I guess this is goodbye

[T206Collector]

From Leon:

I am not letting your poll go right now because I just don't think I want it there at the moment. There is a mob mentality already and that further provokes it. You are more than welcome to leave the forum if you don't like the way it is run.
thanks

Ok.

[Leon]

So I PM you that there is a mob mentality going on and you start
a thread to do the same thing again. I am not even saying the mob is wrong but it is the ganging up that I don't care for. Everything will take its course. However, It feels like the tail is wagging the dog again and that just doesn't work for me any longer.
Good bye

From Leon:

I am not letting your poll go right now because I just don't think I want it there at the moment. There is a mob mentality already and that further provokes it. You are more than welcome to leave the forum if you don't like the way it is run.
thanks

Ok.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I hope Paul doesn't leave. I assume he was not banned.

[Leon]

I hope Paul doesn't leave. I assume he was not banned.

Nope, not banned.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Can always just agree he can put the poll up again in 30 days or an agreed time period.

That way the mob mentality excuse doesnt appear to be a fake excuse as it does appear you are fine with the poll, just not being put up right now

You are looking for a 'cooling off' period as it were but not refusing him putting up the poll forever...

[Leon]

This is correct. And I very much believe a poll won't be needed by the end of this month or sooner.

Can always just agree he can put the poll up again in 30 days or an agreed time period.

That way the mob mentality excuse doesnt appear to be a fake excuse as it does appear you are fine with the poll, just not being put up right now

You are looking for a 'cooling off' period as it were but not refusing him putting up the poll forever...

[Peter_Spaeth]

I am sure that even without a poll Leon understands how many of us feel on this topic. A number of us have posted. I do hope he will change his mind at some point and follow where PSA and even the allegedly conspiratorial VCP have gone by disassociating themselves.

[1952boyntoncollector]

This is correct. And I very much believe a poll won't be needed by the end of this month or sooner.

However, in a month if T206 man wants to have his poll, you are fine with it.

Call me Boynton problem solver..

[Leon]

Yeap.
However, in a month if T206 man wants to have his poll, you are fine with it.

Call me Boynton problem solver..

[Snapolit1]

I don't know what the poll was, but I trust Leon's judgment that it wasn't adding a whole lot what has already been fleshed out here in great (and much necessary) detail. Great work by many.

I could imagine polls popping up like "Who deserves to go to jail first" kind of a thing. Gimmicky and maybe worth a small chuckle but not really moving the ball forward.

[frankbmd]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ne2yFQPYYmU

For those of you that cannot stomach the video.....

Chalk on the sidewalk
Writin' on the wall
Everybody knows it
I love Paul
Tall Paul, Tall Paul
Tall Paul, he's-a my all

Chalk on the sidewalk
'nitials on a tree
Ev'rybody knows it
Paul loves me
(Tall Paul) With the king-size arms
(Tall Paul) With the king-size charms
(Tall Paul) With the king-size kiss
He's my all!!
Tall Paul is my love,
Tall Paul is my dream

[vintagetoppsguy]

I really don't see what the big deal is. Is a banner ad really going to change anybody's opinion about PWCC at this point? It's advertising dollars for this site that keep it running. I see banner ads from businesses that I've made it a point not to do business with, but I don't complain about it.

[drcy]

If this doesn't convince you to stay, then I don't know what will

Yazoo-- Don't Go (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3QKTMOSy0M)

[samosa4u]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FU6yzzESX8Y

[Rich Klein]

If she could continue singing with No Doubt after breaking up with the bass player, I guess we can all stay on this board.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TR3Vdo5etCQ

[Michael B]

If this doesn't convince you to stay, that I don't know what will

Yazoo-- Don't Go (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3QKTMOSy0M)

David,

Every time I hear this song I think of the movie 'Tango & Cash'. Teri Hatcher as Sylvester Stallone's (Tango) sister beating on a drum to this song a la Sheila E.

[Goudey77]

From Leon:

I am not letting your poll go right now because I just don't think I want it there at the moment. There is a mob mentality already and that further provokes it. You are more than welcome to leave the forum if you don't like the way it is run.
thanks

Ok.

Paul,

It would be a shame to have veterans like yourself leave the board.
While I encourage everyone to have a voice keep in mind that Leon has indeed given us a forum that is both tolerant and generous.

Besides I don't see you fitting in with the blowout crowd. :D
Hope you reconsider and we can all get along sooner than later.

[drcy]

Leon runs a good board. That doesn't mean one will agree with every of his, or anyone's decisions.

The ad does't particularly bother me, and I assume that ads are bought in advance for a duration (monthly?).

[Forever Young]

#drama

Leon runs a good board. That doesn't mean one will agree with every of his, or anyone's decisions.

The ad does't particularly bother me, and I assume that ads are bought in advance for a duration (monthly?).

I agree with The good Doctor.

#inLeonwetrust

#IstandwithLeon

[Republicaninmass]

It Doesnt matter what the poll regarding PWCCs banner ad comes back as, it's up to the forum owner plain and simple.

[BengoughingForAwhile]

I am sure that even without a poll Leon understands how many of us feel on this topic. A number of us have posted. I do hope he will change his mind at some point and follow where PSA and even the allegedly conspiratorial VCP have gone by disassociating themselves.

PWCC ad back on VCP.

[barrysloate]

I also want to wish Paul well and hope he takes a short break and then returns. His posts were always literate and well thought out.

I took a break for a couple of years, and when I returned I was welcomed back with a collective yawn. But the point is it's okay to return.:)

[Peter_Spaeth]

PWCC ad back on VCP.

No cojones in this industry. A check can buy you anyone.

[brianp-beme]

I also want to wish Paul well and hope he takes a short break and then returns. His posts were always literate and well thought out.

I took a break for a couple of years, and when I returned I was welcomed back with a collective yawn. But the point is it's okay to return.:)

You will always be welcome here. I think probably one person yawned, then the rest followed suit, because we all know that yawning is contagious.

Brian

[barrysloate]

You will always be welcome here. I think probably one person yawned, then the rest followed suit, because we all know that yawning is contagious.

Brian

Thanks Brian. Actually I received a lot of nice responses on my return, but I tend to be self-deprecating.

[Mark17]

No cojones in this industry. A check can buy you anyone.

Without wanting to violate the policy of not talking about politics, this whole discussion about whether Leon should take down the PWCC ad banner (and now, the implication that he has no cojones and has been bought) is another instance of the same, tired thing we see every day.

Person A looks at what person B is doing. Person A does not approve and suggests (asks, demands, protests, boycotts, whatever) that person B change their behavior. If person B feels enough pressure, he may end up doing so, even though it costs him revenue and may not be what he truly believes is right. Person A then pats himself on the back, for having superior principles, and for pressuring person B into doing the "right thing."

I have enjoyed this forum for many years now, and I do not take it for granted. It is a much needed contribution to the hobby/business and that is a gross understatement. Plus, it is enjoyable relaxation. I don't do facebook or twitter, never have, never will, but I like it here at this site.

