View Full Version : Ted Williams...ROBBED!
blametony
08-30-2019, 12:47 PM
I am still mystified by the following...
1941 - Ted Williams hits .406 and DOES NOT win the MVP Award.
1942 - Ted Williams win the Triple Crown and DOES NOT win the MVP Award.
1947 - Ted Williams win the Triple Crown and DOES NOT win the MVP Award.
It's simply mind-boggling. In '41 Williams .406 average was the highest since Rogers Hornsby hit .424 in 1924.
When he won the Triple Crown in '47, he became the only the second player to accomplish that feat. Rogers Hornsby being the other.
oldjudge
08-30-2019, 01:01 PM
Oh, thank goodness you are talking about awards. I thought someone stole his frozen head.
pokerplyr80
08-30-2019, 01:10 PM
I remember reading that he wasn't very popular with some of the media, perhaps because of his attitude during interviews or press conferences. Quite a few of them refused to vote for him out of spite. I have no idea if this is true or not, but if it is it makes sense.
Also the guy who won in 41 also did something pretty remarkable, so that one is understandable.
blametony
08-30-2019, 01:17 PM
I remember that he wasn't very popular with some of the media, perhaps because of his attitude during interviews or press conferences. Quite a few of them refused to vote for him out of spite. I have no idea if this is true or not, but if it is it makes sense.
Also the guy who won in 41 also did something pretty remarkable, so that one is understandable.
Agreed the streak is pretty remarkable, but if you look at the numbers, Williams actually had a higher average during the streak. And this is coming from a Yankee fan!
megalimey
08-30-2019, 01:17 PM
not being a nice guy did not help his Cause
a recent quote
"Though he quietly committed countless acts of kindness and generosity, he also railed at sportswriters, cursed and spat at fans, and took out his rage on those closest to him, hurling profanity at his wives and children and ripping phones out of the wall. And in a truly bizarre ending to his life's story, his son had Williams' head and body cryonically frozen, generating a bitter family dispute that played out in the Boston media".
this was back in the day of Real Media nothing held back they took some of his actions towards the media personally and it showed up in their voting ,
But he was one of the best hitters with out a doubt.
perezfan
08-30-2019, 01:19 PM
I remember that he wasn't very popular with some of the media, perhaps because of his attitude during interviews or press conferences. Quite a few of them refused to vote for him out of spite. I have no idea if this is true or not, but if it is it makes sense.
Also the guy who won in 41 also did something pretty remarkable, so that one is understandable.
This is absolutely correct. The media did not like Ted. And he wasn't crazy about them either. I believe the bad relationships did result in Ted being snubbed in some ways. Joe D. was obviously stellar in '41, and (as is so often the case) it didn't hurt that he played in NY.
blametony
08-30-2019, 01:22 PM
It's actually a shame that personality factors so much into the MVP and Hall of Fame voting. In my opinion it cheapens the awards tremendously. The way people like Albert Belle have been robbed is completely unfair. Being a "nice guy" or being polite should not be a criteria for them winning award in the sport they play.
frankbmd
08-30-2019, 01:31 PM
Oh, thank goodness you are talking about awards. I thought someone stole his frozen head.
I thought likewise
“Off with his head!”
steve B
08-30-2019, 02:09 PM
Oh, thank goodness you are talking about awards. I thought someone stole his frozen head.
Portions of which will be in the Pannini "cryo gems" insert set....
Robbie
08-30-2019, 02:34 PM
No ground-breaking thought here... but could Ted Williams be the most underrated or under-appreciated player of all-time?
How many times has it been brought up that if not for his loss of time in baseball to serve our Country, he would have left the game with more home runs than Ruth, and better numbers than almost any other player that collectors hold in higher esteem? Ruth, Cobb, Hornsby, Gehrig...
And who talks about these guy's defense either?
Williams changed the game... in a different way than Ruth, but he absolutely did. He made a science out of hitting. He was the prototype of all the analysis of hitting you see today... the way batters and pitchers look at each other for every game. And all that Amazon AWS nonsense you see on every pitch today on TV... was going on in Ted Williams head 80 years ago!
Maybe that's why his son froze it??? :rolleyes::eek::confused: Bad joke... sorry.
I am still mystified by the following...
1941 - Ted Williams hits .406 and DOES NOT win the MVP Award.
1942 - Ted Williams win the Triple Crown and DOES NOT win the MVP Award.
1947 - Ted Williams win the Triple Crown and DOES NOT win the MVP Award.
