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Snapolit1
08-14-2019, 08:34 AM
until something changes.

I'm not going to be the next guy to find out that the PSA 10 he paid $35,000 for was actually a PSA 7 last year and sold somewhere for $900. Nah. Not going there. Not going to be me. And frankly I don't have enough hours or the desire to do an archeological dive every time I want to buy a card.

Leon
08-14-2019, 08:47 AM
Low grade cards are all the rage now....From our BST a few days ago....

http://luckeycards.com/schum.jpg

RedsFan1941
08-14-2019, 08:54 AM
great card leon. as someone in the auto service biz that one really hits home.

frankbmd
08-14-2019, 09:09 AM
Is wheel (read “real”) alignment a necessary precursor to being “well centered”?

After all, linguistically there ain’t much difference between a car doctor and a card doctor.

Snapolit1
08-14-2019, 09:14 AM
Ha, that is indeed an awesome card. Yes, unique and ungraded may be the place to go for piece of mind and some kicks.

I also wonder if the card grading shenanigans won't push up the memorabilia and photo part of the hobby. (Not that I am naive enough to imagine that's without fraud.)

irv
08-14-2019, 09:46 AM
I always, since I rejoined the hobby back in 2016, wanted to have a 8,9 or 10 1952 Topps card just to have one but since this scandal broke that desire is all but gone.

Luckily for me, I guess, I was limited to funds and focused, mainly, on raw cards.

90-95 percent of my cards in my FlickR and Net54 links below are raw and I will most likely keep them that way and will most likely continue purchasing raw cards going forward.

sflayank
08-14-2019, 10:02 AM
thats a really nice schumacher
if anyone has other players let me know

packs
08-14-2019, 10:49 AM
What's your definition of high end?

https://live.staticflickr.com/4531/38844416522_07c091e8ba_z.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/4649/27934463659_b11fc0aee0_z.jpg

MULLINS5
08-14-2019, 11:13 AM
I too am done. Been collecting raw since this mess was discovered and have been having more fun than I've had the past 20 years collecting graded.

The scandal has me honestly feeling like a fool for trusting PSA for as long as I did. I thought I was buying cards that were put under strict grading standards and accepted extremely long turnaround times because of that. I paid their grading prices not just because I thought my cards were put under these standards but ALL OTHERS were as well. I feel cheated (no pun intended Joe) and defrauded. Never, ever again.

bobbyw8469
08-14-2019, 11:20 AM
I too am done. Been collecting raw since this mess was discovered and have been having more fun than I've had the past 20 years collecting graded.

The scandal has me honestly feeling like a fool for trusting PSA for as long as I did. I thought I was buying cards that were put under strict grading standards and accepted extremely long turnaround times because of that. I paid their grading prices not just because I thought my cards were put under these standards but ALL OTHERS were as well. I feel cheated (no pun intended Joe) and defrauded. Never, ever again.

What amazes me Patrick is that they missed COLOR TOUCH!!! There was a Clemente rookie that Moser actually applied green to the card!!! How in the hell was that missed!?!?!?!?! Not to mention all the trimming.

RedsFan1941
08-14-2019, 11:40 AM
I stand with the OP. in fact, I will not throw another pitch for the astros until they meet my salary demands.

Johnny630
08-14-2019, 11:42 AM
[QUOTE=bobbyw8469;1908344]What amazes me Patrick is that they missed COLOR TOUCH!!! There was a Clemente rookie that Moser actually applied green to the card!!! How in the hell was that missed!?!?!?!?! Not to mention all the trimming.[/QUOTE

Cheats, Frauds, Card Doctors, manipulators, And Scams I was basically told to except all this it happens in every industry by another poster on a different thread. Check it out I didn’t know how to respond to it, I believe it was PW cc alive and doing well. So yeah I guess that’s the majority’s opinion on it it, sure as hell isn’t mine. Sucked all the fun out of this.