Yet, I have never paid one penny to support this site and I am certain the vast majority of people here haven't, either. So when people who use this site frequently, and don't support it financially, start saying people like Leon, who don't summarily ban PWCC from providing financial support, lack cojones and are "bought," I get annoyed.

If someone who wants to self-congratulate themself for having cojones and being above "being bought" wants to PM Leon and offer to pay him whatever PWCC is paying for that ad, in exchange for replacing that ad with something else, THAT would be a principled position. Pressuring someone else to give up a revenue stream, when that person is already providing such a valuable service to the rest of us, free, is selfish and disingenuous.

Being principled with someone else's money is not being principled.

[jimjim]

Without wanting to violate the policy of not talking about politics, this whole discussion about whether Leon should take down the PWCC ad banner (and now, the implication that he has no cojones and has been bought) is another instance of the same, tired thing we see every day.

Person A looks at what person B is doing. Person A does not approve and suggests (asks, demands, protests, boycotts, whatever) that person B change their behavior. If person B feels enough pressure, he may end up doing so, even though it costs him revenue and may not be what he truly believes is right. Person A then pats himself on the back, for having superior principles, and for pressuring person B into doing the "right thing."

I have enjoyed this forum for many years now, and I do not take it for granted. It is a much needed contribution to the hobby/business and that is a gross understatement. Plus, it is enjoyable relaxation. I don't do facebook or twitter, never have, never will, but I like it here at this site.

Yet, I have never paid one penny to support this site and I am certain the vast majority of people here haven't, either. So when people who use this site frequently, and don't support it financially, start saying people like Leon, who don't summarily ban PWCC from providing financial support, lack cojones and are "bought," I get annoyed.

If someone who wants to self-congratulate themself for having cojones and being above "being bought" wants to PM Leon and offer to pay him whatever PWCC is paying for that ad, in exchange for replacing that ad with something else, THAT would be a principled position. Pressuring someone else to give up a revenue stream, when that person is already providing such a valuable service to the rest of us, free, is selfish and disingenuous.

Being principled with someone else's money is not being principled.


Well said!!

[vintagetoppsguy]

Well said!!

Agreed

[SAllen2556]

Without wanting to violate the policy of not talking about politics, this whole discussion about whether Leon should take down the PWCC ad banner (and now, the implication that he has no cojones and has been bought) is another instance of the same, tired thing we see every day.

Person A looks at what person B is doing. Person A does not approve and suggests (asks, demands, protests, boycotts, whatever) that person B change their behavior. If person B feels enough pressure, he may end up doing so, even though it costs him revenue and may not be what he truly believes is right. Person A then pats himself on the back, for having superior principles, and for pressuring person B into doing the "right thing."

I have enjoyed this forum for many years now, and I do not take it for granted. It is a much needed contribution to the hobby/business and that is a gross understatement. Plus, it is enjoyable relaxation. I don't do facebook or twitter, never have, never will, but I like it here at this site.

Yet, I have never paid one penny to support this site and I am certain the vast majority of people here haven't, either. So when people who use this site frequently, and don't support it financially, start saying people like Leon, who don't summarily ban PWCC from providing financial support, lack cojones and are "bought," I get annoyed.

If someone who wants to self-congratulate themself for having cojones and being above "being bought" wants to PM Leon and offer to pay him whatever PWCC is paying for that ad, in exchange for replacing that ad with something else, THAT would be a principled position. Pressuring someone else to give up a revenue stream, when that person is already providing such a valuable service to the rest of us, free, is selfish and disingenuous.

Being principled with someone else's money is not being principled.


Been thinking this, but couldn't put it into words as well as you have. Very well said, and I agree with every word.

[Huysmans]

Without wanting to violate the policy of not talking about politics, this whole discussion about whether Leon should take down the PWCC ad banner (and now, the implication that he has no cojones and has been bought) is another instance of the same, tired thing we see every day.

Person A looks at what person B is doing. Person A does not approve and suggests (asks, demands, protests, boycotts, whatever) that person B change their behavior. If person B feels enough pressure, he may end up doing so, even though it costs him revenue and may not be what he truly believes is right. Person A then pats himself on the back, for having superior principles, and for pressuring person B into doing the "right thing."

I have enjoyed this forum for many years now, and I do not take it for granted. It is a much needed contribution to the hobby/business and that is a gross understatement. Plus, it is enjoyable relaxation. I don't do facebook or twitter, never have, never will, but I like it here at this site.

Yet, I have never paid one penny to support this site and I am certain the vast majority of people here haven't, either. So when people who use this site frequently, and don't support it financially, start saying people like Leon, who don't summarily ban PWCC from providing financial support, lack cojones and are "bought," I get annoyed.

If someone who wants to self-congratulate themself for having cojones and being above "being bought" wants to PM Leon and offer to pay him whatever PWCC is paying for that ad, in exchange for replacing that ad with something else, THAT would be a principled position. Pressuring someone else to give up a revenue stream, when that person is already providing such a valuable service to the rest of us, free, is selfish and disingenuous.

Being principled with someone else's money is not being principled.

You nailed it. I completely agree.

[Bpm0014]

Pressuring someone else to give up a revenue stream, when that person is already providing such a valuable service to the rest of us, free, is selfish and disingenuous.

So so so spot on! This great forum is free for us because of the sponsors, whether we agree with them or not. Very well said!

[steve B]

So where would you draw the line on sponsorships?

Would a non- hobby sponsorship from an organization you find distasteful be acceptable?
Or any non- hobby sponsorship?

[Peter_Spaeth]

So where would you draw the line on sponsorships?

Would a non- hobby sponsorship from an organization you find distasteful be acceptable?
Or any non- hobby sponsorship?

Net 54 baseball, brought to you by Coach's Corner, Battlefield, Mastro and Allen, and so on. It would be "disingenuous" to object, after all. No line drawing, Steve. Only enjoyment matters.

PS pointing out the absurdity of the argument being made, not at all suggesting Leon would ever go there, he wouldn't.

[ullmandds]

If Dick Towle were a paid advertiser on this forum...would this pose a problem to anyone?

[Peter_Spaeth]

If Dick Towle were a paid advertiser on this forum...would this pose a problem to anyone?

Are you kidding Pete? 90 percent here probably have no problem with what he does. Gary might be a better example. "Sell me your centered 5s and 6s." No problem here, it would be "disingenuous" to object.

[71buc]

I too both enjoy and appreciate this site greatly. I am grateful for its existence and believe Leon should run it as he pleases and maximize the revenue it generates. That being said, without a passionate and voluminous membership there would be no advertising revenue. The fact that there are no membership fees serves to make easy to forget that the posters are the stars of this show. Nonetheless, none of of us are chained to our keyboards and can leave at anytime. OK I'll admit I might be the only one chained to his keyboard. I love this site.

