PSA 9 Cobb
Opinions?
https://mobile.twitter.com/joeorlandopsa/status/1208076057405820928
ullmandds
12-21-2019, 06:42 AM
I dont like the lower rt corner...but who am I?
chalupacollects
12-21-2019, 06:43 AM
Not a 9 with that mark on the upper left....also might be something in the sky by the bat? not sure if that is on all copies...
Why the re-holder?
Pete Ullman???
😁
I dont like the lower rt corner...but who am I?
ullmandds
12-21-2019, 07:01 AM
Pete Ullman???
😁
shhhhhhhhhh!
Aquarian Sports Cards
12-21-2019, 07:17 AM
floats in the holder on sides. Not conclusive but I wonder about top to bottom especially.
ullmandds
12-21-2019, 07:18 AM
At this point in time...any 100 year old card in an 8,9 or 10 holder is guilty until proven innocent...imo.
iowadoc77
12-21-2019, 07:25 AM
The print mark first caught my eye but also how? Just how in the heck did that card survive and look like that still today?
Conservation maybe? Just a thought.
bigfish
12-21-2019, 08:10 AM
Horrifying top and bottom edge!
Rhotchkiss
12-21-2019, 08:11 AM
floats in the holder on sides. Not conclusive but I wonder about top to bottom especially.
+1 card looks a little short to me, especially the top border; you see that OC top bottom in piedmont 150 but not so much in Sweet Caps. At best there is a slight diamond cut. Bottom line, whoever wins this at auction is buying the flip, not the card.
MVSNYC
12-21-2019, 08:11 AM
I always look at two things first with high grade...
1. Does it strike me as “short” compared to other cards in the same set? YES.
2. Is the bottom edge parallel with the top edge? NO. Even in the case of diamond cuts, legit cards have parallel edges. Not the case here, unfortunately.
So, I’d personally avoid it.
I always look at two things first with high grade...
1. Does it strike me as “short” compared to other cards in the same set? YES.
2. Is the bottom edge parallel with the top edge? NO.
So, I’d personally avoid it.
I am doing the exact same critiquing nowadays. No short cards or ones that just don't look right. And please, let me have big borders. This is just about a perfect card for me.....the slab is somewhat meaningless.
http://luckeycards.com/bres.jpg
Rhotchkiss
12-21-2019, 08:19 AM
Meanwhile, I wonder who is the owner that wanted it reholdered and why did they want it reholdered?
Aquarian Sports Cards
12-21-2019, 08:27 AM
It also breaks my heart if that card is altered. Pre-grading days that card would've been the find of a lifetime even before it was "perfected" now it's quite possibly destroyed.
iowadoc77
12-21-2019, 08:30 AM
Meanwhile, I wonder who is the owner that wanted it reholdered and why did they want it reholdered?
Good point. Could have been in a really old holder or maybe looking to sell
But lots of questions on this one.
iowadoc77
12-21-2019, 08:32 AM
It also breaks my heart if that card is altered. Pre-grading days that card would've been the find of a lifetime even before it was "perfected" now it's quite possibly destroyed.
So true. Very sad
iowadoc77
12-21-2019, 08:47 AM
Apparently I can’t read. Says it is headed to auction soon. Should be interesting. Will go for a ton!
swarmee
12-21-2019, 09:38 AM
Well, it was graded a very long time ago with a "02" at the beginning of the cert number. So if it was trimmed, it was done way back in the early days.
Well, it was graded a very long time ago with a "02" at the beginning of the cert number. So if it was trimmed, it was done way back in the early days.
Daniel Desmond (DP in the article) did a long interview with VCBC in 1996. He had altered thousands at that time and is still doing it today. Time means nothing.
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=270622
.
bnorth
12-21-2019, 10:24 AM
Daniel Desmond (DP in the article) did a long interview with VCBC in 1996. He had altered thousands at that time and is still doing it today. Time means nothing.
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=270622
.
When I got into collecting in the 80's several old time dealers said they trimmed cards back in the 70's all the time. Nobody seemed to care because they were old cards and it made them look better.
benjulmag
12-21-2019, 10:29 AM
At this point in time...any 100 year old card in an 8,9 or 10 holder is guilty until proven innocent...imo.
My choice for post of the year.
BeanTown
12-21-2019, 10:37 AM
My choice for post of the year.
