CLCT stock down 9.13% today

[chalupacollects]

OK stocks generally drop a bit after declaring a dividend but over 9% in one day may mean word is getting around... plus another $3.88% so far today - 6/4/2019. Surely the coffee is brewing in the boardroom by now.

[jhs5120]

I actually sold my stock on 5/29 because of this.

[Bicem]

Short it. More room to fall in my opinion as word spreads.

[Rhotchkiss]

Love this. PSA needs to address this scandal and ultimately its grading standards/procedures. Nothing will get a public company to act quicker than falling stock prices.

[joshuanip]

Short it. More room to fall in my opinion as word spreads.


It's not the shorts, the borrow actually increased from Friday and the borrow rate remains at 2%. Also, we are talking just about 1MM market value traded today, too small to make it count for the book. This is just retail selling. But it has the same affect/pressure!

[Peter_Spaeth]

On something like this I would defer to investment professionals who understand the risks and advantages of shorting and the dynamics of a particular security, I wouldn't do it just as a casual investor who thinks based on some message board activity the stock is going down. People who do stuff like that get eaten alive. Now a professional may well evaluate all the facts and say yeah it's a good risk, just saying it's complicated.

[joshuanip]

On something like this I would defer to investment professionals who understand the risks and advantages of shorting, I wouldn't do it just as a casual investor who thinks based on some message board activity the stock is going down. People who do stuff like that get eaten alive. Now a professional may well evaluate all the facts and say yeah it's a good risk, just saying it's complicated.


A professional would look at it and say - its too small and event risk is not yet defined... ;)

[CuriousGeorge]

It's not the shorts, the borrow actually increased from Friday and the borrow rate remains at 2%. Also, we are talking just about 1MM market value traded today, too small to make it count for the book. This is just retail selling. But it has the same affect/pressure!

There was short pressure on the stock all day. Problem is it’s so thinly traded any selling pushed it down so don’t confuse a slightly elevated volume day with just retail selling. Hard to sell a lot when there’s no buyers and market makers won’t take volume.

[joshuanip]

There was short pressure on the stock all day. Problem is it’s so thinly traded any selling pushed it down so don’t confuse a slightly elevated volume day with just retail selling. Hard to sell a lot when there’s no buyers and market makers won’t take volume.

short interest <1% of float.

[calvindog]

On something like this I would defer to investment professionals who understand the risks and advantages of shorting and the dynamics of a particular security, I wouldn't do it just as a casual investor who thinks based on some message board activity the stock is going down. People who do stuff like that get eaten alive. Now a professional may well evaluate all the facts and say yeah it's a good risk, just saying it's complicated.

Are you nuts? You’d defer to an investment professional instead of shooting your fool mouth off about something you have no education or experience in? What is wrong with you?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Are you nuts? You’d defer to an investment professional instead of shooting your fool mouth off about something you have no education or experience in? What is wrong with you?

lolz

[swarmee]

https://media1.tenor.com/images/c303a3365b830959e1e9a5fa3a57bffd/tenor.gif?itemid=10102725

I like how the quote resembles the "bring the pain" phrase.

Edit 2: Disclaimer: This is not to be considered financial advice.

[Bicem]

Are you nuts? You’d defer to an investment professional instead of shooting your fool mouth off about something you have no education or experience in? What is wrong with you?

Where's the fun in that?

[CuriousGeorge]

short interest <1% of float.

Not a ton of stock available to borrow.

[joshuanip]

I see 1M available at MS. Im sure GS has similar size, its easy institutional borrow.

[egbeachley]

Still up 60% for the year.........

[CuriousGeorge]

Won’t be for long.

[pgconboy]

Hopefully they drop another 9% tomorrow.

[the 'stache]

On something like this I would defer to investment professionals who understand the risks and advantages of shorting and the dynamics of a particular security, I wouldn't do it just as a casual investor who thinks based on some message board activity the stock is going down. People who do stuff like that get eaten alive. Now a professional may well evaluate all the facts and say yeah it's a good risk, just saying it's complicated.

