Washington Post article on the altered card scandal

[Peter_Spaeth]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2019/07/18/baseball-card-collectors-suspected-rampant-fraud-their-hobby-now-fbi-is-investigating/?_view=prod&utm_term=.9b528888be93

[chalupacollects]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2019/07/18/baseball-card-collectors-suspected-rampant-fraud-their-hobby-now-fbi-is-investigating/?_view=prod&utm_term=.9b528888be93

Good exposure to the rest of the world!

[Snapolit1]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2019/07/18/baseball-card-collectors-suspected-rampant-fraud-their-hobby-now-fbi-is-investigating/?_view=prod&utm_term=.9b528888be93

Nice balanced piece. Like most kinds of fraud, it's just a long game of whack a mole. When you figure out how to stop some part of it some sleezebag will figure out a new approach.
If PWCC has an email trail with Moser of anyone else detailing fraud I'd be real concerned. I've seen Brent at a few shows and he don't look like the kind of hale and hearty guy whose going to take a stint in a federal penitentiary particularly well.

[ejharrington]

Good article. I don't know how Moser can deny what he has done in light of the overwhelming evidence against him.

[griffon512]

There's a good likelihood that some or all of the lawyers who regularly post on this Board will read this thread. The question is have you or are you currently giving legal services to PWCC, Brent Huigens, PSA/Collectors Universe, or Gary Moser in any capacity? A simple yes or no would suffice.

[36GoudeyMan]

Within the hobby, within perhaps an even smaller circle, this scandal has been well-read for a few weeks, if not longer. This exposure, in a national publication with very substantial street cred, is going to be read by tens of thousands of people, and word will spread far and fast beyond the readership (as well it should).

How will this impact the hobby? How will it impact the next generation of collectors? Will this get parents scared off of introducing kids to the joy of collecting? Does it crash the market for vintage and semi-vintage cards? I said a while back that this is a scandal of industry-rattling proportions, and I am very worried that the fun and pleasure of collecting is going to get flushed down the crapper by this scandal.

[Peter_Spaeth]

There's a good likelihood that some or all of the lawyers who regularly post on this Board will read this thread. The question is have you or are you currently giving legal services to PWCC, Brent Huigens, PSA/Collectors Universe, or Gary Moser in any capacity? A simple yes or no would suffice.

no

[Millerd33]

Why are SGC holders used for the image yet not mentioned anywhere and no images of PSA holders at all?

[Rhotchkiss]

Excellent!! Well done to those pushing this with the media. Forward!

[ZiggerZagger]

Really nice write up and summarization of the hobby and current issues for the uninitiated lay public.

Very glad this is hitting the larger news environment, and well done to Peter and others.

[BeanTown]

The term that collectors have said for decades comes to mind. Buy the card, and not the holder. For all the others that compete on the registry and invest on what the TPG say.. I hope the rabbit hole doesnt go down too far with this fraud/scandal.

On a side note.. Wasn't there an investigation going on with fake PSA holders coming South of the border? They were using real cards and hard to detect unless the cert number didnt match up.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

There's a good likelihood that some or all of the lawyers who regularly post on this Board will read this thread. The question is have you or are you currently giving legal services to PWCC, Brent Huigens, PSA/Collectors Universe, or Gary Moser in any capacity? A simple yes or no would suffice.

Why would they answer that? It may even be unethical to answer.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

no

Or maybe they will, lol

[Peter_Spaeth]

JC there was and I think still is, I don't believe they have apprehended the guy yet.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Or maybe they will, lol

Sorry?

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

In a previous post I had said "why would a lawyer answer that question," then I saw that you did. Kudos.

[darwinbulldog]

One wonders why they went with a stack of SGC graded cards for the photo.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Moser said in a phone interview that he does not alter cards. He said he seeks out cards that he thinks have been “undergraded” by appraisers, breaks them out of their holders and resubmits them to grading companies without alteration hoping for a better value.

