Opinion on these recently bought low grade Ruth and Gehrig Goudey - Real or Fake [Archive]

Leon

09-15-2019, 07:22 AM

They are taped into a scrapbook and they look evenly worn so was just curious if anyone had opinions. Also got a couple Waners and Lefty Grove and a few others. Any opinions very much welcome...

366039

366040

366041

I think i saw those listed. I don't care for the darker borders.....Not a good sign. Plus the near perfect centering in the Ruths, another not good look. Personally, I would run the other way on them though without better scans I am not 100%....

kevinlenane

09-15-2019, 07:30 AM

Yeah - I guess on the other side they are taped into
A scrapbook with items from the 60s - and they are certainly old reprints if they are them. Anybody else have thoughts? I thought the darker borders were a good sign but I'm definitely a novice. I can definitely back out of the deal so I'd love to hear any additional opinions.

kevinlenane

09-15-2019, 07:38 AM

Other pics included in the scrap book

366042

366043

366044

366045

366046

366047

366048

366049

2dueces

09-15-2019, 07:51 AM

The commons may be ok but I don’t like the Gehrig. Can’t comment on the Ruth’s.

kevinlenane

09-15-2019, 08:01 AM

There is just one Ruth - the pics themselves are a bit dark - here is the best imagery I could gather on the Ruth and Gehrig... Are period reproduction/fakes from the 1970s common?

366050

366051

Leon

09-15-2019, 08:05 AM

Just sayin, though the borders should be a shade darker than pure white. That Ruth just looks too dark to me. That along with near perfect centering give me great pause. These borders are darker than a pure white but not like the ones in the photos.. And I agree with Joe too, the colors on the Gehrig look off....
(I see there is only 1 Ruth, with 2 pics)

http://luckeycards.com/r319rutha.jpg

kevinlenane

09-15-2019, 08:13 AM

Yeah i just cant tell if its the tape thats making them darker - there is just a single ruth with that top corner lopped off. The borders are def off left to right it lt looks like a bit of a diamond cut on the bottom. I should listen to you two and bail on it - part of me wants to find out for myself but boy is that going to be expensive. Thank you both - i feel like im trying to convince myself my arm isnt broken as my doctor is putting a cast on...Here are the best version of the issues i can produce...

366054

366055

Republicaninmass

09-15-2019, 08:27 AM

Hey dude, this "scrapbook" has sold and has been listed 3 times prior for 1k to 1500. Did you really think for 5500 it "could be real" when others for the past few months have passed on it?

Greedy makes for a hungry puppy

CobbSpikedMe

09-15-2019, 08:27 AM

I'm going to go against the grain and say the Ruth looks good to me. It's being held down with old tape and all the other commons look good. I just don't see the Ruth being fake in that bunch.

kevinlenane

09-15-2019, 08:38 AM

what about the Gehrig dont you like? Thanks again

kevinlenane

09-15-2019, 08:40 AM

Republicaninmass - i had no idea that it had been posted and resold - I didnt buy it for 5500 - i made an offer for 800 but if thats true about it being posted and resold than I can certainly back away from it...thanks

kevinlenane

09-15-2019, 08:49 AM

I cant find any record of the sales - can you point me in the right direction? Honestly i saw it for the first time this morning.

Hey dude, this "scrapbook" has sold and has been listed 3 times prior for 1k to 1500. Did you really think for 5500 it "could be real" when others for the past few months have passed on it?

Greedy makes for a hungry puppy

CobbSpikedMe

09-15-2019, 08:50 AM

I didn't know it was sold and resold several times prior either. That's not a good look I must admit.

drcy

09-15-2019, 08:52 AM

I don't offer an opinion other than the tape doesn't look terribly old.

kevinlenane

09-15-2019, 09:14 AM

Agreed on the reselling - i just cant find any record of it being discussed or bought or sold - though it was stated with some conviction so its giving me pause...

kevinlenane

09-15-2019, 04:39 PM

366101

Leon

09-15-2019, 05:19 PM

I personally wouldn't gamble on it. I am not 100% but it (the Ruth) just doesn't look right. It could be the scan. Not sure about the back of the Gehrig either. If there is any really white looking paper, where there is damage, that is a yellow flag.