Completely agree +1
I enjoy buying rare cards with very low pop as the condition does not matter as much. Plus postcards with the stamp on the back. Never got involved in the registry and never will.
Fuddjcal
12-21-2019, 10:37 AM
The print mark first caught my eye but also how? Just how in the heck did that card survive and look like that still today?
Conservation maybe? Just a thought.
Gee do ya think? Knowing what we all know, there is ZERO chance that card has not been soaked in a chemical bath and then trimmed. Cards from that era simply never looked like that in my lifetime.
Fuddjcal
12-21-2019, 10:38 AM
Apparently I can’t read. Says it is headed to auction soon. Should be interesting. Will go for a ton!
great, then you can add it to the running total as the scam gets up closer to a billion.
Apparently I can’t read. Says it is headed to auction soon. Should be interesting. Will go for a ton!
If it goes for a ton, then the buyer better really like the label/flip. That's in a PSA holder? Kinda surprised to see that....
perezfan
12-21-2019, 12:19 PM
If it goes for a ton, then the buyer better really like the label/flip. That's in a PSA holder? Kinda surprised to see that....
What's remotely surprising about it?
It simply accompanies tens of thousands of other altered cards just like it (in numbered PSA slabs). I'd be way more surprised if they had correctly labeled it for the "A" it is.
ejharrington
12-21-2019, 01:07 PM
I don’t like the bottom edge. Looks like bat ears. I would definitely ask for measurements if I were a potential buyer.
iowadoc77
12-21-2019, 01:20 PM
I started the post as sort of a rhetorical question
I think we can mostly agree it doesn’t look great for the past history of this card.
But we all know there are plenty of people happy to buy the flip. And someone will with this one. For a ton of cash. I apologize if I am wrong but pretty sure I am not on this one.
Will be an interesting auction to follow when it comes up.
I think the beauty of old cards is in them looking believable and looking old. This card is beautiful but artificially so I think. So don’t love it. Would feel much better about a nice well centered 3 with wear on the corners.
perezfan
12-21-2019, 01:23 PM
I started the post as sort of a rhetorical question
I think we can mostly agree it doesn’t look great for the past history of this card.
But we all know there are plenty of people happy to buy the flip. And someone will with this one. For a ton of cash. I apologize if I am wrong but pretty sure I am not on this one.
Will be an interesting auction to follow when it comes up.
I think the beauty of old cards is in them looking believable and looking old. This card is beautiful but artificially so I think. So don’t love it. Would feel much better about a nice well centered 3 with wear on the corners.
Great observations and completely agree. A large part of the charm is the natural wear a card endures over the past 110 years. Razor sharp corners and edges only make it look suspect.
insidethewrapper
12-21-2019, 01:33 PM
How can a card come off the printing press, be cut, be put into a cigarette pack at the factory 110 years ago, it's then removed from the pack and touched etc. and look like that ? We all know it's impossible. Sad money is made and spent after altered cards like this.
iowadoc77
12-21-2019, 02:05 PM
How can a card come off the printing press, be cut, be put into a cigarette pack at the factory 110 years ago, it's then removed from the pack and touched etc. and look like that ? We all know it's impossible. Sad money is made and spent after altered cards like this.
You nailed it. Well said
My 100 year old cards are graded PSA 1 through 3 mostly. I've always had doubts about any card PSA-1950 that grades a 7 or higher.
ullmandds
12-21-2019, 02:31 PM
I am doing the exact same critiquing nowadays. No short cards or ones that just don't look right. And please, let me have big borders. This is just about a perfect card for me.....the slab is somewhat meaningless.
http://luckeycards.com/bres.jpg
Off centered top to bottom to the point you can see the name on the top... Atrocious! Who could love a card like that?
iwantitiwinit
12-21-2019, 02:35 PM
At this point in time...any 100 year old card in an 8,9 or 10 holder is guilty until proven innocent...imo.
Agree, and I don't like that top border.
aconte
12-21-2019, 02:48 PM
At this point in time...any 100 year old card in an 8,9 or 10 holder is guilty until proven innocent...imo.
Another vote for post of the year!
What's remotely surprising about it?
It simply accompanies tens of thousands of other altered cards just like it (in numbered PSA slabs). I'd be way more surprised if they had correctly labeled it for the "A" it is.
