Hats off to the USWNT

[oldjudge]

Hats off to the U.S. Woman’s National soccer team, and especially Megan Rapinoe. They talked big and backed it up. Forget equal pay for the men’s and woman’s teams. The men are horrible and no threat to win anything. The women should be paid more than the men. They are the best in the world and likely to stay that way.

[Al C.risafulli]

SO much fun to watch that game yesterday!

-Al

[bnorth]

SO much fun to watch that game yesterday!

-Al

+1 it was a great game to watch.

We(most of us) should move to collecting womens soccer cards. Wouldn't it make much more sense to collect pictures of younger athletic women in uniforms. That would just make us creepy old men. Now collecting younger athletic men in uniforms makes us look like........

Before anyone gets all offended that is a joke but if you are still offended fire away.;)

[drcy]

No politics.

:)

[oldjudge]

David—Who are you referring to? If you are referring to the initial post there is no politics in it. Politics is the way countries are governed and the ways governments make rules and laws. Mine was simply a comment about how our national soccer teams are run.

[drcy]

David—Who are you referring to? If you are referring to the initial post there is no politics in it. Politics is the way countries are governed and the ways governments make rules and laws. Mine was simply a comment about how our national soccer teams are run.

It was a response to the OP and was just a joke.

[oldjudge]

It was a response to the OP and was just a joke.

LOL, no problem. Sometimes, when walking down the old West streets of Net 54, you draw first and ask questions later.

[Jim65]

Hats off to the U.S. Woman’s National soccer team, and especially Megan Rapinoe. They talked big and backed it up. Forget equal pay for the men’s and woman’s teams. The men are horrible and no threat to win anything. The women should be paid more than the men. They are the best in the world and likely to stay that way.

The Mens World Cup brings in way, way more money. 6 Billion vs 130 Million were the figures I heard on ESPN. Equal pay will happen when the Women generate the revenue.

I enjoyed watching the World Cup. When I watch the Men I root for the US until they are eliminated, then I root for Germany. Its nice to root for the US Women from beginning to end.

[steve B]

The Mens World Cup brings in way, way more money. 6 Billion vs 130 Million were the figures I heard on ESPN. Equal pay will happen when the Women generate the revenue.

I enjoyed watching the World Cup. When I watch the Men I root for the US until they are eliminated, then I root for Germany. Its nice to root for the US Women from beginning to end.

That's the worldwide number, and it makes the international prize money make sense. The US pay and bonus money is also a lot less than the mens team, but the womens team has earned more three years in a row.

[steve B]

+1 it was a great game to watch.

We(most of us) should move to collecting womens soccer cards. Wouldn't it make much more sense to collect pictures of younger athletic women in uniforms. That would just make us creepy old men. Now collecting younger athletic men in uniforms makes us look like........

Before anyone gets all offended that is a joke but if you are still offended fire away.;)

Were you collecting when the benchwarmers cards were current? :D

Now we're both in trouble.....

[Stonepony]

My son and daughter were at the game. Sounds like it was amazing!

[Kenny Cole]

The Mens World Cup brings in way, way more money. 6 Billion vs 130 Million were the figures I heard on ESPN. Equal pay will happen when the Women generate the revenue.

I enjoyed watching the World Cup. When I watch the Men I root for the US until they are eliminated, then I root for Germany. Its nice to root for the US Women from beginning to end.

If pay is in any way based on performance (and I recognize that it often is not), it is more than clear that the women are VASTLY underpaid and the men are VASTLY overpaid. That is a no-brainer IMO. I hope they win their lawsuit.

[egbeachley]

Hard to lose when there is no competition. Women’s national soccer teams throughout the world are just an afterthought.

[PolarBear]

They should play the men's team, double or nothing.

[skelly]

I’m the bad guy... My mom is English and I was pulling hard for the English team to beat the US. It means so much more to the average fan in these other countries. Also, let me be clear, I have never won a Olympic medal, World Cup, professional sport. I have played college sports and had three shoulder surgeries, so I get their sacrifice to win the gold.
My issue is this, we should win the gold every World Cup. We have so many ladies playing soccer in this country, and our population is tremendous. Can’t compare the guys to the girls. Best male athletes in America usually gravitate towards track, football or basketball.

[lancemountain]

Hard to lose when there is no competition. Women’s national soccer teams throughout the world are just an afterthought.



Ignorant statement. All of Western Europe, Japan/Korea/Oceana, North America and the whole of South America put a great emphasis on women’s football. Saying woman’s sports are an afterthought in these regions shows your lack of knowledge of international woman’s sports. It’s the elite sport for women in all these regions.

It just so happens we have superior infrastructure to any other nation in the world. USA woman’s football will always be the class of the world. If it wasn’t for baseball and basketball, USA would also dominate in men’s football as well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[lancemountain]

The Mens World Cup brings in way, way more money. 6 Billion vs 130 Million were the figures I heard on ESPN. Equal pay will happen when the Women generate the revenue.