Ronnie73
08-14-2019, 11:46 AM
I've always preferred a 5 dollar 1952 Topps over a 5 thousand dollar card of the same exact thing.

defender100
08-14-2019, 11:54 AM
What amazes me Patrick is that they missed COLOR TOUCH!!! There was a Clemente rookie that Moser actually applied green to the card!!! How in the hell was that missed!?!?!?!?! Not to mention all the trimming.

The real question is not how they missed it but did they miss it? Stupidity is not as bad as duplicity, even if the results are the same.

Peter_Spaeth
08-14-2019, 12:19 PM
The real question is not how they missed it but did they miss it? Stupidity is not as bad as duplicity, even if the results are the same.

At this point, I truly wonder if I or some other ordinary collector had sent all these altered cards in, and not PWCC, whether they would have graded. And on another front I am highly skeptical that I or some other ordinary collector would get anywhere near the number of PSA 10s some of these high volume insiders seem to pull.

Exhibitman
08-14-2019, 12:26 PM
I too am done. Been collecting raw since this mess was discovered and have been having more fun than I've had the past 20 years collecting graded.



This. A hobby is supposed to be fun. When crime and money suck the fun out of it, time to re-evaluate. I barely looked at a slabbed card at the National this year and it was so much fun to rely on my own assessments, not mention a hell of a lot easier to bring home my cards in mylar sleeves rather than slabs. You almost forget how nice a 33 Goudey looks in hand and not separated from you by a layer of plastic.

Johnny630
08-14-2019, 12:27 PM
[QUOTE=Peter_Spaeth;1908364]At this point, I truly wonder if I or some other ordinary collector had sent all these altered cards in, and not PWCC, whether they would have graded. And on another front I am highly skeptical that I or some other ordinary collector would get anywhere near the number of PSA 10s some of these high volume insiders seem to pull.[/QUOTE

Agree me too Corruption On Almost Every Level.......I've come to the conclusion, due to the Non PWCC numbers, that the buyers do not care. It's PSA all the way. You can only talk to a brick wall so long.....I don't see this negatively impacting sales.

perezfan
08-14-2019, 12:32 PM
At this point, I truly wonder if I or some other ordinary collector had sent all these altered cards in, and not PWCC, whether they would have graded. And on another front I am highly skeptical that I or some other ordinary collector would get anywhere near the number of PSA 10s some of these high volume insiders seem to pull.

Yep...

Dream on, Dream on...

Dream until your dreams come true

:rolleyes:

Ronnie73
08-14-2019, 12:32 PM
At this point, I truly wonder if I or some other ordinary collector had sent all these altered cards in, and not PWCC, whether they would have graded. And on another front I am highly skeptical that I or some other ordinary collector would get anywhere near the number of PSA 10s some of these high volume insiders seem to pull.

I've always wondered the same thing. Like, how does it even work? How does 4 Sharp Corners get all these 10's? Do they just send in 5000 count boxes and PSA only grades the 10's? Do they get charged for the cards that don't grade? Then they sell many of these 10's for a couple dollars over what it would cost me to grade them. Is there discount that big? I'd sure like to know how it's done.

LincolnVT
08-14-2019, 12:35 PM
I think that it's still safe to buy high grade cards that have solid provenance. But there are only so many of those cards to be had...

Also, wondering if anyone has a timelframe on the cards that are currently in question? Graded in the past year or two, maybe three? Maybe it's safe to still buy high graded cards in older holders?

Exhibitman
08-14-2019, 12:38 PM
From what I understand this has been going on for many years. There are no safe cards except the ones you submitted or that were submitted by a trusted colleague. I sent in a lot of cards for PSA and SGC grading pre-2008; I have the records of all of them and if I ever sell out my collection those cards will be presented as such.

Peter_Spaeth
08-14-2019, 12:40 PM
I think that it's still safe to buy high grade cards that have solid provenance. But there are only so many of those cards to be had...

Also, wondering if anyone has a timelframe on the cards that are currently in question? Graded in the past year or two, maybe three? Maybe it's safe to still buy high graded cards in older holders?

Oh God no many elite card doctors have been on the scene since the early 90s.

barrysloate
08-14-2019, 12:46 PM
I think it just might be more lucrative to be a card doctor than a medical doctor.

bobbyw8469
08-14-2019, 12:52 PM
I think it just might be more lucrative to be a card doctor than a medical doctor.

