Goldin lots still open 1/2 he after nobids

[sflayank]

Why?

[bounce]

This is absolutely outrageous, but why should anyone be surprised?

With less than 2 minutes to go in the first 30 minutes of extended bidding, the Goldin site all of sudden goes "down", and they extend every lot ANOTHER 25 minutes?

I don't want to hear any excuses. What a joke.

[bounce]

Now it says it's another HOUR plus?

[bobfreedman]

David, we are experiencing technical issues and are working hard to fix them. Please be patient

[calvindog]

It seems to be working fine now. So why add an extra 90 mins when there’s supposed to be just a 30 minute clock? I’d hate to have left a ceiling bid.

[bounce]

Bob - I should have won my items 48 minutes ago, not potentially another 48 minutes from now? And that assumes the end time doesn't change again between now and then?

So far, the only "notification" I've gotten is a reply on a message board. I don't see any outbid notices, there's nothing about it on the website front page or front auction page, there's nothing in my email about it, just a message board post saying "technical issues" and an extension of more than DOUBLE what was supposed to be the extended bidding rules of 30 minutes per auction.

I'm confident about one thing.

"15. Goldin Auctions reserves the right to postpone or delay an auction for any reason without recourse from any bidder or prospective bidder."

I stand by my "joke" comment. It absolutely still applies.

[bounce]

It seems to be working fine now. So why add an extra 90 mins when there’s supposed to be just a 30 minute clock? I’d hate to have left a ceiling bid.

wanna bet it works just fine until it doesn't? probably in about another 35 minutes or so...

[bounce]

Actually, it's even worse than I thought. As of 10:22 PM CST, it's ANOTHER 36 minutes BEFORE extended bidding.

With no explanation other than a message board post.

Unbelievable. Just, wow...

[ValKehl]

I received this email from Goldin at 10:48 p.m. EST:

"Due to the system slowness and crash earlier, in fairness to all bidders and consignors the auction is OPEN.

ALL LOTS are in extended bidding. you can ONLY bid on lots you have placed a bid on. at midnight eastern a new 30 minute clock will begin and the auction will close lot by lot on the 30 minute rule. Please EMAIL if you have a question do not call, we are jammed on the phones.

thank you"

[joed25]

Why would they schedule an auction during the Postseason? Wait till November.

[ValKehl]

Why would they schedule an auction during the Postseason? Wait till November.

Several auction houses do this. I assume it's because they know there is great interest in MLB during the postseason, and they believe it will carry over to their auctions.

If they wait until November, after the postseason has ended, interest in MLB declines as folks get geared up for Thanksgiving.

[steve B]

Extending things because there's some system slowdown or failure is better than the alternative.

One auction I was bidding on (Bike auction, not cards) I had a few decent bids I'd put in on maybe 10 items.

Log on in the morning, and all of them had sold for less sometimes much less than my maximum. Waited a couple days and asked why I hadn't gotten an invoice yet.
Oh, because you didn't win anything...
Went through my list of bids placed and final prices with them on the phone.
Every lot was during a time their computer that had the internet bids on it was down.

Instead of waiting a bit to reboot or fix it, they just carried on with the auction and ignored the already placed internet bids. Mine weren't that night, but a couple weeks before.

So the consigners were out maybe a thousand from me, not a huge deal I guess, but it was something like 50-100 lots they sold cheap because of it.

All I got was "sorry, we didn't have the time to fix the computer. "
Ever heard of a pencil?
Yeah, sorry, we don't write down any bids. We don't have the time.

And that was it.

[Leon]

As someone who has run a small online auction company I can safely say there is no playbook when the system goes down, for whatever reason, near the end of an auction. The auctioneer has to protect his consignors as well as hopefully not upset the bidders too. It isn't easy, I can assure folks of that. It is usually a very fluid and crappy situation.

[Snapolit1]

As someone who has run a small online auction company I can safely say there is no playbook when the system goes down, for whatever reason, near the end of an auction. The auctioneer has to protect his consignors as well as hopefully not upset the bidders too. It isn't easy, I can assure folks of that. It is usually a very fluid and crappy situation.

System going down, near the end of the auction, for whatever reason . . . .

Seems to be something we have now seen with most of the major AHs in the last year. Very odd.

If I was the leading bidder on a high priced item and someone then proceeded to bid in extended, extended hours, moving my bid up higher after they had days to do so . . . I'd think long and hard about whether to honor my commitment. Is there boiler plate language in the terms of auction basically saying "you still need to honor you commitment to pay regardless of what crazy things goes wrong with the closing of the auction regardless of how ridiculous it is. . . ." I'm sure there is. If I thought something potentially fraudulent was going on my response may well I'm withdrawing my bid. If that's not acceptable perhaps my second response would be let's litigate it, and I'll need to see all your documents (including emails) as to exactly what went wrong and why so I understand what reasonable precautions you took before and during the problem to protect me a customer. Maybe then I'll make a decision as to how I want to proceed.