I enjoyed watching the World Cup. When I watch the Men I root for the US until they are eliminated, then I root for Germany. Its nice to root for the US Women from beginning to end.



The issue is not only the pay but the treatment. The women aren’t afforded the same travel, pay and hospitality as the men. By the letter of the law they should be equal.

I’m not talking about the the World Cup. The men’s tourney generates billions while the woman’s generates tens of millions.

It’s the pay for friendlies, practice, travel and the club wage structures.

In short: the men are payed more and treated better for those things despite drawing less TV revenue. Getting to the World Cup? Fair play, you get paid more because the men’s tourney is richer. But it’s the rest of the program that’s wacky.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Kenny Cole]

Hard to lose when there is no competition. Women’s national soccer teams throughout the world are just an afterthought.

Here's a thought: Celebrate their achievements, which are fairly epic. Or are you just too big a pig to do that?

[oldjudge]

Hard to lose when there is no competition. Women’s national soccer teams throughout the world are just an afterthought.

The men’s team are the Washington Generals of the soccer world. People don’t pay big bucks to watch them, they pay big bucks to see the team that will beat them. In 2018, they got knocked out of the World Cup by that perennial soccer power Trinidad and Tobago, a country with less people than a few Manhattan high rises.
The easy solution to the salary issue is pay both the men and women the same amount per game won in the World Cup. Their salary should be based on performance. It’s not like this will hurt our men’s team’s performance. They will lose either way. The woman’s team is a source of national pride. The men’s team, not so much.

[Kenny Cole]

The men’s team are the Washington Generals of the soccer world. People don’t pay big bucks to watch them, they pay big bucks to see the team that will beat them. In 2018, they got knocked out of the World Cup by that perennial soccer power Trinidad and Tobago, a country with less people than a few Manhattan high rises.
The easy solution to the salary issue is pay both the men and women the same amount per game won in the World Cup. Their salary should be based on performance. It’s not like this will hurt our men’s team’s performance. They will lose either way. The woman’s team is a source of national pride. The men’s team, not so much.

Wow. A completely revolutionary idea. And I historically don't even like soccer, at least when the men play. I would rather watch grass grow.
But I watched the last 3 women's games. And I got into it. I have never before admitted that. :confused:

[Jim65]

They should play the men's team, double or nothing.

Didn't the Womens team lose to 15 year old boys?

[Jim65]

That's the worldwide number, and it makes the international prize money make sense. The US pay and bonus money is also a lot less than the mens team, but the womens team has earned more three years in a row.

Then they should get paid more, period.

[scottglevy]

It’s cool to have a local tie to this team. My country club (Trenton CC) assistant golf pro (Brian Hollis) is married to Carli Lloyd. Unfortunately, Brian has recently moved on to another CC as their head pro ... but Carli has even appeared in person on occasion ... very cool.

[PolarBear]

Didn't the Womens team lose to 15 year old boys?


Maybe we should pay high school soccer players more then.

[packs]

That high school game was nothing more than a scrimmage. Major League teams lose to college teams during spring training all the time. You can bet that no one wasted their energy playing a meaningless game while tuning up for games that mattered. For reference, that loss came before matches against Russia and other professional teams. I would doubt the same effort went into each.

The men's team is a disgrace. None of them can hack it on a field with the world's best players. The women's team is the team with the world's best players. Comparisons aren't even close. The women deserve the glory and the money that comes with it. Why should the men be paid to be terrible? Let them buy their own plane tickets.

[Leon]

Again, imo, you are borderline needing your name out here to get into a spirited debate. Be careful.
As a business person, and from a pragmatic thought, the monies earned should be relative to the profits. However., both teams (men and women) SHOULD have equal accommodations.
I sort of preach that the money you make in life is relative to the value you bring to your audience or your employer. Pay is also relative to how many people can do your job at your skill level. That is the way people earn money (in my view). It is why 18 yrs old kids get multi multi million dollar contracts every day in sports. It is why burger flippers (I was one for years when I was younger) can only ever make a certain amount. It is because it doesn't take a rocket scientist, or professional athlete, to flip burgers. And those high paid people are generally (at least supposed to) be good ROIs.

That high school game was nothing more than a scrimmage. Major League teams lose to college teams during spring training all the time. You can bet that no one wasted their energy playing a meaningless game while tuning up for games that mattered. For reference, that loss came before matches against Russia and other professional teams. I would doubt the same effort went into each.

The men's team is a disgrace. None of them can hack it on a field with the world's best players. The women's team is the team with the world's best players. Comparisons aren't even close. The women deserve the glory and the money that comes with it. Why should the men be paid to be terrible? Let them buy their own plane tickets.

