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Snapolit1
08-02-2019, 09:16 PM
Rumor has it that a green Cobb previously returned to seller as trimmed suddenly reappeared at National with another seller and was dumped on a new unsuspecting rube.
Just reporting the rumor on the street. Not that there are any bad people there or anything.

bnorth
08-02-2019, 10:45 PM
Rumor has it that a green Cobb previously returned to seller as trimmed suddenly reappeared at National with another seller and was dumped on a new unsuspecting rube.
Just reporting the rumor on the street. Not that there are any bad people there or anything.

Any names or what green Cobb?

I heard there is a guy there that sells counterfeit cards with forged autographs on them.:eek:

wondo
08-02-2019, 11:43 PM
Bizarre post - just sayin’.

jason.1969
08-03-2019, 04:30 AM
Correct. Was an authentic. Went through Moser. Became a PSA/PWCC 2. Returned by buyer to Red Zone (where he purchased it) as doctored/"conserved." And now back in the wild on the National floor at Heartland as a PSA 2 like nothing ever happened.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190803/da1ce39447aafb14e572decef87d66c8.jpg

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Mark17
08-03-2019, 04:42 AM
Correct. Was an authentic. Went through Moser. Became a PSA/PWCC 2. Returned by buyer and refunded by Brent as doctored/"conserved." And now back in the wild on the National floor as a PSA 2 like nothing ever happened.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190803/da1ce39447aafb14e572decef87d66c8.jpg

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So does this mean Brent refunded on the card, admitting it had been altered, and then simply resold it? You'd think he would have defaced the PSA flip identifying the card as altered, at minimum, or broken it out of the PSA case so it would, at least for awhile, not be incorrectly labeled a PSA 2.

If the chain of ownership of that card, and what's been happening with it, can be clearly established, I do not think it would go well if introduced as evidence of misrepresentation (fraud) in court.

jason.1969
08-03-2019, 04:54 AM
So does this mean Brent refunded on the card, admitting it had been altered, and then simply resold it? You'd think he would have defaced the PSA flip identifying the card as altered, at minimum, or broken it out of the PSA case so it would, at least for awhile, not be incorrectly labeled a PSA 2.



If the chain of ownership of that card, and what's been happening with it, can be clearly established, I do not think it would go well if introduced as evidence of misrepresentation (fraud) in court.I had an error in my original response that I've now corrected. Brent/PWCC not in the resell loop. Main point is that card is back in the wild with some unsuspecting buyer sure to pounce.

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Peter_Spaeth
08-03-2019, 08:03 AM
In a nutshell this is the problem with Sloan's position that buyers of altered cards should go to the seller not PSA. Indeed, it the card has gone up in price, it's just a profit opportunity for the seller. And even if not just put it back out there.

Good solution, Steve.

jason.1969
08-03-2019, 08:14 AM
As the cards are already altered I would propose a scarlet letter "A" for altered embossed directly on the front and back of the card. Pretty much nothing else will protect the hobby from garbage, sad as the fact may be.

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Johnny630
08-03-2019, 08:17 AM
In a nutshell this is the problem with Sloan's position that buyers of altered cards should go to the seller not PSA. Indeed, it the card has gone up in price, it's just a profit opportunity for the seller. And even if not just put it back out there.

Good solution, Steve.

Exactly

PSA should hold the responsibility for buying back the card and paying the victim the difference.

PSA is a total BS company built on lies....they’re supposed to be the Police in this Meaning Authority In wether a Card is good or not....they’re as corrupt as the card doctors....

The registry is farce/BS marketing.... their pop report is bogus and their company can’t determine what is altered and what is not.....the Industry has been ripe for fraud since the Wagner....PSA’s OPINION is worthless

All the bitching and complaining is worthless if people don’t stop using them and buying their product....

I suspect after the dust settles PSA and the card doctors will continue this at even a more extreme clip....

Zero accountability no card doctors will be charged no responsibility and liability will be placed on PSA ....no change in this industry except for monetary value Of graded cards.

It’s going to Crash....when it does it’s going to be a big crash

Rhotchkiss
08-03-2019, 08:18 AM
Jason, so Heartland (whoever that is), is currently selling the card? If so, I think a more effective header would be “Heartland at booth ____ is selling a green Cobb known to be altered. Beware”

Steve, thanks for pointing this out. We need to police ourselves.

jason.1969
08-03-2019, 08:21 AM
There are many collectors who worship the slab so much that they value the plastic and the number more than the actual baseball card.