And I'm not suggesting that any of these incidents were problematic. I have no proof of that. But as a customer of all of them this is alarming. Particularly where the AH and their employees can bid on an item.

[drcy]

Extending things because there's some system slowdown or failure is better than the alternative.

One auction I was bidding on (Bike auction, not cards) I had a few decent bids I'd put in on maybe 10 items.

Log on in the morning, and all of them had sold for less sometimes much less than my maximum. Waited a couple days and asked why I hadn't gotten an invoice yet.
Oh, because you didn't win anything...
Went through my list of bids placed and final prices with them on the phone.
Every lot was during a time their computer that had the internet bids on it was down.

Instead of waiting a bit to reboot or fix it, they just carried on with the auction and ignored the already placed internet bids. Mine weren't that night, but a couple weeks before.

So the consigners were out maybe a thousand from me, not a huge deal I guess, but it was something like 50-100 lots they sold cheap because of it.

All I got was "sorry, we didn't have the time to fix the computer. "
Ever heard of a pencil?
Yeah, sorry, we don't write down any bids. We don't have the time.

And that was it.

Funny. I work two nights a week at a playhouse, and when the computer for the bar goes down (funky wifi once in a while) I have the bartenders tabulate orders the old fashioned way-- pen on paper.

[swarmee]

Yeah, sorry, we don't write down any bids. We don't have the time.
Sounds like a story their state licensing board would like to know.

[Rich Klein]

It appears this is all part of a mischievous plan. And remember this occurred to Huggins and Scott a while back as well.

https://www.sportscollectorsdaily.com/auction-house-websites-crash-hackers-at-work/

Regards
Rich

[perezfan]

Disgruntled Underbidders? :confused:

[AGuinness]

Funny. I work two nights a week at a playhouse, and when the computer for the bar goes down (funky wifi once in a while) I have the bartenders tabulate orders the old fashioned way-- pen on paper.

There's probably a slightly more than subtle difference between a bar tab and the auction items that could get into five or six figures (although there are those tall tales about people throwing down at bars, too). If auction houses and their clients (consignors and bidders) were all completely comfortable with a system that used pen and paper to determine auction outcomes (with bidding information obviously out in the open for the auction house representatives), that system would probably be used - much cheaper than software, etc. But I don't think I'd want my maximum bid known by the auction house, much less scribbled down in someone's handwriting that might look like chicken scratch.
Taking a step back, something like this kind of seems like a first-world problem. We are so used to having regularly occurring auctions that offer a wide range of desired items (including many expensive ones, scarce pieces, etc.) that we can track, bid on and critique all while in our pajamas with the TV on in the background. And without the hassle of interacting with a live person (who the heck wants to do that?!). Most of the time, these auctions happen without a hitch. I didn't have any skin in this one (or any others that have been hacked), but I'm not sure a little delay in the final bell is such a big deal.

[Snapolit1]

There's probably a slightly more than subtle difference between a bar tab and the auction items that could get into five or six figures (although there are those tall tales about people throwing down at bars, too). If auction houses and their clients (consignors and bidders) were all completely comfortable with a system that used pen and paper to determine auction outcomes (with bidding information obviously out in the open for the auction house representatives), that system would probably be used - much cheaper than software, etc. But I don't think I'd want my maximum bid known by the auction house, much less scribbled down in someone's handwriting that might look like chicken scratch.
Taking a step back, something like this kind of seems like a first-world problem. We are so used to having regularly occurring auctions that offer a wide range of desired items (including many expensive ones, scarce pieces, etc.) that we can track, bid on and critique all while in our pajamas with the TV on in the background. And without the hassle of interacting with a live person (who the heck wants to do that?!). Most of the time, these auctions happen without a hitch. I didn't have any skin in this one (or any others that have been hacked), but I'm not sure a little delay in the final bell is such a big deal.

I think any discussion of paying money for pieces of cardboard likely falls into the very overused "first world problems" canard, regardless of auction irregularities.

Do you realize that some auction house employees can bid on items? And do you know what happens in auction houses as items are closing? Consignors call up and piss and moan about how poorly their items are and how they are getting killed. And this is the last time I work with you kind of stuff. I think it's a huge issue when "irregularities" like this seem to be increasingly the norm these days.

[buymycards]

Any decent business should have contigency plans. For instance: How are we going to tabulate new bids? How are we going to notify our bidders? If our email isn't working, how about a back up bidder list on another computer system. What do we do if we are down for 30 minutes, or 1 hour or 1 day? Do we have an emergency phone number for our software person, and a back up number for someone else if the main person isn't available. How far away are they? Can they access our system from their business?