Ha-Ha!!! With no repurcussions! Medical doctors have to worry about malpractice suits. These guys are performing at will.

Brian Van Horn
08-14-2019, 04:47 PM
The polar ends of this hobby that always make shake my head:

1. The cards were made for the most part for kids. Now, unless you were an obsessive-compulsive, most kids flipped, dinged and beat up the cards.

2. The adults who want pristine to bring back memories or satisfy their greed.

These ideas have one incredible chasm between them.

Promethius88
08-14-2019, 04:57 PM
until something changes.

I'm not going to be the next guy to find out that the PSA 10 he paid $35,000 for was actually a PSA 7 last year and sold somewhere for $900. Nah. Not going there. Not going to be me. And frankly I don't have enough hours or the desire to do an archeological dive every time I want to buy a card.

Good luck in whatever hobby you choose next!

drcy
08-14-2019, 05:01 PM
I collect raw, but may put on clothes this Fall.

Brian Van Horn
08-14-2019, 05:10 PM
I collect raw, but may put on clothes this Fall.

This would be a card that would never be on my want list.

GasHouseGang
08-14-2019, 05:23 PM
And on another front I am highly skeptical that I or some other ordinary collector would get anywhere near the number of PSA 10s some of these high volume insiders seem to pull.

I've thought the same thing ever since I got back into collecting in 2006. The auction houses sure seem to be able to get higher grades on the cards they submit. People on the board have suggested many times that they were being given special treatment since they had the largest card submissions. That always struck me as an admission that we all believed the system was rigged against the average collector/submitter.

Gradedcardman
08-14-2019, 05:35 PM
Your a big boy and its your decision...Glad you shared.

BabyRuth
08-14-2019, 06:12 PM
I always stuck to AUTH or 1s or 2s, so none of this card doctoring ever mattered to me. I am and always have been, in it for the collecting aspect. The greed that made everyone chase 8s, 9s and 10s has finally caught up to some folks!! It's now time to come back to earth with us bottom feeders, and let the hobby steer back into collecting mode, rather than investment portfolio mode.

Forever Young
08-14-2019, 06:29 PM
I collect raw, but may put on clothes this Fall.

Ufta...

bmattioli
08-14-2019, 08:28 PM
I'll stay raw thank you..

Chris Counts
08-14-2019, 09:32 PM
"I always stuck to AUTH or 1s or 2s, so none of this card doctoring ever mattered to me."

When I discovered this site 15 or so years ago, I saw that many board members were warning about the high number of trimmed cards in high-end holders. I made the choice back then to stick to cards that look nice, but grade poorly.

irv
08-14-2019, 09:58 PM
I'll stay raw thank you..

Very nice!

Here's a few of mine. Some were given to me by my father and some I purchased.

glynparson
08-15-2019, 06:38 AM
How many vintage PSA 10s were you buying before the scandal broke?

Snapolit1
08-15-2019, 07:15 AM
How many vintage PSA 10s were you buying before the scandal broke?

Very few on vintage side. But have shelled out real money for some 9s and 8s.

SAllen2556
08-15-2019, 08:17 AM
I've always wondered the same thing. Like, how does it even work? How does 4 Sharp Corners get all these 10's? Do they just send in 5000 count boxes and PSA only grades the 10's? Do they get charged for the cards that don't grade? Then they sell many of these 10's for a couple dollars over what it would cost me to grade them. Is there discount that big? I'd sure like to know how it's done.

If you were PSA and just starting out wouldn't it make sense to just grade a bunch of cards you got yourself just so you could increase the number of graded cards in the market place? You wouldn't have wanted (or needed) to wait for customers to get your product out there. Because, isn't the goal of PSA to have every card ever made entombed in plastic? I always assumed that's what 4 Sharp Corners was - basically a branch of PSA.

CMIZ5290
08-21-2019, 07:54 PM
I stand with the OP. in fact, I will not throw another pitch for the astros until they meet my salary demands.