You have more sense than the average investor trading on margin, at least in my personal experience.

Oh, how I hope to see NASDAQ delist CLCT at some point in the not too distant future.

[Dpeck100]

Interesting to watch CLCT trade. It is amazing how 100 share lots can move this stock so easily.

These guys putting on their little short positions are just racing it lower and if they want to cover will race it right back up.

The bid ask spread on this stock makes it such a challenging trading stock.

It will be interesting to see what happens with this 2,700 share offer right here.

[Republicaninmass]

Y'all realize it's doubled since January? 9% down could be just profit taking. Wait the sky is falling

[Dpeck100]

Y'all realize it's doubled since January? 9% down could be just profit taking. Wait the sky is falling

It may very well be just that.

These guys saying they were going to short it and buy puts definitely did yesterday. The open interest in the January 2020 Puts moved up a lot. Those are very tough options to be playing with.

[Scott L.]

Do the folks openly wishing for the demise of PSA & CLCT not own any PSA graded cards? Do they care that many people on this board could be materially affected by that outcome? Some of those people whom they would proabbly consider a friend.

Seems like a curious stance to me.

[swarmee]

Do the folks openly wishing for the demise of PSA & CLCT not own any PSA graded cards? Do they care that many people on this board could be materially affected by that outcome? Some of those people whom they would proabbly consider a friend.

Seems like a curious stance to me.

The fraud is so pervasive we should just let it keep happening!

[Scott L.]

The fraud is so pervasive we should just let it keep happening!

Yeah John that's exactly what I'm saying.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Do the folks openly wishing for the demise of PSA & CLCT not own any PSA graded cards? Do they care that many people on this board could be materially affected by that outcome? Some of those people whom they would proabbly consider a friend.

Seems like a curious stance to me.

Scott puts his finger on exactly why the truth has stayed beneath the surface for so long. Why dealers and major collectors who absolutely knew the extent of this kept quiet. Why it took a few guys on BO, like the kid who pointed out the emperor had no clothes, to open the can of worms.

[Scott L.]

Scott puts his finger on exactly why the truth has stayed beneath the surface for so long. Why dealers and major collectors who absolutely knew the extent of this kept quiet. Why it took a few guys on BO, like the kid who pointed out the emperor had no clothes, to open the can of worms.

Good point Peter, thank you. I agree. Maybe there is no happy medium or fair resolution other than a complete tear down. That was what I was getting at. Is there one?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Good point Peter, thank you. I agree. Maybe there is no happy medium or fair resolution other than a complete tear down. That was what I was getting at. Is there one?

I don't know. I am hoping there is a way to weed out the bad bricks without collapsing the house, but I don't know what it is.

[steve B]

Yeah John that's exactly what I'm saying.

So given that they're either crooked, or totally incompetent you think we should still trust their grades and opinions?
So that people who bought the hype don't lose money....

If they're crooked, yes they should fail.
If they have no idea what they're doing, they need to get a clue quickly.

I have a few PSA cards, a few more SGC, a couple Beckett, I think one GAI, and one Acu-Card, and maybe one or two others.

Acu-Card couldn't spot trimming either....
http://www.net54baseball.com/picture.php?albumid=123&pictureid=6171

[Peter_Spaeth]

So given that they're either crooked, or totally incompetent you think we should still trust their grades and opinions?
So that people who bought the hype don't lose money....

If they're crooked, yes they should fail.
If they have no idea what they're doing, they need to get a clue quickly.

I have a few PSA cards, a few more SGC, a couple Beckett, I think one GAI, and one Acu-Card, and maybe one or two others.

Acu-Card couldn't spot trimming either....
http://www.net54baseball.com/picture.php?albumid=123&pictureid=6171

Alan Hager indeed.

[vintagetoppsguy]

So given that they're either crooked, or totally incompetent you think we should still trust their grades and opinions?
So that people who bought the hype don't lose money....

If they're crooked, yes they should fail.
If they have no idea what they're doing, they need to get a clue quickly yes they should fail as well.