[ullmandds]

Well, pete...typically the majority rules? If the mass majority of collectors/investors don't have a problem with alterations of cards...ineptitudes of TPG'ers...corruption and degenerate ethical/moral standards of most everyone in the hobby...then this will likely dictate the path of the future of collecting. Leaving purists like you and I to either accept or leave.

[Leon]

I appreciate all of the comments both good and bad. I never want to see any member leave but my reasoning for doing things is my reasoning. I know many, if not most, think it is a monetary thing. It isn't. It is a principled thing and I have not come to the point of making the decision to take down the banners. However, it is now PWCC's wish to have them removed until this fiasco gets settled. I will certainly abide by their wishes.
They didn't want to cause more stress on them, this forum or the hobby. I will respect their wishes, as I do all advertisers. So in the next 1-2 days their banners will no longer be here, at least for the time being. Thanks again to all of our members for making this the best, most real (with our id policy), vintage baseball card (& other forums) on the internet.
.

[kateighty]

This thread makes me sad. We hope you come back soon Paul!

Also thanks Leon for the update.

Not to sound like a suck up but Leon really is in a unique position as the owner of this forum that has brought us together. Regardless of the drama, he's the ump every time something like this happens. It can't be easy. He's like the dad driving the minivan as we're all bickering in the back. Thanks Leon for doing what you do and here's to hoping Paul and Leon make up at the next rest stop!

[glynparson]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2D6xSDffm6c

[Peter_Spaeth]

lol

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2D6xSDffm6c

I was going to link to "I Guess This is Goodbye" from Into the Woods, but I'm a live theatre guy and I figured most wouldn't be familiar with it.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I was going to link to "I Guess This is Goodbye" from Into the Woods, but I'm a live theatre guy and I figured most wouldn't be familiar with it.

Sha na na na
na na na na
Hey hey
Goodbye

[sportscardtheory]

Without wanting to violate the policy of not talking about politics, this whole discussion about whether Leon should take down the PWCC ad banner (and now, the implication that he has no cojones and has been bought) is another instance of the same, tired thing we see every day.

Person A looks at what person B is doing. Person A does not approve and suggests (asks, demands, protests, boycotts, whatever) that person B change their behavior. If person B feels enough pressure, he may end up doing so, even though it costs him revenue and may not be what he truly believes is right. Person A then pats himself on the back, for having superior principles, and for pressuring person B into doing the "right thing."

I have enjoyed this forum for many years now, and I do not take it for granted. It is a much needed contribution to the hobby/business and that is a gross understatement. Plus, it is enjoyable relaxation. I don't do facebook or twitter, never have, never will, but I like it here at this site.

Yet, I have never paid one penny to support this site and I am certain the vast majority of people here haven't, either. So when people who use this site frequently, and don't support it financially, start saying people like Leon, who don't summarily ban PWCC from providing financial support, lack cojones and are "bought," I get annoyed.

If someone who wants to self-congratulate themself for having cojones and being above "being bought" wants to PM Leon and offer to pay him whatever PWCC is paying for that ad, in exchange for replacing that ad with something else, THAT would be a principled position. Pressuring someone else to give up a revenue stream, when that person is already providing such a valuable service to the rest of us, free, is selfish and disingenuous.

Being principled with someone else's money is not being principled.

I completely disagree. You are making it about money when it's an issue of morals and integrity. Leon, and anyone else, is certainly free to do whatever, but that doesn't excuse the behavior of the company they keep. If taking money from crooks is admirable or acceptable to you, then so be it. But you have no credibility when it comes to judging others based on principles, as you apparently have none.

[Mark17]

I completely disagree. You are making it about money when it's an issue of morals and integrity. Leon, and anyone else, is certainly free to do whatever, but that doesn't excuse the behavior of the company they keep. If taking money from crooks is admirable or acceptable to you, then so be it. But you have no credibility when it comes to judging others based on principles, as you apparently have none.

Please..... Did I say taking money from crooks is admirable or acceptable to me? What I said was, Leon owns his site, so he gets to make the call, period.

I primarily collect GU stuff. There used to be a great website called gameuseduniverse. I loved it over there. They had a bunch of really great members who were very helpful to me, like Mike Specht, Dave Meidema, and Bud Hillerich (who told me my GU Terry Felton bat was one of only 4 made for him.) I got to know Chris Cavalier and that's where I met Dave Grob and others. Really great group of people.

Well, Chris sold the site to Ken Goldin of Goldin Auctions, and right away the "Goldin Rule" was instituted. It said that criticism of items listed in Goldin Auctions was not permitted - and questions needed to be sent to Ken directly, and privately. As I watched that rule be enforced several times, I started to become uncomfortable with what I was seeing, and found net54 as an alternative site.

Some of you may remember the Babe Ruth catchers glove incident a few years ago. Goldin was auctioning a glove that was thought to have been used by Ruth as a teenager at his industrial school. Some members here pointed out differences between pictures of Ruth with his glove, and the glove being auctioned. Then, some of those who were raising questions were apparently contacted by an attorney, either issuing, or threatening, a cease and desist notice.

For me, that was it. Free speech was the norm over here, and over at gameuseduniverse, not so much. I stopped going over there.

On April 23 of this year, I received an email from Chris Cavalier, which begins: "I hope this email finds you doing well. Recently, there were a few people who tried to reach me through the Game Used Universe site. As the site's founder, I am sure it seemed logical to try to reach me through the GUU. Unfortunately, my account there has been banned by the site's new owner and I am no longer able to post there or respond to anyone trying to message me through the site."

Chris went on to provide his email address at Heritage, where he is now a Consignment Director. I wish him the best and consider him to be one of the many "good guys" who used to be at that site. Out of curiosity, I checked out GUU (had problems logging in as I'd forgotten my password.) It looks like a ghost town compared to what it used to be.

So........ When I see people jumping all over Leon because he didn't instantly ban one of his advertisers over this recently breaking scandal, and then when I see people who spend quite a lot of time enjoying this site (for free) imply Leon has no "cojones" and that he can be "bought," I think it is unfair to the extreme.

Running this website costs money, and maintaining civility among all of us must be rather challenging at times. I agree with a previous poster that Leon manages this site, and keeps us all in line, in a very calm and fair way. For example, the PWCC ad issue is now resolved, and as it turns out, Leon't patient approach, to let things play out, was better than some sort of knee-jerk reaction some here advocated.

What I don't want is for the aggravation Leon has to put up with to become so great that he starts looking for his own "Goldin Parachute." Imagine if he sold this site to another auction house, or even PSA (or for that matter, PWCC.) New rules might be instituted, the current moderators would quit as they wouldn't be able to stomach those new rules, and I would have to find another hobby website, rather than watch this site degenerate the way of GUU.

Bottom line is this: I am comfortable here. If at some point I become uncomfortable, I will simply leave. But I will not try to tell Leon how to run his site, and I certainly will not insult him. If you interpret that as me having no principles, so be it.

[Jim65]

Please..... Did I say taking money from crooks is admirable or acceptable to me? What I said was, Leon owns his site, so he gets to make the call, period.