What an idiot...Do you realize how stupid you sound?

orly57
08-21-2019, 08:07 PM
What an idiot...Do you realize how stupid you sound?

I would normally say that this comment is out of line, but since it comes from Kevin Mize, I will just say it’s badly off centered.

MULLINS5
08-21-2019, 09:15 PM
Has anyone seen the Blowout page where, allegedly, a former PSA employee altered high grade SI Tiger Woods rookies?

Billy5858
08-21-2019, 09:20 PM
No...but I believe it 😡

Rhotchkiss
08-21-2019, 09:29 PM
Has anyone seen the Blowout page where, allegedly, a former PSA employee altered high grade SI Tiger Woods rookies?

I started a new thread and posted the link but it got moved to the watercooler section.

Here is the link again

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1314067

Johnny630
08-22-2019, 09:21 AM
The corruption is so rampant....this is never going to stop....to many people are making money...if and when that stops the fraud and manipulation will slow. Other then that...with people spending money like it’s burning a hole in their pockets along with PSA grading more and more altered cards I see no signs of this slowing or stopping in the near future.

buymycards
08-22-2019, 09:28 AM
I started a new thread and posted the link but it got moved to the watercooler section.

Here is the link again

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1314067

It got moved to the Postwar Pre 1980's section. I'm not sure why it didn't stay on the front page.

wondo
08-22-2019, 09:31 AM
It got moved to the Postwar Pre 1980's section. I'm not sure why it didn't stay on the front page.

Because the main page is:

Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions

ullmandds
08-22-2019, 09:32 AM
Because the main page is:

Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions

this is true some of the time

buymycards
08-22-2019, 09:58 AM
Because the main page is:

Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions

Hi John, look at the main page. Most of the threads are in regard to Blowout, PWCC, PSA, and the scandals, including this thread.

Regards, Rick

Fuddjcal
08-22-2019, 10:04 AM
I think that it's still safe to buy high grade cards that have solid provenance. But there are only so many of those cards to be had...

Also, wondering if anyone has a timelframe on the cards that are currently in question? Graded in the past year or two, maybe three? Maybe it's safe to still buy high graded cards in older holders?

you mean PWCC doesn't have all the high grade cards ALL THE TIME? The hell you say...NOW YOU KNOW WHY AND WHERE THEY HAVE BEEN COMING FROM. It ain't safe to buy squat period, It is a corrupt and disgusting hobby full of LOSERS. I used to love it, now I hate it. The time frame you seek is for 18-20 years this has been going on with cards constantly being flipped in and out of those stupid holders.

I did buy a $40 card however, going against my Stan Laurels. :D:D:D Yes, folks...even for the haters it's hard to quit. :D:D:D

Leon
08-22-2019, 10:07 AM
Hi John, look at the main page. Most of the threads are in regard to Blowout, PWCC, PSA, and the scandals, including this thread.

Regards, Rick

And that is precisely why some get moved. It is called moderation.....I prefer all threads on the front page to be concerning WWII cards and before but that isn't reality. Some Important stuff gets left on the front page because it needs more eyes on it but my preference is cards we collect. Also, the further we get from WWII and forward the more likely something is to get moved. There is no rhyme nor reason as there is no telling what will be posted next. Some of the "slabgate" scandal threads have been moved as they are too numerous.

BTW John W (hey John) is absolutely correct in his above statement.

BigBeerGut
08-22-2019, 11:54 AM
Me really can not beleive the ca$h-ola you guys spend on these cards! I will be on the beach watching yall surf it up I guess!

MD

jchcollins
08-22-2019, 03:08 PM
I do mostly postwar and am not able to spend anything approaching a lot even there, but the scandal has made me look back fondly at childhood days when collecting old cards was not only about evaluating minuscule differences between slabs and numbers on flips. Back then, say if there was a Willie Mays card from the 1950's in a shop - it was simply cool that it was an old card. Condition issues were a given; for my own collection I tried to avoid cards with major creases, but that was about it. Dinged corners and off-centered cards didn't make much difference.