It's simply mind-boggling. In '41 Williams .406 average was the highest since Rogers Hornsby hit .424 in 1924.
When he won the Triple Crown in '47, he became the only the second player to accomplish that feat. Rogers Hornsby being the other.
SteveMitchell
08-30-2019, 02:41 PM
The ultimate dissing of Ted Williams came by way of the BBWAA branch of the Fourth Estate in Ted's 1966 Hall of Fame results: 93.4%. Back in the good old days of 1966, such a number was not good enough to round up to a 94% and, therefore, was merely a "high B" in terms of letter grade. Imagine, the Baseball Writers thought so little of The Greatest Hitter of His Time that they gave him a "B" ranking!
I am still mystified by the following...
1941 - Ted Williams hits .406 and DOES NOT win the MVP Award.
1942 - Ted Williams win the Triple Crown and DOES NOT win the MVP Award.
1947 - Ted Williams win the Triple Crown and DOES NOT win the MVP Award.
It's simply mind-boggling. In '41 Williams .406 average was the highest since Rogers Hornsby hit .424 in 1924.
When he won the Triple Crown in '47, he became the only the second player to accomplish that feat. Rogers Hornsby being the other.
rats60
08-30-2019, 03:38 PM
I am still mystified by the following...
1941 - Ted Williams hits .406 and DOES NOT win the MVP Award.
1942 - Ted Williams win the Triple Crown and DOES NOT win the MVP Award.
1947 - Ted Williams win the Triple Crown and DOES NOT win the MVP Award.
It's simply mind-boggling. In '41 Williams .406 average was the highest since Rogers Hornsby hit .424 in 1924.
When he won the Triple Crown in '47, he became the only the second player to accomplish that feat. Rogers Hornsby being the other.
The Yankees won the AL all 3 of those years and the MVP was given to a Yankee. The only year Ted's Red Sox finished 1st, he won the MVP.
Peter_Spaeth
08-30-2019, 03:39 PM
If Richard Ben Cramer's DiMaggio biography is to be believed, Joe was worse as a person -- much worse in many ways -- than Ted.
yanks4
08-30-2019, 04:23 PM
If you get a chance watch the HBO special on Williams on YouTube......this guy was an exceptional man and ballplayer....
yanks4
08-30-2019, 04:28 PM
Very well done....
Can you imagine if Ted didn't miss almost 5 seasons serving in the military? He probably would have averaged about 35HR, 110RBIs, 120Runs and 180Hits a season for that time. Let's just say it was 4.5 seasons missed that would put his lifetime totals at 678HR, 2334RBIs, 2338Runs and 3464Hits (probably almost 700 doubles). That would have put him in the all time lead for RBIs and Runs, plus also be a member of the 3000 hit club. To think that three of those years was between his triple crown seasons in 1942 and 1947 is mind boggling when you consider what he probably could have done.
Oh, thank goodness you are talking about awards. I thought someone stole his frozen head.
Still chuckling about that post...:p
blametony
08-30-2019, 05:32 PM
I agree about the 5 missed years. If you look at it objectively, those years were in his prime. I figure conservatively that if he had those years in MLB, he would have been top 3 in all-time home runs to go along with his other achievements. Again, as a Yankee fan it pains me to admit it, but Teddy Ballgame may have been the greatest hitter in the history of Major League Baseball.
Can you imagine if Ted didn't miss almost 5 seasons serving in the military? He probably would have averaged about 35HR, 110RBIs, 120Runs and 180Hits a season for that time. Let's just say it was 4.5 seasons missed that would put his lifetime totals at 678HR, 2334RBIs, 2338Runs and 3464Hits (probably almost 700 doubles). That would have put him in the all time lead for RBIs and Runs, plus also be a member of the 3000 hit club. To think that three of those years was between his triple crown seasons in 1942 and 1947 is mind boggling when you consider what he probably could have done.
If those were his totals at the end of 1960, I’m sure he comes back for 1961/1962 as well. The numbers he put up in his last season (29 HR, .316/.451/.645) guys in their prime won’t come close to, and he put them up playing 113 games for a seventh place team.