I primarily collect GU stuff. There used to be a great website called gameuseduniverse. I loved it over there. They had a bunch of really great members who were very helpful to me, like Mike Specht, Dave Meidema, and Bud Hillerich (who told me my GU Terry Felton bat was one of only 4 made for him.) I got to know Chris Cavalier and that's where I met Dave Grob and others. Really great group of people.

Well, Chris sold the site to Ken Goldin of Goldin Auctions, and right away the "Goldin Rule" was instituted. It said that criticism of items listed in Goldin Auctions was not permitted - and questions needed to be sent to Ken directly, and privately. As I watched that rule be enforced several times, I started to become uncomfortable with what I was seeing, and found net54 as an alternative site.

Some of you may remember the Babe Ruth catchers glove incident a few years ago. Goldin was auctioning a glove that was thought to have been used by Ruth as a teenager at his industrial school. Some members here pointed out differences between pictures of Ruth with his glove, and the glove being auctioned. Then, some of those who were raising questions were apparently contacted by an attorney, either issuing, or threatening, a cease and desist notice.

For me, that was it. Free speech was the norm over here, and over at gameuseduniverse, not so much. I stopped going over there.

On April 23 of this year, I received an email from Chris Cavalier, which begins: "I hope this email finds you doing well. Recently, there were a few people who tried to reach me through the Game Used Universe site. As the site's founder, I am sure it seemed logical to try to reach me through the GUU. Unfortunately, my account there has been banned by the site's new owner and I am no longer able to post there or respond to anyone trying to message me through the site."

Chris went on to provide his email address at Heritage, where he is now a Consignment Director. I wish him the best and consider him to be one of the many "good guys" who used to be at that site. Out of curiosity, I checked out GUU (had problems logging in as I'd forgotten my password.) It looks like a ghost town compared to what it used to be.

So........ When I see people jumping all over Leon because he didn't instantly ban one of his advertisers over this recently breaking scandal, and then when I see people who spend quite a lot of time enjoying this site (for free) imply Leon has no "cojones" and that he can be "bought," I think it is unfair to the extreme.

Running this website costs money, and maintaining civility among all of us must be rather challenging at times. I agree with a previous poster that Leon manages this site, and keeps us all in line, in a very calm and fair way. For example, the PWCC ad issue is now resolved, and as it turns out, Leon't patient approach, to let things play out, was better than some sort of knee-jerk reaction some here advocated.

What I don't want is for the aggravation Leon has to put up with to become so great that he starts looking for his own "Goldin Parachute." Imagine if he sold this site to another auction house, or even PSA (or for that matter, PWCC.) New rules might be instituted, the current moderators would quit as they wouldn't be able to stomach those new rules, and I would have to find another hobby website, rather than watch this site degenerate the way of GUU.

Bottom line is this: I am comfortable here. If at some point I become uncomfortable, I will simply leave. But I will not try to tell Leon how to run his site, and I certainly will not insult him. If you interpret that as me having no principles, so be it.

GUU is a ghost town because of every reason you mention. Its a shame and Ken doesn't seem to care at all. That has pushed me to the Facebook groups which are much better anyway.

[bnorth]

From Leon:

I am not letting your poll go right now because I just don't think I want it there at the moment. There is a mob mentality already and that further provokes it. You are more than welcome to leave the forum if you don't like the way it is run.
thanks

Ok.

Paul, just take a break and then come back, I have done it a few times.

That note from Leon is like a love letter compared to posts he has made. Did you miss about 1 1/2 to 2 years ago when he went silly and openly called several members Idiots and Morons for calling out PWCC and Goldin for shady stuff at the same time. At that time he openly admitted the advertisers get special treatment. It is what it is, it's his forum and he can do what he wants.

Personally I have just learned to live with it, He has quoted one of my posts, inserted a picture of a door and told me I could leave anytime I wanted.:D So don't worry about your PM.

As far as the poll I could care less who advertises here. Just like everything else in life you have to take the bad with the good.:)

[Leon]

Paul, just take a break and then come back, I have done it a few times.

That note from Leon is like a love letter compared to posts he has made. Did you miss about 1 1/2 to 2 years ago when he went silly and openly called several members Idiots and Morons for calling out PWCC and Goldin for shady stuff at the same time. At that time he openly admitted the advertisers get special treatment. It is what it is, it's his forum and he can do what he wants.

Personally I have just learned to live with it, He has quoted one of my posts, inserted a picture of a door and told me I could leave anytime I wanted.:D So don't worry about your PM.

As far as the poll I could care less who advertises here. Just like everything else in life you have to take the bad with the good.:)

Just like I put up with our members, good and bad. It is what it is. If I booted everyone I didn't care for then this response (by me) would have never been needed. :cool:

BTW, our advertisers get special treatment? Apparently you either can't comprehend or can't read. Our advertisers get bashed all of the time. Just read the forum. It isn't difficult to see not many protections are given around here. (actually, none). The only special treatment they get is their ads on the front page, sometimes, and their banner ads on the board.

[sportscardtheory]

Please..... Did I say taking money from crooks is admirable or acceptable to me? What I said was, Leon owns his site, so he gets to make the call, period.

I primarily collect GU stuff. There used to be a great website called gameuseduniverse. I loved it over there. They had a bunch of really great members who were very helpful to me, like Mike Specht, Dave Meidema, and Bud Hillerich (who told me my GU Terry Felton bat was one of only 4 made for him.) I got to know Chris Cavalier and that's where I met Dave Grob and others. Really great group of people.

Well, Chris sold the site to Ken Goldin of Goldin Auctions, and right away the "Goldin Rule" was instituted. It said that criticism of items listed in Goldin Auctions was not permitted - and questions needed to be sent to Ken directly, and privately. As I watched that rule be enforced several times, I started to become uncomfortable with what I was seeing, and found net54 as an alternative site.

Some of you may remember the Babe Ruth catchers glove incident a few years ago. Goldin was auctioning a glove that was thought to have been used by Ruth as a teenager at his industrial school. Some members here pointed out differences between pictures of Ruth with his glove, and the glove being auctioned. Then, some of those who were raising questions were apparently contacted by an attorney, either issuing, or threatening, a cease and desist notice.

For me, that was it. Free speech was the norm over here, and over at gameuseduniverse, not so much. I stopped going over there.

On April 23 of this year, I received an email from Chris Cavalier, which begins: "I hope this email finds you doing well. Recently, there were a few people who tried to reach me through the Game Used Universe site. As the site's founder, I am sure it seemed logical to try to reach me through the GUU. Unfortunately, my account there has been banned by the site's new owner and I am no longer able to post there or respond to anyone trying to message me through the site."

Chris went on to provide his email address at Heritage, where he is now a Consignment Director. I wish him the best and consider him to be one of the many "good guys" who used to be at that site. Out of curiosity, I checked out GUU (had problems logging in as I'd forgotten my password.) It looks like a ghost town compared to what it used to be.