Since then and the advent of professional grading, I have seen grading and condition as kind of a "sub-hobby" of mine - because it was something that I had been interested in even as a teenager before the PSA days - how do you really "accurately" grade a card even within certain tolerances - the fact that EX cards should not have creases, NM should be centered better than xx/xx, those kinds of things. So now what I feel like is that this scandal has cast even more confusion and doubt over the accepted grades because of what the doctors have done. There is discussion about trashing the 1-10 system in it's entirety and just going back to some version of Authentic only, or "Authentic - Nice Card" without so much detail and minutiae put into the system of half-points. How do folks feel about this? On the surface this would seem a hard system to buck quickly - just looking at how crazy detailed things got over in the coin hobby and their slabbing - which of course led to it starting here in ours.

Bottom line I will continue to find grading interesting - and I enjoy educating new collectors here and there on forums like this and maybe more so on social media as to the nuances of condition. It does feel like the PWCC mess has cast quite a shadow over even the legit practice of card grading - as it evolved in the hobby from the 1970's on to today.

CMIZ5290
08-22-2019, 06:57 PM
I would normally say that this comment is out of line, but since it comes from Kevin Mize, I will just say it’s badly off centered.

Another wannabe.... Good luck pal, maybe you and R0nn13 L3hm@n can go out to dinner tonight....

vintagebaseballcardguy
08-23-2019, 11:38 AM
I do mostly postwar and am not able to spend anything approaching a lot even there, but the scandal has made me look back fondly at childhood days when collecting old cards was not only about evaluating minuscule differences between slabs and numbers on flips. Back then, say if there was a Willie Mays card from the 1950's in a shop - it was simply cool that it was an old card. Condition issues were a given; for my own collection I tried to avoid cards with major creases, but that was about it. Dinged corners and off-centered cards didn't make much difference.

Since then and the advent of professional grading, I have seen grading and condition as kind of a "sub-hobby" of mine - because it was something that I had been interested in even as a teenager before the PSA days - how do you really "accurately" grade a card even within certain tolerances - the fact that EX cards should not have creases, NM should be centered better than xx/xx, those kinds of things. So now what I feel like is that this scandal has cast even more confusion and doubt over the accepted grades because of what the doctors have done. There is discussion about trashing the 1-10 system in it's entirety and just going back to some version of Authentic only, or "Authentic - Nice Card" without so much detail and minutiae put into the system of half-points. How do folks feel about this? On the surface this would seem a hard system to buck quickly - just looking at how crazy detailed things got over in the coin hobby and their slabbing - which of course led to it starting here in ours.

Bottom line I will continue to find grading interesting - and I enjoy educating new collectors here and there on forums like this and maybe more so on social media as to the nuances of condition. It does feel like the PWCC mess has cast quite a shadow over even the legit practice of card grading - as it evolved in the hobby from the 1970's on to today.Well said, John.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

jchcollins
08-23-2019, 01:24 PM
Well said, John.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

Long time, Robert. Hope you are doing well!

Aquarian Sports Cards
08-23-2019, 02:39 PM
Probably been said before, but I don't understand the logic of the point of the thread. I'm not a seller of high-end cards for the most part so this isn't self-serving, but didn't we get into this hobby because we love cards, examining cards, learning about cards etc? Why have we abdicated so much of the work we used to do before a purchase? Is it trust in Auction Houses and TPG's or just laziness? I got burnt plenty of times before TPG's and each time I learned something new. While we go after the criminals and their abbetors and enablers (which I whole-heartedly support) let's use this experience like we would've in the pre-TPG days and learn from it in order to protect ourselves.

Steve you know plenty about cards. I'm sure with due diligence you could protect yourself on a high-end purchase.

I am just as frustrated with the situation as anyone. Can you imagine being the owner of a small auction house that is trying to grow in the midst of this? That being said I have increased my vigilance even on graded cards before they go into one of my sales. I am still struggling with how to treat altered cards. Not sure if I want to sell them even with full disclosure as I don't know what the next person is going to do with them. We already destroy fake autographs (with consignors permission) but doing that with cards doesn't seem like the right answer.