I have a few PSA cards, a few more SGC, a couple Beckett, I think one GAI, and one Acu-Card, and maybe one or two others.

I agree with you with one minor correction.

[swarmee]

I know I am asking a lot God, but would you spare this company if there are 100 tainted slabs? And if I survey and find 1000 tainted slabs, will you save this company? I may be impertinent, will you save PSA if there are only 10,000 tainted slabs?

[perezfan]

Do the folks openly wishing for the demise of PSA & CLCT not own any PSA graded cards? Do they care that many people on this board could be materially affected by that outcome? Some of those people whom they would proabbly consider a friend.

Seems like a curious stance to me.

I knew this attitude was widespread, but this is the most clearly I have seen it articulated yet...

We may (and should) take some short-term financial hits, but purely for the betterment of the hobby on a long-term basis. Another TPG or two will undoubtedly emerge when PSA goes down. Or perhaps raw cards will make a comeback. I am hoping for the latter, as I personally feel TPGs corrupt the hobby and their grades do not do not accurately convey a card's true condition or aesthetic appeal.

If they could simply (and correctly) identify a card as altered or original, and let us decide the number grade for ourselves, then I might feel differently. But they cannot even detect obvious alterations at this point. So under this current system... What's the point of having it?

[T206Collector]

Do the folks openly wishing for the demise of PSA & CLCT not own any PSA graded cards? Do they care that many people on this board could be materially affected by that outcome? Some of those people whom they would proabbly consider a friend.

Seems like a curious stance to me.

I am wishing less for the demise of PSA and more for the rise of a TPG that can restore confidence to a market that has been undone by the internet, which ironically fueled the fire for so long. This is the first time in the hobby's history that before and after pics are so prevalent. It is what exposed the signed T206 scandal, and it is what is exposing all of this awful tampering.

Even though I have dozens of autographed pre-war cards, I say shine the light on the fraud. Let's get this mess cleaned up and do things the right way. I don't have a viable solution, but that doesn't mean I want to live with the problem.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I am sure many people are evaluating whether to sell or reduce. Including me. It's really sad that it's reached this point, but so it goes. Thanks to all the perpetrators, much appreciated. Good for the hobby indeed.

[T206Collector]

I am sure many people are evaluating whether to sell or reduce. Including me. It's really sad that it's reached this point, but so it goes. Thanks to all the perpetrators, much appreciated. Good for the hobby indeed.

I've just narrowed my purchasing substantially. I was picking up some unsigned cards for awhile, but want to shift my focus towards raw or low grade items. Going forward, I'll be searching histories of cards online before putting down any meaningful money. But the 20+ years I've been picking up the occasional PSA 5 or SGC 60 T206 card on a whim? Not again until there's a better mousetrap.

[Exhibitman]

I wouldn't mind seeing TPGs crash and burn as a whole, or at least have their influence over the financial fortunes of collectors greatly diminished.

I hope this scandal convinces the great mass of collectors that TPGs are unnecessary to their collecting and that they would be much happier if they weren't chasing plastic cases and getting all bunged up over what number some jackhole slaps on the score sheet.

I hope there will be and end to my having to spend the money and time to get cards graded for sale so that the average buyer won't think there is something wrong with the card, when I damned well know that there is something wrong with so many slabbed cards.

I hope that one day I won't have to store and ship these stupid f***ing plastic tombstones.

[Scott L.]

I am wishing less for the demise of PSA and more for the rise of a TPG that can restore confidence to a market that has been undone by the internet, which ironically fueled the fire for so long. This is the first time in the hobby's history that before and after pics are so prevalent. It is what exposed the signed T206 scandal, and it is what is exposing all of this awful tampering.

Even though I have dozens of autographed pre-war cards, I say shine the light on the fraud. Let's get this mess cleaned up and do things the right way. I don't have a viable solution, but that doesn't mean I want to live with the problem.

Thanks for all the thoughtful responses. It would be interesting to see what a new TPG would look like. It certainly couldn’t operate to the massive scale of PSA and expected to be effective.

Market up big today and CLCT down around 3%.