A2000
08-30-2019, 05:43 PM
Boston finishing 17 games behind the Yankees in 1941 probably didn't help his MVP cause.
nsaddict
08-30-2019, 07:02 PM
I’m certainly in the camp that Ted was short changed in those 3 years. The numbers stand out for sure. By the voting mindset, a player on a last place team could never get the nod regardless of stats? But the biggest head scratcher is the 1934 voting. Gehrig has a monster year and finished 5th in voting, outrageous!
tedzan
08-30-2019, 07:30 PM
Hi Tony
Back in the 1980's, I had several conversations with Ted while meeting him in Cooperstown. He was one of the friendliest BB players I ever met. These
were not short conversations, either. Ted loved to talk BB with you.
I'm a Yankees fan, too. My nearby (2 blocks away) neighbor when I young was Phil Rizzuto. A really great guy, everyone in the neighborhood loved him.
I will never forget Ted's response to me when I told him...."I would root for you to hit a HR into the upper Right Field stands at Yankee Stadium".
He replied…."I don't understand, you say you're a Yankees fan."
I responded with...."I knew your HR's wouldn't really matter, because at the end of the season, I knew the Yankees would win".
Ted cracked up laughing. Then he turned serious, and said...."If Rizzuto played for the Red Sox back then, we would have been the A.L. Champions".
Ted was quite serious when he said that to me. What I understood from that was that Rizzuto was a great Lead-Off batter who would Hit, Bunt, Walk,
etc. to get on base. Then he would eventually score 3 times at of 4.
TED Z
T206 Reference (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=237816)
.
Nunzio11
08-30-2019, 07:45 PM
A man has to have goals — for a day, for a lifetime — and that was mine, to have people say, "There goes Ted Williams, the greatest hitter who ever lived."
Whatever type of person he was, Ted lived up to his goals. Almost 60 years after retirement and 18 years after his death he’s still towards the very top of the discussion.
Jim65
08-31-2019, 04:02 AM
"There goes Ted Williams, the greatest hitter who ever lived"
He was only off by one, Babe Ruth is the greatest hitter who ever lived
GeoPoto
08-31-2019, 04:36 AM
If all of Ted Williams’ 521 home runs and 525 doubles were outs, he would still have a higher OBP than Henry Aaron.
maniac_73
08-31-2019, 08:57 AM
Hi Tony
Back in the 1980's, I had several conversations with Ted while meeting him in Cooperstown. He was one of the friendliest BB players I ever met. These
were not short conversations, either. Ted loved to talk BB with you.
I'm a Yankees fan, too. My nearby (2 blocks away) neighbor when I young was Phil Rizzuto. A really great guy, everyone in the neighborhood loved him.
I will never forget Ted's response to me when I told him...."I would root for you to hit a HR into the upper Right Field stands at Yankee Stadium".
He replied…."I don't understand, you say you're a Yankees fan."
I responded with...."I knew your HR's wouldn't really matter, because at the end of the season, I knew the Yankees would win".
Ted cracked up laughing. Then he turned serious, and said...."If Rizzuto played for the Red Sox back then, we would have been the A.L. Champions".
Ted was quite serious when he said that to me. What I understood from that was that Rizzuto was a great Lead-Off batter who would Hit, Bunt, Walk,
etc. to get on base. Then he would eventually score 3 times at of 4.
TED Z
T206 Reference (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=237816)
.
What a wonderful story thanks for sharing!
Case12
08-31-2019, 09:15 AM
He was not on a winning team. Would have made a huge difference.
TUM301
08-31-2019, 09:40 AM
It was said, "Ted Williams led the life John Wayne wished he had". As far as hitters go it`s Ted or Babe, either or, for me.
mainemule
08-31-2019, 10:38 AM
He was not on a winning team. Would have made a huge difference.
Ted's teams were not as good as Joe D.s or Mickey M.'s Yankees. While Ted had some very good teammates (Doerr, D Dimaggio) they were out matched by the Yanks.
Trout has won MVPs on non-winning teams. Nice guy vs. not-so-nice guy (as viewed by media voters).
samosa4u
08-31-2019, 10:45 AM
Does anyone here remember exactly what Willie Mays said about Ted? If I can remember correctly, he said how all the travelling wore him down as a player and how Ted didn't have to go through any of that. Mays had to fly to Philadelphia, Houston, back to Cali, and then to New York, etc. He said it nearly killed him.
russkcpa
08-31-2019, 05:51 PM
I'll take .406 over a 56 game hitting streak for my MVP
If only Ted had a decent relationship with the writers maybe he would have had 4 MVP's. He was so much better in his later years with the media. It's a shame. Wasn't he also criticized for playing the 1942 season instead of going into the service ? Something about caring for his mother....however they were estranged and the media didn't like that. What numbers he would have put up had he not missed those 5 seasons.