Mark70Z
08-24-2019, 08:44 AM
Probably been said before, but I don't understand the logic of the point of the thread. I'm not a seller of high-end cards for the most part so this isn't self-serving, but didn't we get into this hobby because we love cards, examining cards, learning about cards etc? Why have we abdicated so much of the work we used to do before a purchase? Is it trust in Auction Houses and TPG's or just laziness? I got burnt plenty of times before TPG's and each time I learned something new.

Scott,

I can’t answer for the OP, but I did get into the hobby because I do love (well...really like a lot) cards. Personally though I didn’t get into the hobby because I like “examining cards” or really anything else other than I like the player/s I collect and cardboard was cool. I know I didn’t do much, as you stated, conducted “work” before the purchase. Maybe I’m lazy, but I thought it was a hobby and not a job. At this point I really don’t trust the grading companies, auction houses, or some of these resellers since the almighty dollar seems to be supreme. I’m sure I’ll begin to start to somewhat trust certain auction houses, but will be gradual. I won’t be purchasing high grade cards though. The thing you said that got me is that you’ve been burned plenty of times and learned from it; I don’t want to get burned at all.

Johnny630
08-24-2019, 08:51 AM
The key is to find a happy medium.....If you can tolerate knowing that the industry is full of scum bags and frauds while still having fun and collecting what you enjoy while having fun that’s all that matters.

Nothing will ever change to completely get rid of the garbage, it will always be there because this is fueled by money and greed. Waymore people are in this now to make money not for a hobby

2dueces
08-24-2019, 10:29 AM
Very nice!

Here's a few of mine. Some were given to me by my father and some I purchased.

Beautiful!

irv
08-24-2019, 10:45 AM
Beautiful!

Thanks, Joe! :)

Aquarian Sports Cards
08-24-2019, 10:52 AM
Scott,

I can’t answer for the OP, but I did get into the hobby because I do love (well...really like a lot) cards. Personally though I didn’t get into the hobby because I like “examining cards” or really anything else other than I like the player/s I collect and cardboard was cool. I know I didn’t do much, as you stated, conducted “work” before the purchase. Maybe I’m lazy, but I thought it was a hobby and not a job. At this point I really don’t trust the grading companies, auction houses, or some of these resellers since the almighty dollar seems to be supreme. I’m sure I’ll begin to start to somewhat trust certain auction houses, but will be gradual. I won’t be purchasing high grade cards though. The thing you said that got me is that you’ve been burned plenty of time and learned from it; I don’t want to get burned at all.

I can appreciate that. It's hard for me to walk a mile in another man's moccasins sometimes.

I love the knowledge and learning about the cards themselves, not everyone is the same. That being said, if you are the kind of guy who collects because he loves the game and the history and old bits of cardboard, then, to me, it doesn't make sense to be in the high-end market in the first place. If you ARE in the high end market then the monetary value both present and future IS important to you. I feel it's incumbent upon the buyer of such items to be able to rely on themselves.

I wouldn't call high-end buyers who don't know their stuff lazy, just naive in believing they can trust anyone 100%. Even reputable people and companies make mistakes, though they tend to be the ones who fix their mistakes quickly!

I guess how I feel is, if you're in the high end market, unless you won the lottery or inherited all your money, odds are you're fairly smart. With the application of that intelligence to the cards you buy, you should still be reasonably safe, just don't abdicate your decision making abilities to a third party.

Mark70Z
08-25-2019, 04:21 PM
I love the knowledge and learning about the cards themselves, not everyone is the same. That being said, if you are the kind of guy who collects because he loves the game and the history and old bits of cardboard, then, to me, it doesn't make sense to be in the high-end market in the first place. If you ARE in the high end market then the monetary value both present and future IS important to you. I feel it's incumbent upon the buyer of such items to be able to rely on themselves.

I wouldn't call high-end buyers who don't know their stuff lazy, just naive in believing they can trust anyone 100%. Even reputable people and companies make mistakes, though they tend to be the ones who fix their mistakes quickly!