[steve B]

I believe PSA will survive, with a few ifs
If they aren't complicit at the management level.
And if they manage to get it together enough to restore confidence.

The Philatelic Foundation, which has an excellent reputation went through a similar scandal in the mid 80's, and actually has someone on the inside involved. They did a lot of work to rebuild confidence, and it took quite some time. At the time, they didn't grade, just authenticated.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1985-09-30-8503070069-story.html

At the moment, all three companies have had what are pretty major issues. They'll all need to address that in one way or another.
SGC has abandoned doing autographs, probably the right move.
What PSA will do about so many altered cards getting through, or what Beckett will do about a former employee getting what appears to be favorable treatment, we'll have to wait for.

[sportscardtheory]

I find it strange, the people downplaying and minimizing this situation. A card in a PSA or BGS slab is supposed to PROTECT us from fraud, not CONCEAL fraud. They have literally failed at the most basic level of their business' mission statements. They have essentially destroyed all faith in their "product", but it's gonna pass over and people are gonna forget? Okay. They sell peace of mind. Well, nice job. EVERY PSA/BGS graded card is suspect now.

[ullmandds]

I find it strange, the people downplaying and minimizing this situation. A card in a PSA or BGS slab is supposed to PROTECT us from fraud, not CONCEAL fraud. They have literally failed at the most basic level of their business' mission statements. They have essentially destroyed all faith in their "product", but it's gonna pass over and people are gonna forget? Okay. They sell peace of mind. Well, nice job. EVERY PSA/BGS graded card is suspect now.

yup!

[robkas68]

I understand the anger, but letting it burn is not exactly an answer. Yes, everybody feels better if a couple people go to jail, but let’s face it that there are a lot of innocent people that are hurt by this. On a smaller scale, it is no different than the housing crisis. A bunch of people did a bunch of terrible things that created a bubble and the crash, but they were not the ones that paid. Yes, a couple people went to jail, but not many.

I never bought a house I couldn’t afford or speculated on real estate, but when I sold my single family middle class home in Florida because I took a new job, I lost 95k. I am fortunate enough that 95k didn’t effect my ability to feed my family but some people lost everything (and they were not the speculators).

When I suggest we start a trade association I understand the hurdles involved, time, money, acceptance, etc. This scandal only brought to light what we already sort of knew, that there are not a lot of controls to help keep it clean. That doesn’t mean it will be completely clean... the stock market isn’t despite the SEC. However, it is clean enough that people still view it as legitimate despite a history of scandals that still dwarf anything PWCC has ever done. Since the hobby will never be important enough to warrant the federal baseball card exchange commission, it is pretty much up to us.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I understand the anger, but letting it burn is not exactly an answer. Yes, everybody feels better if a couple people go to jail, but let’s face it that there are a lot of innocent people that are hurt by this. On a smaller scale, it is no different than the housing crisis. A bunch of people did a bunch of terrible things that created a bubble and the crash, but they were not the ones that paid. Yes, a couple people went to jail, but not many.

I never bought a house I couldn’t afford or speculated on real estate, but when I sold my single family middle class home in Florida because I took a new job, I lost 95k. I am fortunate enough that 95k didn’t effect my ability to feed my family but some people lost everything (and they were not the speculators).

When I suggest we start a trade association I understand the hurdles involved, time, money, acceptance, etc. This scandal only brought to light what we already sort of knew, that there are not a lot of controls to help keep it clean. That doesn’t mean it will be completely clean... the stock market isn’t despite the SEC. However, it is clean enough that people still view it as legitimate despite a history of scandals that still dwarf anything PWCC has ever done. Since the hobby will never be important enough to warrant the federal baseball card exchange commission, it is pretty much up to us.

I am sure people will listen if you have a specific proposal, do you have one?

[robkas68]

Sure, I have some ideas. Getting on a plane, but I will throw some things out on this forum.

[Fballguy]

Why would any TPG that can't detect an altered card even be allowed to exist?

If you can't provide the service you're supposedly an expert at, why do we need you?