Yeah, I know, what should surprise me about that.... I would have figured that in light of what's going on these days, SCRUTINY would be a key word for PSA and Joe. Apparently scrutiny is something subjective, like grading.
iowadoc77
12-22-2019, 08:12 AM
Yeah, I know, what should surprise me about that.... I would have figured that in light of what's going on these days, SCRUTINY would be a key word for PSA and Joe. Apparently scrutiny is something subjective, like grading.
But cashing in is not subjective. And they continue to cash in.
What is the over/under on Cobby? 100k? 250k? 500k? 750K+ It will go for huge bucks.
LincolnVT
12-24-2019, 01:56 PM
Very few mint Cobbs out there from his playing years! A lot I would think.
What is the over/under on Cobby? 100k? 250k? 500k? 750K+ It will go for huge bucks.
RedsFan1941
12-24-2019, 02:16 PM
lol. never misses an opportunity.
iowadoc77
12-24-2019, 02:54 PM
lol. never misses an opportunity.
Heeheehee
My Christmas wish:
All bidders for that Cobb become a bit more sophisticated in their bidding and "just say NO" to BS grading and unrealistic subjectivity and send a message to the ass-clowns that fill our hobby with bullshit.
Ok, I'm also a realist, therefore that adage of "wish in one hand, shit in the other and see which fills up faster" will probably apply because there are enough ignoramus's out there willing to buy a number on a label.
At least the true hobbyists will know it's just another Gretzky Wagner.... Leon, my hope is < $100K, but there's enough knuckle heads that will drive it past $250K.
To end this on a positive note: Season's greetings to all and be safe for the holidays.
ullmandds
12-24-2019, 06:52 PM
Id say over 250k
iowadoc77
12-24-2019, 07:00 PM
Id say over 250k
Seems very likely
RedsFan1941
12-24-2019, 08:47 PM
at least $19,200
LincolnVT
12-24-2019, 09:11 PM
Lol, never misses an opportunity.
at least $19,200
Shoeless Moe
12-24-2019, 09:28 PM
better questions are....
if it's sold at Heritage how high will their in-house bids be on it, and when they win it when will they re-auction it at Heritage in 1 year? 2 years? 4 years?
if it's sold at Lelands what will the shipping charge be?
if it's sold at Hunts will they show a pix of the back?
if it's sold at Crazy Uncle will they still be in business when the auction ends and how many emails will it take by the winner to them to get it shipped?
ullmandds
12-24-2019, 09:37 PM
better questions are....
If it's sold at heritage how high will their in-house bids be on it, and when they win it when will they re-auction it at heritage in 1 year? 2 years? 4 years?
If it's sold at lelands what will the shipping charge be?
If it's sold at hunts will they show a pix of the back?
If it's sold at crazy uncle will they still be in business when the auction ends and how many emails will it take by the winner to them to get it shipped?
hahahahahaha!!!!!!
ullmandds
12-24-2019, 09:38 PM
at least $19,200
hahahahahaha
pokerplyr80
12-25-2019, 12:50 AM
.
Paul S
12-26-2019, 11:24 AM
better questions are....
if it's sold at Heritage how high will their in-house bids be on it, and when they win it when will they re-auction it at Heritage in 1 year? 2 years? 4 years?
if it's sold at Lelands what will the shipping charge be?
if it's sold at Hunts will they show a pix of the back?
if it's sold at Crazy Uncle will they still be in business when the auction ends and how many emails will it take by the winner to them to get it shipped?
Happy Holidays, Baby.
cammb
12-27-2019, 11:13 AM
How can a card come off the printing press, be cut, be put into a cigarette pack at the factory 110 years ago, it's then removed from the pack and touched etc. and look like that ? We all know it's impossible. Sad money is made and spent after altered cards like this.
It's been in a holder for the last 109 years.
iowadoc77
12-27-2019, 01:46 PM
Yikes that card
Yes. But if you don’t know what you are looking for and you see that number...
Yes. But if you don’t know what you are looking for and you see that number...
What that statement says to me is that there are people that collect cards that have no clue what they're getting, yet they'll be willing to spend a ton of cash on it. I suppose someone that is willing to spend a ton of cash on stuff they really don't understand can still be considered a "hobbyist". Right?