I guess how I feel is, if you're in the high end market, unless you won the lottery or inherited all your money, odds are you're fairly smart. With the application of that intelligence to the cards you buy, you should still be reasonably safe, just don't abdicate your decision making abilities to a third party.

Scott,

Thanks for the response. Kinda lets me know what your outlook is on card collecting as well as what’s going on currently in the hobby. It probably would help to give a bit of a background of what type of collector I am. Currently I’m basically a single player collector as well pick up Orioles memorabilia. I have collected cards in the past, but now I’ve narrowed my focused on those type items (basically because I can’t afford everything).

I do really like learning about cards and the different oddball issues that are out there, but what I was referring to is I really don’t desire to gain knowledge on whether a card has been trimmed, re-colored, corners rebuilt, some type of alterations, re-glossing, etc. Really didn’t think at all about that when purchasing a graded card. A raw card I looked for some of those type of things, but not graded; maybe I was naive. Basically looked at centering, registration, etc. on the card.

Now I think there’s probably a difference in what we’re referring to high end and high grade. I’ve been collecting Brooks Robinson for quite a while now and several years ago I thought it would be cool to pick up some higher grade cards. Most of the cards I had in my collection were probably EX or EXMT; in that range (probably not centered well either...). Didn’t think much about centering when I was young or even when I started getting back in the hobby. Several of the people, likely here on Net54, messed with my mind and now I typically see centering issues first thing (wish I didn’t listen!). Anyway, I was just wanting to add some higher grade cards (7-9 in my thinking is higher end). So, I wasn’t doing it for an investment, but to just have a nicer card in my collection. I sure wouldn’t like it if I spent a higher amount for these cards and find out they are altered; no better than what I had originally.

By the way... I hope to pick up a few pics in the auction!

Aquarian Sports Cards
08-25-2019, 04:33 PM
I'm not a high grade guy myself. As a dealer before I took over the auction I specialized in collector-grade to maybe VG/EX in prewar stuff. EX-NM in 50's and 60's and was focused on helping people complete whatever they were working on, sets, team sets, player runs, etc...

Even now as an auction house I don't think it's in my best interest to try and compete with the companies that can get the PSA 7 and 8 t206's on consignment. If you look at last year's pre-war auction it was largely Poor - VG. Cards that, to me, can be enjoyed without losing too much sleep over them. This year's will be similar in terms of grade (shameless plug it starts on October 2nd!)

If I were ever to offer high grade items in that auction I would be sure to vet them as thoroughly as humanly possible. I WANT people to feel like they can just blindly trust my auctions, even while I would advise against it on principal.

For example I had two and sometimes three guys who know more about photos than me look at my current auction because I didn't want to screw up identifying anything in a corner of the collecting world about which I am only learning. I did everything I could to make sure there were no mistakes. Yet it wouldn't blow my mind if somehow I still got something wrong.

I appreciate good dialogue and good luck in tonight's auction!

Card Tech710
08-30-2019, 11:16 PM
until something changes.

I'm not going to be the next guy to find out that the PSA 10 he paid $35,000 for was actually a PSA 7 last year and sold somewhere for $900. Nah. Not going there. Not going to be me. And frankly I don't have enough hours or the desire to do an archeological dive every time I want to buy a card.


Here's an example of what I THOUGHT was a 68' Ryan RC in a PSA
8 Turns out it was switched with an inferior Ryan RC

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hmk_xBp2aq4&t=9s

bxb
08-31-2019, 08:56 AM
Here's an example of what I THOUGHT was a 68' Ryan RC in a PSA
8 Turns out it was switched with an inferior Ryan RC

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hmk_xBp2aq4&t=9s

Well, the good news is PSA detected the slab alteration.

Reading all these threads, seems that expert trimming is more of a problem for them to detect.

Card Tech710
08-31-2019, 10:19 PM
@BXB, yea I was lucky cause I held onto the card for a couple months, sent it to PSA to get re-holdered and they took a couple weeks upon receipt to get back to me.

But luckily PSA had instances of the ole switcheroo happening to other customers so they provided me with all the documents to dispute the original seller if it came to that.

Let's say that I now double & triple check any slabs that I get for case alterations