Auction House thievery Lelands style

[CuriousGeorge]

So this past week Lelands had an auction closing and I won one card for a total of $60K. After receiving the invoice which included $623.59 for shipping and insurance, I contacted them to question it since I has simultaneously received invoices from Heritage and REA with higher value for much less shipping costs.

A woman named Jillian Clinedinst eventually responded to tell me that after looking at the invoice "it looks like they gave (me) a break. $606.59 alone is just for insurance given the total of your invoice (1% of the total is insurance) so they really only charged (me) $17 to ship." She proceeded to tell me "I can have the insurance removed if it is a problem. I just need you to respond saying that provided the material is well packed, Lelands will not be held responsible for any damages or losses during shipping."

I then asked her if her company was purchasing specific insurance with Fedex for this particular package or just using their general liability policy. No response. I asked again and she eventually went through all of the math with Fedex showing their insurance rates and how they got to $623.59 shipping. She specifically then said "we purchase insurance for each individual package we ship through Fedex based on the value of the shipment." And that "We purchase insurance for each individual package we ship through Fedex." She also reminded me that if I sent an email like she had suggested previously, that all of the shipping charges would be removed but they would take no responsibility.

Next I got another email from her. Because I was such a "good client with (them) she had reached out to her President on my behalf. He just got back to her and approved a break on my insurance loweing it to $200. He said in the event of anything happening we will absorb the remaining insurance."

I paid the bill and the card came today. I call Fedex and no insurance was ever bought for the package. I email Jillian and she doesn't answer. I email again and now receive a call from her "because she's so busy with invoices it's easier this way." She tells me they didn't buy insurance on my package because I didn't want to pay the full amount.

It's pretty clear to me this company is just stealing money from everyone under the auspices of paying for insurance on each package. In this case it was only $600+ but extrapolating it out over many auctions and many years it sure adds up. The bigger question for me is if they find the need to be stealing money from us this way when it is so obvious to see, what are they doing to us when we're bidding and in their T&C allowed to bid on any lots? Does someone perhaps have that answer?

PS - I just saw Lelands is an advertiser here so sorry Leon. But with all the shenanigans going on in this industry it doesn't seem right to let this pass as decent.

[BruceinGa]

I would ask for the $200 to be refunded.:(

[thecomebacker]

I’ve never heard of $600 for shipping unless your card is a PSA 9 or 10 1952 mantle and they are delivering it with an armored truck. Thanks for the head-ups.

[hcv123]

That said, I was advised by an old friend and store owner that people often "bid against themselves". As a result of what my friend shared, I chose not to bid in their auctions for years. Recently I have, but am always wary. Never thought to question the insurance - that's pretty slimy!

[Fred]

If they don't purchase any insurance at all, then they would have to self-insure the packages. There's probably a very good chance a Fed-ex package is going to be delivered so perhaps they feel they'll bite the bullet if they have to.

As long as they cover the loss, then I guess they're doing the right thing in that respect.

Is it ethical? It's probably not that it's unethical more than it is a perception issue. If they lose you as a bidder, then my guess is they'll have paid the price.

Why not ask to speak with Josh Evans, I'm sure he'd take your call.

[calvindog]

Josh is awesome on the phone, I agree ❤️

[perezfan]

I suppose you could have driven to New Jersey, picked up the card yourself, and saved a bunch of money on Shipping/Insurance. Or you could've flown to NJ to pick it up, probably at about a "break-even" rate.

Seriously, these exorbitant shipping/insurance charges are something I've always been suspicious of... not necessarily with Lelands per se, but across all auction houses (REA excluded). At least it sounds like your card arrived safely and undamaged, which is lots better than the alternative.

[JeremyW]

I recently purchased a baseball for $1,000 through an auction house & ended up paying 1,334.00 for the ball all in. I figured the premium & S&H, but when does it not make sense to sell at an auction house?

[Rhotchkiss]

There are usually at least two sides to every story, but based solely on your side, it appears Leland’s flat out stole $200 from you; charging you for insurance they never procured. That’s no bueno. And, just stupid business. You buy a $60k card, likely pay immediately, and they do this? That’s what I call penny wise, pound foolish. I expect they lost you as a customer. Unfortunate all around.

Meanwhile, REA sent me a shipping confirmation the day after the auction ended, the cards came the next day, and If I paid shipping and/or insurance, it was peanuts. REA is a class act, they know how to do things, and they are pound wise.

[calvindog]

There are usually at least two sides to every story, but based solely on your side, it appears Leland’s flat out stole $200 from you; charging you for insurance they never procured. That’s no bueno. And, just stupid business. You buy a $60k card, likely pay immediately, and they do this? That’s what I call penny wise, pound foolish. I expect they lost you as a customer. Unfortunate all around.

Meanwhile, REA sent me a shipping confirmation the day after the auction ended, the cards came the next day, and If I paid shipping and/or insurance, it was peanuts. REA is a class act, they know how to do things, and they are pound wise.

REA is by far my favorite auction house. Brian is smart, not a pig and his is the only auction house which I don’t need to call to ask where my cards are. He takes a loss on shipping but he understands the value in keeping the customer happy. It shouldn’t be so difficult to not use shipping and insurance as a profit center but this is our hobby. In addition he doesn’t bid on his own lots and doesn’t have wildly misleading scans, both of which Heritage is guilty of and is unwilling to change.

[painthistorian]

Hi Steve- I do agree with you now although Lelands has always treated me fairly.

[pokerplyr80]

8.25% of 60k is about 5k, not 600. Sounds like they knew what they were doing. I would be interested to hear their side though.

[calvindog]

Fed Ex does not insure collectibles except up to a small amount. They certainly do not cover a 60K card. Most auction houses either self-insure or have a third party policy.

[robertsmithnocure]

I do not even think that Fedex will insure collectibles. I bet that most collectible companies have a private blanket policy to cover all of their shipments. I am not sure if this is in the the 1% price range or not.

My guess is that Leland’s charges the 1% to either cover the cost of their private insurance or else they are just self insuring and figure that they will take the risk for 1%.

Either way, expensive shipping charges should be disclosed up front so that a bidder can take them into consideration when bidding.

*I did not see Jeffrey’s post. Looks like he beat me to it.

[CuriousGeorge]

First, it wasn’t tax. It was clearly shipping and insurance and I have many emails to attest to that. What it was is an outright money grab. I suspect they use their own insurance or self insure every package and then use FedEx rates to charge the clients. Whether it’s right, wrong, unethical or not is everyone’s decision to make. Where it becomes unquestionably unethical is when I ask them specifically if they are buying insurance from FedEx specifically for every package and they tell me they are. And then they don’t. That’s outright dishonest and thievery.