[packs]

I would think there is room for considering why a men's tournament might bring in the money it is. I highly doubt the men's tournament receives some kind of boon from the US team's participation. People pay to see Messi and the like, not the US players. The US team is just in the tournament. The women's team IS the tournament. Their team has won 4 cups, including 2 in a row.

[drcy]

"In many soccer-dominant countries, women weren't traditionally allowed or encouraged to play soccer because it was a 'man's sport.' That philosophy/sentiment hasn't existed in the United States.

That American women do so well in many sports internationally is a social commentary on our country-- and counters the recent 'U.S. as regressive' arguments of some. It also helps, that we're a large country (third largest population).

[Snapolit1]

Why is it that we can field the best women's team in the world for a number of years, yet the men suck? Any theories out there? I suspect many more men have been playing soccer in the US for more years than girls/women.

[drcy]

Why is it that we can field the best women's team in the world for a number of years, yet the men suck? Any theories out there? I suspect many more men have been playing soccer in the US for more years than girls/women.

In many soccer-dominant countries, women weren't traditionally allowed or encouraged to play soccer because it was a 'man's sport.' That philosophy/sentiment hasn't existed in the United States.

That American women do so well in many sports internationally is a social commentary on our country-- and is an argument that counters the recent 'U.S. as relatively (I said relatively not absolutely) regressive towards women' arguments of some. It also helps, that we're a large country (third largest population).

[packs]

Someone mentioned the level of competition earlier, but I think it's actually a good point in a different light. I just don't think there is any major competition among the men in this country when it comes to soccer. I think women are much more competitive soccer players and that's why their team is made of up of higher caliber players that are able to compete globally. We don't have a large enough talent pool of men playing the sport to truly create a best of the best type of team, like say Brazil is able to do so often.

[egbeachley]

Here's a thought: Celebrate their achievements, which are fairly epic. Or are you just too big a pig to do that?

To be transparent, I feel the same way about the Dream Team winning gold medals in basketball. Not even a competition

[oldjudge]

Soccer is a major sport for girls in high school. For boys, soccer is a secondary sport.

[prewarsports]

A couple thoughts.

Why does everyone feel the need to immediately jump from the womens team to bashing on the men? Just celebrate the women, they deserve it.

I think people are being way too hard on the men's team. We were one of the last developed countries to start taking soccer seriously and compared to others that live and breath soccer (like England) we have fared just as good or better than most other nations. It was not until 1994 that mens soccer even really existed in the United States and if you look at our record since then, we have done just fine and are trending upwards. We just played for a gold cup on the same night as the women, played very well against a dominant Mexico team and are trending up in the sport with one of the youngest national teams.

You cant take our population as a whole in the mens game, because we divide up our athletic talent among so many other sports. Assume football and basketball dont exist and ALL our young boys play is soccer. Who knows how good athletes like Lebron James or Odell Beckham would have been at soccer if that is all they did. In these other countries that is the case. Despite what some people are saying on here, we are not even CLOSE to the laughing stock of the soccer world. We also have some really good young talent as the game starts to develop here in the U.S. and I would not be surprised if we made it to a World Cup final or even won it in my lifetime (next 40 years).

As for the women, I applaud their success and think it was great they won. Anything that is good for the game of soccer in the United States is great.

If they played the mens team and they tried their best for 90 minutes, Vegas would have to set the line at 20-0 or more. Not a disrespectful statement, just the flat out truth.

Congrats to the women, it is awesome that they are so dominant. I just can not understand why every statement anyone makes about the women has to turn into mens team bashing.

[Exhibitman]

Nevermind the other stuff; that was a very exciting tournament and a great final. My whole family got up early Sunday morning to watch. I picked up this Rapinoe Panini sticker earlier last week:

http://photos.imageevent.com/exhibitman/miscellaneous5/websize/img678%20-%20Copy%20_2_.jpg

Sometimes an athlete emerges as the undisputed finest in the world; Rapinoe won the Golden Shoe and the Golden Ball in the 2019 World Cup, so she is indisputably the best woman 'footballer' in the world. Happy to add her to my modest soccer collection.

[ALR-bishop]

I went to college in the late 60s and early 70s at SLU. In the 60s and 70s SLU was as dominant in soccer as UCLA was in basketball. National Champions in 59, 60, 62. 63, 65, 67, 69,70, 72 and 73. All with local players. Then other colleges began recruiting foreign players. They have never been a power since

I enjoy watching the women's team play. As for pay, my view is it should be tied to revenue generated not success on the field.

[MULLINS5]

I thought this was about playing for and representing your country rather than making gobs more money than they're making now.

From my understanding, the women players make a higher percentage than men, but ends up in less dollars because men's soccer brings in 45X more revenue than women.

It's like WNBA vs NBA salary. The average starting salary for a WNBA player is $75k vs $850k for NBA.

[oldjudge]

Rhys--As I was reminded by Leon, I think you need your name on your post.