[perezfan]

Why would any TPG that can't detect an altered card even be allowed to exist?

If you can't provide the service you're supposedly an expert at, why do we need you?

Maybe we would see a need for them if they'd get off their ass and issue a statement. Right now their lawyers are likely conjuring up some canned meaningless response, while the jury is out....

50% chance it's simple ineptitude
50% chance it's favorable treatment to preferred customers

Can't be much of anything else. Here's a novel idea... Just provide a truthful explanation. Otherwise they should indeed cease to exist.

[Beastmode]

CU pays a dividend. That's insane. Take that money and invest in technology that can detect what the card manipulators are doing. Create a business that can detect trimming/coloring/stretching, etc., and put a real guarantee on it. Then charge a boatload for that experience.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Sure, I have some ideas. Getting on a plane, but I will throw some things out on this forum.

Look forward to it.

[aconte]

I've just narrowed my purchasing substantially. I was picking up some unsigned cards for awhile, but want to shift my focus towards raw or low grade items. Going forward, I'll be searching histories of cards online before putting down any meaningful money. But the 20+ years I've been picking up the occasional PSA 5 or SGC 60 T206 card on a whim? Not again until there's a better mousetrap.


That's where I'm at too now!

I am sure many people are evaluating whether to sell or reduce. Including me. It's really sad that it's reached this point, but so it goes. Thanks to all the perpetrators, much appreciated. Good for the hobby indeed.

Aint that the truth. This one really hurt. I've been dodging this stuff since
2002 or so in this format. The grading skills are just not there. The crooks
are just relentless and won't go away. I'm down to buying cheapo cards
from now on just to have some fun from time to time. It's over Johnny!

[aconte]

I'd like to hear from all those in the business including auction houses,
full time card dealers, and others why should anyone continue to drop
serious coin in this hobby? The statements made by the so called hobby
leaders have been pathetic the last day or so.

Do the dealers and auction houses care about their customers to hope
for change or are you hopeful this shit just goes away and if the damage
is we lose a couple collectors no biggie?

[drcy]

"... like the kid who pointed out the emperor had no clothes, to open the can of worms."

Like the mix of metaphors

[aconte]

I've just narrowed my purchasing substantially. I was picking up some unsigned cards for awhile, but want to shift my focus towards raw or low grade items. Going forward, I'll be searching histories of cards online before putting down any meaningful money. But the 20+ years I've been picking up the occasional PSA 5 or SGC 60 T206 card on a whim? Not again until there's a better mousetrap.


That's where I'm at too now!

I am sure many people are evaluating whether to sell or reduce. Including me. It's really sad that it's reached this point, but so it goes. Thanks to all the perpetrators, much appreciated. Good for the hobby indeed.

Aint that the truth. This one really hurt. I've been dodging this stuff since
2002 or so in this format. The grading skills are just not there. The crooks
are just relentless and won't go away. I'm down to buying cheapo cards
from now on just to have some fun from time to time. It's over Johnny!

[Peter_Spaeth]

"... like the kid who pointed out the emperor had no clothes, to open the can of worms."

Like the mix of metaphors

Some days I'm less literate than others.

[RiceBondsMntna2Young]

I've just narrowed my purchasing substantially. I was picking up some unsigned cards for awhile, but want to shift my focus towards raw or low grade items. Going forward, I'll be searching histories of cards online before putting down any meaningful money. But the 20+ years I've been picking up the occasional PSA 5 or SGC 60 T206 card on a whim? Not again until there's a better mousetrap.

I'm not sure I've seen much discussion about the bleakest outcome. What if it's proven - statistically or otherwise - that a massive majority of PSA 4+ vintage in circulation has been recently doctored? While the remainder will merely exist under a cloud of suspicion? Add all that to the conflict of interest any owner of a slabbed card has right now?

Even after Huigens & Co are given their last rites, PWCC’s toxic tenets may survive him. We may find ourselves in a landscape where we adjust to a new normal and take alterations as they are. Because otherwise, we're just going to have a massive mish mosh of Authentic, to varying degrees of eye appeal.