There are really two hobbies now. Some of us collect cards, and some of us collect grades. For the grade collectors it really doesn't matter how the grade got there. For them the scandal is actually a feature and not a bug.

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jason.1969
08-03-2019, 08:23 AM
Jason, so Heartland (whoever that is), is currently selling the card? If so, I think a more effective header would be “Heartland at booth ____ is selling a green Cobb known to be altered. Beware”

Steve, thanks for pointing this out. We need to police ourselves.Correct. I will be there today and look to see if it's still out or has been purchased.

I don't know that they know what they have, but one would think any dealer would check the lists before touching a $5K card these days.

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RedsFan1941
08-03-2019, 08:39 AM
for what it’s worth, Heartland is Bill Goodwin’s new company, which he started after Beckett cut ties with him.

ullmandds
08-03-2019, 08:44 AM
for what it’s worth, Heartland is Bill Goodwin’s new company, which he started after Beckett cut ties with him.

shocking!!!! On facebook the guy who was considering purchasing this green cobb stated it was sold shortly after he decided to pass.

Peter_Spaeth
08-03-2019, 08:47 AM
shocking!!!! On facebook the guy who was considering purchasing this green cobb stated it was sold shortly after he decided to pass.

And an altered significant card re-enters the hobby. Good result, Steve.

Rhotchkiss
08-03-2019, 08:52 AM
for what it’s worth, Heartland is Bill Goodwin’s new company, which he started after Beckett cut ties with him.

From what I hear, Bill Goodwin is a real winner.

ullmandds
08-03-2019, 08:53 AM
From what I hear, Bill Goodwin is a real winner.

Legend of the hobby!

Peter_Spaeth
08-03-2019, 08:58 AM
Legend of the hobby!

His prediction of the 55 Koufax in PSA 8 being worth 200K has not quite materialized.

bnorth
08-03-2019, 08:58 AM
Legend of the hobby!

Aren't they all.;)

ullmandds
08-03-2019, 08:59 AM
His prediction of the 55 Koufax in PSA 8 being worth 200K has not quite materialized.

Well he tried!!!!

Peter_Spaeth
08-03-2019, 09:05 AM
Well he tried!!!!

I think the best he could do on that one was 80, and I would bet that was a fake sale like so many of PWCC's in that time period apparently were. There was one buyer in particular who was "winning" cards like that left and right in several of the AHs but not paying for them.

ullmandds
08-03-2019, 09:12 AM
I think the best he could do on that one was 80, and I would bet that was a fake sale like so many of PWCC's in that time period apparently were. There was one buyer in particular who was "winning" cards like that left and right in several of the AHs but not paying for them.

Well im content with my raw g-ish koufax rookie in my hof binder!!

Fuddjcal
08-03-2019, 11:50 AM
Correct. Was an authentic. Went through Moser. Became a PSA/PWCC 2. Returned by buyer to Red Zone (where he purchased it) as doctored/"conserved." And now back in the wild on the National floor at Heartland as a PSA 2 like nothing ever happened.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190803/da1ce39447aafb14e572decef87d66c8.jpg

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That's PAR FOR THE COURSE :D:D:D

samosa4u
08-03-2019, 02:04 PM
It’s going to Crash....when it does it’s going to be a big crash

No it's not.

Johnny630
08-03-2019, 02:53 PM
[QUOTE=samosa4u;1905083]No it's not.[/QUOT


I think graded cards need to come down 40% for this to heal.....that would be my non recession crash predictions.

My biggest fear is with no crash that alteration and shill/no winning bids will become acceptable as the norm in this industry....

Peter_Spaeth
08-03-2019, 04:05 PM
[QUOTE=samosa4u;1905083]No it's not.[/QUOT


I think graded cards need to come down 40% for this to heal.....that would be my non recession crash predictions.

My biggest fear is with no crash that alteration and shill/no winning bids will become acceptable as the norm in this industry....

Perhaps they already have.

bnorth
08-03-2019, 04:26 PM
[QUOTE=Johnny630;1905096]

Perhaps they already have.

Some have, a while back I was debating on either a 52 Topps Eddie Mathews or a T206 Red Cobb. So glad I went with the Mathews(Thanks Ted). Prices are slightly up on Eddie. I have still been watching the Red Cobb and the prices are down from a few months ago.

Snapolit1
08-03-2019, 04:30 PM
[QUOTE=Johnny630;1905096]

Perhaps they already have.

Id have a damm hard time spending more than $1000 on a graded card at this point. Unless I knew a whole lot about it’s history.