My assumption is they have stolen millions of dollars over the years playing this game and getting away with it. If someone complains they cut the fee so they make less. But still outright dishonesty.

So where does it end in this industry? PSA, PWCC, Moser, shilling at AH’s and now this along with all the other characters doing exactly what the others are doing but just haven’t gotten caught yet. It is pretty disheartening.

I welcome Lelands to come on and give their side of the story but they probably should read the emails first. They should do the right thing and donate all the money they stole on shipping from this auction to the charity of Hotchkiss’s choice. Or spend it on bigger ads on net54.

As an aside, I bought one much more expensive card from REA with a $20 shipping fee. I can complain all I want in the manner in which Brian closes his auctions but he is a prince of a guy and always seems to do the right thing. Fast delivery, packed great and always a pleasant transaction. In this ethical cesspool of a hobby that’s quite refreshing.

[calvindog]

I do not even think that Fedex will insure collectibles. I bet that most collectible companies have a private blanket policy to cover all of their shipments. I am not sure if this is in the the 1% price range or not.

My guess is that Leland’s charges the 1% to either cover the cost of their private insurance or else they are just self insuring and figure that they will take the risk for 1%.

Either way, expensive shipping charges should be disclosed up front so that a bidder can take them into consideration when bidding.

*I did not see Jeffrey’s post. Looks like he beat me to it.

I promise you that the third party policy costs nowhere near 1% of the entire auction sale.

[painthistorian]

I know that this cannot be the actual sales tax by the amount, i just thought it was a computer generated error mixing up their invoicing fields but i guess you are correct, probably self insured packages...maybe they will accomodate you to keep you happy. I dont think FEDEX insures any collectible even express boxed for anything over $1000 thats why my bro in law who sells diamonds uses registered mail.

[Kenny Cole]

Fed Ex does not insure collectibles except up to a small amount. They certainly do not cover a 60K card. Most auction houses either self-insure or have a third party policy.

That was my initial thought. So the answer doesn't make sense, nor does the rest of it.

[CuriousGeorge]

Fed Ex does not insure collectibles except up to a small amount. They certainly do not cover a 60K card. Most auction houses either self-insure or have a third party policy.

From Jillian Clinedinst, the General Manager of Lelands.

376482

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

So this past week Lelands had an auction closing and I won one card for a total of $60K. After receiving the invoice which included $623.59 for shipping and insurance, I contacted them to question it since I has simultaneously received invoices from Heritage and REA with higher value for much less shipping costs.

A woman named Jillian Clinedinst eventually responded to tell me that after looking at the invoice "it looks like they gave (me) a break. $606.59 alone is just for insurance given the total of your invoice (1% of the total is insurance) so they really only charged (me) $17 to ship." She proceeded to tell me "I can have the insurance removed if it is a problem. I just need you to respond saying that provided the material is well packed, Lelands will not be held responsible for any damages or losses during shipping."

I then asked her if her company was purchasing specific insurance with Fedex for this particular package or just using their general liability policy. No response. I asked again and she eventually went through all of the math with Fedex showing their insurance rates and how they got to $623.59 shipping. She specifically then said "we purchase insurance for each individual package we ship through Fedex based on the value of the shipment." And that "We purchase insurance for each individual package we ship through Fedex." She also reminded me that if I sent an email like she had suggested previously, that all of the shipping charges would be removed but they would take no responsibility.

Next I got another email from her. Because I was such a "good client with (them) she had reached out to her President on my behalf. He just got back to her and approved a break on my insurance loweing it to $200. He said in the event of anything happening we will absorb the remaining insurance."

I paid the bill and the card came today. I call Fedex and no insurance was ever bought for the package. I email Jillian and she doesn't answer. I email again and now receive a call from her "because she's so busy with invoices it's easier this way." She tells me they didn't buy insurance on my package because I didn't want to pay the full amount.

It's pretty clear to me this company is just stealing money from everyone under the auspices of paying for insurance on each package. In this case it was only $600+ but extrapolating it out over many auctions and many years it sure adds up. The bigger question for me is if they find the need to be stealing money from us this way when it is so obvious to see, what are they doing to us when we're bidding and in their T&C allowed to bid on any lots? Does someone perhaps have that answer?

PS - I just saw Lelands is an advertiser here so sorry Leon. But with all the shenanigans going on in this industry it doesn't seem right to let this pass as decent.

Even if they had purchased 60k in insurance from Fed Ex they only cover collectibles up to $1,000 same with UPS. They won''t tell you that while purchasing the insurance though, just when you go to make the claim. It's in the fine print, but they take your money anyway.

[JackW]

My guess is an auction house that has been around as long as Lelands knows fully well the limitations of FedEx insurance on collectables.

[Peter_Spaeth]

From Fed Ex website.

For example, FedEx permits a maximum declared value up to $1,000 for the following items:
•Artwork
•Photos
•Glassware
•Jewelry
•Furs
•Precious metals
•Plasma screens
•Antiques
•Stocks, bonds, and cash equivalents
•Collectibles, such as coins or stamps
•Some musical instruments
•Models, such as dollhouses

[sbfinley]

In college I worked part time for a gem and mineral dealer (just over a decade ago) and the going rate of third party insurance for shipments was .75 per $100 through our contract so $600 on $60k doesn’t surprise me.

[Rhotchkiss]

So many worthy charities!

It’s one thing that they charged so much. However, my issue is that they told Steven they were buying insurance, charged him for it, but never bought the insurance. I mean that’s just flat out not right. I would like to hear from Lelands though.

[frankbmd]

Maybe Jillian was just joshing you.

[wondo]

I read Jillian's email to say they purchase insurance for every package they ship with FedEx, not that they purchase the insurance from FedEx. Could be purchasing the insurance from anyone including themselves. Or am I twisting it?

[ullmandds]

Curious why this thread was moved??

[CuriousGeorge]

Me too. There’s Crazy Uncle threads and tons of PWCC so why not this? An AH selling cards is blatantly stealing from their customers. Why is this not relevant? What else are these people doing if they’re looking to steal shipping money?

Curious why this thread was moved??

[x2drich2000]

Curious why this thread was moved??

me three

[Peter_Spaeth]

Presented without comment.

[calvindog]

Presented without comment.

This may actually be the class action suit you were looking for. Every customer defrauded the same way.

[bnorth]

Presented without comment.

Thanks for answering the 3 posts above yours so eloquently.:)

[Republicaninmass]

This may actually be the class action suit you were looking for. Every customer defrauded the same way.