Speaking of missing seasons imagine the numbers Bob Feller would have put up if not missing 4 seasons. He had 24 wins in'39 27 wins in '40 25 wins in '41 Then he misses 42-43-44 and almost all of 45 then wins 26 in '46 and 20 in '47 Ends with 266 wins lifetime. Not to mention he was first in line to volunteer for military service. A true hero in my eyes.
JRO$!(
08-31-2019, 06:26 PM
Oh, thank goodness you are talking about awards. I thought someone stole his frozen head.
First thought that popped in my head, someone absconded with teddys
headsicle? :eek::D Awesome...
+1 I thought about the head being stolen too when I first saw the subject of the thread.
What is a thread without a card?
http://luckeycards.com/williams.jpg
First thought that popped in my head, someone absconded with teddys
headsicle? :eek::D Awesome...
jakebeckleyoldeagleeye
09-03-2019, 03:33 PM
No ground-breaking thought here... but could Ted Williams be the most underrated or under-appreciated player of all-time?
How many times has it been brought up that if not for his loss of time in baseball to serve our Country, he would have left the game with more home runs than Ruth, and better numbers than almost any other player that collectors hold in higher esteem? Ruth, Cobb, Hornsby, Gehrig...
And who talks about these guy's defense either?
Williams changed the game... in a different way than Ruth, but he absolutely did. He made a science out of hitting. He was the prototype of all the analysis of hitting you see today... the way batters and pitchers look at each other for every game. And all that Amazon AWS nonsense you see on every pitch today on TV... was going on in Ted Williams head 80 years ago!
Maybe that's why his son froze it??? :rolleyes::eek::confused: Bad joke... sorry.
I think Stan Musial is the most unappreciated player off all-time because the guy went to the ballpark had 1-3 hits went home to his wife and kids and never had a scandal and was happy all the time. Meant him once and he was friendly as your next door neighbor.
Case12
09-04-2019, 08:21 AM
I think Stan Musial is the most unappreciated player off all-time because the guy went to the ballpark had 1-3 hits went home to his wife and kids and never had a scandal and was happy all the time. Meant him once and he was friendly as your next door neighbor.
+1 Agree on Stan.
mouschi
09-04-2019, 09:33 AM
Oh, thank goodness you are talking about awards. I thought someone stole his frozen head.
LOL! That's why I clicked. I had visions of some creepy collector guy having stolen his head to put on display in his private quarters.
Aquarian Sports Cards
09-04-2019, 10:05 AM
Can you imagine if Ted didn't miss almost 5 seasons serving in the military? He probably would have averaged about 35HR, 110RBIs, 120Runs and 180Hits a season for that time. Let's just say it was 4.5 seasons missed that would put his lifetime totals at 678HR, 2334RBIs, 2338Runs and 3464Hits (probably almost 700 doubles). That would have put him in the all time lead for RBIs and Runs, plus also be a member of the 3000 hit club. To think that three of those years was between his triple crown seasons in 1942 and 1947 is mind boggling when you consider what he probably could have done.
How about the fact that his was probably the greatest season by a retiring player ever. .329, 29 HR's 1.096 OPS. Yes he was only playing 2/3 of a season at that point, but who knows how much longer he could've kept hitting. Add in the WWII and Korea years and he might've been motivated to take a run at Ruth and keep playing. How crazy would it have been if a guy who only hit 40 HR's in a season once became the guy to beat the Babe?
jakebeckleyoldeagleeye
09-04-2019, 01:25 PM
After Stan Musial I would say Lou Gehrig. That guy was a RBI machine. If I could have one player in history up with the game on the line and you couldn't walk him #4 is my guy. I can see a line drive down into the right field corner and the winning run scoring. It would have been interesting to have seen his stats if not for the ALS. I bet he would have played during WW 2 and beyond.
JRO$!(
09-05-2019, 04:11 PM
I think Stan Musial is the most unappreciated player off all-time because the guy went to the ballpark had 1-3 hits went home to his wife and kids and never had a scandal and was happy all the time. Meant him once and he was friendly as your next door neighbor.
I was lucky enough as a lad in the 80s to have met both Mr. Williams and Mr.
Musial. They were both very nice and pleasant. I got my old sears & roebuck
Ted model bat auto'd and another time got an N.L. ball signed by Stan. Still have
both of em' and always will! :cool: