1952 Topps Mickey Mantle PSA 8 in PWCC Auction

[jackwesq]

Hi everyone. My apologies as this is post WWII card, but PWCC has the below 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle PSA 8 in their next auction. Will be interesting to watch the bidding.

https://dw7591lwb84er.cloudfront.net/eyJpdiI6IkJEQThTM0pNQmxUVGRvNEx6SU1SXC9RPT0iLCJ2YW x1ZSI6InU2RHlnelpBdzIrKzcrYis1Sms2bFRKcGIxc21IbVc0 eGxWd2JIVmhSbGhVaTFKNCtRS1Y3N1pvMndiczk5XC9zIiwibW FjIjoiZWI3NjhkYjgxM2E1NWU4ODc4ZGY3NTlhZTRhZjAzOTE2 YzcxNDM0OTlmNzY4MDc0ZTQxYTVlYjc5NTI2ZWVjNCJ9

[Steve D]

That exact card was just sold in Heritage's auction on Feb 24, 2019 (less than 4 1/2 months ago), for $456K.


Steve

[Republicaninmass]

Unimprovable condition!

[swarmee]

#becausewetried

Nice card; consignor must be tone deaf or unaware of the current scandal.

[Dpeck100]

#becausewetried

Nice card; consignor must be tone deaf or unaware of the current scandal.

The consignor might be aware of the current situation and not care. It could be a planned sale. It could be sold for a number of reasons.

This scandal is going to blow over just like every storm in the hobby has up to this point.

I am surprised so many people think this is going to be the demise of high grade trading cards.

The 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle is the ultimate symbol of Americana and the price might be higher or it might be lower but you are never going to see the demand for this card evaporate.

There are some who have been calling for PWCC to cancel all of their auctions and others who hope Brent ends up in jail. This might be the ultimate FU saying we still get the goods.

One revelation from this recent situation we have confirmed is that you can use a hidden reserve on PWCC auctions so the odds of this going cheap are quite low I believe.

[bobbyw8469]

This might be the ultimate FU saying we still get the goods.

I still believe this will go lower than the Heritage auction. The consignor will lose a big chunk of money and think to himself, "Why the hell did I consign with them? I don't need any help in losing money". That's just my prediction though.

[Republicaninmass]

My opinion...

Dont delude yourself. Its Brent's card. Like any crook he was going to try the ultimate caper, only now it's getting sold to pay his attorney.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Who knows..

but a lot of times you will hear a collector after a big ticket purchase just trying to get their money back to 'focus on a new direction' in their collection

It seems like this new 'focus' happens after a big ticket purchase...

[1952boyntoncollector]

#becausewetried

Nice card; consignor must be tone deaf or unaware of the current scandal.

thus far not that big of deal....ask 50 random people at the National. how many will think they are 'victims', how many will even know about this scandal...survey says....

Heck how are they supposed to know about the double secret probation

[Dpeck100]

My opinion...

Dont delude yourself. Its Brent's card. Like any crook he was going to try the ultimate caper, only now it's getting sold to pay his attorney.


So what you are saying is he bought it in the Heritage auction and now is forced to liquidate it to pay attorneys fees. Correct?

[Republicaninmass]

So what you are saying is he bought it in the Heritage auction and now is forced to liquidate it to pay attorneys fees. Correct?Makes as much sense as "this will all blow over"

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[Dpeck100]

Makes as much sense as "this will all blow over"

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


Do you still collect autographed cards?

I assume you do.

[Snapolit1]

Here’s a crazy idea .... how about just deciding based on their track record that you will stop doing business with PWCC (if you ever did). Chronicling on a daily basis their alleged fraud for your remaining time on this spinning orb seems a little wasteful.

[Republicaninmass]

Do you still collect autographed cards?



I assume you do.Sure do, but narrow it to Only SGC graded t206s with shaky signatures.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[MULLINS5]

My opinion...

Dont delude yourself. Its Brent's card. Like any crook he was going to try the ultimate caper, only now it's getting sold to pay his attorney.

My thoughts too.

[ullmandds]

So what you are saying is he bought it in the Heritage auction and now is forced to liquidate it to pay attorneys fees. Correct?

this is certainly possible!

[Republicaninmass]

And please dont compare Apples to Eron David, I give you more credit than that.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[wondo]

Here’s a crazy idea .... how about just deciding based on their track record that you will stop doing business with PWCC (if you ever did). Chronicling on a daily basis their alleged fraud for your remaining time on this spinning orb seems a little wasteful.

+1

[Dpeck100]

And please dont compare Apples to Eron David, I give you more credit than that.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


The obvious point is there have been loads of issues with autographs and people still collect them. I believe the same will prove to be true with cards.

A comment was made in a thread I read last night about the range of alterations and what is okay and what isn't okay. I for one as I have said was surprised when I learned that soaking and spooning were all deemed acceptable so it is clear there is a wide range of opinions on what constitutes alteration.

The card that was presented that Sotheby's expert had "restored" gives further credence to the art and antique car analogies. I wonder how many of the collectors that purchase these relics actually care. It might be a lot it might not be as many as people think.

I continue to believe though it is naive to think that if Picasso's can be restored and collector cars can too to mimic their original state that trading cards somehow can't and wont be.

[MULLINS5]

This scandal is going to blow over just like every storm in the hobby has up to this point.

I am surprised so many people think this is going to be the demise of high grade trading cards.

The 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle is the ultimate symbol of Americana and the price might be higher or it might be lower but you are never going to see the demand for this card evaporate.

There are some who have been calling for PWCC to cancel all of their auctions and others who hope Brent ends up in jail. This might be the ultimate FU saying we still get the goods.

One revelation from this recent situation we have confirmed is that you can use a hidden reserve on PWCC auctions so the odds of this going cheap are quite low I believe.

It will not be the demise for graded, but I think a correction is on the way. It won't be overnight.

In general, yes, the 52 Mantle will always be a symbol of Americana. Demand will not evaporate. This particular Mantle's final sale price is tainted, as well as ALL of PWCC'S prices.

Bobby at VCP should remove all PWCC sales prices from their services. Keeping the sales data on his site is knowingly selling false data to his customers. At the very least there should be a PWCC disclaimer. The push for this is coming.

It's not an "FU" to those who want justice. To my knowledge, this Mantle wasn't advertised like previous high "calibur" cards. A 52 Mantle PSA 8 would be pushed on all social media outlets, email blitzes, etc. Correct me if I'm wrong but it just popped up on their next auction with little to no push? It's likely a Brent card being sold to pay attorney fees and reimburse customers for cards THEY altered.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Bobby still has a PWCC ad covering his front page.

[bobbyw8469]

So what you are saying is he bought it in the Heritage auction and now is forced to liquidate it to pay attorneys fees. Correct?

What would the card need to reside in a '10' holder? sharper corners?? It's a big gamble, but if you have done all this "so far", I don't see why not.

[Dpeck100]

It will not be the demise for graded, but I think a correction is on the way. It won't be overnight.

In general, yes, the 52 Mantle will always be a symbol of Americana. Demand will not evaporate. This particular Mantle's final sale price is tainted, as well as ALL of PWCC'S prices.