It seems that the current contigency plan for these auction houses is - "Oh shit, our system is down, now what?".

People will keep bidding with these auction houses, just as they are bidding with PWCC and just as they are continuing to swamp PSA with submissions.

PS. I did purchase a low grade T213 from PWCC a couple of weeks ago. I am no better than anyone else when it comes to a card that I need/want.

[Snapolit1]

Any decent business should have contigency plans. For instance: How are we going to tabulate new bids? How are we going to notify our bidders? If our email isn't working, how about a back up bidder list on another computer system. What do we do if we are down for 30 minutes, or 1 hour or 1 day? Do we have an emergency phone number for our software person, and a back up number for someone else if the main person isn't available. How far away are they? Can they access our system from their business?

It seems that the current contigency plan for these auction houses is - "Oh shit, our system is down, now what?".

People will keep bidding with these auction houses, just as they are bidding with PWCC and just as they are continuing to swamp PSA with submissions.

PS. I did purchase a low grade T213 from PWCC a couple of weeks ago. I am no better than anyone else when it comes to a card that I need/want.


Yes, folks like me and you will continue using the auction houses and PSA and SGC. But honestly I'm using them a lot less. And I'm buying few if any huge items. And when I see a card like a beautiful Cracker Jack PSA 7, for example, all I now think about is how was precisely it altered. And by whom. And I look at it ten more times wondering why a 100 year old card that was in a box of caramel coated candy is obviously whiter than the teeth in my mouth. I end up buying something on eBay for $125 and I don't lay in bed at night wondering if I was ripped off. And while I can imagine sending in something to get graded, most of the time I think about for a bit and the mood passes, and I just say fk it. Takes forever to get my order processed. So while, yes, most of continue to use these places, I'm guessing I am not the only one whose bidding habits have changed dramatically in the last 9 or so months.

I don't want to spend $20,000 on a card only to have someone expose it as doctored on the board a week later.

[hcv123]

System going down, near the end of the auction, for whatever reason . . . .

Seems to be something we have now seen with most of the major AHs in the last year. Very odd.

If I was the leading bidder on a high priced item and someone then proceeded to bid in extended, extended hours, moving my bid up higher after they had days to do so . . . I'd think long and hard about whether to honor my commitment. Is there boiler plate language in the terms of auction basically saying "you still need to honor you commitment to pay regardless of what crazy things goes wrong with the closing of the auction regardless of how ridiculous it is. . . ." I'm sure there is. If I thought something potentially fraudulent was going on my response may well I'm withdrawing my bid. If that's not acceptable perhaps my second response would be let's litigate it, and I'll need to see all your documents (including emails) as to exactly what went wrong and why so I understand what reasonable precautions you took before and during the problem to protect me a customer. Maybe then I'll make a decision as to how I want to proceed.

And I'm not suggesting that any of these incidents were problematic. I have no proof of that. But as a customer of all of them this is alarming. Particularly where the AH and their employees can bid on an item.

I was the winning bidder on a lot and had reached my limit - when I saw I was losing it, I bid on and won a different lot. The next morning I had an invoice for 2 lots (the first one at my last bid that had been outbid!). I called the auction house and refused to pay for the first lot - they let it go and the lot showed up in their next auction - the auction company - Mastro!

[forceplay sport]

here is the answer to this DONT BID !

[Stampsfan]

Yes, folks like me and you will continue using the auction houses and PSA and SGC. But honestly I'm using them a lot less. And I'm buying few if any huge items. And when I see a card like a beautiful Cracker Jack PSA 7, for example, all I now think about is how was precisely it altered. And by whom. And I look at it ten more times wondering why a 100 year old card that was in a box of caramel coated candy is obviously whiter than the teeth in my mouth. I end up buying something on eBay for $125 and I don't lay in bed at night wondering if I was ripped off. And while I can imagine sending in something to get graded, most of the time I think about for a bit and the mood passes, and I just say fk it. Takes forever to get my order processed. So while, yes, most of continue to use these places, I'm guessing I am not the only one whose bidding habits have changed dramatically in the last 9 or so months.

I don't want to spend $20,000 on a card only to have someone expose it as doctored on the board a week later.

+1
Well said.
I am not grading any cards, and I am not buying near what I was 6-12 months ago.

[AGuinness]

I think any discussion of paying money for pieces of cardboard likely falls into the very overused "first world problems" canard, regardless of auction irregularities.

Perhaps it's only overused because collectors have conniptions over a lot of small stuff, in addition to the actual problems within the hobby.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

System going down, near the end of the auction, for whatever reason . . . .