So........ When I see people jumping all over Leon because he didn't instantly ban one of his advertisers over this recently breaking scandal, and then when I see people who spend quite a lot of time enjoying this site (for free) imply Leon has no "cojones" and that he can be "bought," I think it is unfair to the extreme.

Running this website costs money, and maintaining civility among all of us must be rather challenging at times. I agree with a previous poster that Leon manages this site, and keeps us all in line, in a very calm and fair way. For example, the PWCC ad issue is now resolved, and as it turns out, Leon't patient approach, to let things play out, was better than some sort of knee-jerk reaction some here advocated.

What I don't want is for the aggravation Leon has to put up with to become so great that he starts looking for his own "Goldin Parachute." Imagine if he sold this site to another auction house, or even PSA (or for that matter, PWCC.) New rules might be instituted, the current moderators would quit as they wouldn't be able to stomach those new rules, and I would have to find another hobby website, rather than watch this site degenerate the way of GUU.

Bottom line is this: I am comfortable here. If at some point I become uncomfortable, I will simply leave. But I will not try to tell Leon how to run his site, and I certainly will not insult him. If you interpret that as me having no principles, so be it.

What you are saying is you don't care who anyone deals with. You are saying it's their choice. And although true, that gives you zero credibility in judging other's character and principles, like you did with the OP. You trashed him for having principles while you ignore Leon's apparent indifference when it comes to principles. So why would anyone take you seriously. You're talking out of both sides of your mouth. Principles > doing whatever it takes for a buck. You can spin it all you want, but anyone actually paying attention to your words sees you have no credibility.

[Peter_Spaeth]

What you are saying is you don't care who anyone deals with. You are saying it's their choice. And although true, that gives you zero credibility in judging other's character and principles, like you did with the OP. You trashed him for having principles while you ignore Leon's apparent indifference when it comes to principles. So why would anyone take you seriously. You're talking out of both sides of your mouth. Principles > doing whatever it takes for a buck. You can spin it all you want, but anyone actually paying attention to your words sees you have no credibility.

I read Mark as saying as long as I get to enjoy the forum for free, I don't care where the revenue comes from. That's fine, he's entitled to feel that way, but don't be calling ME disingenuous.

[sportscardtheory]

I read Mark as saying as long as I get to enjoy the forum for free, I don't care where the revenue comes from. That's fine, he's entitled to feel that way, but don't be calling ME disingenuous.

But that's not ALL he's saying. He's trashing people for saying they don't like that the ads are here. That's a HUGE difference. If he just said what you said he said, I would have just agreed and moved on. But he took it further and trashed someone for having principles? That's completely absurd. What he's really saying is Leon can do what he wants and everyone should support him and everything he does because the site is free to use, and if you don't your'e a jerk. Really?

[Peter_Spaeth]

But that's not ALL he's saying. He's trashing people for saying they don't like that the ads are here. That's a HUGE difference. If he just said what you said he said, I would have just agreed and moved on. But he took it further and trashed someone for having principles? That's completely absurd. What he's really saying is Leon can do what he wants and everyone should support him and everything he does because the site is free to use, and if you don't your'e a jerk. Really?

Yes, I am with you 100 percent on this, that's what I was trying to say not so clearly apparently by adding, don't be calling ME disingenuous for objecting. That's where he crossed the line.

[sportscardtheory]

Yes, I am with you 100 percent on this, that's what I was trying to say not so clearly apparently by adding, don't be calling ME disingenuous for objecting. That's where he crossed the line.

Okay, I get it now.

[jhs5120]

I completely disagree. You are making it about money when it's an issue of morals and integrity. Leon, and anyone else, is certainly free to do whatever, but that doesn't excuse the behavior of the company they keep. If taking money from crooks is admirable or acceptable to you, then so be it. But you have no credibility when it comes to judging others based on principles, as you apparently have none.

Honestly, this whole thing is disingenuous. If you truly felt that PWCC advertising on this forum meant this forum was "associated" with PWCC, you would leave. Anyone who is a member of a PWCC-sponsored forum is associated with PWCC, right? Or is it just people who take their money? If so, this isn't about morals or principles, this is about money.

So long as Leon isn't stifling critical conversation of sponsors (which he CLEARLY isn't), there is no "issue of morals and integrity." What's the problem?

[sportscardtheory]

Honestly, this whole thing is disingenuous. If you truly felt that PWCC advertising on this forum meant this forum was "associated" with PWCC, you would leave. Anyone who is a member of a PWCC-sponsored forum is associated with PWCC, right? Or is it just people who take their money? If so, this isn't about morals or principles, this is about money.

So long as Leon isn't stifling critical conversation of sponsors (which he CLEARLY isn't), there is no "issue of morals and integrity." What's the problem?

I'm still here, but that doesn't mean I'm cool with the site accepting ad money from crooks. I have no business transactions with Leon, but if I did, I would end them based on the company he keeps. But I don't. This is just a message board to me. But if someone else feels strongly enough to leave, I'm certainly not going to attack THEM for having principles. That's moronic. You guys keep pretending Leon is the only one on the site who can't be held to any type of standards whatsoever because he owns/runs the site. I find that odd. Bunch of plebs. lol

[calvindog]

Is REA gone too?

[Leon]

Principles? Honesty?
Can you answer why this is your registration information?



From: Bradd Scharping [mailto:braddavery@verizon.net]
Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 1:16 PM
To: Leon Luckey
Subject: Re: contact info for Net54

sportscardtheory

Bradd Scharping

716-xxx-xxxxx



I'm still here, but that doesn't mean I'm cool with the site accepting ad money from crooks. I have no business transactions with Leon, but if I did, I would end them based on the company he keeps. But I don't. This is just a message board to me. But if someone else feels strongly enough to leave, I'm certainly not going to attack THEM for having principles. That's moronic. You guys keep pretending Leon is the only one on the site who can't be held to any type of standards whatsoever because he owns/runs the site. I find that odd. Bunch of plebs. lol

[bnorth]

I'm still here, but that doesn't mean I'm cool with the site accepting ad money from crooks. I have no business transactions with Leon, but if I did, I would end them based on the company he keeps. But I don't. This is just a message board to me. But if someone else feels strongly enough to leave, I'm certainly not going to attack THEM for having principles. That's moronic. You guys keep pretending Leon is the only one on the site who can't be held to any type of standards whatsoever because he owns/runs the site. I find that odd. Bunch of plebs. lol

LOL, no one is pretending anything. It is simple, attack Leon or call him out for something and you get banned. Do you not get that?:eek: Use emails like every one else.;)

[Leon]

So if that were the case you and several others would be banned and you aren't. You really can't comprehend or read, can you?

LOL, no one is pretending anything. It is simple, attack Leon or call him out for something and you get banned. Do you not get that?:eek: Use emails like every one else.;)

[sportscardtheory]

Principles? Honesty?
Can you answer why this is your registration information?