Somebody wake up Jake

[CuriousGeorge]

This may actually be the class action suit you were looking for. Every customer defrauded the same way.

Does Peter do class action? It’s time someone does something to stop this and I’m just the guy to bankroll it. I haven’t heard another word from Lelands by the way and no response here. This is going to be fun to see how long they have been getting away with this.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Does Peter do class action? It’s time someone does something to stop this and I’m just the guy to bankroll it. I haven’t heard another word from Lelands by the way and no response here. This is going to be fun to see how long they have been getting away with this.

I am a class act for sure.

[JackW]

Guys, I think everyone needs to take a deep breath. Leon has often said that advertisers get no special treatment here, and he has been true to his word. Just recently Crazy Uncle Auctions was roasted repeatedly on the main board. Did that thread get moved to a less visible area of Net54? No. If advertisers are protected, then that thread would have been moved. I'm sure there's a good reason this thread was moved. If Leon wants to explain why, fine. If not, that's fine too. It's his board and he provides this service for all of us to gather and talk cards with friends. Maybe we should focus on that.

[CuriousGeorge]

Haha! So what do you think about discussing this Peter? Would Lelands insurance company pay out claims? I would imagine Lelands pockets are not very deep to absorb the millions of dollars potentially taken. Or is forcing them into bankruptcy all that can happen?

[CuriousGeorge]

Jack, could you possibly give me a reason then because I can’t think of one?

Guys, I think everyone needs to take a deep breath. Leon has often said that advertisers get no special treatment here, and he has been true to his word. Just recently Crazy Uncle Auctions was roasted repeatedly on the main board. Did that thread get moved to a less visible area of Net54? No. If advertisers are protected, then that thread would have been moved. I'm sure there's a good reason this thread was moved. If Leon wants to explain why, fine. If not, that's fine too. It's his board and he provides this service for all of us to gather and talk cards with friends. Maybe we should focus on that.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Haha! So what do you think about discussing this Peter? Would Lelands insurance company pay out claims? I would imagine Lelands pockets are not very deep to absorb the millions of dollars potentially taken. Or is forcing them into bankruptcy all that can happen?

I have no idea what the limits of their liability insurance coverage are. You would also need to find other examples of bidders who were overcharged relative to their actual shipment and insurance costs.

[calvindog]

I have no idea what the limits of their liability insurance coverage are. You would also need to find other examples of bidders who were overcharged relative to their actual shipment and insurance costs.

That would be any expensive lot I’m guessing.

[bnorth]

Guys, I think everyone needs to take a deep breath. Leon has often said that advertisers get no special treatment here, and he has been true to his word. Just recently Crazy Uncle Auctions was roasted repeatedly on the main board. Did that thread get moved to a less visible area of Net54? No. If advertisers are protected, then that thread would have been moved. I'm sure there's a good reason this thread was moved. If Leon wants to explain why, fine. If not, that's fine too. It's his board and he provides this service for all of us to gather and talk cards with friends. Maybe we should focus on that.

Your thread is complete BS. Leon has called members morons and idiots, threatened banning, and openly admitted advertisers get special treatment. Actually he has even done this all in one thread before when PWCC was being called out.

Saying all that, who cares, it is his forum and he can do whatever he wants and if you don't like it don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

[Peter_Spaeth]

That would be any expensive lot I’m guessing.

Perhaps. But I doubt any plaintiff class action lawyer is going to sign up for a contingency fee case without seeing more than one example.

[calvindog]

Perhaps. But I doubt any plaintiff class action lawyer is going to sign up for a contingency fee case without seeing more than one example.

Pretty sure there won’t be any difficulty finding lawyers on this one.

[Rhotchkiss]

Does Peter do class action? It’s time someone does something to stop this and I’m just the guy to bankroll it. I haven’t heard another word from Lelands by the way and no response here. This is going to be fun to see how long they have been getting away with this.

I think its shitty this was moved, but its not my site.

Steven, speaking of bankrolling - I am all in for helping to Fund some type of watchdog organization that does the work of BODA (if not BODA) and looks for injustices in the hobby such as what this thread addresses

[Peter_Spaeth]

pretty sure there won’t be any difficulty finding lawyers on this one.

rico!!

[calvindog]

rico!!

Goated!

[RedsFan1941]

Guys, I think everyone needs to take a deep breath. Leon has often said that advertisers get no special treatment here, and he has been true to his word. Just recently Crazy Uncle Auctions was roasted repeatedly on the main board. Did that thread get moved to a less visible area of Net54? No. If advertisers are protected, then that thread would have been moved. I'm sure there's a good reason this thread was moved. If Leon wants to explain why, fine. If not, that's fine too. It's his board and he provides this service for all of us to gather and talk cards with friends. Maybe we should focus on that.

what planet do you live on? advertisers have always received protection here. i don’t blame leon for it because he has to make a living. but please don’t tell us it doesn’t happen.

[CuriousGeorge]

what planet do you live on? advertisers have always received protection here. i don’t blame leon for it because he has to make a living. but please don’t tell us it doesn’t happen.

Should advertisers be protected who are blatantly ripping off customers?

[asoriano]

Moved from the main page to the Watercooler section? Seriously?

:confused::confused::confused:

[nolemmings]

Moved from the main page to the Watercooler section? Seriously?

:confused::confused::confused:

+1

[Peter_Spaeth]

I've seen Leon weigh in on the side of sponsors before certainly, but I don't think I've seen him relegate threads critical of a sponsor to the watercooler before. I am surprised, frankly. I would think Leland's should respond, wherever the thread resides. It's not a good look to be called out and not explain.

[Lemiuex22]

I get bashing the company if you want to but why drag the girl in this? I would assume she is doing her job.

[calvindog]

She was "dragged" into this? Or was the email that she sent on behalf of the company relevant to the discussion?

And congrats on your very first post, just minutes after you joined Net 54. Amazing that you found this thread first.

[Rhotchkiss]

She was "dragged" into this? Or was the email that she sent on behalf of the company relevant to the discussion?

And congrats on your very first post, just minutes after you joined Net 54. Amazing that you found this thread first.

Great sleuthing!! Classic. You gotta watch those “Penguin Fans”

[calvindog]

Great sleuthing!! Classic. You gotta watch those “Penguin Fans”

I know the very first thing I do when joining a vintage baseball card board is to hit the never-seen, non-vintage baseball card threads.

[Republicaninmass]

Just standing 'round the water cooler defending the meek

[Shoeless Moe]

Great sleuthing!! Classic. You gotta watch those “Penguin Fans”

Some Penguin fan, even that is wrong about the poster, Lemieux22 ????, c'mon....had you gone Lemieux66 then maybe I'd give ya some credibility but 22?.