“I look for cards that PSA rated 5s and 6s, crack them out and hopefully get a better answer,” he said. “I’ve been buying and selling cards for 20 years. If I’ve been doing this [altering] for that long, I’d be retired. If I was this master alterer, I’d be pretty bad at it. I’d be pretty stupid.”

[griffon512]

Why would they answer that? It may even be unethical to answer.

If they are not giving legal services to these people/entities, why would it be privileged? If they are giving legal services to them, it's the determination of the lawyer whether it's privileged or unethical. If enough lawyers who regularly post respond and one doesn't that alone might reflect something. Not sure why you posted. It should be obvious to you why I did.

[Bicem]

Finally a decent article about all this, David Seideman at Forbes should take notes.

[Kenny Cole]

There's a good likelihood that some or all of the lawyers who regularly post on this Board will read this thread. The question is have you or are you currently giving legal services to PWCC, Brent Huigens, PSA/Collectors Universe, or Gary Moser in any capacity? A simple yes or no would suffice.

No.

[Johnny630]

Why are they Picturing SGC Cards and Not PSA ????

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Why are they Picturing SGC Cards and Not PSA ????

Likely an image they already had on file. There's another image from the 2010 National.

[Johnny630]

Likely an image they already had on file. There's another image from the 2010 National.

Thanks Scott....hope they change it..

[Rich Klein]

Likely an image they already had on file. There's another image from the 2010 National.

They probably covered the 2010 Baltimore National because of the proximity to Washington and had those photos on file. And because they don't have hobby knowledge we do, they used what they had.

Rich

[griffon512]

No.

see title

[nolemmings]

If they are not giving legal services to these people/entities, why would it be privileged? If they are giving legal services to them, it's the determination of the lawyer whether it's privileged or unethical. If enough lawyers who regularly post respond and one doesn't that alone might reflect something. Not sure why you posted. It should be obvious to you why I did.

The question, at least as I read it, was whether disclosure would be unethical, which is not limited to whether the information is privileged. Confidential information, privileged or not, may not be disclosed without client consent, with very limited exceptions.

[Johnny630]

The question, at least as I read it, was whether disclosure would be unethical, which is not limited to whether the information is privileged. Confidential information, privileged or not, may not be disclosed without client consent, with very limited exceptions.

As Much as it Pains me to say this....I despise it but believe to be truth....
I think it’s going to Very Very difficult to prove Anyone allegedly Altered Any Cards....

Sad long term all the facts and exposure being brought to like will be good for the Industry...temporary pain hurts be will get much better

[h2oya311]

Very good article. Well-written and explains the baseball card industry pretty well for those outside of the hobby. The comments after the article make me sad, but I guess it's to be expected. Many of us are fools with our money.

[perezfan]

Why are SGC holders used for the image yet not mentioned anywhere and no images of PSA holders at all?

This aspect annoyed me as well....

But finally a well-written article, overall. I thought the reporter covered most of the high points in an efficient and concise fashion.

[Millerd33]

I contacted SGC to let them know. We shall see if the image is changed.

[AGuinness]

They probably covered the 2010 Baltimore National because of the proximity to Washington and had those photos on file. And because they don't have hobby knowledge we do, they used what they had.

Rich

Either that or because SGC slabs are just objectively more attractive and photogenic than the others... :P

[AGuinness]

As Much as it Pains me to say this....I despise it but believe to be truth....
I think it’s going to Very Very difficult to prove Anyone allegedly Altered Any Cards....

Sad long term all the facts and exposure being brought to like will be good for the Industry...temporary pain hurts be will get much better

If there is an investigation, then I think whatever entity is in charge will have more tools in the toolbox to get at evidence than the BODA people do. And in that case, I believe that it won't be as difficult to prove the alterations/conspiracy/etc.

[AGuinness]

I contacted SGC to let them know. We shall see if the image is changed.

The bigger question is why didn't the Washington Post run before and after photos of a doctored card. I can't imagine they wouldn't have permission from the BODA people to do so.