Bobby at VCP should remove all PWCC sales prices from their services. Keeping the sales data on his site is knowingly selling false data to his customers. At the very least there should be a PWCC disclaimer. The push for this is coming.

It's not an "FU" to those who want justice. To my knowledge, this Mantle wasn't advertised like previous high "calibur" cards. A 52 Mantle PSA 8 would be pushed on all social media outlets, email blitzes, etc. Correct me if I'm wrong but it just popped up on their next auction with little to no push? It's likely a Brent card being sold to pay attorney fees and reimburse customers for cards THEY altered.


Removing PWCC sales from VCP would be a horrible idea. There are thousands and thousands of legit sales that must be taken into consideration that would be removed. This would give an even more false sense of card values.

I am not sure where you guys come up with these theories. There is a lot of speculation out there that to me is dangerous and inflammatory.

[Dpeck100]

What would the card need to reside in a '10' holder? sharper corners?? It's a big gamble, but if you have done all this "so far", I don't see why not.

Yes the lower left corner is clearly an issue.

There are lots of quick flips that take place in trading cards that work and many that don't.

I just think it is very speculative to assume that this is Brent's card and he is selling to pay for his potential legal issues.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I must be missing this, why do people think it's Brent's card? Is it because nobody would consign it to him in this environment?

[Johnny630]

It will not be the demise for graded, but I think a correction is on the way. It won't be overnight.

In general, yes, the 52 Mantle will always be a symbol of Americana. Demand will not evaporate. This particular Mantle's final sale price is tainted, as well as ALL of PWCC'S prices.

Bobby at VCP should remove all PWCC sales prices from their services. Keeping the sales data on his site is knowingly selling false data to his customers. At the very least there should be a PWCC disclaimer. The push for this is coming.

It's not an "FU" to those who want justice. To my knowledge, this Mantle wasn't advertised like previous high "calibur" cards. A 52 Mantle PSA 8 would be pushed on all social media outlets, email blitzes, etc. Correct me if I'm wrong but it just popped up on their next auction with little to no push? It's likely a Brent card being sold to pay attorney fees and reimburse customers for cards THEY altered.

If he is buying back all the bad cards does anyone else think that PSA could be taking care of him on the back end??

[swarmee]

There are some who have been calling for PWCC to cancel all of their auctions and others who hope Brent ends up in jail.
I am one of these people. Every time they continue to sell a tainted PSA card, they increase PSA's liability against the grade guarantee. They are conspiring against PSA by selling their cards. I'm not saying it's bad to sell a PSA 8 Mantle right now; I'm saying it's bad to consign it through PWCC.

[swarmee]

If he is buying back all the bad cards does anyone else think that PSA could be taking care of him on the back end??

When I emailed Steve Sloan to recommend he have the buyers of PWCC cards return them to Brent, I gave him the reasoning that if the sale never happened, the grade guarantee doesn't come into play. Why would PSA pay off cards that were doctored and submitted by Moser or Brent if they didn't have to? Wouldn't that be a fiduciary issue their stockholders would want to know about?

[MULLINS5]

I must be missing this, why do people think it's Brent's card? Is it because nobody would consign it to him in this environment?

For me it's just an educated guess. Could be wrong.

[Johnny630]

When I emailed Steve Sloan to recommend he have the buyers of PWCC cards return them to Brent, I gave him the reasoning that if the sale never happened, the grade guarantee doesn't come into play. Why would PSA pay off cards that were doctored and submitted by Moser or Brent if they didn't have to? Wouldn't that be a fiduciary issue their stockholders would want to know about?

PwCC and mosers contentions will be they had no idea we didn’t doctor any cards, prove it! You guys are supposed to be the Experts with the guarantee ...you slabbed them. Make it right....See in my mind both companies are at fault PSA can’t consistently miss that many bad cards, if they are they really suck at their jobs…… Both companies are covering their asses... It’s going to be very hard to prove that PWCC Or Moser
Allegedly doctored any cards........

[barrysloate]

The consignor might be aware of the current situation and not care. It could be a planned sale. It could be sold for a number of reasons.

This scandal is going to blow over just like every storm in the hobby has up to this point.

I am surprised so many people think this is going to be the demise of high grade trading cards.

The 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle is the ultimate symbol of Americana and the price might be higher or it might be lower but you are never going to see the demand for this card evaporate.

There are some who have been calling for PWCC to cancel all of their auctions and others who hope Brent ends up in jail. This might be the ultimate FU saying we still get the goods.

One revelation from this recent situation we have confirmed is that you can use a hidden reserve on PWCC auctions so the odds of this going cheap are quite low I believe.

David- I don't expect the hobby to collapse over this scandal, but I would likewise be shocked if this entire matter was swept under the carpet and ignored.

PSA needs to acknowledge that they have to produce a better product, and as many collectors as possible should know about this. Then they can decide how they want to proceed. If they want to continue paying world's records for everything, at least they will be doing it with their eyes open.

[PolarBear]

Unimprovable condition!

OK, that was funny. :D

[swarmee]

Hi everyone. My apologies as this is post WWII card, but PWCC has the below 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle PSA 8 in their next auction.
Do you have a source for this?

[Dpeck100]

Do you have a source for this?

It is on their website. Starts July 5th I see.

[Dpeck100]

I am one of these people. Every time they continue to sell a tainted PSA card, they increase PSA's liability against the grade guarantee. They are conspiring against PSA by selling their cards. I'm not saying it's bad to sell a PSA 8 Mantle right now; I'm saying it's bad to consign it through PWCC.


https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/current-auction?search_option=title&q=mantle&view=list&sort_by=time&date=0&items_per_page=50&page=1


I guess. There are nearly 400 Mantle cards coming for sale this week.

Must be a lot of stupid people out there.

[bobbyw8469]

https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/current-auction?search_option=title&q=mantle&view=list&sort_by=time&date=0&items_per_page=50&page=1


I guess. There are nearly 400 Mantle cards coming for sale this week.

Must be a lot of stupid people out there.

I see it everyday. Just listen to a politcal forum for proof.

[frankbmd]

https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/current-auction?search_option=title&q=mantle&view=list&sort_by=time&date=0&items_per_page=50&page=1


I guess. There are nearly 400 Mantle cards coming for sale this week.

Must be a lot of stupid people out there.

Let me see if I understand this correctly.

Only ~15 (I may have counted incorrectly) of the Mantles are blessed with stickers.

Does that mean only 15 are "conserved"?

Are the folks that bid on the stickered cards the stupid ones?

or ......

Are the 385 folks who didn't get their Mantles conserved the stupid ones?

or .....

Are the 385 folks hopeful that Moser will bid on their card(s)?

or ......

Are both true and all 400 people who buy them stupid?

If I don't bid with PWCC, am I stupid?

Are there any contingency plans to increase the size of the Vault in the near future?

Alex, I'll take PWCC for $1000

Why are house guests like dead fish? They begin to stink after three days.

[irv]

This guy from Blowout sums it up perfectly.

"You have to be mentally challenged to buy from pwcc"

[Johnny630]

This guy from Blowout sums it up perfectly.

"You have to be mentally challenged to buy from pwcc"

Nothing Will Change....People are Naive and Ignorant.....