Sincerely,

Gretzky41

(The Late One)

[Peter_Spaeth]

Some Penguin fan, even that is wrong about the poster, Lemieux22 ????, c'mon....had you gone Lemieux66 then maybe I'd give ya some credibility but 22?.

Sincerely,

Gretzky41

(The Late One)

Claude not Mario.

[frankbmd]

Claude Leland, not Josh?

[Rhotchkiss]

Claude not Mario.

Again, nice sleuthing. And where is Leland's located? (that is a rhetorical question).

Bottom line, Lelands charged Steven $200 for insurance that it never procured. I do not believe that is legal; it certainly is not ethical. If they did that to Steven, odds are it was done to others in the auction. And, if it was done in this auction, there is a chance (maybe a likelihood) it was done in prior auctions.

At the very least, I hope other AHs take note of this event and take steps to ensure that they are not overcharging or incorrectly charging winners. There is enough BS in the industry already.

Ryan Hotchkiss

PS -- I dont think I have ever won anything from Lelands (but I have certainly bid in their auctions), and they tend to have very quality stuff. I sincerely hope they fix this and publicly explain the confusion because i do not want to cross another AH off my "will not bid list".

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

The only explanation I can come up with is that they are charging to self-insure. Basically they are taking the insurance payment and eating the cost if there is a claim. If any claim is paid without hassle I don't have an issue with it, but being upfront about it would probably be a better plan.

[conor912]

For $623 I'd fly my ass there and pick it up myself.

[buymycards]

If Steve spent $60k, that would mean that his item was around $50k, and he paid a 20% BP of around $10k. So, Lelands made $10k on the BP, then tried to gouge him for another $600?

Real classy.

[CuriousGeorge]

I bought the Ruth D350-3 Standard Biscuit Ruth.

[CuriousGeorge]

I spoke with three of the big auction houses on Friday and they all gave their support. Each gave me additional information as to the type of guy the owner Josh Evans is and none were surprised and provided me with more stories. I have spoken with two class action attorneys and two more on Monday and then will decide who to engage. The two I spoke with each said if the allegations are true it is outright fraud and they will be liable to everyone they did this to. In additional multiple other Leland clients who suspect they have the same issues have come forward to be apart of this.

I am going to give Lelands until the end of day Monday to clarify anything but from their lack of response it appears they are hoping by banishing this thread to the water cooler section the whole thing will just go away. It won’t. Lelands, here’s your chance to tell your side of the story before this escalates. Looking forward to your version so I can give you an apology.

[calvindog]

Just checked my June 2019 Lelands invoice:

Two cards, total cost of cards plus BP: $48,140.40. Shipping and insurance: $718.16.

So Leland's charged me 1.5% of the total for shipping and insurance.

[MikeGarcia]

Just checked my June 2019 Lelands invoice:

Two cards, total cost of cards plus BP: $48,140.40. Shipping and insurance: $718.16.

So Leland's charged me 1.5% of the total for shipping and insurance.


..I have a feeling that an awful lot of popcorn is going to be consumed between now and 5;01 p.m. on Monday....

..

[bnorth]

I bought the Ruth D350-3 Standard Biscuit Ruth.

Just checked my June 2019 Lelands invoice:

Two cards, total cost of cards plus BP: $48,140.40. Shipping and insurance: $718.16.

So Leland's charged me 1.5% of the total for shipping and insurance.

Is this a serious thread and are these 2 posts for real?:confused:

You have no problem paying 20% for the privilege of buying something. Then have the balls to complain about a 1%-1 1/2% shipping and insurance charge.

Thanks for the laugh at 1%er 1st world problems, have a great day gentlemen.

[Rhotchkiss]

Ben, it’s not the amount that matters. What matters is that they are charging for something they are not giving/the buyer is not receiving. That is theft, or fraud, and/or flat out wrong, regardless of whether it’s $10 or $600 or 20% or 1%. And, the amount is not disclosed! If they said in their rules that they charge 1.5% for shipping, handling, insurance, etc. than it’s abusive but at least it’s disclosed and the buyer knows what they are getting.

PWCC charges extremely silly high rates for shipping, but at least it’s disclosed. Is it right to overcharge? No. But it’s at least better to disclose you are doing it.

I understand it’s hard to sympathize with someone who buys $60k cards. But that does not justify an auction house charging a buyer $200 for something they never procured. Wrong is wrong.

[calvindog]

Is this a serious thread and are these 2 posts for real?:confused:

You have no problem paying 20% for the privilege of buying something. Then have the balls to complain about a 1%-1 1/2% shipping and insurance charge.

Thanks for the laugh at 1%er 1st world problems, have a great day gentlemen.

Ben, on Thanksgiving while you were stuffing yourself with turkey and watching football, I was sitting inside a federal prison, inside a locked room, seeing clients. For hours. I’m unaware how that makes me immune from being defrauded. Perhaps Lelands can use that as a legal defense?

[RedsFan1941]

comparing a buyer’s premium with an inflated shipping charge is entirely missing the point. bp is stated up front and most people capable of doing fourth grade math factor that in to their bidding. it’s not a penalty. inflated shipping charges are, and in many states they also are illegal. it’s a simple rule not to use shipping as a profit center.

[111gecko]

Once Leland's provides the insurance receipts from Fed-Ex for each buyer that requests it; this should be a moot thread.

If they don't and buyers find out they actually had a third party blanket policy that wasn't disclosed and also considerably marked up...I think there is going to be a problem.

The first response I could imagine is Leland's claiming "this doesn't matter; there is an insurance policy for every item". On the surface that sounds like a reasonable response, however, if 1) a buyer was promised a fed-ex policy; they should get it and 2) would a buyer still purchase a $60,000 card not knowing if the insurance company is reputable and/or if Leland's could/would cover the deficiency if the company didn't pay on a claim?

Disclosure is a good thing....

[bnorth]

Ben, on Thanksgiving while you were stuffing yourself with turkey and watching football, I was sitting inside a federal prison, inside a locked room, seeing clients. For hours. I’m unaware how that makes me immune from being defrauded. Perhaps Lelands can use that as a legal defense?

Jeffery I in no way am saying you don't deserve everything you have. I am looking at it more as a percentage thing. For you shipping and insurance is 1 1/2%, for lazy poor people like myself who only spend a few hundred the percentage is easily 10-20X what you pay.

He also could have easily asked what shipping/insurance would be before he bid. I know it is a PITA but I done it recently on a lot because I knew the shipping/insurance percentage could be WAY more than I would pay, I was right and passed after seeing the price.