As for the U.S. just taking men's soccer seriously, we won two medals for soccer in the 1904 Olympics. Our team is not good, it's piss poor. We got knocked out of the 2018 World Cup by Trinidad and Tobago, a team that had lost seven games in a row. I don't know what their training facilities are like but I don't think they rival ours. We have several hundred times more people than they do. The truth is that very few people in this country care about men's soccer and if they do it is as fans of various foreign professional teams. We don't have to compete in every sport. We should just admit that as a country we don't care about men's soccer and direct the funding to sports we do care about.


"If they played the mens team and they tried their best for 90 minutes, Vegas would have to set the line at 20-0 or more. Not a disrespectful statement, just the flat out truth."

We both know this is an incredibly stupid comparison. There are physical differences which do not allow woman to match men in speed or strength. The relevant comparison is how they perform relative to their peers and here the women win and the men lose.

[oldjudge]

I thought this was about playing for and representing your country rather than making gobs more money than they're making now.

From my understanding, the women players make a higher percentage than men, but ends up in less dollars because men's soccer brings in 45X more revenue than women.

It's like WNBA vs NBA salary. The average starting salary for a WNBA player is $75k vs $850k for NBA.
Patrick--Actually, it is worse in the WNBA. The rookie starting salary is under $40,000 and the max salary is about $117,000. That is why the WNBA season is the offseason for most of the stars. They make a lot more money playing in Russia and China.
Again, the revenue comes into U.S. men's soccer because people want to see the teams we play, not us. If you paid the men the same as the women you probably wouldn't lose one men's player, and even if you did it wouldn't impact the W-L record.

[rhettyeakley]

3.6 billion people watched the 2018 Men’s World Cup, compared that to 750 million for the 2015 women’s World Cup (and the ratings are down this year vs then). That is why they are paid what they are around the world.

Jay, you obviously have an issue with the Men’s Soccer team, that being said the rest of the world cares infinitely more about the men’s game than the women’s game. It may seem unfair but that is the reality.

I agree the accommodations should be the same for the two teams but the pay disparity is due to the difference in demand for the two sports. Similar to the NBA vs the WNBA... not very many people care about the WNBA and a strong argument can be made that if they weren’t helped by the NBA they probably wouldn’t even exist today.

You can complain about the lack of success that the men have had all you want but the reality is that they are playing a game (Men’s soccer) that has many more fans in the world and have a higher rate of competition than the other game (women’s soccer). The Trinidad loss was an embarrassment for the men’s team for sure but they do not lose to teams like that regularly.

Celebrate the Women’s victory, it is a source of pride for the country as a whole, I was rooting hard for them the whole time. That being said I just don’t know why you have to make it a point to ridicule the men’s team in the same breath.

[oldjudge]

Rhett-I was not saying the woman's sport is more popular than the men's sport worldwide. What I was saying is that the U.S. men's team is not why it is popular. I continue to believe that both teams should be paid based on performance.

[Tabe]

That high school game was nothing more than a scrimmage. Major League teams lose to college teams during spring training all the time.

Not even close to the same thing.

We're talking about a professional All-Star team (the USWNT) losing to 14 & 15-year olds. The team they played was a U15 boys squad. Anyway that gets dressed up, it's embarrassing.

[packs]

Not even close to the same thing.

We're talking about a professional All-Star team (the USWNT) losing to 14 & 15-year olds. The team they played was a U15 boys squad. Anyway that gets dressed up, it's embarrassing.

It was a game they played for fun. I don't see why they would have put any effort into it. What pleasure can a professional athlete get out of dominating high school students?

[Tabe]

It was a game they played for fun. I don't see why they would have put any effort into it. What pleasure can a professional athlete get out of dominating high school students?

What makes you so sure they would have dominated them? There's no evidence of it. They had a chance - and got blown out.

You think the NBA All-Stars would ever lose by 35 to 14 & 15-year olds, regardless of the circumstances? Of course not.

The "it was played for fun" is what defenders of the USWNT say to try and justify losing to a U15 boys team. It just doesn't hold up. Also, the game was intended as a way to stay sharp for international games coming up. So you're saying that, as prep for international games, they just farted around and didn't try hard?

[packs]

You may find this article interesting

https://offthedribble.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/05/09/the-dream-teams-very-bad-day/

[calvindog]

You may find this article interesting

https://offthedribble.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/05/09/the-dream-teams-very-bad-day/

Those players on the college all-star team would all have been in the NBA today at the same age they played the Dream Team. I’m not sure you can compare that team to a junior high team of stars.

[packs]

That’s an ok stance to take. My stance is games that don’t matter don’t matter. Jackie Mitchell struck out Babe Ruth and Lou Gehrig back to back in an exhibition game. How much weight gets put onto something like that? It's interesting that it happened, but ultimately it doesn't say much about the people involved.

[Exhibitman]

Wes Ferrell told a story about getting shelled by a semi-pro team in an 'easy money' exhibition game.