[Johnny630]

If there is an investigation, then I think whatever entity is in charge will have more tools in the toolbox to get at evidence than the BODA people do. And in that case, I believe that it won't be as difficult to prove the alterations/conspiracy/etc.

I’m just addressing the altering of cards.....how are they going to able to prove that anyone did alleged alterations, meaning specific persons..... PSA can’t determine anything...that’s one thing that’s been shown by them, they’re good at not stopping them.. They’re laughing knowing They’re safe.....probably just not gonna be as bold about it...using same account to buy and same auction houses...it’s going to be more targeted and hidden....I take solace in knowing the more arrogant and brash they get the more likely they will be to get caught. Fingers crossed

[AGuinness]

I’m just addressing the altering of cards.....how are they going to able to prove that anyone did anything, meaning specific persons..... PSA can’t determine anything...that’s one thing that’s been proven. They’re laughing knowing They’re safe.....probably just not gonna be as bold about it...using same account to buy and same auction houses...it’s going to be more targeted and hidden....I take solace in knowing the more arrogant and brash they get the more likely they will be to get caught. Fingers crossed

The way I believe it could work is that investigators could get warrants to obtain documents, etc. that would really pull back the curtain on what was going on.

[Johnny630]

The way I believe it could work is that investigators could get warrants to obtain documents, etc. that would really pull back the curtain on what was going on.

Right I hear you man....but here is the thing.......what prof do you have to say specific person or persons did this? Did you see such and such trim bleach or re color a card? Where is the physical evidence? It’s all circumstantial.....still can hold same weight in court but I’m banking it won’t make it there...at least not to the specific alleged doctor or doctors...they’re gonna be very very difficult to pinch

[bobbyw8469]

I can't read it. It says I have run out of "free stories". And I refuse to pay The Washington Post a copper penny. If someone can post it here somehow, or a link I can read, that would be AWESOME!!!!

[Peter_Spaeth]

I can't read it. It says I have run out of "free stories". And I refuse to pay The Washington Post a copper penny. If someone can post it here somehow, or a link I can read, that would be AWESOME!!!!

It is copied in full, without pictures, on BO.

[samosa4u]

Funniest part of the article:

“I look for cards that PSA rated 5s and 6s, crack them out and hopefully get a better answer,” he said. “I’ve been buying and selling cards for 20 years. If I’ve been doing this [altering] for that long, I’d be retired. If I was this master alterer, I’d be pretty bad at it. I’d be pretty stupid.”

Almost every single altered card that was posted on the Blowout forum was purchased by Gary Moser. How can he just flat out deny it with all that evidence against him? He's f*cked and he knows it.

[RedsFan1941]

yes

[drcy]

I contacted SGC to let them know. We shall see if the image is changed.

The pic is small, and the label text even smaller and essentially impossible to read. Few to none of the WaPo readers are going to be trying to read that label and I don't think will be able to read what it says if they do. They'll see it as a generic photo the type that accompanies articles.

[HasselhoffsCheeseburger]

At this point, what defense is there for people that continue to do business with or associate with PWCC?

Arthur

[jhs5120]

At this point, what defense is there for people that continue to do business with or associate with PWCC?

Arthur

They offer a level of service that no one else provides in the hobby.

[ullmandds]

They offer a level of service that no one else provides in the hobby.

meaning they "enhance" the physical appearance of cards without dislosing their alterations and have them authenticated as unaltered and then sell them at inflated prices to the sheeple?

This service?

[jhs5120]

meaning they "enhance" the physical appearance of cards without dislosing their alterations and authenticate them as unaltered and then sell them at inflated prices to the sheeple?

This service?

Nope. As far as I’m aware, they’re the only seller that has a user friendly consignment portal that charges fees under 4%.

Selling stuff on eBay isn’t enjoyable. I am happy to send my consignments elsewhere, but right now PWCC seems like the best option. I’m happy to give them their 1-4% cut if they want to do all the work for me.

[Millerd33]

The pic is small, and the label text even smaller and essentially impossible to read. Few to none of the WaPo readers are going to be trying to read that label and I don't think will be able to read what it says if they do. They'll see it as a generic photo the type that accompanies articles.