Steven was given 3 options, he chose the one he wanted, should be end of story IMHO.

[AustinMike]

This is an interesting thread and I am also very curious as to why it was moved to the water cooler forum.

In any case, I recently "won" items in 5 recent auctions. This thread has caused me to look at the invoices from each of them.

Love of the Game and Heritage each included a charge for "Shipping and Handling," REA and Lelands each included a charge for "Shipping and Insurance," and Clean Sweep Auctions included charges for "Insurance" and "Shipping and Handling."

The shipping fees represent the following percentages of the winning bid plus BP:

Love of the Game - 1.50% (I "won" 1 lot, a large (35"x28" piece)
Heritage - 2.11% (I "won" 1 lot, a slabbed item)
REA - 0.505% (I "won" 2 lots, an unfolded box and a complete box)
Lelands - 1.85% (I "won" 2 lots, a 10"x14" paper poster, and 10 small tags)
Clean Sweep Auctions - 1.85% (I "won" 3 lots, 2 pictures and a pin)

(Items are included to give an idea of what actual mailing costs might be.)

REA definitely added the least for shipping and insurance than the other four. Interestingly, I couldn't find any information on its website regarding shipping charges. However, the other sites do give information regarding their shipping charges.

Love of the Game - "The actual shipping costs are determined by the*weight*of the package and the method of shipping, and not by its value, with a small amount added to cover the cost of packaging materials. **WE DO NOT CHARGE YOU FOR INSURANCE.**We have a blanket policy that we have to buy, regardless of whether or not you win anything, so we do not think it's fair to make you pay for insurance."

Heritage - "Our fees, shipping, and handling charges include shipping, handling and private carrier insurance. Shipping varies according to the item type, quantity, and value (for insurance purposes). Certain packages may cost more to ship and insure and you may be contacted if there are additional costs after receipt of shipment. All charges are based on shipping within the continental United States, and shipments to other areas will likely incur a higher charge."

Lelands - "You are also responsible for all shipping and handling costs, which includes shipping, packing, labor, materials & insurance. Our shipping rates are industry competitive."

Clean Sweep Auctions - "*Estimated Shipping includes $5.00 minimum shipping charge. When you win more than one item, this fee is only charged once. Estimated Shipping does not include insurance, which is 1% of your total order. Estimated Shipping is discounted for Multiple Lots when lots are the same size. These estimates are for shipping east of the Mississippi. Additional charges apply for shipping to Western states and other countries.
"

Even though LotG says they do not charge for insurance, I seriously doubt it costs $180 to send a 35"x28" advertising piece, so I would bet they did add a 1% insurance charge despite their claim. Heritage, Lelands, and CSA all say upfront that they add insurance, although only CSA says upfront that it is 1%.

Steve, in the end, just be content knowing that Lelands' "shipping rates are industry competitive." :rolleyes:

[conor912]

Is this a serious thread and are these 2 posts for real?:confused:

You have no problem paying 20% for the privilege of buying something. Then have the balls to complain about a 1%-1 1/2% shipping and insurance charge.

Thanks for the laugh at 1%er 1st world problems, have a great day gentlemen.

Ben, while I understand your sentiment, I think it’s unfair. By this logic, Bill Gates would have no right to be upset if someone stole $200 from his wallet. No one deserves to get ripped off, regardless of their financial status. No one’s asking you to feel bad, but vilifying the OP seems misguided.

[AGuinness]

Ben, while I understand your sentiment, I think it’s unfair. By this logic, Bill Gates would have no right to be upset if someone stole $200 from his wallet. No one deserves to get ripped off, regardless of their financial status. No one’s asking you to feel bad, but vilifying the OP seems misguided.

Agreed. It's not about what was charged, but that a charge occurred for something that was then not delivered on. This is basically what happens in "The Firm."
And count me among the chorus of people who finds it misguided this thread was moved to the Watercooler section.

[keithsky]

My guess is it was moved to this section to keep the activity on it low and out of sight.

[CuriousGeorge]

Obviously Ben the issue isn’t the money as fortunately I am in a position not to have to worry about that. What is the issue is that Lelands basically looked me in the eye and told me the $600+ they were charging for shipping and insurance was quoted directly from FedEx and that they were paying that to insure my package. They then came back as an accommodation for me being such a good customer (I’ve purchased only 2 items in my life from them) they would reduce the charge to $200 and they would incur the rest. The package then arrived and there was no FedEx insurance on it at all.

Besides being pissed that I believe I was blatantly lied to, the bigger question to me is what else is Lelands doing? Are they shill bidding as well? Is it so out of the question after $10,000 was not enough for them to make on an item that they also need to grab another $600? The lawyers tell me we will be able to examine those records as well so this could get very interesting.

No matter how rich or poor someone may be, no one wants to get cheated. Expect for perhaps you Ben. I think if you look at this more clearly and instead of counting my money you possibly could see it differently.


Is this a serious thread and are these 2 posts for real?:confused:

You have no problem paying 20% for the privilege of buying something. Then have the balls to complain about a 1%-1 1/2% shipping and insurance charge.

Thanks for the laugh at 1%er 1st world problems, have a great day gentlemen.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Just checked my June 2019 Lelands invoice:

Two cards, total cost of cards plus BP: $48,140.40. Shipping and insurance: $718.16.

So Leland's charged me 1.5% of the total for shipping and insurance.

You and Steven can be named plaintiffs. I actually have a case where two brothers are named plaintiffs.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Once Leland's provides the insurance receipts from Fed-Ex for each buyer that requests it; this should be a moot thread.

If they don't and buyers find out they actually had a third party blanket policy that wasn't disclosed and also considerably marked up...I think there is going to be a problem.

The first response I could imagine is Leland's claiming "this doesn't matter; there is an insurance policy for every item". On the surface that sounds like a reasonable response, however, if 1) a buyer was promised a fed-ex policy; they should get it and 2) would a buyer still purchase a $60,000 card not knowing if the insurance company is reputable and/or if Leland's could/would cover the deficiency if the company didn't pay on a claim?

Disclosure is a good thing....

That will be difficult to produce given that Fed Ex has a 1K limit for collectibles.

[111gecko]

That will be difficult to produce given that Fed Ex has a 1K limit for collectibles.

That's the point...this is going to get ugly.

[Peter_Spaeth]

That's the point...this is going to get ugly.

As the song goes, "How long....has this been going on?"

[111gecko]

As the song goes, "How long....has this been going on?"

I think Bowie nailed it...

[sbfinley]

That will be difficult to produce given that Fed Ex has a 1K limit for collectibles.