[Tabe]

You may find this article interesting

https://offthedribble.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/05/09/the-dream-teams-very-bad-day/

I assumed this would get brought up. That college team had Grant Hill - a Hall of Famer - and multiple all-NBA players on it. That college team would have beaten pretty much every other team in the world by 30.

And they won by 8.

The USWNT lost to a bunch of kids, most of whom will never play pro, let alone at the very, very peak of their sport. And they got blown out.

BIG difference.

[RedsFan1941]

my granddaughter once beat me in nine holes of putt putt golf.

[prewarsports]

The team the USWNT lost to was an FC Dallas u15 Academy team. I have high school players on my team that have left and played for these academies and I know them VERY well so let me put that into a bit of perspective.

There are 24 MLS teams in the U.S. and each has an Academy. Within each academy there are teams for the different age groups (U15-U17 etc.). This is the absolute youngest group of boys in one of 24 different academies that spread the talent so thin that many of these young men do not even get scholarships to four year universities, after four years of maturing beyond the u15 level. These are recently graduated middle schoolers or at best, freshman in high school. The best of the best usually skip these academies anyways as they are more about $$ than talent.

This was far from the best 15 year old in the country, and they won 5-2.

Again, hats of to the USWNT, they are awesome and I watch their games. They deserve every single bit of attention they are getting for their play. I just do not understand for the life of me why anyone needs to bring the mens team into the debate or start talking about pay gaps etc. Just celebrate the accomplishment.

[oldjudge]

Great. Many male college tennis players could beat Serena Williams. Should she earn less money than her male counterparts?

[egbeachley]

Great. Many male college tennis players could beat Serena Williams. Should she earn less money than her male counterparts?

I would have said no. But when you phrase it that way I guess the answer is yes.

[calvindog]

Great. Many male college tennis players could beat Serena Williams. Should she earn less money than her male counterparts?

Like any other profession shouldn’t she be paid based on what she produces and what value she has? The women apparently receive 13% of their revenue and the men 9%. Maybe it’s the women who are overpaid?

[kateighty]

It might sound wrong but personally (and as a woman) I've always felt like Serena was a dude. In which case she'd be great at kicking your butt in regards to your comment Jeffrey. MIC DROP.

[egbeachley]

Like any other profession shouldn’t she be paid based on what she produces and what value she has? The women apparently receive 13% of their revenue and the men 9%. Maybe it’s the women who are overpaid?

Actually women players receive 23% of total World Cup revenue while men players receive 7%.

[kateighty]

Actually women players receive 23% of total World Cup revenue while men players receive 7%.

Bottom line, we're not "women players" or "the women" this terminology has to stop. Were you guys born in 1400? I'm pretty sure Serena would agree with me regardless. Come on guys not cool. And here's to the women reading this. Step up and join.

[prewarsports]

Not one person on here has said anything disrespectful of women. Everyone on here is praising their accomplishments and relishing how good they are compared to their peers. What exactly has to stop, the word "women". Calling it "women's soccer" is offensive? What would you like us to call the team?

Also, it is the USWNT who are making the distinction to their pay v. men and trying to rally people to their cause and talking about the fairness. They have taken shots at the men and the debate has hijacked the World Cup, which is why a simple thread praising their accomplishments immediately took a turn to the "fairness" question just like everywhere else anyone is talking about women's soccer. I have not heard one single thing from a male athlete saying one negative thing against the ladies so when you bring attention to your cause and then people debate the merits of it, that is completely fine and sets nobody back to the year 1400.

[kateighty]

This is my exact point prewarsports. Maybe invest in some glasses. My quotes were about other terms that were used. I never said or used the term "women's soccer" so check yourself. Please show me the exact quote where I said "women's soccer is offensive" because I never did. If you're going to make shit up and defame me you better have your name.

[oldjudge]

Like any other profession shouldn’t she be paid based on what she produces and what value she has? The women apparently receive 13% of their revenue and the men 9%. Maybe it’s the women who are overpaid?

Jeff-First, I have trouble understanding those figures. The US men did not even play in the 2018 World Cup. They were knocked out by Trinidad and Tobago. To be kind, the men’s team is mediocre. The men’s sport is bigger and the men’s tournament generates a lot more revenue. I understand that. However, our men’s team doesn’t generate its’ fair share of the revenue any more than the Washington Generals generated its’ fair share of the revenues when it played the Globetrotters. The US soccer federation can allocate their income to the players as it sees fit. The USWNT is a source of national pride and an inspiration to youngsters growing up. How can they not be compensated at least as well as the men?
In Olympic competition US athletes are compensated based on how they do. I competed in the US Olympic curling trials many moons ago. We were told that if we became the US team and won a gold we would get I believe $25,000. A silver was $10,000, and a bronze was $5,000. I think all US Olympic athletes are compensated based on results. I think that the soccer teams should be compensated in a similar fashion.