This has been shared on many facebook card groups as well as anyone who goes to their website. It is very clear they are SGC in the image not PSA on those platforms.

[tschock]

What? No mention of all the class action lawsuits? :D

[Bicem]

Nope. As far as I’m aware, they’re the only seller that has a user friendly consignment portal that charges fees under 4%.

Selling stuff on eBay isn’t enjoyable. I am happy to send my consignments elsewhere, but right now PWCC seems like the best option. I’m happy to give them their 1-4% cut if they want to do all the work for me.

Good point, I mean what's a little fraud between friends?

[cubsguy1969]

The bigger question is why didn't the Washington Post run before and after photos of a doctored card. I can't imagine they wouldn't have permission from the BODA people to do so.

Because whoever took those photos owns the rights to those photos and would have to get paid for their use, or grant permission for their use. And I imagine they aren't too eager to do that. :)

I work at a big newspaper and the rules for photo usage have gotten insane. Even star publicity photos, which ostensibly were taken for PUBLICITY, require permission for use. Otherwise the photographer wants paid.

I agree using the SGC photo is bad. That's just lazy. Someone not paying attention.

[HasselhoffsCheeseburger]

Nope. As far as I’m aware, they’re the only seller that has a user friendly consignment portal that charges fees under 4%.

Selling stuff on eBay isn’t enjoyable. I am happy to send my consignments elsewhere, but right now PWCC seems like the best option. I’m happy to give them their 1-4% cut if they want to do all the work for me.

I assume then you're completely fine paying retail for graded cards that are actually altered/authentic. No? Can't have it both ways.

Arthur

[perezfan]

Good point, I mean what's a little fraud between friends?

And with a little shilling mixed in, it's the perfect venue for consignors who have no use for integrity, honesty and morality.

[jhs5120]

Good point, I mean what's a little fraud between friends?

I have never met Brent, nor am I defending him. I enjoy this hobby and being able to easily sell items to fund purchases is an important part of what makes it enjoyable for me.

[jhs5120]

I assume then you're completely fine paying retail for graded cards that are actually altered/authentic. No? Can't have it both ways.

Arthur

I'm not fine with paying retail for any card.

[ullmandds]

Nope. As far as I’m aware, they’re the only seller that has a user friendly consignment portal that charges fees under 4%.

Selling stuff on eBay isn’t enjoyable. I am happy to send my consignments elsewhere, but right now PWCC seems like the best option. I’m happy to give them their 1-4% cut if they want to do all the work for me.

ahhhhh...that "service!" I wonder if this is part of their business model...to undercharge for consignments in lieu of the back end where shill bidding and the moser connection more than make up the difference.

[jhs5120]

ahhhhh...that "service!" I wonder if this is part of their business model...to undercharge for consignments in lieu of the back end where shill bidding and the moser connection more than make up the difference.

I'd imagine they get heavily reduced rates through eBay, but who knows.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

The bigger question is why didn't the Washington Post run before and after photos of a doctored card. I can't imagine they wouldn't have permission from the BODA people to do so.

Because the BODA guys don't own the rights to those images?

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Right I hear you man....but here is the thing.......what prof do you have to say specific person or persons did this? Did you see such and such trim bleach or re color a card? Where is the physical evidence? It’s all circumstantial.....still can hold same weight in court but I’m banking it won’t make it there...at least not to the specific alleged doctor or doctors...they’re gonna be very very difficult to pinch

You're not listening (reading?) if there are documents such as emails between conspirators about which cards they're going to buy and trim etc... that would be pretty ironclad.

[drcy]

Nope. As far as I’m aware, they’re the only seller that has a user friendly consignment portal that charges fees under 4%.

Selling stuff on eBay isn’t enjoyable. I am happy to send my consignments elsewhere, but right now PWCC seems like the best option. I’m happy to give them their 1-4% cut if they want to do all the work for me.

