Another set with year misidentified by both PSA and SGC

[brianp-beme]

Like my thread on W503, the V89 is another set that the year is likely misidentified by both PSA and SGC as a 1922 instead of 1923 issue. I did not research fully like I did for the W503 set, but as I was checking out Herb Pennock for W503 I came across the image of his V89 card, which he is identified as being a New York Yankee, just like he is on his W530 card. Pennock was traded from the Red Sox to the Yankees on January 30, 1923, and thus this set should at least be identified as a 1923 issue (for example as 1922-23), or perhaps if someone were to do more research they could narrow it down to just 1923 instead...I am currently tired.

Brian (card not mine, tiredness all mine)

[Leon]

Hey Brian
Our friends at OldCardboard.com are on top of it.

1923 V89 Wm. Paterson

Year(s) Published: 1923
ACC Designation: V89
Set Name: William Paterson
Card Size (inches): 2 x 3-1/4
Number of Cards in Set: 50
Est. Value (common; VG): $70

Produced by Wm. Paterson, Limited of Brantford, Canada
Numbered set of 50 with wide white border and blank backs
Found in both sepia and black and white printings
Card number, player and team printed at bottom
Date of issue not certain; some checklists say 1922"


Like my thread on W503, the V89 is another set that the year is likely misidentified by both PSA and SGC as a 1922 instead of 1923 issue. I did not research fully like I did for the W503 set, but as I was checking out Herb Pennock for W503 I came across the image of his V89 card, which he is identified as being a New York Yankee, just like he is on his W530 card. Pennock was traded from the Red Sox to the Yankees on January 30, 1923, and thus this set should at least be identified as a 1923 issue (for example as 1922-23), or perhaps if someone were to do more research they could narrow it down to just 1923 instead...I am currently tired.

Brian (card not mine, tiredness all mine)

[BigBeerGut]

Cool! You guys are awesum pulling that sort of detailed info out of the cobwebs nice work!
V just means canadien I guess?

[brianp-beme]

V just means canadien I guess?

V is the ACC (American Card Catalog) designation for Canadian issues.

Brian

[nolemmings]

I am a bit surprised at the lack of accurate information on a number of pre-war sets, and it's not coming from just the TPGs, who often rely on price guides and checklists created long ago. It hasn't been that many years since m101s were found to be from 1916 only--not from 1915, and that E135s were issued in 1917, not 1916. You can still find old slabs with the wrong dates. R315 has been changed from a 1928 issue date and other sets have been at least questioned as well. With all of the research tools available to collectors these days, it seems that almost all card issues could be pinned down.

For me, I still wonder why there isn't better information on the distribution of Sweet Caporal P2 pins and PX7 domino disks. Were these inserted in packs or as point of purchase items? Assuming the former, were they available in the same packs as both T205 and T206 or were there product differences, e.g. a different number of cigarettes in the pack, different packaging, etc.? Were they available only regionally for some reason or just as widely distributed as the tobacco cards? It just seems to me that with the very large number of advanced T206 collectors and the research already devoted to everything T206, there would be more info on exactly how someone might have known back in the day that the smokes they were buying contained a baseball card, non-sport card, disk or pin. This may have been discussed, as I do not scour the T206 threads, but I don't recall seeing much elaboration.

[Leon]

All of these are good points, Todd.

My peeve moving forward is the lack of knowledge by the TPG's to know what is and what isn't hand cut vintage. It drives me a bit crazy daily. W503- not hand cut. W575-1, in my experience, only hand cut when trimmed...and I know there are more. :mad:


I am a bit surprised at the lack of accurate information on a number of pre-war sets, and it's not coming from just the TPGs, who often rely on price guides and checklists created long ago. It hasn't been that many years since m101s were found to be from 1916 only--not from 1915, and that E135s were issued in 1917, not 1916. You can still find old slabs with the wrong dates. R315 has been changed from a 1928 issue date and other sets have been at least questioned as well. With all of the research tools available to collectors these days, it seems that almost all card issues could be pinned down.

For me, I still wonder why there isn't better information on the distribution of Sweet Caporal P2 pins and PX7 domino disks. Were these inserted in packs or as point of purchase items? Assuming the former, were they available in the same packs as both T205 and T206 or were there product differences, e.g. a different number of cigarettes in the pack, different packaging, etc.? Were they available only regionally for some reason or just as widely distributed as the tobacco cards? It just seems to me that with the very large number of advanced T206 collectors and the research already devoted to everything T206, there would be more info on exactly how someone might have known back in the day that the smokes they were buying contained a baseball card, non-sport card, disk or pin. This may have been discussed, as I do not scour the T206 threads, but I don't recall seeing much elaboration.