I would guess that their insurance is through a 3rd party and whole “we purchase insurance for each individual package we ship through Fedex“ can read that way just as much as you want to read it as “we insure our packages through Fedex.” I could be wrong though. You never know. Just from distance though I see a guy who complained about pricing, was given a discount, and within 48 hours is talking about whipping up a lawsuit. That’s not reasonable to me. The discount changes the parameters of the situation and unless I’m presented evidence that they never insure packages they charge for they aren’t guilty of anything other than having high rates. In that case 90% of the houses I deal with are guilty as well. If new evidence is presented then cool, I’ll change my opinion.

[Peter_Spaeth]

If they have 3rd party insurance I doubt they pay separately for each and every item; more logical to me they would have a fixed fee policy. Could be wrong.

[CuriousGeorge]

And that’s why Steven we’re giving them the opportunity to explain their side of the story before we proceed. Thus far all that has happened is a thread that seems to be quite pertinent to the hobby has been moved to the water cooler section and crickets.

I would guess that their insurance is through a 3rd party and whole “we purchase insurance for each individual package we ship through Fedex“ can read that way just as much as you want to read it as “we insure our packages through Fedex.” I could be wrong though. You never know. Just from distance though I see a guy who complained about pricing, was given a discount, and within 48 hours is talking about whipping up a lawsuit. That’s not reasonable to me. The discount changes the parameters of the situation and unless I’m presented evidence that they never insure packages they charge for they aren’t guilty of anything other than having high rates. In that case 90% of the houses I deal with are guilty as well. If new evidence is presented then cool, I’ll change my opinion.

[Republicaninmass]

I too checked my invoices

I complained about an 800 4 card lot having a 28 shipping and insurance.

Kelly wrote back

"Hello ted, it is shipping and Insurance I can take a look at it for you."


I think I just paid it, as there is no further correspondence


3/2017
$1275 shipping 50

10/17
$4592 shipping 80

2/19
$850.shipping $28

[BruceinGa]

As the song goes, "How long....has this been going on?"
I believe it was Ace, 1974

[Peter_Spaeth]

I believe it was Ace, 1974

Not to be confused with the Amazing Rhythm Aces.

[ullmandds]

It's starting to feel a little bit as if the hobby is against the collectors these days??? Talk about biting the hand that feeds you?

[frankbmd]

I believe it was Ace, 1974

Not to be confused with the Amazing Rhythm Aces.

I never even had a third rate romance with the rhythm aces, but was always drawn toward Clarence “Frogman” Henry. I don’t know why I love him, but I do.:eek::D

[BruceinGa]

I never even had a third rate romance with the rhythm aces, but was always drawn toward Clarence “Frogman” Henry. I don’t know why I love him, but I do.:eek::D

I'm usually pretty good on late 50's through 70 bands and singers. I remember very well Third Rate Romance but didn't know of Amazing Rhythm Aces. I see they are from Memphis. I'll ask my softball teammates from Memphis if they are still around.

[maniac_73]

If I nickle and dimed customers paying 5 and six figures I would be out of business. Poor business practice by the auction houses.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I'm usually pretty good on late 50's through 70 bands and singers. I remember very well Third Rate Romance but didn't know of Amazing Rhythm Aces. I see they are from Memphis. I'll ask my softball teammates from Memphis if they are still around.

There were so many terrible songs in the 70s it would be hard to rank them. This one is up there for sure. Although it can't top Feelings or You Light Up My Life.

[nolemmings]

There were so many terrible songs in the 70s it would be hard to rank them. This one is up there for sure. Although it can't top Feelings or You Light Up My Life.

Billy, Don't Be a Hero; The Night Chicago Died; Heaven on the 7th Floor; The Nights The Lights Went Out in Georgia; Me and You and a Dog Named Boo.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Billy, Don't Be a Hero; The Night Chicago Died; Heaven on the 7th Floor; The Nights The Lights Went Out in Georgia; Me and You and a Dog Named Boo.

Kung Fu Fighting
Muskrat Love
One Tin Soldier

[conor912]

It's starting to feel a little bit as if the hobby is against the collectors these days??? Talk about biting the hand that feeds you?

The “hobby” is all about money these days. Collectors are an afterthought.

[oldjudge]

I liked The Night Chicago Died. You can add Hey Jude and In My Room to my list.

[oldjudge]

There is no excuse for Leland’s not responding. I have emailed Josh twice with no response. I thought they were better than this.

[Peter_Spaeth]

From Leland's terms and conditions.

Our shipping rates are industry competitive.

[Al C.risafulli]

Even though LotG says they do not charge for insurance, I seriously doubt it costs $180 to send a 35"x28" advertising piece, so I would bet they did add a 1% insurance charge despite their claim.

Hi Michael!

I don't intend to get involved in this thread; I just wanted to circle back and clarify something on this post, which was brought to my attention last night.

We ship items of that size via FedEx 2-day, because packages of that size are not eligible for USPS "Click and Ship" service (and because we find FedEx more trustworthy with large packages). Because the item you won is extremely delicate, we special-ordered a 31 x 36 x 3" deluxe artwork shipper (ULine model S-9919, cost $103.00) to help prevent damage in shipping. With the piece inside, the box weighs about 11 pounds. The cost to send a package of that size and weight via Fed Ex 2-Day from our location to yours (without insurance) is $189.12.

So, factoring the costs of materials plus shipping, our cost to get your package to you is $292.12.

We charged you $177.33 for shipping, plus $3.00 for packing materials. I guess our software underestimated the shipping costs a little bit!

We do not charge for insurance.

Hope this helps!

-Al

[Peter_Spaeth]

Also noteworthy that the communication to Steven was not exactly from a low level employee.

https://lelands.com/our-experts

[Peter_Spaeth]

There is no excuse for Leland’s not responding. I have emailed Josh twice with no response. I thought they were better than this.

Maybe they don't work weekends.:eek:

[oldjudge]

Hi Michael!

I don't intend to get involved in this thread; I just wanted to circle back and clarify something on this post, which was brought to my attention last night.

We ship items of that size via FedEx 2-day, because packages of that size are not eligible for USPS "Click and Ship" service (and because we find FedEx more trustworthy with large packages). Because the item you won is extremely delicate, we special-ordered a 31 x 36 x 3" deluxe artwork shipper (ULine model S-9919, cost $103.00) to help prevent damage in shipping. With the piece inside, the box weighs about 11 pounds. The cost to send a package of that size and weight via Fed Ex 2-Day from our location to yours (without insurance) is $189.12.

So, factoring the costs of materials plus shipping, our cost to get your package to you is $292.12.