Seems to be something we have now seen with most of the major AHs in the last year. Very odd.

If I was the leading bidder on a high priced item and someone then proceeded to bid in extended, extended hours, moving my bid up higher after they had days to do so . . . I'd think long and hard about whether to honor my commitment. Is there boiler plate language in the terms of auction basically saying "you still need to honor you commitment to pay regardless of what crazy things goes wrong with the closing of the auction regardless of how ridiculous it is. . . ." I'm sure there is. If I thought something potentially fraudulent was going on my response may well I'm withdrawing my bid. If that's not acceptable perhaps my second response would be let's litigate it, and I'll need to see all your documents (including emails) as to exactly what went wrong and why so I understand what reasonable precautions you took before and during the problem to protect me a customer. Maybe then I'll make a decision as to how I want to proceed.

And I'm not suggesting that any of these incidents were problematic. I have no proof of that. But as a customer of all of them this is alarming. Particularly where the AH and their employees can bid on an item.

Legally you can ALWAYS retract a bid up until the time the item is declared sold

[ValKehl]

Yes, folks like me and you will continue using the auction houses and PSA and SGC. But honestly I'm using them a lot less. And I'm buying few if any huge items. And when I see a card like a beautiful Cracker Jack PSA 7, for example, all I now think about is how was precisely it altered. And by whom. And I look at it ten more times wondering why a 100 year old card that was in a box of caramel coated candy is obviously whiter than the teeth in my mouth. I end up buying something on eBay for $125 and I don't lay in bed at night wondering if I was ripped off. And while I can imagine sending in something to get graded, most of the time I think about for a bit and the mood passes, and I just say fk it. Takes forever to get my order processed. So while, yes, most of continue to use these places, I'm guessing I am not the only one whose bidding habits have changed dramatically in the last 9 or so months.

I don't want to spend $20,000 on a card only to have someone expose it as doctored on the board a week later.

Steve, I get your point, but I believe you picked an erroneous example. It is my understanding that the 1914 CJ cards were only distributed in boxes of CJ, whereas the 1915 CJ cards were also available as a complete set via mail order, as stated on the backs of the 1915 cards. Hence, legitimate 1915 CJ cards that are "whiter than the teeth in my mouth" are frequently seen. Here are the backs of both of my CJ WaJos (both of mine came out of CJ boxes), but you can see the mail-in offer on the 1915 example.

[oldjudge]

Legally you can ALWAYS retract a bid up until the time the item is declared sold

Scott-I don’t believe you are right. You must accept Goldin’s terms and conditions before bidding. The following statement is in these terms:

“Placing a bid is a legal contract. Once a bid is placed, you cannot retract it. ”

Since you have already contractually agreed to this you cannot retract a bid, once placed, without the approval of the auction house.

[Snapolit1]

Steve, I get your point, but I believe you picked an erroneous example. It is my understanding that the 1914 CJ cards were only distributed in boxes of CJ, whereas the 1915 CJ cards were also available as a complete set via mail order, as stated on the backs of the 1915 cards. Hence, legitimate 1915 CJ cards that are "whiter than the teeth in my mouth" are frequently seen. Here are the backs of both of my CJ WaJos (both of mine came out of CJ boxes), but you can see the mail-in offer on the 1915 example.

Thanks! Bad example indeed.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Scott-I don’t believe you are right. You must accept Goldin’s terms and conditions before bidding. The following statement is in these terms:

“Placing a bid is a legal contract. Once a bid is placed, you cannot retract it. ”

Since you have already contractually agreed to this you cannot retract a bid, once placed, without the approval of the auction house.

I have this discussion periodically on here. It is a UCC right. You can't sign away your UCC rights. They can say whatever they want. They can refuse your bid but they can't refuse your retraction once they accept your bid.

[RedsFan1941]

you are wrong. you continue to apply the rules of live local auctions to online auctions. apples and oranges. i need a license to conduct a live auction. as long as I pay bob freedman his fee for software I can be up and running tomorrow with an online auction. I would think you would know better.

[steve B]

Sounds like a story their state licensing board would like to know.

I'm not sure how NY requires things.

Apparently they have the online bids available on one computer and someone bids on behalf of the online bidders. And the winning bids and bidders are tracked on a different machine.

All the local places I've been to (Mass) do things the same way, but with the addition of a hardcopy listing of the online and left bids, and another hardcopy of the winning bids. Even the antique auction that didn't appear to have lot numbers, but "lot" numbers that I think were numbered consigner Ids. I think they also recorded the auctioneer in the event there was a problem with an item or with how it was described.

[glynparson]

The problem with the internet is it gives every moron a voice.