What if it is somehow proven the card was trimmed? What's the price difference between a PSA9 Cobb and one that is in an AUTH holder? Oh yeah, PSA would pay the difference with their guarantee.... right.... They could just say, "hey, it's our opinion it is not altered" and that would be that... TPGs have it made... what will really be a shocker (not) is if in the future it is revealed/proven that major TPGs were in cahoots with sellers and AHs in an effort to drive up prices.
iowadoc77
12-27-2019, 08:41 PM
What that statement says to me is that there are people that collect cards that have no clue what they're getting, yet they'll be willing to spend a ton of cash on it. I suppose someone that is willing to spend a ton of cash on stuff they really don't understand can still be considered a "hobbyist". Right?
What if it is somehow proven the card was trimmed? What's the price difference between a PSA9 Cobb and one that is in an AUTH holder? Oh yeah, PSA would pay the difference with their guarantee.... right.... They could just say, "hey, it's our opinion it is not altered" and that would be that... TPGs have it made... what will really be a shocker (not) is if in the future it is revealed/proven that major TPGs were in cahoots with sellers and AHs in an effort to drive up prices.
Exactly right. Lots of people who have no idea about what they are buying and are paying loads of money for a number (an opinion). And the ONLY reason that card will sell for what it might is that number. Crazy.
iowadoc77
01-09-2020, 01:47 PM
Looks like Heritage will be auctioning it off for those keeping track at home.
hcv123
01-09-2020, 04:09 PM
better questions are....
if it's sold at Heritage how high will their in-house bids be on it, and when they win it when will they re-auction it at Heritage in 1 year? 2 years? 4 years?
if it's sold at Lelands what will the shipping charge be?
if it's sold at Hunts will they show a pix of the back?
if it's sold at Crazy Uncle will they still be in business when the auction ends and how many emails will it take by the winner to them to get it shipped?
:D That's awesome!! Don't forget:
If it's sold at REA will all the people who criticized the card rescind their opinion and have confidence it's legit?
anyone else.....?
hcv123
01-09-2020, 04:09 PM
duplicate post
111gecko
01-09-2020, 04:10 PM
floats in the holder on sides. Not conclusive but I wonder about top to bottom especially.
It's a "slim fit" Cobb..
Rhotchkiss
01-09-2020, 06:04 PM
I once purchased (and owned) the card pictured below. Once in hand, I became concerned it was “short.” I tried to cross it over to SGC, and I requested a minimum grade of 6, because I preferred the card stay in a BVG 7.5 flip to an SGC A flip. SGC did not cross it, claiming it did not achieve minimum grade. My skepticism increased (this is a good looking card).
I then took it to the philly show and showed it to several experts-friends and auction houses. The unanimous consensus was that the card “had to remain in the BVG flip”. Three strikes confirmed: the card was short (and likely so from trimming). I ended up strongly requesting that the asshole who sold me the card (I am convinced he knew it was short) buy it back from me for $1000 less than I paid (yes, I lost a grand), and he did. Good riddance.
This PSA 9 Cobb reminds me of my old, short BVG Cobb (mine was short on bottom; the PSA 9 looks short on top and maybe a bit on bottom). The main difference is that mine resided, and had to remain, in a BVG flip, a less desirable flip, and the current Cobb 9 was lucky enough to get into a PSA flip; (for some reason) the most desirable flip. If this PSA 9 Cobb sat in a BVG 9 flip, it would sell for substantially less and it would need to remain in the BVG flip if it wanted a number grade.
Few takeaways, and one thought: first, I have never bought another card from that dealer and never will. Second, I have since never purchased another card in a BVG flip that is older than 2000, and the ones newer than 2000 I have bought are cards my kids wanted. Third, I am very sensitive to cards that are short, and this PSA 9 looks short (I doubt BVG would cross it :)).
Finally, ethically, I think Heritage is perfectly fine to auction the card and to tout it as a PSA 9- indeed, that’s exactly what it is. Unless Heritage has proof that it is short/altered, I believe they are ethically ok to auction what is consigned to them, and to describe it as what it is - a PSA 9 Cobb. That said, I would take care in the description bc they should not make reps or opinions (like PWCC) beyond what PSA has determined. I think it’s best if they simply stated something like “PSA 9 Cobb bat off. Enough said”
LincolnVT
01-09-2020, 06:42 PM
I would argue that SGC is the most desirable holder...especially in light of all of the controversy. Plus, I love the look of most all cards with the black background. No opinion on the Cobb other than I think it will likely bring a pile.
I would argue that SGC is the most desirable holder...especially in light of all of the controversy. Plus, I love the look of most all cards with the black background. No opinion on the Cobb other than I think it will likely bring a pile.
Agree at this time. .