Yeah i just cant tell if its the tape thats making them darker - there is just a single ruth with that top corner lopped off. The borders are def off left to right it lt looks like a bit of a diamond cut on the bottom. I should listen to you two and bail on it - part of me wants to find out for myself but boy is that going to be expensive. Thank you both - i feel like im trying to convince myself my arm isnt broken as my doctor is putting a cast on...Here are the best version of the issues i can produce...

366054

366055

bigfanNY

09-15-2019, 08:54 PM

I dont like cardboard of the gehrig...

Rickyy

09-16-2019, 12:40 AM

The back of the Gehrig looks too clean... I've owned a poor one and it should look more faded.

Ricky Y

brob28

09-16-2019, 06:17 AM

brob28

09-16-2019, 06:30 AM

Here's a legit Gehrig for comparisson.

bobbyw8469

09-16-2019, 01:24 PM

I saw the listing and didn't like the look of the Ruth or Gehrig. I agree with a previous post that some cards look legit, but not the R or G. It's a bit difficult to see due to the angle of the pictures.

Agreed...some are probably legit. However, your two money cards are both fake, and that is what he is basing his high pricing on. At MOST it is worth around $100-$200 as a novelty, and hoping you can remove the cards from the pages. But don't overpay based on the Ruth and Gehrig, or you are going to lose your money and not be very happy.

JeremyW

09-16-2019, 02:23 PM

I'm in the minority here, but I think the cards are real, even the Ruth & Gehrig. With the tape & chunk missing from the Ruth I would probably pass at $800.

kevinlenane

09-16-2019, 07:28 PM

Thank you all for your help - it was more of a pain to back out of the offer then to just eat the 800. I'll send them into SGV and let everyone know - they were apparently glued one place peeled up and taped back down - I agree the Gehrig paper looks white but it's possible it was mounted for a very long time which may have led to less yellowing. Im expecting to get burned but its been fun to hear all the opinions. There are some other cards pasted in the book that aren't shown so who knows what happens - they arrive on Thursday so I should get my reprints verified in a couple weeks :)

Exhibitman

09-17-2019, 11:48 AM

I hope you get the last laugh.

ALR-bishop

09-17-2019, 11:56 AM

Good luck Kevin

Republicaninmass

09-17-2019, 12:36 PM

My guess

The real ones were taped and glued then reglued with the reprints .

They say I'm a cynic

kevinlenane

09-18-2019, 02:39 PM

I got them - im thinking they aren't real but he kind of said he'd take a return if they weren't.:) We'll see. One odd thing, some of the Goudey's have an odd almost 3d look to them when I look at them under a magnification. Keep in mind the Gehrig still has tape so those edges look glossier than they are...

366392

366393

366394

Some 1200 DPI magnification next to some online guidance

366395

366391

kevinlenane

09-18-2019, 04:31 PM

FYI The top left image in the last two photos is the verified real example online..

brianp-beme

09-18-2019, 04:47 PM

The back of the Gehrig looks too clean... I've owned a poor one and it should look more faded.

Ricky Y

Saw the recent posts and I am still not quite sure...always better to see in person. Just a point though, cards that have been taped or glued into scrapbooks, etc., quite often have cleaner than normal backs. I assume this is partially because the backs were not exposed to the elements like their free as a bird brothers.

Brian

Rickyy

09-18-2019, 04:54 PM

Saw the recent posts and I am still not quite sure...always better to see in person. Just a point though, cards that have been taped or glued into scrapbooks, etc., quite often have cleaner than normal backs. I assume this is partially because the backs were not exposed to the elements like their free as a bird brothers.

Brian

true Brian good points. I have seen cards ripped out where there were fades around the outer edges...and relatively unscathed in the middle..

Ricky Y

kevinlenane

09-18-2019, 07:12 PM

Regardless its been super fun going through this - i will also say this - Ive been able to verify the my "wifes' uncle" thing. There is a very old man that died who has the same last name and was born in that area - and there are pictures of him at Guaducanal in this scrapbook (which im going to try to send back) There are a bunch of photos of him from the 30s and newspaper articles from the era. So at the very least - I know this seller isnt trying to scam anyone. They could be super old reprints or the real deal - they are all beat up but i dont really mind it. Here are two more interesting factors that i noticed - though im not totally sure what they mean:

1. You can see the red goudey overprint through the Gehrig back
2. They were not printed with any kind of modern printer (no dot matrix just the color on card texture
3. The stamp looks like it was done differently and has no discernable break pattern at 1200 DPI on both the Gehrig and Ruth.