From: Bradd Scharping [mailto:braddavery@verizon.net]
Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 1:16 PM
To: Leon Luckey
Subject: Re: contact info for Net54

sportscardtheory

Bradd Scharping

716-xxx-xxxxx

Because when I first signed up, I signed up under a fake name thinking it didn't matter. I had used that name and email for years to sign in to message boards and such, to be anonymous. And then you asked me for my real name in like 2011. Funny how you always bring up people's identity as some sort of cryptic threat when you don't like what they have to say. I mean, we all know your name too you know.

[Leon]

LMAO, I just don't want fraudsters, just as you did in your registration, on our board. You are quite the hypocrite. There is no cryptic threat here, I am just calling a spade a spade. Everyone can see what you did for themselves. Fraudster....
And I don't remember that conversation 8? years ago so will consider that a lie too, just like your registration. BTW., please PM me with your new registration info. It will be verified as you apparently can't be trusted to be honest.

Because when I first signed up, I signed up under a fake name thinking it didn't matter. I had used that name and email for years to sign in to message boards and such, to be anonymous. And then you asked me for my real name in like 2011. Funny how you always use people's identity as some sort of cryptic threat when you don't like what they have to say.

[sportscardtheory]

LMAO, I just don't want fraudsters, just as you did in your registration, on our board. You are quite the hypocrite. There is no cryptic threat here, I am just calling a spade a spade. Everyone can see what you did for themselves. Fraudster....

What?

[Leon]

What?

One form of Fraud is intentionally deceiving someone. You already admitted to it in this thread. That is why I said everyone can read it for themselves.

[sportscardtheory]

One form of Fraud is intentionally deceiving someone. You already admitted to it in this thread. That is why I said everyone can read it for themselves.

Online anonymity is fraud? lol Yeah, okay buddy. Nice try. You are like the only forum I have ever seen that has people post their real identities and you wanna pretend that's how it is everywhere? Again, nice try.

[sportscardtheory]

fraud
/frôd/
Learn to pronounce
noun
wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain.

Call me a fraud again.

[Leon]

Again, I honestly can't' believe anything you say after a fake registration. We very well might be the only forum where people have to stand behind what they say, with their name. So there can't be pure anonymity because of that.
Once again, you need to PM me with your real registration info, just like the other 10,000+ members have on file. If you consider that a threat then maybe you need go hide out somewhere else.

Fraud - a person or thing intended to deceive others, typically by unjustifiably claiming or being credited with accomplishments or qualities. Note is says typically, not always. To me, the fraud you committed, can be a fraudulent registration...

Online anonymity is fraud? lol Yeah, okay buddy. Nice try. You are like the only forum I have ever seen that has people post their real identities and you wanna pretend that's how it is everywhere? Again, nice try.

[sportscardtheory]

Again, I honestly can't' believe anything you say after a fake registration. We very well might be the only forum where people have to stand behind what they say, with their name. So there can't be pure anonymity because of that.
Once again, you need to PM me with your real registration info, just like the other 10,000+ members have on file. If you consider that a threat then maybe you need go hide out somewhere else.

I already did. In 2011. That's why my real name is here now. You have info from 2009, but nothing from 2011?

[Leon]

I already did. In 2011. That's why my real name is here now. You have info from 2009, but nothing from 2011?

The only registration I have for you is the fraudulent one I posted.

[sportscardtheory]

The only registration I have for you is the fraudulent one I posted.

Oops. It was 2010.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showpost.php?p=812272&postcount=507

That's funny. How did I get unbanned then. I'll resend the info again. Just wondering why you don't have it already.

[frankbmd]

Frankly I’m startled by this diversion, but it does keep this thread alive until Paul returns.;)

Yes, frankly!

[sportscardtheory]

He's got an issue with me using a borrowed name to register to a website, which most people do to safeguard from doxxing, and calls me a fraud because of it, but he has no issue with purposely taking money from crooks, people who are actually committing legitimate fraud. lol That's freaking hilarious. Or sad. One of the two.

[jhs5120]

He's got a problem with me using a fake name to register to a website, which most people do to safeguard from doxxing, and calls me a fraud because of it, but he has no issue with purposely taking money from crooks, people who are actually committing legitimate fraud. lol That's freaking hilarious.

I didn't use a fake name...

You're on a free forum provided by third party advertisers. Like it or not, your membership fee was partially paid for by Brent Huigens. You participate in the BST, you conduct business here. Your entire argument seems disingenuous.

[sportscardtheory]

I didn't use a fake name...

You're on a free forum provided by third party advertisers. Like it or not, your membership fee was partially paid for by Brent Huigens. You participate in the BST, you conduct business here. Your entire argument seems disingenuous.

I don't conduct business here. What's disingenuous is calling me a fraud and not PWCC.

[jhs5120]

I don't conduct business here. What's disingenuous is calling me a fraud and not PWCC.

Well... lying to a business owner in order to gain access to his business certainly isn't the epitome of transparency.

[CuriousGeorge]

fraud
/frôd/
Learn to pronounce
noun
wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain.



From that definition it sounds like Brent might have committed fraud.

[sportscardtheory]

Well... lying to a business owner in order to gain access to his business certainly isn't the epitome of transparency.

Anyone with half a brain sees that you are being ridiculous.

[jhs5120]

Anyone with half a brain sees that you are being ridiculous.

You're right - my apologies. It is the epitome of transparency.

I have no horse in this race, if you feel that it is immoral to take money from PWCC, that is your right.

[sportscardtheory]

You're right - my apologies. It is the epitome of transparency.

I have no horse in this race, if you feel that it is immoral to take money from PWCC, that is your right.

Yes, because online anonymity is akin to defrauding unsuspecting buyers out of millions of dollars. Your'e the epitome of absurdity.

[Bpm0014]

Why would anyone even have to use a fake name to participate on a chat board??? So weird. I love the fact that we have to use our real name and be verified and held accountable for what we say.

[sportscardtheory]

Why would anyone even have to use a fake name to participate on a chat board??? So weird. I love the fact that we have to use our real name and be verified and held accountable for what we say.

When I registered 10 years ago, I thought "Why would anyone join a chat board that asks for personal information?" Doxxing, stolen identity, stalkers, nasty people with vendettas having access to your info, etc. I still think it's crazy to force people to post their personal info due to the reasons listed, but whatever. I'm not doing anything wrong. It's still risky to put yourself and others out there, even more so now than 10 years ago.

[asphaltman]

So does anyone else wish baseball would throw out the infield fly rule ?

[jhs5120]

So does anyone else wish baseball would throw out the infield fly rule ?

I think the infield fly rule is a necessity. I would personally throw out the ground rule double. If the ball bounces into the stands, it's still playable. Fans can try to hide the ball from the player or throw the ball back.

[packs]

I think the infield fly rule is a necessity. I would personally throw out the ground rule double. If the ball bounces into the stands, it's still playable. Fans can try to hide the ball from the player or throw the ball back.

I always thought it should be a ground rule triple. Hitting the ball into the stands on a fly is 4 bases, the next best thing seems like 3 and not 2.