[kateighty]

Jeff-First, I have trouble understanding those figures. The US men did not even play in the 2018 World Cup. They were knocked out by Trinidad and Tobago. To be kind, the men’s team is mediocre. The men’s sport is bigger and the men’s tournament generates a lot more revenue. I understand that. However, our men’s team doesn’t generate its’ fair share of the revenue any more than the Washington Generals generated its’ fair share of the revenues when it played the Globetrotters. The US soccer federation can allocate their income to the players as it sees fit. The USWNT is a source of national pride and an inspiration to youngsters growing up. How can they not be compensated at least as well as the men?
In Olympic competition US athletes are compensated based on how they do. I competed in the US Olympic curling trials many moons ago. We were told that if we became the US team and won a gold we would get I believe $25,000. A silver was $10,000, and a bronze was $5,000. I think all US Olympic athletes are compensated based on results. I think that the soccer teams should be compensated in a similar fashion.

Well said Jay! Hoping you still get your curl on.

[rhettyeakley]

The men’s World Cup generated $6 billion, of which the participants split $400 million, ~7 percent of the total revenue. The Women’s World Cup is expected to generate $130 million, of which the women’s teams will split $30 million, or about 23 percent of the overall revenue.

You keep saying the Men's team is the Washington Generals of International Soccer and that is just silly. Other than their loss to Trinidad & Tobago in the final qualifying game for the 2018 World Cup the men have qualified for the World Cup every time it was played since 1990. They have been consistently in the top-20 rankings of international squads since the mid-to-late 1990's. Soccer is a funny sport, often times a superior team will lose. (which makes the Women's current run very impressive I might add)

Case in point... in 2017 when the USA lost to Trinidad&Tobago all Mexico had to do was beat Honduras to send the US team into a game against Australia to get one of the final bids to the 2018 World Cup and they (Mexico) lost to lowly Honduras 3-2, thus Honduras played in that game against Australia instead. Funny thing is that 4 years earlier Mexico would have missed the World Cup if the US hadn't beat Panama and given Mexico the possibility to play a game to get that same final spot to get into the field. I would hardly say that Mexico is the Washington Generals of Men's Soccer.

[Leon]

This is my exact point prewarsports. Maybe invest in some glasses. My quotes were about other terms that were used. I never said or used the term "women's soccer" so check yourself. Please show me the exact quote where I said "women's soccer is offensive" because I never did. If you're going to make shit up and defame me you better have your name.

Your attempt at having Rhys put his name out here is NOT part of the rules as his link to his auction, in every post, has all of his bio info. From the looks of your tone it seems my PM was spot on. :)

[lancemountain]

The men’s World Cup generated $6 billion, of which the participants split $400 million, ~7 percent of the total revenue. The Women’s World Cup is expected to generate $130 million, of which the women’s teams will split $30 million, or about 23 percent of the overall revenue.

You keep saying the Men's team is the Washington Generals of International Soccer and that is just silly. Other than their loss to Trinidad & Tobago in the final qualifying game for the 2018 World Cup the men have qualified for the World Cup every time it was played since 1990. They have been consistently in the top-20 rankings of international squads since the mid-to-late 1990's. Soccer is a funny sport, often times a superior team will lose. (which makes the Women's current run very impressive I might add)

Case in point... in 2017 when the USA lost to Trinidad&Tobago all Mexico had to do was beat Honduras to send the US team into a game against Australia to get one of the final bids to the 2018 World Cup and they (Mexico) lost to lowly Honduras 3-2, thus Honduras played in that game against Australia instead. Funny thing is that 4 years earlier Mexico would have missed the World Cup if the US hadn't beat Panama and given Mexico the possibility to play a game to get that same final spot to get into the field. I would hardly say that Mexico is the Washington Generals of Men's Soccer.



Well, Mexico clearly did not want to win that game and did everything they could short of explicitly throwing the match. [emoji23]


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[BruceinGa]

The Mens World Cup brings in way, way more money. 6 Billion vs 130 Million were the figures I heard on ESPN. Equal pay will happen when the Women generate the revenue.


++

[darwinbulldog]

I have no objection to the argument that salaries should be proportionate to generated revenue, but I can't see awarding the U.S. men's team or punishing the U.S. women's team on account of the revenue generation that, say, the Argentinian men's team accounts for. If you're going to compensate all players (or teams) equally, that is tantamount to a participation trophy for the teams that are generating less revenue (and as a rule, playing worse) within the tournament. It would be simple enough to run a regression analysis and see how much of the total revenue each team is causally responsible for, and though the men's tournament clearly draws far more attention and money than the women's tournament, I don't know a priori whether the U.S. men's team per se accounts for more or less revenue than does the U.S. women's team.