A Fool and His Money Are Soon Parted

[jchcollins]

I continue to believe though it is naive to think that if Picasso's can be restored and collector cars can too to mimic their original state that trading cards somehow can't and wont be.

I used to wonder the same often. The standard retort was that Picasso's and many other works of art are one of a kind; sports cards - even really rare and expensive ones - generally aren't.

Where it matters in reality I believe is whether or not Joe Blow Zillionaire collector of macho-ridiculously-expensive sports cards thinks it matters. And to date I doubt many of those types have even considered the comparison question.

[mechanicalman]

Nothing Will Change....People are Naive and Ignorant.....

A Fool and His Money Are Soon Parted

Is anyone else tired of the narrative that "if you don't think or act exactly as I do, you must inherently be less intelligent than I am?"

[Dpeck100]

I used to wonder the same often. The standard retort was that Picasso's and many other works of art are one of a kind; sports cards - even really rare and expensive ones - generally aren't.

Where it matters in reality I believe is whether or not Joe Blow Zillionaire collector of macho-ridiculously-expensive sports cards thinks it matters. And to date I doubt many of those types have even considered the comparison question.


I have a client that owns close to 20 1950's classic cars and he built a home with a museum attached that appears to be part of the home. When you tour this museum/garage and see how beautiful and near perfect the cars are it reinforces anything is possible.

He has a rare car from the 50's where there are only three known and his has the rare hubcaps that were limited edition. One or two are re-manufactured and the others are refurbished. The car is mint and is a perfect restoration.

In the car world there is an expectation that the cars have been worked on. In the vintage card world it seems there is the same but to what degree.

[Dpeck100]

Is anyone else tired of the narrative that "if you don't think or act exactly as I do, you must inherently be less intelligent than I am?"

Of course but I have dealt with differing opinions from the second I started posting online about cards and just expect it. It hasn't proven to be too smart to take the other side of my arguments.

[frankbmd]

You are clearly the foremost wrestling card collector on the forum.

[nolemmings]

Is anyone else tired of the narrative that "if you don't think or act exactly as I do, you must inherently be less intelligent than I am?"

No one else--just you. You're a moron. :rolleyes:

[jchcollins]

I have a client that owns close to 20 1950's classic cars and he built a home with a museum attached that appears to be part of the home. When you tour this museum/garage and see how beautiful and near perfect the cars are it reinforces anything is possible.

He has a rare car from the 50's where there are only three known and his has the rare hubcaps that were limited edition. One or two are re-manufactured and the others are refurbished. The car is mint and is a perfect restoration.

In the car world there is an expectation that the cars have been worked on. In the vintage card world it seems there is the same but to what degree.

Is it the same base, unspoken expectation that it's simply not reasonable for classic vintage cars to be totally in untouched, factory NOS condition today - but that for cards somehow that might be possible? You can shove a Honus Wagner card in a book for a century, same is not possible with a car? To me it's still something unspoken like this to where we still just unthinkingly want to downgrade a card for any type of alteration. Brent obviously had horrible timing in trying to start a "conservation" discussion a few months back due to what he was up to, but even if not for that - it's not a dicussion that many collectors even want to approach.

[Dpeck100]

Is it the same base, unspoken expectation that it's simply not reasonable for classic vintage cars to be totally in untouched, factory NOS condition today - but that for cards somehow that might be possible? You can shove a Honus Wagner card in a book for a century, same is not possible with a car? To me it's still something unspoken like this to where we still just unthinkingly want to downgrade a card for any type of alteration. Brent obviously had horrible timing in trying to start a "conservation" discussion a few months back due to what he was up to, but even if not for that - it's not a dicussion that many collectors even want to approach.


Yes the timing was poor.

I admittedly do not know what to think about it. Seeing pristine looking cards that came out of tobacco canisters or cracker jack boxes has never really made sense to me. Once I started learning more about the older cards from this forum and hearing about the techniques many use that are considered okay it became clear to me that what I thought was the norm wasn't the norm.

Brent makes it very clear in that video that there are quite a few cards that have been "conserved". He has a very matter of fact look on his face and with being so connected to the hobby and seeing thousands upon thousands of cards I think it is clear he is right. Whether one thinks it is the right opinion or belief appears to be up for debate.

I do find it odd that some who are totally okay with soaking which in my view is attempting to improve the cards appearance or restore it is okay but other methods are worthy of the death penalty.

In life many try and justify wrong doing by saying well others do it or it is not as bad as killing someone etc. but once that line is crossed it is crossed and now you are in new territory.

I can't get in the head of someone buying these cards so I will leave what is okay or acceptable up to them and as I said there may be many of these collectors that are perfectly fine with "conservation" and would rather look at a much nicer card. I have to assume that many of these same collectors have exposure to other high end collectible asset classes and trading cards appears to be the only area where it is taboo but yet still accepted.

Very complicated topic that is for sure.

[jchcollins]

Yes the timing was poor.
Seeing pristine looking cards that came out of tobacco canisters or cracker jack boxes has never really made sense to me. Once I started learning more about the older cards from this forum and hearing about the techniques many use that are considered okay it became clear to me that what I thought was the norm wasn't the norm.


As a kid who started collecting in the late 80's, it was generally unheard of to find even 1950's and 60's Topps cards in super great shape. There were multiple card shops in virtually every town around me back then, but the ones that carried vintage usually had lower grade stuff at best. I remember being excited not because of the card's condition, but because "Hey, that's Hank Aaron."

In more ways than one today maybe the loss of that sentiment about collecting is really to blame.

[Dpeck100]

As a kid who started collecting in the late 80's, it was generally unheard of to find even 1950's and 60's Topps cards in super great shape. There were multiple card shops in virtually every town back then, but the ones that carried vintage usually had lower grade stuff at best. I remember being excited not because of the card's condition, but because "Hey, that's Hank Aaron."

In more ways than one today maybe the loss of that sentiment about collecting is really to blame.


I started collecting in 85 as a six year old kid and wasn't paying any attention to the older cards. Some years later I would see cards in the cases at shops and none were nice.

I do think there are some cards out there that clearly survived in great condition but how many is clearly up for debate.

[jchcollins]

I started collecting in 85 as a six year old kid and wasn't paying any attention to the older cards. Some years later I would see cards in the cases at shops and none were nice.

I do think there are some cards out there that clearly survived in great condition but how many is clearly up for debate.

I started in '86 at age 9. Collected just Topps wax for a year or so before biting hard into vintage (back then just called "old") cards. EX range was super nice for a '50s or '60s card, tobacco cards were virtually never seen unless you were at a huge show, and then they were not in great shape. It does seem odd to me even before the PWCC mess that seemingly so many prewar cards in ridiculously high grade seemed to come out of the woodwork, but at the time I thought well, we have the internet now. The market is able to allocate more efficiently. But where were all those cards back at shows circa 1990? I'm admittedly small town, never went to the National or anything. But the whole thing still seems kind of odd.

[samosa4u]

A comment was made in a thread I read last night about the range of alterations and what is okay and what isn't okay. I for one as I have said was surprised when I learned that soaking and spooning were all deemed acceptable so it is clear there is a wide range of opinions on what constitutes alteration.