Sorry to drag this out - but im having so much fun doing my Forensic Files (which incidentally I used to work on...)

366406

366407

366408

steve B

09-20-2019, 01:41 PM

No dot pattern or blockiness in the 1933 logo and that it goes over the background is a good sign. I think they're real.

1880nonsports

09-21-2019, 10:38 AM

but ever since I opened the thread I've believed them all to be real. Having them in hand would of course seal the deal.....

no guarantees whether written or implied.

Exhibitman

09-21-2019, 05:51 PM

FWIW, an absolutely destroyed SGC A ruth is on ebay now and selling at auction for several hundred dollars, so if the cards are genuine you done good.

Leon

09-24-2019, 09:50 AM

I still don't like the color of the borders on the Ruth, or the coloring on the Gehrig, but hopefully I am wrong. As I said before, I am not 100% either way. These scans help and I am closer to them being legit...just not sure.

Regardless its been super fun going through this - i will also say this - Ive been able to verify the my "wifes' uncle" thing. There is a very old man that died who has the same last name and was born in that area - and there are pictures of him at Guaducanal in this scrapbook (which im going to try to send back) There are a bunch of photos of him from the 30s and newspaper articles from the era. So at the very least - I know this seller isnt trying to scam anyone. They could be super old reprints or the real deal - they are all beat up but i dont really mind it. Here are two more interesting factors that i noticed - though im not totally sure what they mean:

1. You can see the red goudey overprint through the Gehrig back
2. They were not printed with any kind of modern printer (no dot matrix just the color on card texture
3. The stamp looks like it was done differently and has no discernable break pattern at 1200 DPI on both the Gehrig and Ruth.

Sorry to drag this out - but im having so much fun doing my Forensic Files (which incidentally I used to work on...)

366406

366407

366408

kevinlenane

09-24-2019, 11:40 AM

Thanks again - they are off to the sgc along w a 1941 PB DiMaggio - I'll keep everyone posted...

bobbyw8469

09-24-2019, 11:41 AM

Thanks again - they are off to the sgc along w a 1941 PB DiMaggio - I'll keep everyone posted...

Good luck.

kevinlenane

10-29-2019, 11:21 AM

Shockingly enough the scrapbook Ruth and the Gehrig graded Authentic from SGC. Waiting on them in the mail but wanted to provide that update :)

In the same submission i wound up with an 8 on a nu-Card Ernie Davis rookie I pulled out of a fresh 1961 pack and a 1.5 on 41 PB DiMaggio I got cheaply in a suspect raw "DiMaggio family" lot w Dom and Vince. Overall a positive result on my two raw/scrapbook gambles...

Leon

10-29-2019, 11:27 AM

Congrats., Glad my hesitancy was incorrect.

Shockingly enough the scrapbook Ruth and the Gehrig graded Authentic from SGC. Waiting on them in the mail but wanted to provide that update :)

In the same submission i wound up with an 8 on a nu-Card Ernie Davis rookie I pulled out of a fresh 1961 pack and a 1.5 on 41 PB DiMaggio I got cheaply in a suspect raw "DiMaggio family" lot w Dom and Vince. Overall a positive result on my two raw/scrapbook gambles...

kevinlenane

10-29-2019, 11:31 AM

Thanks for all your help - they are still pretty beat up - not sure exactly what I'll do with them but I have grown kind of attached given the inordinate around of time I've spent examining them...

JeremyW

10-29-2019, 01:39 PM

Congrats. Be sure to post some scans when you get them back.

wondo

10-29-2019, 01:51 PM

Congrats - my faith in humanity is restored!

bnorth

10-29-2019, 04:02 PM

Congrats. Be sure to post some scans when you get them back.

+1 congrats

ullmandds

10-29-2019, 04:05 PM

congrats...great news!

Kingcobb

10-30-2019, 08:10 AM

Very cool Kevin those type of pickup's are rare in these times. Daryl

murphy8276

10-31-2019, 02:50 PM

Interesting that the majority recommended to pass on the counterfeit/reprints, but you ended up buying it anyway and scored! NICE! :D:D:D

todeen

11-01-2019, 10:31 PM

Interesting that the majority recommended to pass on the counterfeit/reprints, but you ended up buying it anyway and scored! NICE! :D:D:D

+1 regardless of the AUTHENTIC tag, lots of collectors would like them for the price you paid. Great grab and way to do the leg work on them.