[steve B]

Online anonymity is fraud? lol Yeah, okay buddy. Nice try. You are like the only forum I have ever seen that has people post their real identities and you wanna pretend that's how it is everywhere? Again, nice try.

Rubbish! The other two I'm active in have less anonymity than we have here.

Slipshod groups with no interest in truth and civility, sure.

[sportscardtheory]

Rubbish! The other two I'm active in have less anonymity than we have here.

Slipshod groups with no interest in truth and civility, sure.

That's funny. I'm on almost every trading card forum there is and I don't post any differently here than I do in all the ones with anonymity. This has gotten way off topic though. Which is what Leon intended, I'm sure, since there was a little heat on him in this thread. It's a tactic I've seen him use many times. Derailment. And for the record, I don't have any personal issues with Leon. He seems like a good guy just trying to get by in this crazy world. I just find him a little... inconsistent, sometimes.

[RedsFan1941]

Why would anyone even have to use a fake name to participate on a chat board??? So weird. I love the fact that we have to use our real name and be verified and held accountable for what we say.

it is not “so weird.” I bet it was 10 years that I lurked on this board before registering. I just didn’t feel comfortable handing over personal info just to talk about baseball cards. after I semi-retired and had more time on my hands, I decided to go ahead and register. I never thought about registering under a fake name, but I can understand why someone would do it.

as for The inconsistencies, that is one of the consistencies of this board. there are a large number of members who routinely post opinions with no name on their posts. oldjudge has more than 3000 posts and is quite active praising and bashing companies and people yet none of his posts currently contain his name. I don’t mind the rule now, and when I did, I chose not to post. it would be nice if the rule was enforced for everyone, especially when it is touted all the time.

[pokerplyr80]

This thread is an unfortunate example of what's wrong with this site. Way too much negativity and guys complaining about everything. Now people have a problem with where Leon gets advertising money from to support this free site? If it bothers you that much go find another free site to complain about. See how long it takes you to get banned if you complain about their advertisers and how the owner conducts his or her business.

[Peter_Spaeth]

The logic of the argument kind of reminds me of Jack Nicholson in A Few Good Men.

I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself, to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and than questions the manner in which I provide it.

[Tabe]

GUU is a ghost town because of every reason you mention. Its a shame and Ken doesn't seem to care at all. That has pushed me to the Facebook groups which are much better anyway.
Learned all I needed to know about the "new Ken Goldin" when he had a number of autographed jerseys in his first auction where the jerseys were bootlegs. When I informed him of this, he said he didn't care that the jerseys were fakes so long as the autographs were real.

[Goudey77]

The mob mentality and social media harassment is a big cultural problem.
I have recently been attacked via my Instagram page for displaying PSA cards. I get it in the form of comments and personal direct messages.
It wouldnt surprise me if this behavior keeps up we'll soon see physical altercations at card shows in the near future.
If you want to be an internet tough guy then I welcome you to bring that same voice in the real world. Just give me one guy to say something...:mad:

[buymycards]

That's funny. I'm on almost every trading card forum there is and I don't post any differently here than I do in all the ones with anonymity. This has gotten way off topic though. Which is what Leon intended, I'm sure, since there was a little heat on him in this thread. It's a tactic I've seen him use many times. Derailment. And for the record, I don't have any personal issues with Leon. He seems like a good guy just trying to get by in this crazy world. I just find him a little... inconsistent, sometimes.

John, what are you trying to hide by not using your real name? What are you afraid of? I belong to many trading card forums and dozens of other websites, but I have never considered registering under a fake name.

BTW, it is nice that you allow Leon to advertise your Reddit site for free.

Rick

[CobbSpikedMe]

Honestly it's been so long since I registered here I don't remember what info I needed to provide to do so. But I can't imagine I had to give any sensitive info like SSN or credit card info. So what's so scary about registering with you're real name? I don't know, I guess I don't get it.

[calvindog]

When strong opinions are put out publicly people get pissed sometimes. And sometimes pissed people are criminals or idiots who will try to destroy your life if given the chance. How many people have had their careers destroyed for something they’ve posted on FB or Twitter? Has no one ever heard of such a thing? I’m not surprised people wouldn’t want to give their real names on this or any site which contains strangers. I understand the point of requiring real names which is to prevent that sort of damage I described from happening. But I understand the other side too.

[Leon]

Would you rather have this site be totally anonymous?

When strong opinions are put out publicly people get pissed sometimes. And sometimes pissed people are criminals or idiots who will try to destroy your life if given the chance. How many people have had their careers destroyed for something they’ve posted on FB or Twitter? Has no one ever heard of such a thing? I’m not surprised people wouldn’t want to give their real names on this or any site which contains strangers. I understand the point of requiring real names which is to prevent that sort of damage I described from happening. But I understand the other side too.

[sportscardtheory]

Would you rather have this site be totally anonymous?

Wouldn't you accomplish the same thing by keeping that info for yourself. Forcing people to literally have it public seems only to give others who could have ulterior motives, access to information on people they don't need or deserve. Everything would be exactly the same if our identities were only know by you.

[sportscardtheory]

Honestly it's been so long since I registered here I don't remember what info I needed to provide to do so. But I can't imagine I had to give any sensitive info like SSN or credit card info. So what's so scary about registering with you're real name? I don't know, I guess I don't get it.

Do you understand what you can do to someone having just their name.

[bnorth]

When strong opinions are put out publicly people get pissed sometimes. And sometimes pissed people are criminals or idiots who will try to destroy your life if given the chance. How many people have had their careers destroyed for something they’ve posted on FB or Twitter? Has no one ever heard of such a thing? I’m not surprised people wouldn’t want to give their real names on this or any site which contains strangers. I understand the point of requiring real names which is to prevent that sort of damage I described from happening. But I understand the other side too.

Never had my life destroyed. Have had my eBay account screwed with, got my share of racist, homophobic, profanity filled PMs/emails. I also know a scum bag sellers lawyer. That was just from fellow forum members.:eek:

I still like the name rule even if it has been used by the scum to intimidate the good guy(s) calling them out.

[barrysloate]

Whether or not you remain anonymous on a chat board is a double edged sword. In some places, if you post an opinion on something controversial, such as politics or gun control, you are very likely to receive death threats from someone who disagrees with you. And this of course can be very upsetting. On the other hand, if you are allowed to post anonymously, you can pretty much say any crazy thing you want, with no consequences. If you have to put your identity out there, you are more likely to post in an intelligent matter. We tend to be more reasoned and careful with what we say with our names out in the open.

You won't get any death threats on Net54, although we did have one poster who used to wish people a painful death when they challenged him, so that was an exception. He has since passed away. I prefer having my name posted, and don't like when others are anonymous. I've had my share of arguments on the board, but I won't respond to any attacks if that person is anonymous.

Leon's rule is if you offer an opinion on a person or business that is negative, you need to have your name out. I agree with that completely, but I know not everyone else does.

[buymycards]

My thought has always been that if you don't have the balls to put your name by your post, then don't post it.