Huh? Spooning deemed acceptable? Where did you read that? I don't think anyone on this forum deems spooning of cards an acceptable practice.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Huh? Spooning deemed acceptable? Where did you read that? I don't think anyone on this forum deems spooning of cards an acceptable practice.

It's ok with a significant other though.:eek:

[Republicaninmass]

It's ok with a significant other though.:eek:But I like forking a whole lot better

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[Dpeck100]

Huh? Spooning deemed acceptable? Where did you read that? I don't think anyone on this forum deems spooning of cards an acceptable practice.

I read just yesterday someone say they have read plenty of times that spooning out a wrinkle is okay.

Using chemicals on cards as long as they don't smell after has been stated as okay.

I would have never dreamed that the same crowd that is upset would be okay with that.

[bnorth]

I read just yesterday someone say they have read plenty of times that spooning out a wrinkle is okay.

Using chemicals on cards as long as they don't smell after has been stated as okay.

I would have never dreamed that the same crowd that is upset would be okay with that.

The majority of people saying it is OK are the ones doing it.

[Rich Klein]

One Note on 1952 Topps Mantles. Remember Al Rosen found that cache of unopened 1952 Hi #s circa 1986. Those cards almost all came out clean and sharp and I could tell whenever I saw a find card at shows for the next few years. This card could be (and may well be) an absolutely legit 8.

Regards
Rich

[samosa4u]

I read just yesterday someone say they have read plenty of times that spooning out a wrinkle is okay.

Using chemicals on cards as long as they don't smell after has been stated as okay.

I would have never dreamed that the same crowd that is upset would be okay with that.

Yes, I know which comment you are referring to and I think he was just talking out of his a** when he made that statement about everyone being OK with spooning cards.

"Hi, I'm Bob, and I think it's totally OK with spooning cards! I just spooned my 51' Bowman Mantle last night! Wanna' see it? Hehe!"

Have you ever read anything like that on here, David? I haven't and I've been on here for quite a while.

And I also don't believe that people on this forum would be OK with soaking cards in chemicals. Some of these chemicals can turn your card brittle and then you know what happens next, right?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Yes, I know which comment you are referring to and I think he was just talking out of his a** when he made that statement about everyone being OK with spooning cards.

"Hi, I'm Bob, and I think it's totally OK with spooning cards! I just spooned my 51' Bowman Mantle last night! Wanna' see it? Hehe!"

Have you ever read anything like that on here, David? I haven't and I've been on here for quite a while.

And I also don't believe that people on this forum would be OK with soaking cards in chemicals. Some of these chemicals can turn your card brittle and then you know what happens next, right?

Cleaning with chemicals is generally regarded I would think as a lesser offense than trimming and recoloring, with crease removal somewhere in between, but it's all bad in my opinion.

[MULLINS5]

CONSERVING is defined as: a careful preservation and protection of something

PRESERVATION is defined as: to keep safe from injury, harm, or destruction : protect.

RESTORING is defined as: to return (something) to an earlier or original condition by repairing it, cleaning it, etc.

FRAUD is basically defined as: intentional perversion of truth in order to induce another to part with something of value

When you send your cards in to PSA/SGC/BGS you are CONSERVING your valuables by having them encased. Shellacking a baseball was intended to CONSERVE.

Brent and possibly Moser bought cards, cracked them out of their slabs, RESTORED them and then committed FRAUD by not disclosing the work they did.

[swarmee]

One Note on 1952 Topps Mantles. Remember Al Rosen found that cache of unopened 1952 Hi #s circa 1986. Those cards almost all came out clean and sharp and I could tell whenever I saw a find card at shows for the next few years. This card could be (and may well be) an absolutely legit 8.
Nobody has said that this card has any issues. Only that it's bizarre they would use PWCC to sell it at this moment.

[bobbyw8469]

Nobody has said that this card has any issues. Only that it's bizarre they would use PWCC to sell it at this moment.

1000% AGREED!!! A Heritage purchase to an Ebay flip in under 5 months. And to sell it on Ebay thru a seller who is currently embroiled in a scandal. Seems like awful timing to me.

[Dpeck100]

1000% AGREED!!! A Heritage purchase to an Ebay flip in under 5 months. And to sell it on Ebay thru a seller who is currently embroiled in a scandal. Seems like awful timing to me.

Bobby you probably have VCP. If you do how many PSA 8 Mantle's have been sold in a public forum in the past 12 months?

[Dpeck100]

Yes, I know which comment you are referring to and I think he was just talking out of his a** when he made that statement about everyone being OK with spooning cards.

"Hi, I'm Bob, and I think it's totally OK with spooning cards! I just spooned my 51' Bowman Mantle last night! Wanna' see it? Hehe!"

Have you ever read anything like that on here, David? I haven't and I've been on here for quite a while.

And I also don't believe that people on this forum would be OK with soaking cards in chemicals. Some of these chemicals can turn your card brittle and then you know what happens next, right?


I am no expert on any of this and just read what people have to say. As I said it seems that some of these methods that I would think constitute alteration are accepted by some and once you go from virgin cards to an attempt to improve their appearance you have started the process and there doesn't appear to be a 100% consensus on the matter.

[wondo]

Could be a buying opportunity.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Is anyone else tired of the narrative that "if you don't think or act exactly as I do, you must inherently be less intelligent than I am?"


Yes

[Steve D]

Bobby you probably have VCP. If you do how many PSA 8 Mantle's have been sold in a public forum in the past 12 months?


According to PSA's auction prices tracker, three PSA 8's, and one PSA 8.5 have sold (all via Heritage Auctions) in the last 12 months.

Steve

[Steve D]

I don't know what this means, but now, when you go to PWCC's website, this PSA 8 1952 Topps Mantle no longer shows up.

Steve

[Dpeck100]

It is gone.

Perhaps this thread caused someone to change their mind.

[GasHouseGang]

According to VCP the latest PSA 8 Mantles since the beginning of 2017:

2/24/19 Heritage $456,000
11/16/18 Heritage $430,200
8/19/18 Heritage $420,000
5/6/18 REA $300,000
2/24/18 Heritage $360,000
11/17/17 Heritage $408,000
8/20/17 Heritage $384,000
5/6/17 Memory Lane $462,000
2/25/17 Heritage $660,000

[CMIZ5290]

The consignor might be aware of the current situation and not care. It could be a planned sale. It could be sold for a number of reasons.

This scandal is going to blow over just like every storm in the hobby has up to this point.

I am surprised so many people think this is going to be the demise of high grade trading cards.

The 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle is the ultimate symbol of Americana and the price might be higher or it might be lower but you are never going to see the demand for this card evaporate.

There are some who have been calling for PWCC to cancel all of their auctions and others who hope Brent ends up in jail. This might be the ultimate FU saying we still get the goods.

One revelation from this recent situation we have confirmed is that you can use a hidden reserve on PWCC auctions so the odds of this going cheap are quite low I believe.

This card will bring a ton of money, just watch....

[1952boyntoncollector]

It is gone.

Perhaps this thread caused someone to change their mind.

right all of the people piping in were going to only bid 350k on it...

[pokerplyr80]

Is anyone else tired of the narrative that "if you don't think or act exactly as I do, you must inherently be less intelligent than I am?"