So if you want to make a strictly economic argument in trying to allocate salaries appropriately for the U.S. men's and women's players, the question shouldn't be "How much money did the men's World Cup make compared to the women's World Cup?". It should be "How much more [or perhaps less] money did each tournament make with the U.S. as a participant relative to what it would have made without the U.S. as a participant?".

A headliner at a small regional music festival may bring in more dollars (or Euros) than a band on the fifth stage at 9:30 A.M. at Glastonbury or Coachella or whatever the kids are going to these days, and so too may certain women's soccer teams, in isolation, account for more in ticket sales than certain men's teams in their respective World Cup tournaments.

[steve B]

As for the U.S. just taking men's soccer seriously, we won two medals for soccer in the 1904 Olympics.

Umm... 1904 was mostly a sideshow for the worlds fair, most of the competitors were from the US.

In Soccer, yes, we earned two medals.
Silver and bronze, in a field that had at total of three teams.....

Canada represented by Galt F.C. won 7-0 and 4-0 over Christian Brothers College and St. Rose Parrish.

St. Rose "won" the Bronze by going 0-2 and scoring no goals.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Posting a card(her first). What other women are considered elite players?

[Leon]

That is my kind of bronze! I think I still have a bowling perfect attendance trophy somewhere.

Umm... 1904 was mostly a sideshow for the worlds fair, most of the competitors were from the US.

In Soccer, yes, we earned two medals.
Silver and bronze, in a field that had at total of three teams.....

Canada represented by Galt F.C. won 7-0 and 4-0 over Christian Brothers College and St. Rose Parrish.

St. Rose "won" the Bronze by going 0-2 and scoring no goals.

[h2oya311]

Posting a card(her first). What other women are considered elite players?

Marta, from Brazil. She has ridiculously sick ball skills (to this day).

I'm late to the party, but I watched almost all of the games for the women's world cup (not just the US). I actually really enjoy watching the women's game much more than the men's game. The women are tougher and are less prone to flopping and diving. There was some of that going on in the women's world cup, but it wasn't nearly as painful as it usually (always?) is when watching the men fall and clutch onto their ankle to waste minutes of time (that should get added on as extra time anyway, but that's besides the point) only to get up moments later to do the same thing two minutes later. It's such a let-down when the momentum is shifting, etc. Buzz kill.

Also, the game is more spread out in the women's game (perhaps due to their size and skill compared to the men) so, to me, it's more tactical and more fun to watch.

Great debate on pay. What do you think some of these women bring in for sponsorship money and advertising compared to the U.S. men? I'm sure Alex Morgan and Megan Rapinoe and a few others are far more popular sports figures than most (all) of the U.S. men's soccer players. They are household names, but I don't think my wife (or kids) could name any of the current U.S. men's team soccer players.

And yes, I still hate Michael Bradley, even though he played pretty darn well throughout the Gold Cup. Who is the "face" of U.S. men's soccer today? Altidore (who didn't even start in all of the games)? Bradley? Pulisic was awesome (and will be a star), but he's certainly not a household name. Landon Donovan, Alexis Lalas, Cobi Jones, Clint Dempsey from years past. Meh. Mia Hamm, Abby Wambach, Alex Morgan, Hope Solo, Brandi Chastain (yep, that one)...they are household names (at least in my house).

I have to imagine that many of these women are doing quite fine for themselves. The solid players that aren't household names, now that's where the compensation debate should really matter. Crystal Dunn, Sauerbrunn, Lavelle, Dahlkemper, Tobin Heath, Ertz, Carli Lloyd. Should they be paid less than the no-namers on the U.S. men's team? For me, the answer is no. But I totally get the other side of the coin with respect to the amount of revenue generated. Tough call. Great debate.

[oldjudge]

Marta, from Brazil. She has ridiculously sick ball skills (to this day).

I'm late to the party, but I watched almost all of the games for the women's world cup (not just the US). I actually really enjoy watching the women's game much more than the men's game. The women are tougher and are less prone to flopping and diving. There was some of that going on in the women's world cup, but it wasn't nearly as painful as it usually (always?) is when watching the men fall and clutch onto their ankle to waste minutes of time (that should get added on as extra time anyway, but that's besides the point) only to get up moments later to do the same thing two minutes later. It's such a let-down when the momentum is shifting, etc. Buzz kill.

Also, the game is more spread out in the women's game (perhaps due to their size and skill compared to the men) so, to me, it's more tactical and more fun to watch.

Great debate on pay. What do you think some of these women bring in for sponsorship money and advertising compared to the U.S. men? I'm sure Alex Morgan and Megan Rapinoe and a few others are far more popular sports figures than most (all) of the U.S. men's soccer players. They are household names, but I don't think my wife (or kids) could name any of the current U.S. men's team soccer players.