This has nothing to do PWCC, and it should be obvious not defending them (I've already stated that they and Gary Moser should go under and get any legal prosecution they are due). However, many collectors who sell their own stuff on eBay don't understand that many collectors don't enjoy, or have the time, to do their own eBay auctions. They are willing to pay the extra percentage for the ability to send their stuff to someone else sell for them.

It's like you may enjoy painting your kitchen walls, but others don't and prefer to pay someone else to do it-- and they also may feel the professional will do a better job.

When someone says "Why don't they sell it themselves," the same can be said when you pay someone to paint your kitchen or mow your law.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

I can't read it. It says I have run out of "free stories". And I refuse to pay The Washington Post a copper penny. If someone can post it here somehow, or a link I can read, that would be AWESOME!!!!

So you read enough of their articles to have used up all your free ones for the month, but you think it's worthless???

[Bicem]

I have never met Brent, nor am I defending him. I enjoy this hobby and being able to easily sell items to fund purchases is an important part of what makes it enjoyable for me.

Not defending but supporting them financially by consigning, which is actually worse in my opinion.

[jhs5120]

This has nothing to do PWCC, and obviously not defending them (I've already stated that they and Gary Moser should go under). However, many collectors who sell their own stuff on eBay don't understand that many collectors don't enjoy, or have the time, to do their own eBay auctions. They are willing to pay the extra percentage for the ability to send their stuff to someone else sell for them.

Honestly, selling on eBay sucks. I appreciate that some collectors do not regularly sell items, but I do. I would prefer to send it to someone who can reliably sell my items than spend my time doing it myself. I am not going to take time away from my life because of this scandal. If someone wants to come up with a similar platform, fine, I will consider switching. However, right now, PWCC has no viable counterparts.

[drcy]

So you read enough of their articles to have used up all your free ones for the month, but you think it's worthless???

Clear your computer cashe/search memory and you can read it.

[Exhibitman]

There's a good likelihood that some or all of the lawyers who regularly post on this Board will read this thread. The question is have you or are you currently giving legal services to PWCC, Brent Huigens, PSA/Collectors Universe, or Gary Moser in any capacity? A simple yes or no would suffice.

No.

[SOX75]

This is great news...it's been hard to wait the last 6 weeks as we've heard nothing about any investigations, while the number of cards impacted keeps climbing.

With the FBI involved they will have subpoena power to get at the emails and text messages that will support the fraud allegations. And you can probably expect Moser or Brent to roll over on each other.

The only thing that bothers me about the article is that they take Brent's public statements at face value, which portray him as a victim. From what I've read he is a co-conspirator.

In terms of still consigning with PWCC, consider that many collectors will do a cert. verification or sales history search on any graded cards they consider buying. If PWCC shows up in the sales history you can bet that prices will fall dramatically. These cards will have the Scarlet Letter A (altered) forever. That will wipe out any potential savings over eBaying the card yourself.

[steve B]

Right I hear you man....but here is the thing.......what prof do you have to say specific person or persons did this? Did you see such and such trim bleach or re color a card? Where is the physical evidence? It’s all circumstantial.....still can hold same weight in court but I’m banking it won’t make it there...at least not to the specific alleged doctor or doctors...they’re gonna be very very difficult to pinch

How so?

It's a pretty easy timeline and possession issue.

Lets say I buy a card on the 10th, and it goes through PSA on the 20th. Then what? 3 months later it's in an auction and it's altered. There was maybe 5 days where it was with me between purchase, and being sent in.

Simple question did I alter the card?
if no,
then who did?
If I don't know
then who had it between my purchase and my sending it in.

Even if it's not that short of a time, the idea is the same. And in the end, either I did it, I take the fall for my friend who did it, or I turn him in.

[jhs5120]

Not defending but supporting them financially by consigning, which is actually worse in my opinion.

Worse? Morally? Ethically? I don't lose sleep over giving a company my baseball cards to sell on eBay for me.