I thought that replaced buy the card not the holder as the new net54 motto. The posts criticizing fellow collectors for how they choose to spend their money are getting old as well.

[pokerplyr80]

It is gone.

Perhaps this thread caused someone to change their mind.

If true that's a shame. I highly doubt those commenting in this thread were bidding any way. It's usually good for the market when big cards like that go to auction. I think it would have done well.

[MULLINS5]

I highly doubt those commenting in this thread were bidding any way.

Maybe if someone else was selling it.

[Fuddjcal]

If true that's a shame. I highly doubt those commenting in this thread were bidding any way. It's usually good for the market when big cards like that go to auction. I think it would have done well.

Because most of us already have one here.

The more you see, the more you know that Brent Mastro is a common criminal. Nothing really special just a high tech crook.

He is a effing idiot of biblical proportions and if people want to continue to spend their $$$ with him, feel free. You earned it the old fashioned way by not ripping people off, so go ahead. This is America and we can do what we want.:) Happy 4th of July!

I personally will not buy another baseball card period probably until the day I die or Brent Mastro is behind bars. That's just the way I roll.

And to the guy who mentioned about Autographs...I stopped that nonsense 4 years ago when e-bay stopped pulling fakes and let 90% forgeries enter the market unchecked.

Though it's difficult to stop because I've loved it for 50 years, I try to stand for right and wrong. This Bullshit that Brent Mastro has been pulling is flat out wrong no matter how you slice it and I'm not going to be party to the ridiculousness of the hobby.

I won't sell them just like the autographs, they will sit. Only 150K wrapped up in them both, so it's not the end of the world and it was fun for a time. Now there is more money for fake benjamins, fake cars and maybe some more fake gold.

it is no longer fun when criminals dominate the hobby. You guys go right ahead and enjoy the ass poundings though. :p

[CW]

What the hell does Brent Mastro have to do with this current scandal, and why does his name continue to be brought up in these threads?

[Johnny630]

It’s gonna be very very difficult to prove ..........imo prob will not be criminally prosecuted
PSA Zero chance
PWCC Zero chance
Doctor Zero Zero Zero chance
They’ve got nothing...

Business as usual ....This hobby is the wild wild best always has been always will be...up to buyer to be smart :-)

We all know this and will be fine :-)

[Republicaninmass]

I Have to disagree. I see someone, ie doctor or pwcc getting nabbed for trimming, something related to this, fraud, money laundering, etc

[perezfan]

What the hell does Brent Mastro have to do with this current scandal, and why does his name continue to be brought up in these threads?

The original "Bad Actor" who was arrested was BILL Mastro (of Mastro Auctions...)

The term "BRENT Mastro" was coined by Chuck, as a nickname for Brent Huigens of PWCC. The inference being that they are both guilty of criminal wrongdoing within the hobby.

[Exhibitman]

Is anyone else tired of the narrative that "if you don't think or act exactly as I do, you must inherently be less intelligent than I am?"

Well, no, because the truth is never tiresome. Though I do often forget to be patient with people who are slower and dumber than I am, but I am working on it.

:D

[bnorth]

Because most of us already have one here.

The more you see, the more you know that Brent Mastro is a common criminal. Nothing really special just a high tech crook.

He is a effing idiot of biblical proportions and if people want to continue to spend their $$$ with him, feel free. You earned it the old fashioned way by not ripping people off, so go ahead. This is America and we can do what we want.:) Happy 4th of July!

I personally will not buy another baseball card period probably until the day I die or Brent Mastro is behind bars. That's just the way I roll.

And to the guy who mentioned about Autographs...I stopped that nonsense 4 years ago when e-bay stopped pulling fakes and let 90% forgeries enter the market unchecked.

Though it's difficult to stop because I've loved it for 50 years, I try to stand for right and wrong. This Bullshit that Brent Mastro has been pulling is flat out wrong no matter how you slice it and I'm not going to be party to the ridiculousness of the hobby.

I won't sell them just like the autographs, they will sit. Only 150K wrapped up in them both, so it's not the end of the world and it was fun for a time. Now there is more money for fake benjamins, fake cars and maybe some more fake gold.

it is no longer fun when criminals dominate the hobby. You guys go right ahead and enjoy the ass poundings though. :p

I can print you up some fake $300s if you want to sell your cards. Grovers are way better than Benjamins.:D

[CW]

The original "Bad Actor" who was arrested was BILL Mastro (of Mastro Auctions...)

The term "BRENT Mastro" was coined by Chuck, as a nickname for Brent Huigens of PWCC. The inference being that they are both guilty of criminal wrongdoing within the hobby.

Ah, I see, thanks for explaining.

Not confusing at all. ;) :rolleyes:

[pokerplyr80]

Even if most commenting here already have a 52 Mantle, which I find unlikely, I doubt more than 1 or 2 would consider bidding on this card regardless of the venue. I own one, but certainly can't afford an 8.

Cards of this caliber don't change hands that often, and even when they do I'd bet more often than not they do so privately. It would be a shame if a site that should be promoting the hobby is actually discouraging the public sale of such an important card.

[swarmee]

It should be sold by an honest seller, or at least one that hasn't been exposed yet. You make me laugh.

[samosa4u]

It should be sold by an honest seller, or at least one that hasn't been exposed yet. You make me laugh.

I agree. With all this sh*t that's going on, Brent should not be selling ANY cards right now.

[MULLINS5]

I was in the market for a 1952 Topps PSA 7 or 8 Mantle.

[Republicaninmass]

But he gets

So many high grade cards,
Highest prices for eye appeal
So many eyeballs
Secure packing



Who could possibly fill that void?

[MULLINS5]

But he gets

So many high grade cards,
Highest prices for eye appeal
So many eyeballs
Secure packing



Who could possibly fill that void?

1- because they're altered
2- because he stickers the altered and shills
3- because he pays for puff pieces
4- got nothing there, ha

[bnorth]

It should be sold by an honest seller, or at least one that hasn't been exposed yet. You make me laugh.

It's OK as long as you highly overpay from a very questionable seller.:rolleyes:

[Johnny630]

Here is the bottom line in my book;
His company will be fine.... he buys back the bad cards....PSA then buys them back from him and updates the Pop End of Story ...... Hush Hush Hush
People Forget and Many Don’t Know Or Could Care Less
They Beat Goes On
End Of Story

[swarmee]

Here is the bottom line in my book;
His company will be fine.... he buys back the bad cards....PSA then buys them back from him and updates the Pop End of Story ...... Hush Hush Hush
People Forget and Many Don’t Know Or Could Care Less
They Beat Goes On
End Of Story
As we say in the south, "Bless your heart!"

[Steve D]

Anyone remember WIWAG?

The current happenings will basically go the same way.

Steve

[Fuddjcal]

What the hell does Brent Mastro have to do with this current scandal, and why does his name continue to be brought up in these threads?

http://www.sportscardradio.com/

Scroll down a bit

[Fuddjcal]

I am no expert on any of this and just read what people have to say. As I said it seems that some of these methods that I would think constitute alteration are accepted by some and once you go from virgin cards to an attempt to improve their appearance you have started the process and there doesn't appear to be a 100% consensus on the matter.

is it that you are missing the point entirely or is it going over your head? I'm not sure.