We charged you $177.33 for shipping, plus $3.00 for packing materials. I guess our software underestimated the shipping costs a little bit!

We do not charge for insurance.

Hope this helps!

-Al
I can add that Al sent a framed lot to me several years ago and lost money on the shipping. Al is an honest guy!

[calvindog]

Hi Michael!

I don't intend to get involved in this thread; I just wanted to circle back and clarify something on this post, which was brought to my attention last night.

We ship items of that size via FedEx 2-day, because packages of that size are not eligible for USPS "Click and Ship" service (and because we find FedEx more trustworthy with large packages). Because the item you won is extremely delicate, we special-ordered a 31 x 36 x 3" deluxe artwork shipper (ULine model S-9919, cost $103.00) to help prevent damage in shipping. With the piece inside, the box weighs about 11 pounds. The cost to send a package of that size and weight via Fed Ex 2-Day from our location to yours (without insurance) is $189.12.

So, factoring the costs of materials plus shipping, our cost to get your package to you is $292.12.

We charged you $177.33 for shipping, plus $3.00 for packing materials. I guess our software underestimated the shipping costs a little bit!

We do not charge for insurance.

Hope this helps!

-Al

Al, when are my cards going out? :) Josh charged me $2 million for insurance but he’s a fast shipper!

[oldjudge]

Was that $2 million with the reduced shipping charge?

[Al C.risafulli]

Al, when are my cards going out?

Coming Soon

-Al

[calvindog]

Was that $2 million with the reduced shipping charge?

No, his dog delivered the package. He has multiple jobs at Lelands.

[CuriousGeorge]

I am actually really laughing out loud on that one

No, his dog delivered the package. He has multiple jobs at Lelands.

[oldjudge]

?

[calvindog]

376929

[CuriousGeorge]

Josh and Jillian are probably on a private island with their shipping charges.

Maybe they don't work weekends.:eek:

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

From Leland's terms and conditions.

Our shipping rates are industry competitive.

It's all a matter of perspective. From their POV they're winning the competition...

[Peter_Spaeth]

376929

Placing his bids is he?

[CuriousGeorge]

I think hes on the Fedex site calculating shipping charges.

Placing his bids is he?

[Stampsfan]

There were so many terrible songs in the 70s it would be hard to rank them. This one is up there for sure. Although it can't top Feelings or You Light Up My Life.

If you hated that "Feelings" song as much as I did, you need to listen to the Offspring version. Off Americana if I recall correctly. Maybe the best remake ever.

[111gecko]

Any updates on this? Figured we would hear something today?..

[CuriousGeorge]

To be respectful of the board’s owner and the apparent censorship of fraud of the board’s advertisers, going forward any of my discussions of hobby related fraud will be handled in a more welcoming forum.

[bnorth]

To be respectful of the board’s owner and the apparent censorship of fraud of the board’s advertisers, going forward any of my discussions of hobby related fraud will be handled in a more welcoming forum.

Good luck finding said forum.;):D

[CuriousGeorge]

Good luck finding said forum.;):D

Weren’t you the guy who was called an idiot for pointing out fraud or do I have you confused with someone else?;):D

[bnorth]

Weren’t you the guy who was called an idiot for pointing out fraud or do I have you confused with someone else?

Idiot, moron, shown a pic of a door, all sorts of hilarious stuff.

[AustinMike]

Hi Michael!

I don't intend to get involved in this thread; I just wanted to circle back and clarify something on this post, which was brought to my attention last night.

We ship items of that size via FedEx 2-day, because packages of that size are not eligible for USPS "Click and Ship" service (and because we find FedEx more trustworthy with large packages). Because the item you won is extremely delicate, we special-ordered a 31 x 36 x 3" deluxe artwork shipper (ULine model S-9919, cost $103.00) to help prevent damage in shipping. With the piece inside, the box weighs about 11 pounds. The cost to send a package of that size and weight via Fed Ex 2-Day from our location to yours (without insurance) is $189.12.

So, factoring the costs of materials plus shipping, our cost to get your package to you is $292.12.

We charged you $177.33 for shipping, plus $3.00 for packing materials. I guess our software underestimated the shipping costs a little bit!

We do not charge for insurance.

Hope this helps!

-Al

Hey Al,

This helps a lot. I was completely ignorant of the cost of sending such items. Even though ignorance is bliss, it can lead to footinmouthitis, a horrible disease.

My sincerest apologies.

Michael

[BruceinGa]

Kung Fu Fighting
Muskrat Love
One Tin Soldier

One of my favorites is Let it All Hang Out by The Hombres!

[ruth-gehrig]

Has the OP not had any resolution or contact from Leland's about this?

[keithsky]

Well it's funny because the OP went on a big rant and rave in the begining to crickets now.

[calvindog]

Oh there’s an update. But it’s not going in a thread in the “all sports talk” watercooler section.

[bnorth]

Oh there’s an update. But it’s not going in a thread in the “all sports talk” watercooler section.

Is it going to be in the testing section at the very bottom?;):D

[Leon]

Oh there’s an update. But it’s not going in a thread in the “all sports talk” watercooler section.

Could be interesting what a judge says to someone who doesn't read the rules or ask any questions? It would be right below the impeachment going on and the El Chapo Trial in national scope, I am sure....

[Republicaninmass]

Is it going to be in the testing section at the very bottom?;):D


Right next to the NYPL library stamp

[Shoeless Moe]

Anyone else getting their item held up by Lelands due to their comments in this thread?

They rec'd my check on 12/13 or 12/14, yet blame the holidays for the delay:

"Thank you for bidding in our auction. We sincerely apologize for this inconvenience. Your order has not been shipped due to the Holiday and high volume of invoices in the queue.

We are doing our utmost to send your items out as soon as possible to avoid further delay."

Funny, how Love of the Game(ended 12/1) and Clean Sweep had auctions that same time frame, actually Clean Sweep(ended 12/13) ended almost a week after Lelands, thus they got my check a week later then Lelands(ended 12/6), yet I rec'd my Clean Sweep item over a week ago...and the LOTG item I also rec'd shortly after their auction ended. I even got a Consigner check from Goldin(ended 12/8) before Leland even ships my items let alone when I actually receive.

What a class organization. Delay my ass, you critique them and they play hostage with my long ago cashed check item.

And when someone from Lelands reads this, and they will, have the balls to reply.

[bnorth]

Anyone else getting their item held up by Lelands due to their comments in this thread?

They rec'd my check on 12/13 or 12/14, yet blame the holidays for the delay:

"Thank you for bidding in our auction. We sincerely apologize for this inconvenience. Your order has not been shipped due to the Holiday and high volume of invoices in the queue.