[Exhibitman]

If they are not giving legal services to these people/entities, why would it be privileged? If they are giving legal services to them, it's the determination of the lawyer whether it's privileged or unethical. If enough lawyers who regularly post respond and one doesn't that alone might reflect something. Not sure why you posted. It should be obvious to you why I did.

Actually, there are certain circumstances where the fact of representation could be a client confidence that an attorney could not reveal without the client's permission, so some attorneys might not be able to answer the question.

I also want to make clear that I have no problems with any attorney who is asked to advise or defend an accused against potential criminal charges. It's part of the system. I don't happen to have the stomach for criminal defense, but that's my personality rather than anything else. I've defended some pretty sleazy people over the years in civil cases. Part of the job: you can pick your nose but you can't always pick your clients. Or their noses.

http://photos.imageevent.com/exhibitman/dropins/Violet%20picker.gif

[tschock]

So you read enough of their articles to have used up all your free ones for the month, but you think it's worthless???

Bobby can speak for himself, but free is not the same as worthless. And he never said worthless. Just that he wouldn't pay them any money. There IS a difference.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

worse? Morally? Ethically? I don't lose sleep over giving a company - that is clearly operating to the detriment of the hobby, many collectors whom I know, and other companies that are doing things the right way as long as I get my money - my baseball cards to sell on ebay for me.

fyp

[Exhibitman]

right now, PWCC has no viable counterparts.

Yeah, actually, there are. COMC, Probstein, and any number of other eBay consignment sellers exist. I bet some of the sellers here would happily take consignments to sell on eBay. Even some AHs sell on eBay regularly. You don't have to do business with PWCC unless you want to.

[tschock]

fyp

<strike>Thanks, Scott. Glad to know it wasn't just me that was reading between the lines. :)</strike>

Actually, that might not be a bad thing if you think about it. It makes it one-stop shopping avoidance. Avoid PWCC and it helps avoid those who have no qualms consigning to PWCC.

[jhs5120]

Yeah, actually, there are. COMC, Probstein, and any number of other eBay consignment sellers exist. I bet some of the sellers here would happily take consignments to sell on eBay. Even some AHs sell on eBay regularly. You don't have to do business with PWCC unless you want to.

Does COMC do auctions? I thought they were just buy it nows? Probstein has more issues than PWCC. Does Greg Morris have the same sort of consignment portal?

I have sent consignments to maybe a dozen AH's. I currently have consignments with LOTG and HA. If I have a bunch of lower-end cards, PWCC is by far the easiest. Then again, I am always open to other recommendations.

[frankbmd]

Bobby can speak for himself, but free is not the same as worthless. And he never said worthless. Just that he wouldn't pay them any money. There IS a difference.

Got it

None cents isn’t worthless. ;)

[tschock]

Got it

None cents isn’t worthless. ;)

Yes, to the user. If you have a stack of printer/copier paper only used on one side, I'll take it and use it. But I won't pay you for it. But I won't pay you for your used toilet paper, and I wouldn't take it either. Both are worthless but only one is worthless to me. See? :D

[barrysloate]

It appears that the story is circulating widely enough that nearly every collector who has a major investment in baseball cards will know about it. Obviously, not everyone will accept this information the same way. But it's too big for it to be swept under the carpet.

I think it all starts with PSA, and they must make a big choice: to face it head on, even though it will cost them dearly, or dismiss it as a minor blip that shouldn't really worry anybody. It's hard for me to believe that they can get away with the latter approach, but stranger things have happened.

IMO, this is a good time for this industry to make some major changes. They are long overdue.

[Tabe]

I can't read it. It says I have run out of "free stories". And I refuse to pay The Washington Post a copper penny. If someone can post it here somehow, or a link I can read, that would be AWESOME!!!!

In your browser, press CTRL-SHIFT-N to open a new private/icognito window. Then paste the URL of the story into that window. Boom, done.

[Tabe]

The bigger question is why didn't the Washington Post run before and after photos of a doctored card. I can't imagine they wouldn't have permission from the BODA people to do so.