It's not whether or not it's acceptable.... It's CRIMINAL without disclosing it PERIOD.

That's the point. Head, Point. I made a funny son.

[Fuddjcal]

I can print you up some fake $300s if you want to sell your cards. Grovers are way better than Benjamins.:D

That's Hilarious, Ben... Your good with that computer for sure!!!!!:)

[Dpeck100]

is it that you are missing the point entirely or is it going over your head? I'm not sure.

It's not whether or not it's acceptable.... It's CRIMINAL without disclosing it PERIOD.

That's the point. Head, Point. I made a funny son.


I see so all of the collectors on this forum who have soaked cards or cleaned them have disclosed that to buyers. I seriously doubt that.

[Buythatcard]

So, if PWCC buys back the bad cards, what happens to these cards? Are they destroyed? Are they relisted along with a disclosure that they have been doctored? Do they work with PSA to update the POP reports:? Are they sent back to Moser to clean them up a little more? :confused::confused:

[Johnny630]

So, if PWCC buys back the bad cards, what happens to these cards? Are they destroyed? Are they relisted along with a disclosure that they have been doctored? Do they work with PSA to update the POP reports:? Are they sent back to Moser to clean them up a little more? :confused::confused:

PSA has updated the Pop Report what they do with the cards is up to speculation

[swarmee]

So, if PWCC buys back the bad cards, what happens to these cards? Are they destroyed? Are they relisted along with a disclosure that they have been doctored? Do they work with PSA to update the POP reports:? Are they sent back to Moser to clean them up a little more? :confused::confused:
The 1952 Bowman Stan Musial PSA 10 was removed from the PSA pop report. It originally sold for over $25,000. They are supposedly being held "for law enforcement", but neither PWCC or PSA will say which agency/agencies they're supposedly working with.

[Buythatcard]

The 1952 Bowman Stan Musial PSA 10 was removed from the PSA pop report. It originally sold for over $25,000. They are supposedly being held "for law enforcement", but neither PWCC or PSA will say which agency/agencies they're supposedly working with.

So, if the person who works for law enforcement is a collector himself, he or she might end up with some highly graded cards.

[Buythatcard]

PSA has updated the Pop Report what they do with the cards is up to speculation

I didn't know that they actually updated the report. I wonder whether they will do that for each card that is returned or only the high profile ones.

VCP should be updating their records also by removing these cards from their databases.

[Dpeck100]

I didn't know that they actually updated the report. I wonder whether they will do that for each card that is returned or only the high profile ones.

VCP should be updating their records also by removing these cards from their databases.

https://www.psacard.com/pop/baseball-cards/1952/bowman/34030

The PSA 10 Musial is no longer in the pop.

There are two AUTH copies graded so no telling if one is the recent 10 that was removed.

[Johnny630]

I didn't know that they actually updated the report. I wonder whether they will do that for each card that is returned or only the high profile ones.

VCP should be updating their records also by removing these cards from their databases.

All of them that are deemed bad.....

[swarmee]

They also need to remove the Cert #s of the cards that were in the "before" pictures from the Pop Report as well.

[Fuddjcal]

I see so all of the collectors on this forum who have soaked cards or cleaned them have disclosed that to buyers. I seriously doubt that.

You know, I can't control what other assholes do. This asshole doesn't appreciate the fraud and what that dick Brent Mastro has been doing.

[Fballguy]

Does anyone ever stop to ask how a 70 year old card could be in such pristine condition? Did it go straight into a non-existent holder as soon as it came out of the pack? Where was this card stored for the first 30 years of its life that protected it so well?

[bnorth]

Does anyone ever stop to ask how a 70 year old card could be in such pristine condition? Did it go straight into a non-existent holder as soon as it came out of the pack? Where was this card stored for the first 30 years of its life that protected it so well?

As was pointed out by Rich there was a find of these in the mid 80s. Otherwise I agree with you on most super nice vintage cards.

I also had a nice stack of 66 Topps in NrMint condition. The original owner opened the packs and put them in a drawer. They sat untouched till I got them 20 years later. It does happen but it is rare.

[Steve D]

Does anyone ever stop to ask how a 70 year old card could be in such pristine condition? Did it go straight into a non-existent holder as soon as it came out of the pack? Where was this card stored for the first 30 years of its life that protected it so well?


Read this article on PSA's website:

https://www.psacard.com/articles/articleview/7813/pulp-non-fiction-famous-1952-topps-baseball-find

Steve

[ullmandds]

Read this article on PSA's website:

https://www.psacard.com/articles/articleview/7813/pulp-non-fiction-famous-1952-topps-baseball-find

Steve

No doubt...finds such as this...BSF, etc...provide cards to the market in possibly never been seen before condition. But this is not to say that the doctors were not hard at work even back then turning 5's-6's...or 8's-9's into 10's.

Probably even easier to do on cards such as this?

[Jdoggs]

52 mantle psa 8 will be in pwcc's next auction.

[jackwesq]

Hi everyone. Jdoggs is correct. The auction for the '52 Topps Mantle PSA 8 starts tomorrow at 7:00 p.m. I see the listing on PWCC's website.

[jackwesq]

Ended with a high bid of $489,300.00. More than the $456,000.00 earlier this year. But I would have guessed at least $500,000.00.

[samosa4u]

Winner has zero feedback.

[111gecko]

Buyer has “0” feedback... awesome.

[BeanTown]

Buyer has “0” feedback... awesome.

Im sure the seller was approved to bid.
Im sure eBay will be paid fees for the winning amount
Im sure the winning bidder will be paying the winning amount
Im sure this is the only holder this card has ever been in
Im sure the consignor doesnt know the winning bidder

[glchen]

Buyer has “0” feedback... awesome.


The old ebay "reserve" bid. :rolleyes:

[Rhotchkiss]

So I understand, a PWCC auction for a PSA 8, 1952 Mantle, ended recently for $489k, and the “winning bidder” had zero (0) feedback? If that is accurate, I think this is something that BODA and net54 should be posting about and the FBI should know about. When I first got back into eBay and had nominal feedback, I had to call pwcc and convince them to let me bid on multiple cards and above a small, minimal amount. Now, in the face of all this scandal, a zero feedback bidder is permitted to bid on, and win, a near $500k card?

[Johnny630]

Will this be relisted from the Vault in a new upcoming auction ?

[Just.Rachel]

It's not shilling. It's "conserving".

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[CuriousGeorge]

Do you really think with all eyes on them and this particular item that they would be possibly be putting themselves in any questionable position? If you read through the description of the item every bidder was vetted before being allowed to participate in the last day of bidding. Whether you particularly care for Brent or not, he’s not doing something that stupid.

So I understand, a PWCC auction for a PSA 8, 1952 Mantle, ended recently for $489k, and the “winning bidder” had zero (0) feedback? If that is accurate, I think this is something that BODA and net54 should be posting about and the FBI should know about. When I first got back into eBay and had nominal feedback, I had to call pwcc and convince them to let me bid on multiple cards and above a small, minimal amount. Now, in the face of all this scandal, a zero feedback bidder is permitted to bid on, and win, a near $500k card?