We are doing our utmost to send your items out as soon as possible to avoid further delay."

Funny, how Love of the Game(ended 12/1) and Clean Sweep had auctions that same time frame, actually Clean Sweep(ended 12/13) ended almost a week after Lelands, thus they got my check a week later then Lelands(ended 12/6), yet I rec'd my Clean Sweep item over a week ago...and the LOTG item I also rec'd shortly after their auction ended. I even got a Consigner check from Goldin(ended 12/8) before Leland even ships my items let alone when I actually receive.

What a class organization. Delay my ass, you critique them and they play hostage with my long ago cashed check item.

And when someone from Lelands reads this, and they will, have the balls to reply.

I am sure it is because of the holidays.

Would a company actually punish someone with the risk of losing future business? If so there would be a LOT of stupid going on.

[Shoeless Moe]

If it was delayed in shipping then I'd say yes that could be due to the Holidays, busy season for the Post Office, UPS & FEDEX. But how does the Holidays effect them, they arn't working? They are off like schools?

My office is still open. Closed for Christmas. 1 day. Some I'm sure get Eve off as well. Doesn't explain all the other days before and after.

Also, I got this from them on 12/17:

Thank you for bidding in our auction. We have received your payment/credit, thank you.

Your order is in process and will be shipped on or before 12/23/19.

How was my order "in process" on 12/17, now on 12/27 still not out and guessing its not going out this weekend so at earliest 12/30, if that.

[bnorth]

If it was delayed in shipping then I'd say yes that could be due to the Holidays, busy season for the Post Office, UPS & FEDEX. But how does the Holidays effect them, they arn't working? They are off like schools?

My office is still open. Closed for Christmas. 1 day. Some I'm sure get Eve off as well. Doesn't explain all the other days before and after.

Also, I got this from them on 12/17:

Thank you for bidding in our auction. We have received your payment/credit, thank you.

Your order is in process and will be shipped on or before 12/23/19.

How was my order "in process" on 12/17, now on 12/27 still not out and guessing its not going out this weekend so at earliest 12/30, if that.

Now for the big question. Is this going to affect if you bid with them again?

[Shoeless Moe]

Well I have been known to be impatient and been known to be wrong.......so.....I'll see how this plays out before I consider that.

Depends on how much longer it takes.

I know they've been reading this thread, so they will do one of 2 things now. Hold even longer, or ship it on Mon/Tues. We'll see.

Also, if you know you are not going to be shipping winners their items after the auction ends due to the Holidays, maybe don't have a pre-Holiday auction.

Again, Goldin, Love of the Game, Clean Sweep had no problem with their December auctions and the Holidays.

Lelands can't juggle an auction and the Holidays.....a little mind boggling.

[bnorth]

Well I have been known to be impatient and been known to be wrong.......so.....I'll see how this plays out before I consider that.

Depends on how much longer it takes.

I know they've been reading this thread, so they will do one of 2 things now. Hold even longer, or ship it on Mon/Tues. We'll see.

Also, if you know you are not going to be shipping winners their items after the auction ends due to the Holidays, maybe don't have a pre-Holiday auction.

Again, Goldin, Love of the Game, Clean Sweep had no problem with their December auctions and the Holidays.

Lelands can't juggle an auction and the Holidays.....a little mind boggling.

To the bold part, been there myself.:)

It would be nice to hear from others who won items in that auction on if they have received their items.

[Shoeless Moe]

AND...........I'm a Stooge.

or.....they saw this.


Or both!

So just got an email

"The items you have won have/will be shipped on 12/27/19."

a 1000 apologies.....salami salami baloney!!!

All good.

[earlywynnfan]

For me, payment received 12/13
Shipped 12/21
Received 12/23

[ruth-gehrig]

2 and a half years after previous post...

What ever happened?

I was recently charged nearly 9% shipping and insurance on a single baseball valued under $500. I emailed Lelands yesterday asking for an explanation and haven't heard back. Sounds like these excessive fees are continuing??:rolleyes:

[ruth-gehrig]

2 and a half years after previous post...

What ever happened?

I was recently charged nearly 9% shipping and insurance on a single baseball valued under $500. I emailed Lelands yesterday asking for an explanation and haven't heard back. Sounds like these excessive fees are continuing??:rolleyes:


Boring story short, if anyone still cares about this thread.....

Jillian has told me shipping charge of $42 for a single baseball was wrong and has been recalculated to $25!!

Watch your invoices from Lelands

[Republicaninmass]

She reduced mine from 25 to 10. I said please send small flat rate, no insurance. Card was less than 100$

[jethrod3]

This reminds me of some shenanigans I recently experienced with Beckett regarding insurance and shipping. A few months ago Beckett came to our local show. They did onsite grading and accepted cards that they would take back with them for grading and autograph authentication. I rarely grade cards, but I had an autographed card that was starting to rise rapidly and I wanted to know where it stood. So I submitted it for grading.

The cost of the grading and slabbing was reasonable. What wasn't was the insurance and shipping costs. I put the value at $2K (I wasn't quite sure what grade would be returned and felt this was accurate as I assumed it could come back even with a "6"). Insurance was $28 which seemed steep, but whatever----I accepted it. But I asked for the cheapest shipping method with a signature to be requested. It was suggested by the Beckett rep that I go with FED-EX 2-day delivery rather than FED-EX ground (because of "increased risk of jostling"), and that they would request a signature before leaving the package.

Not only did the FED-EX delivery person fail to attempt to get my signature, but they left just the package on my doorstep without knocking or ringing the doorbell. Even more concerning is that apparently they didn't even approach the doorstep. I have RING, and when we viewed the recording, there was no evidence of any delivery person entering the doorway area. This means that the person must have tossed the package onto the doorstep from several feet away, outside of the camera's view. To Beckett's credit, they had packed the slabbed card very well. There was no damage. But I felt it was wrong to pay an exorbitant rate for a service that was not provided. So I contacted Beckett. I received an email response from a lower level rep telling me that I was free to contact FED-EX myself, but that Beckett had nothing to do with the issue. So I emailed again, told them that this was hogwash because they arranged for the shipping, and asked to talk with a supervisor. The supervisor called me, apologized but gave no real reasonable explanation except to say that there have been other complaints about FED-EX by Beckett customers, and then offered to give me a credit of $7 toward my next submission. I have yet to receive an email confirming that.

The only happy ending is that the card came back faster than I thought, and with a grade that was much better than I expected (OK, much better---I'll never understand how people grade chicken-scratch autographs!!!) However, I remain soured on the overall grading card experience; something like this doesn't make me want to submit cards again any time soon.