Because whoever took those photos owns the rights to those photos and would have to get paid for their use, or grant permission for their use. And I imagine they aren't too eager to do that. :)

I work at a big newspaper and the rules for photo usage have gotten insane. Even star publicity photos, which ostensibly were taken for PUBLICITY, require permission for use. Otherwise the photographer wants paid.

I agree using the SGC photo is bad. That's just lazy. Someone not paying attention.
Since the items are newsworthy, wouldn't use of the photos fall under fair use?

[Jim65]

These guys will start turning on each other. Getting interviewed by the FBI and the prospect of jail time tends to do that.

[Bicem]

Worse? Morally? Ethically? I don't lose sleep over giving a company my baseball cards to sell on eBay for me.

Clearly... hence my original statement of the fraud dismissal.

[bobbyw8469]

Bobby can speak for himself, but free is not the same as worthless. And he never said worthless. Just that he wouldn't pay them any money. There IS a difference.

Thank you. I read political post. The Washington Post's liberal stance when I google certain political happenings get me riled up. I tend to read them, because I can't comprehend someone being that stupid. But I didn't want to make it (meaning my reply in this post) political. So yes, I am no longer allowed to pursue WP articles. And no, I won't be paying them. Just like I don't want to watch CNN. To each their own.

[bobbyw8469]

In your browser, press CTRL-SHIFT-N to open a new private/icognito window. Then paste the URL of the story into that window. Boom, done.

Thank you Chris.

[rhettyeakley]

Good point, I mean what's a little fraud between friends?

Lol! Seriously, how little personal integrity does one have to have to still be doing business with them!?!

"A Man is Known by the Company He Keeps" <——-THIS!

[cubsguy1969]

Since the items are newsworthy, wouldn't use of the photos fall under fair use?

I'm pretty sure not. If that were the case, a newspaper photographer could go out, take a photo of a huge news event, post it on the newspaper's site and then anyone could grab it because the event was "newsworthy." Whoever took the photo owns the rights to it. Or the person who paid that person owns the rights. You could run it in your newspaper if you want, but that person could send you a hefty bill for using it. This stuff happens all the time now online. People grab photos from sites and use them for their own purposes. Photographers are coming after these people hard. Pay me! As they should. It's their work. You can't just take it.

[MULLINS5]

Honestly, selling on eBay sucks. I appreciate that some collectors do not regularly sell items, but I do. I would prefer to send it to someone who can reliably sell my items than spend my time doing it myself. I am not going to take time away from my life because of this scandal. If someone wants to come up with a similar platform, fine, I will consider switching. However, right now, PWCC has no viable counterparts.

I won't do business with PWCC, but I agree with Jason. PWCC has a great model for collectors to sell their cards. It's really amazing what Brent built, unfortunately it seems like it was built on fraud.

[AustinMike]

Thank you. I read political post. The Washington Post's liberal stance when I google certain political happenings get me riled up. I tend to read them, because I can't comprehend someone being that stupid. But I didn't want to make it (meaning my reply in this post) political. So yes, I am no longer allowed to pursue WP articles. And no, I won't be paying them. Just like I don't want to watch CNN. To each their own.

But you did it anyway.

Thank you. I read political post. The Washington Post's liberal stance when I google certain political happenings get me riled up. I tend to read them, because I can't comprehend someone being that stupid. But I didn't want to make it (meaning my reply in this post) political. So yes, I am no longer allowed to pursue WP articles. And no, I won't be paying them. Just like I don't want to watch CNN. To each their own.

My thoughts about you.

[drcy]

My thoughts about you.

My thoughts about both of you.

just kidding :D

[AustinMike]

My thoughts about both of you.

just kidding :D

I know, right?

Peter posts a link to an interesting article and despite the "no politics" rule on this forum, some d!ckwad decides to make a political statement. He does it knowing full well that it is not allowed (he did it a month or so ago in another thread where it was pointed out it is not allowed). He does it while insulting a large number of members of this forum. He does it while stupidly saying "I am no longer allowed to pursue WP articles" as he's pursuing a way to read the article. Then another d!ckwad comes along and points out his political post and his stupidity. At least the second d!ckwad made no political statement and only insulted one person, the original stupid d!ckwad. Not much of a defense, but it's all I got.

