1887-1890 Old Judge Question

[seff]

I'm new to Net54. I collect mostly HOF PRE-War. But had to pick up a few 1887 Old Judge cards. I can not find anywhere which card designs were issued each year.

Does anyone know which card designs were issued each year?

I know the 1886 Browns Champions were 1887.

I have photo's of my cards if anyone can help. Thanks to all who can help.

[oldjudge]

Dating cards:

1. 1889 (and rarely 1890)--Has words "Cigarette Factory" at bottom of card
2. 1888--Three line ad at bottom of card "Old Judge/Cigarettes/ Goodwin & Co., New York"--Two different type sizes used
3. 1887--Has Old Judge Cigarettes banner at top in either a dark arc or a box in the UR or UL.

This is a brief and somewhat incomplete description, but it will get you there. Your cards are, reading down: 89, 89, 87, 88, 89, 89, 87.

[Jobu]

I highly recommend Mr. Miller's book "The Photographic Baseball Cards of Goodwin & Company". That will answer many of the questions you have as well as many that you don't. :)

[seff]

Thanks. to both of you.

I will be looking up the book.

[seff]

Oldjudge, what would I be looking for for the 1890 issue?

[oldjudge]

In most cases, either an "NL" after the player's team, or a "PL" either after the team, or sometimes in the actual image (usually LR). There are a few cases where a Players' League card has no "PL" and it is only recognizable because the player only played with this team in 1890. An example would be Comiskey-Chicago.

[seff]

Damn, you are awesome. Thanks again.

[oldjudge]

Enjoy the cards and, if you decide to learn more, enjoy the book.

[seff]

Ordering the book this weekend.

[darwinbulldog]

Good choice. Tremendous book.

[Rich Falvo]

Just got my copy of the book last week and am loving it so far. Knew very little about these cards and figured this was the place to start.

[sb1]

There will be a limited number of the Old Judge books available at the National at table 713.

[rgpete]

Try this book

[oldjudge]

Ron-That is a good introductory book, the one I used when I got started around 1990. However, keep in mind that the book has quite a few errors, several on player identification, which were later corrected. Besides our book the one other reference I would recommend is the British Cartophilic Society Listing. That book lists the sub varieties for each of the individual poses, a level which we chose not to go down to.

[rgpete]

Ron-That is a good introductory book, the one I used when I got started around 1990. However, keep in mind that the book has quite a few errors, several on player identification, which were later corrected. Besides our book the one other reference I would recommend is the British Cartophilic Society Listing. That book lists the sub varieties for each of the individual poses, a level which we chose not to go down to.

Thank You for that information I was not aware

[rgpete]

Question would this Old Judge be considered a script series dont mean to hijack the thread

[seff]

I would say it is the 1887 Banner series. It even has the 1887 copyright.

[rgpete]

Thank You

[oldjudge]

No, that is part of the 1887 “0” number (number starting with a zero) series. There are two variations, one with “Old Judge Cigarettes” in a curved banner at the top of the card and the “0” number in the upper corner, and one with an ad box at the UR or UL and the “0” number in the ID panel at the bottom of the card. The script series cards have the player’s name in script in the photo area. A spotted tie card is an example of a script series card. All this info is in Lew’s book as well as ours.

[rgpete]

Thanks for the clarification of the difference

[seff]

Good god, their are a lot of variations in the set!!!

[oldjudge]

If you want to be accurate, the Old Judge “set” is no more a set than the 1952-Present Topps cards are a set. Goodwin & Company put out baseball cards under the Old Judge banner from 1886 to 1890. Each year one or more sets were put out, many not just baseball cards but including boxers, actors, other athletes, etc. So, there are a lot of variations because there are really a lot of sets.

[Leon]

Thanks for sharing info, Jay. Your and Lew's books are essential to hobbyists in our niche. See ya' soon! (assuming you will be at the National)

No, that is part of the 1887 “0” number (number starting with a zero) series. There are two variations, one with “Old Judge Cigarettes” in a curved banner at the top of the card and the “0” number in the upper corner, and one with an ad box at the UR or UL and the “0” number in the ID panel at the bottom of the card. The script series cards have the player’s name in script in the photo area. A spotted tie card is an example of a script series card. All this info is in Lew’s book as well as ours.