[Kenny Cole]

Whether or not you remain anonymous on a chat board is a double edged sword. In some places, if you post an opinion on something controversial, such as politics or gun control, you are very likely to receive death threats from someone who disagrees with you. And this of course can be very upsetting. On the other hand, if you are allowed to post anonymously, you can pretty much say any crazy thing you want, with no consequences. If you have to put your identity out there, you are more likely to post in an intelligent matter. We tend to be more reasoned and careful with what we say with our names out in the open.

You won't get any death threats on Net54, although we did have one poster who used to wish people a painful death when they challenged him, so that was an exception. He has since passed away. I prefer having my name posted, and don't like when others are anonymous. I've had my share of arguments on the board, but I won't respond to any attacks if that person is anonymous.

Leon's rule is if you offer an opinion on a person or business that is negative, you need to have your name out. I agree with that completely, but I know not everyone else does.

Yes. The Brucii. I will say no more because I have previously made my feelings about him well known. I also agree that you need to take personal responsibility for your posts if you are posting on a controversial topic or being negative. IMO, that is only fair. If you don't want to play, don't post. Pretty simple.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Never had my life destroyed. Have had my eBay account screwed with, got my share of racist, homophobic, profanity filled PMs/emails. I also know a scum bag sellers lawyer. That was just from fellow forum members.:eek:

I still like the name rule even if it has been used by the scum to intimidate the good guy(s) calling them out.

I am sorry to hear about those PMs and emails. There is no excuse at all for that.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Yes. The Brucii. I will say no more because I have previously made my feelings about him well known. I also agree that you need to take personal responsibility for your posts if you are posting on a controversial topic or being negative. IMO, that is only fair. If you don't want to play, don't post. Pretty simple.

They were a strange, complex man. I never personally experienced his venom -- quite to the contrary actually -- but what I saw was quite horrible.

And yet again I agree with Kenny, people should own their posts. It's baseball cards, not some whistleblower forum where one needs cover.

[Kenny Cole]

They were a strange, complex man. I never personally experienced his venom -- quite to the contrary actually -- but what I saw was quite horrible.

And yet again I agree with Kenny, people should own their posts. It's baseball cards, not some whistleblower forum where one needs cover.

I did. And others did too. As I understand it, there was some degree of dichotomy there because he wasn't that way in person. At least that's what Barry said at the time. Don't know, don't care. The stuff he said about what he hoped would happen to my wife and family still makes me furious. I will not post about what I said about him at the time because I already did that then and it doesn't matter now, but I will say that I was not sorry, nor was I regretful, when he passed. That is the understatement of the year and that's too bad. I wish I could feel otherwise but I don't.

On another note,, this situation with Peter agreeing with me MORE THAN ONCE lately is really causing me some concern. In 20 years we probably haven't agreed more than 5 times and now this all of a sudden? I may need to reevaluate my thoughts. :)

[Peter_Spaeth]

I did. And others did too. As I understand it, there was some degree of dichotomy there because he wasn't that way in person. At least that's what Barry said at the time. Don't know, don't care. The stuff he said about what he hoped would happen to my wife and family still makes me furious. I will not post about what I said about him at the time because I already did that then and it doesn't matter now, but I will say that I was not sorry, nor was I regretful, when he passed. That is the understatement of the year and that's too bad. I wish I could feel otherwise but I don't.

On another note,, this situation with Peter agreeing with me MORE THAN ONCE lately is really causing me some concern. In 20 years we probably haven't agreed more than 5 times and now this all of a sudden? I may need to reevaluate my thoughts. :)

It's quite disturbing to me as well.

[CobbSpikedMe]

Do you understand what you can do to someone having just their name.

Apparently not. But my name is already on the web I'm sure so I'm not too worried about it being on a baseball card forum too. Oh well. :rolleyes:

[steve B]

That's funny. I'm on almost every trading card forum there is and I don't post any differently here than I do in all the ones with anonymity. This has gotten way off topic though. Which is what Leon intended, I'm sure, since there was a little heat on him in this thread. It's a tactic I've seen him use many times. Derailment. And for the record, I don't have any personal issues with Leon. He seems like a good guy just trying to get by in this crazy world. I just find him a little... inconsistent, sometimes.

The bicycle board/list I'm on requires full name, and location on every post.

On the stamp one, I can't think of anyone I see regularly who isn't using their own name. Most of them are well known dealers, authors and collectors.

I haven't really found other sportscard lists to be all that interesting, although Blowout seems pretty good most f the traffic there is in the "look at my grades" or "who knew Score issued cards in 92?!" sort of category.

[steve B]

Whether or not you remain anonymous on a chat board is a double edged sword. In some places, if you post an opinion on something controversial, such as politics or gun control, you are very likely to receive death threats from someone who disagrees with you. And this of course can be very upsetting. On the other hand, if you are allowed to post anonymously, you can pretty much say any crazy thing you want, with no consequences. If you have to put your identity out there, you are more likely to post in an intelligent matter. We tend to be more reasoned and careful with what we say with our names out in the open.

You won't get any death threats on Net54, although we did have one poster who used to wish people a painful death when they challenged him, so that was an exception. He has since passed away. I prefer having my name posted, and don't like when others are anonymous. I've had my share of arguments on the board, but I won't respond to any attacks if that person is anonymous.

Leon's rule is if you offer an opinion on a person or business that is negative, you need to have your name out. I agree with that completely, but I know not everyone else does.

And, to be totally honest, when I joined, I'd read some oldcardboard emails for a couple years. Finally decided to check out the board, and was happy to see a few names I remembered from years ago. (I'm pretty low key in real life until I know people, and only used to get to a couple shows a year. )

Barry was one of the ones I recognized, and I figured if he was here the place might just be ok.
(Full disclosure, I never bought anything from Barry, just read the ads and wanted pretty much every card in them... )

If everyone was anonymous, I might never have joined.

Now don't go giving Barry a hard time over that!

[calvindog]

I haven't really found other sportscard lists to be all that interesting, although Blowout seems pretty good most f the traffic there is in the "look at my grades" or "who knew Score issued cards in 92?!" sort of category.

And uncovering the biggest and most wide-ranging scandal perhaps in the history of the hobby.

[Peter_Spaeth]

My Ronald Acuna Jr. Collection

[calvindog]

$10 Parking Fee is Worse Than Anal Cancer

[frankbmd]

$10 Parking Fee is Worse Than Anal Cancer

Yeah, you don’t want me to go there.:eek:

[Exhibitman]

Hey guys, how about a little more of this

https://photos.imageevent.com/exhibitman/dropins/websize/Gehringer.jpg

and less of this?

https://photos.imageevent.com/exhibitman/dropins/poo%20toss.jpg

[steve B]

And uncovering the biggest and most wide-ranging scandal perhaps in the history of the hobby.

That's what's changing my mind.
The bulk of it seems like just so much fluff, but the good bits are amazing.

[kateighty]

It's quite disturbing to me as well.

Awww Kenny and Peter, I'm getting all misty eyed. This gives me hope!