Peter, my apologies for adding to the distraction of this thread. I also want to thank you for all the information you've posted on this forum regarding PWCC, PSA, and Moser. I know the vast majority is from Blowout, but since I don't read that forum, I would have missed it.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Yeah, not sure what the Post's general leanings really had to do with an article by one of their sports reporters about baseball cards, but whatever.

[Leon]

You can't choose not to take a client? Please help me understand how you have been forced to take a client?
If you were a criminal defense lawyer would you defend pwcc? I am sure I am just not understanding.


Actually, there are certain circumstances where the fact of representation could be a client confidence that an attorney could not reveal without the client's permission, so some attorneys might not be able to answer the question.

I also want to make clear that I have no problems with any attorney who is asked to advise or defend an accused against potential criminal charges. It's part of the system. I don't happen to have the stomach for criminal defense, but that's my personality rather than anything else. I've defended some pretty sleazy people over the years in civil cases. Part of the job: you can pick your nose but you can't always pick your clients. Or their noses.

http://photos.imageevent.com/exhibitman/dropins/Violet%20picker.gif

[jimjim]

When my Dad calls me to ask me about the baseball card scandal, you know it has hit the main stream. He knows nothing about the industry or hobby. He read about it in a local newspaper.

[WhenItWasAHobby]

Good article and I'm glad the issue is becoming a widespread news story - although it's actually an old, ongoing problem with new evidence.

One part of the article that was newsworthy to me was the following statement:

The scandal started after a pair of online collectors began identifying and documenting cards that were allegedly improperly modified. They’ve identified 316 such cards, retouched by nearly a dozen “card doctors,” which sold for a combined $1.4 million.

I'm curious who these alleged dozen doctors are? Only one was alleged in the article by name. (Although I'm very sure there's far more than a dozen involved).

[Peter_Spaeth]

Good article and I'm glad the issue is becoming a widespread news story - although it's actually an old, ongoing problem with new evidence.

One part of the article that was newsworthy to me was the following statement:

The scandal started after a pair of online collectors began identifying and documenting cards that were allegedly improperly modified. They’ve identified 316 such cards, retouched by nearly a dozen “card doctors,” which sold for a combined $1.4 million.

I'm curious who these alleged dozen doctors are? Only one was alleged in the article by name. (Although I'm very sure there's far more than a dozen involved).

I told Jacob there were many and that Gary was far from the only one. I didn't give a number and I didn't use names. Now he MAY be getting it from adding up all the modern trimmers accused on BO? There are certainly quite a few that I have seen.

[swarmee]

http://www.sportscardradio.com/
There's a whole slew of them that blowout guys have discovered in the past year. And if the FBI casts a wider net to include the PSA submission records of auctionhouses, it might uncover quite a few more. I'd like to see them subpeona the records of Dick Towle.

And the IRS should definitely be taking a harder look at these guys.

[cincyredlegs]

I wonder how many people defending pwcc or what is going on is actually alts of the criminals. We already know Bobby has one or two alts where he defends vcp. There is no logical reason how you could defend it.

[WhenItWasAHobby]

http://www.sportscardradio.com/
There's a whole slew of them that blowout guys have discovered in the past year. And if the FBI casts a wider net to include the PSA submission records of auctionhouses, it might uncover quite a few more. I'd like to see them subpeona the records of Dick Towle.

And the IRS should definitely be taking a harder look at these guys.

Interesting link. Some of the aliases made me chuckle. Thanks for laughs and I can assure you there are more than what was revealed on that website.

[drcy]

I wonder how many people defending pwcc or what is going on is actually alts of the criminals. We already know Bobby has one or two alts where he defends vcp. There is no logical reason how you could defend it.

If someone publicly posts that he still buys his cards from PWCC, I hope it doesn't surprise him when he turns to sell that others don't buy from him.