[irv]

Do you really think with all eyes on them and this particular item that they would be possibly be putting themselves in any questionable position? If you read through the description of the item every bidder was vetted before being allowed to participate in the last day of bidding. Whether you particularly care for Brent or not, he’s not doing something that stupid.

What we've seen/heard so far from, Brent, I think that is open for debate.

[Rhotchkiss]

I don’t think they are stupid (in fact Brent seems very smart), but it’s more cockey or cavalier (or maybe they are stupid, or greedy). Maybe their strategy is don’t stop what we were doing because changing indicates some culpability. Regardless, the optics are terrible- why, under the current circumstances, would PWCC allow a zero feedback bidder to win a $500k card? Vetted or not, it looks real bad and, if vetted, shows that they will continue to treat certain people special. $500k card and zero feedback is as logical as a fish riding a bicycle.

[CuriousGeorge]

I tried to buy it. The transaction was legit. Probably just a rich guy who doesn’t use eBay but sure knew how to snipe it in the last few seconds.

I don’t think they are stupid (in fact Brent seems very smart), but it’s more cockey or cavalier (or maybe they are stupid, or greedy). Maybe their strategy is don’t stop what we were doing because changing indicates some culpability. Regardless, the optics are terrible- why, under the current circumstances, would PWCC allow a zero feedback bidder to win a $500k card? Vetted or not, it looks real bad and, if vetted, shows that they will continue to treat certain people special. $500k card and zero feedback is as logical as a fish riding a bicycle.

[Republicaninmass]

I tried to buy it. The transaction was legit. Probably just a rich guy who doesn’t use eBay but sure knew how to snipe it in the last few seconds.


Quoted for posterity

[Peter_Spaeth]

For Ryan. Would make a good avatar.

[Rhotchkiss]

I tried to buy it. The transaction was legit. Probably just a rich guy who doesn’t use eBay but sure knew how to snipe it in the last few seconds.

I know what that's like.....:D

But just because you got outbid does not mean it was legit; it just means you were outbid, by who we dont know, unless you know something more (and I am guessing you may). Either way, I think it is "nuts" (because I dont if they are stupid, greedy, insane, cockey, cavalier, following a game plan, etc), to publicly log a $500k purchase of a very high impact and visual card/sale to a bidder with Zero feedback, especially under the current climate.

Thanks for the Pic Peter. Its actually a lyric from a U2 song" "A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle".

[Peter_Spaeth]

Ryan, I'm looking for a better image, but I still haven't found what I'm looking for.

[bnorth]

Im sure the seller was approved to bid.
Im sure eBay will be paid fees for the winning amount
Im sure the winning bidder will be paying the winning amount
Im sure this is the only holder this card has ever been in
Im sure the consignor doesnt know the winning bidder

I am 100% sure the one I made bold is true.
It has been shown that PWCC has screwed eBay on fees. I believe it was even shown on a item won by the gentleman I quoted.
Have no idea on the others but if history has taught us anything there is a good chance something shady happened.:)

[CuriousGeorge]

If the guy was vetted and showed the assets able to pay for it, should he be excluded because he has zero feedback which makes the optics bad? I would think a lot of non traditional ebay buyers and PWCC customers would have come out of the woodwork to purchase this card.

I know what that's like.....:D

But just because you got outbid does not mean it was legit; it just means you were outbid, by who we dont know, unless you know something more (and I am guessing you may). Either way, I think it is "nuts" (because I dont if they are stupid, greedy, insane, cockey, cavalier, following a game plan, etc), to publicly log a $500k purchase of a very high impact and visual card/sale to a bidder with Zero feedback, especially under the current climate.

Thanks for the Pic Peter. Its actually a lyric from a U2 song" "A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle".

[111gecko]

I guess one theory is with so many eyes on this auction; the real buyer may not have wanted anyone to know who they are so they created a new account and was approved by Brent. Bad optics true; but if they wanted the card; that's the way to do it.

[benjulmag]

There's dumb, dumber, dumbest and then there's something beyond even that. With law enforcement presumably watching PWCC's every move, coupled with them being advised by astute defense counsel, for PWCC to even contemplate doing anything not entirely kosher with this sale would fall into the "beyond even that" category.

[Rhotchkiss]

If the guy was vetted and showed the assets able to pay for it, should he be excluded because he has zero feedback which makes the optics bad? I would think a lot of non traditional ebay buyers and PWCC customers would have come out of the woodwork to purchase this card.

Steven, I hear you, and in most normal cases I totally agree with you. However, this is a unique time for PWCC and I would just think prudence dictates that the optics of all transactions, especially the high profile ones, look normal/proper.

Peter - very nice! But I am going to keep posting Without or Without a better avatar.

[CurtisFlood]

Unimprovable condition!

I see what you did there!:)

[Peter_Spaeth]

There's dumb, dumber, dumbest and then there's something beyond even that. With law enforcement presumably watching PWCC's every move, coupled with them being advised by astute defense counsel, for PWCC to even contemplate doing anything not entirely kosher with this sale would fall into the "beyond even that" category.

Like trying to sell an altered T3 Cobb in a PSA 2 slab with a bullshit addendum buried at the bottom, and claiming the numerical grade was appropriate? And trying to convince Jesse it was ok, and only taking it down when he insisted?

That said, on a sale of this magnitude, I would hope he walked the line.

[Johnny630]

What are the odds on this; Back in the vault will be relisted down the road

[BeanTown]

What are the odds on this; Back in the vault will be relisted down the road

Wonder if the winning bidder is a member or a new member of the famed "buying group".

[Lorewalker]

Impressive appreciation in the asset. Maybe back in Feb had Heritage been involved in a massive hobby scandal the card would have sold for more.

[Fuddjcal]

Removing PWCC sales from VCP would be a horrible idea. There are thousands and thousands of legit sales that must be taken into consideration that would be removed. This would give an even more false sense of card values.

I am not sure where you guys come up with these theories. There is a lot of speculation out there that to me is dangerous and inflammatory.

the only thing inflammatory is the hemorrhoids from your mouth. Thousands and thousand of trimmed cards that He personally scammed people. And a ZER0 feedback bidder bids 1/2 million on a card. Yeah right

[Griffins]

Ryan, I'm looking for a better image, but I still haven't found what I'm looking for.

Dammit, trashed another keyboard laughing and drinking at the same time. Well played Peter.

[Dpeck100]

the only thing inflammatory is the hemorrhoids from your mouth. Thousands and thousand of trimmed cards that He personally scammed people. And a ZER0 feedback bidder bids 1/2 million on a card. Yeah right


You are a real piece of work.

[Fuddjcal]

You are a real piece of work.

thanks:D

[Exhibitman]

There's dumb, dumber, dumbest and then there's something beyond even that. With law enforcement presumably watching PWCC's every move, coupled with them being advised by astute defense counsel, for PWCC to even contemplate doing anything not entirely kosher with this sale would fall into the "beyond even that" category.

Paging Mark Allen...

[drcy]

It's best to accuse PWCC when there are facts (and there a many cases where there are facts).

It is plausible that someone who doesn't ordinarily use eBay, or wants to make sure he purchases a half a million-dollar item anonymously, signed up just to buy this card.