And yes, I still hate Michael Bradley, even though he played pretty darn well throughout the Gold Cup. Who is the "face" of U.S. men's soccer today? Altidore (who didn't even start in all of the games)? Bradley? Pulisic was awesome (and will be a star), but he's certainly not a household name. Landon Donovan, Alexis Lalas, Cobi Jones, Clint Dempsey from years past. Meh. Mia Hamm, Abby Wambach, Alex Morgan, Hope Solo, Brandi Chastain (yep, that one)...they are household names (at least in my house).

I have to imagine that many of these women are doing quite fine for themselves. The solid players that aren't household names, now that's where the compensation debate should really matter. Crystal Dunn, Sauerbrunn, Lavelle, Dahlkemper, Tobin Heath, Ertz, Carli Lloyd. Should they be paid less than the no-namers on the U.S. men's team? For me, the answer is no. But I totally get the other side of the coin with respect to the amount of revenue generated. Tough call. Great debate.

+10

[rhettyeakley]

Marta, from Brazil. She has ridiculously sick ball skills (to this day).

I'm late to the party, but I watched almost all of the games for the women's world cup (not just the US). I actually really enjoy watching the women's game much more than the men's game. The women are tougher and are less prone to flopping and diving. There was some of that going on in the women's world cup, but it wasn't nearly as painful as it usually (always?) is when watching the men fall and clutch onto their ankle to waste minutes of time (that should get added on as extra time anyway, but that's besides the point) only to get up moments later to do the same thing two minutes later. It's such a let-down when the momentum is shifting, etc. Buzz kill.

Also, the game is more spread out in the women's game (perhaps due to their size and skill compared to the men) so, to me, it's more tactical and more fun to watch.

Great debate on pay. What do you think some of these women bring in for sponsorship money and advertising compared to the U.S. men? I'm sure Alex Morgan and Megan Rapinoe and a few others are far more popular sports figures than most (all) of the U.S. men's soccer players. They are household names, but I don't think my wife (or kids) could name any of the current U.S. men's team soccer players.

And yes, I still hate Michael Bradley, even though he played pretty darn well throughout the Gold Cup. Who is the "face" of U.S. men's soccer today? Altidore (who didn't even start in all of the games)? Bradley? Pulisic was awesome (and will be a star), but he's certainly not a household name. Landon Donovan, Alexis Lalas, Cobi Jones, Clint Dempsey from years past. Meh. Mia Hamm, Abby Wambach, Alex Morgan, Hope Solo, Brandi Chastain (yep, that one)...they are household names (at least in my house).

I have to imagine that many of these women are doing quite fine for themselves. The solid players that aren't household names, now that's where the compensation debate should really matter. Crystal Dunn, Sauerbrunn, Lavelle, Dahlkemper, Tobin Heath, Ertz, Carli Lloyd. Should they be paid less than the no-namers on the U.S. men's team? For me, the answer is no. But I totally get the other side of the coin with respect to the amount of revenue generated. Tough call. Great debate.

Good take on the situation. I also enjoy watching the women play almost as much as I enjoy watching the men. Definitely two very different styles of soccer/football. The women tend to have more time with the ball and that is why it seems more tactical, the men play at a faster pace and it can seem a bit frenetic, like a more spread version of a hockey game, this mainly due to the speed at which they are closing space and collapsing on the player with the ball.

All that being said and as someone that has played soccer for 35+ years I can’t stand the flops! That may be the biggest reason that soccer has never caught the attention of the average American sports fan, just terrible to watch (I can’t stand Neymar as a player for that reason)

[Orioles1954]

Penalty kicks should be moved back 10 yards. That will discourage much of the flopping in the penalty box.

[rhettyeakley]

Penalty kicks should be moved back 10 yards. That will discourage much of the flopping in the penalty box.

I would love that so much!

In my opinion there should be two versions of the penalty kick, almost like a flagrant 1 or 2 in basketball. If the ball is going in and a non-goalie defender just punches the ball with their hand to prevent the goal then a traditional penalty kick should be awarded, other than blatant issues I would be on board with making the penalty kick a bit tougher and not such a free goal. At the minimum don't require the goalie to be standing on the line, let them be wherever they want within the 6, perhaps.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I hate to see World Cup games decided by shootouts.

[forazzurri2axz]

Hats off to the U.S. Woman’s National soccer team, and especially Megan Rapinoe. They talked big and backed it up. Forget equal pay for the men’s and woman’s teams. The men are horrible and no threat to win anything. The women should be paid more than the men. They are the best in the world and likely to stay that way.

agree 10,000%

[kateighty]

Your attempt at having Rhys put his name out here is NOT part of the rules as his link to his auction, in every post, has all of his bio info. From the looks of your tone it seems my PM was spot on. :)

Depends on which PMs you mean Leon! :) Honestly I'm here to talk about old school baseball. Not women's soccer. My tone was in response to a tone and wording I found offensive. Thanks to everyone who reached out to me with your encouraging words to stay here. It's so very much appreciated. Y'all are the best! I'm not going anywhere other than vacation with my family. Thanks again guys.