[Santo10Fan]

It's best to accuse PWCC when there are facts (and there a many cases where there are facts).

It is plausible that someone who doesn't ordinarily use eBay, or wants to make sure he purchases a half a million-dollar item anonymously, signed up just to buy this card.
I deal with the former frequently when I sell current concert posters/prints. Normally they are non-ebay conertgoers scrambling to get a print they just missed since designs change in each city.

Considering PWCC circumstances and the final price, the Mantle buyer hit a good price point. The consigner's ROI was likely not as good as would be expected from PWCC pre-scandal imo, although it was a short turnaround (flip). The buyer has a 14-day NQA return window to examine the card personally and potentially have one or more third parties weigh in. He/she has the backing of ebay, paypal, and PSA. The buyer could choose to challenge PSA directly on its guarantee.

Under those circumstances, I don't find the purchase to be much of a risk, on the contrary it seems a perfect time for an astute buyer to get a nice Mantle.

[perezfan]

I deal with the former frequently when I sell current concert posters/prints. Normally they are non-ebay conertgoers scrambling to get a print they just missed since designs change in each city.

Considering PWCC circumstances and the final price, the Mantle buyer hit a good price point. The consigner's ROI was likely not as good as would be expected from PWCC pre-scandal imo, although it was a short turnaround (flip). The buyer has a 14-day NQA return window to examine the card personally and potentially have one or more third parties weigh in. He/she has the backing of ebay, paypal, and PSA. The buyer could choose to challenge PSA directly on its guarantee.

Under those circumstances, I don't find the purchase to be much of a risk, on the contrary it seems a perfect time for an astute buyer to get a nice Mantle.

I could be mistaken, but didn't PSA claim to have $700K in reserves for their potential "Guarantee" payout?

If that figure is correct, this one card would wipe out 71.4% of their total reserves. Not that they'd ever actually pay out, but that would be a hoot, if it happened. :D

[Santo10Fan]

I could be mistaken, but didn't PSA claim to have $700K in reserves for their potential "Guarantee" payout?

If that figure is correct, this one card would wipe out 71.4% of their total reserves. Not that they'd ever actually pay out, but that would be a hoot, if it happened. :D
If PSA reexamines it and determines "the card can no longer receive a numerical grade under PSA's standards" it guarantees to "buy the card from the submitter at the current market value." I think determining that value is going to involve a judge.

[Fuddjcal]

I could be mistaken, but didn't PSA claim to have $700K in reserves for their potential "Guarantee" payout?

If that figure is correct, this one card would wipe out 71.4% of their total reserves. Not that they'd ever actually pay out, but that would be a hoot, if it happened. :D

especially since the card has been soaked in bleach or peroxide and had the corners trimmed, IMHO...and won by a bidder with ZERO feedback.:D:D:D

You can't make this stuff up...

[CuriousGeorge]

Did you happen to notice that the underbidder, who bid $100 less, has feedback of 1315? So do you think that means for the extra $100 Brent decided to pull a maneuver or that perhaps a guy with zero feedback just happened to win the auction?

I mean I know everyone wants to crucify the guy but 10 seconds of checking eBay and a little common sense can show you this isn’t the one to pick on.

You can’t make this stuff up.

especially since the card has been soaked in bleach or peroxide and had the corners trimmed, IMHO...and won by a bidder with ZERO feedback.:D:D:D

You can't make this stuff up...

[Johnny630]

I'm waiting to see if this same card will be relisted within the next few months by same seller.

[perezfan]

Did you happen to notice that the underbidder, who bid $100 less, has feedback of 1315? So do you think that means for the extra $100 Brent decided to pull a maneuver or that perhaps a guy with zero feedback just happened to win the auction?

I mean I know everyone wants to crucify the guy but 10 seconds of checking eBay and a little common sense can show you this isn’t the one to pick on.

You can’t make this stuff up.

The skeptics are saying it was a fake bid... attempting to drive the price up further. So the actual price realized would not be an extra $100... it would be a "no sale".
PWCC has already admitted to, and attempted to justify shill bidding.

That said... I think it's very possible that a legitimate "zero feedback" person was made aware of the auction, and was authorized to bid. It's not like a card of this magnitude is widely available, and a distinct possibility that a non-ebayer would want it. So while it does raise suspicion, I agree it's best we stick with discussing concrete evidence and facts, and what we KNOW to be true (which is a lot... and keeps mounting with no perceptible end in sight).

[ullmandds]

The skeptics are saying it was a fake bid... attempting to drive the price up further. So the actual price realized would not be an extra $100... it would be a "no sale".
PWCC has already admitted to, and attempted to justify shill bidding.

That said... I think it's very possible that a legitimate "zero feedback" person was made aware of the auction, and was authorized to bid. It's not like a card of this magnitude is widely available, and a distinct possibility that a non-ebayer would want it. So while it does raise suspicion, I agree it's best we stick with discussing concrete evidence and facts, and what we KNOW to be true (which is a lot... and keeps mounting with no perceptible end in sight).

or maybe this is a ploy to show the fbi or others that zero feedback "buyers" are common ebay as a way to justify past shilling/no sale auctions?

My guess is this sale will not take place.

[CuriousGeorge]

I hope you’re right because I would love to have it. But I don’t believe you are.

or maybe this is a ploy to show the fbi or others that zero feedback "buyers" are common ebay as a way to justify past shilling/no sale auctions?

My guess is this sale will not take place.

[ullmandds]

I hope you’re right because I would love to have it. But I don’t believe you are.

if you're that eager to throw half a mill at a most likely altered 52 topps mantle...I'm sure there'll be another coming down the pike real soon!

[darwinbulldog]

Indeed. You can pick up a PSA Auth one that looks about the same for, what, 95% less?

[CuriousGeorge]

Probably not that looks like that one.

if you're that eager to throw half a mill at a most likely altered 52 topps mantle...I'm sure there'll be another coming down the pike real soon!

[ullmandds]

Probably not that looks like that one.

It IS a nice one...perhaps your bro can tell you if that one is available?

[CuriousGeorge]

It’s not right now. It was sold on eBay. Maybe down the road.

It IS a nice one...perhaps your bro can tell you if that one is available?

[Johnny630]

It’s in the vault to be listed within the next few months.

Buyer is a high end investment vehicle guy who enjoys the flexibility and liquidity of our assets.

Lmao

[steve B]

I tried to buy it. The transaction was legit. Probably just a rich guy who doesn’t use eBay but sure knew how to snipe it in the last few seconds.

Or had staff that knew how to snipe.

[bmcnutt]

I've got 5 on it that it's been trimmed.....

[Dpeck100]

I was just deleting things off my watch list and the buyer shows a feedback of 1 and no bids in the past 30 days. Very high likelihood this was paid for.


https://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBidderProfile&mode=1&item=143345635317&bidtid=1682737482004&_trksid=p2471758.m4792

Bidder Information
Bidder: 4***w ( 1 )
Feedback: 100% Positive
Item description: 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle #311 PSA 8 NM-MT (PWCC-A) - Certified Top 30%
Bids on this item: 11

30-Day Summary
Total bids: 0
Items bid on: 0
Bid activity (%) with this seller: 0% Help
Bid retractions: 0
Bid retractions (6 months): 0