T206 Wagner PSA 2 sold for $1.2M

[Steve D]

ESPN.Com reports that SCP (Dave Kohler) has brokered a private sale of a PSA 2 Wagner for $1.2M.

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/26842360/wagner-card-good-2-condition-goes-12m

According to Kohler, it's the same Wagner that Heritage sold for $776,750 in 2016, and Lelands sold for $657,250 in 2014.

Here's a picture of the card from T206resource.com:

http://t206resource.com/Images/Wagner/13.jpg

Here's an image from FoxNews.com, that was evidently provided by SCP, which shows the card has been reholdered:

https://a57.foxnews.com/static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/content/uploads/2019/05/1862/1048/MLB-Honus-Wagner.jpg?ve=1&tl=1

Steve

[CobbSpikedMe]

A little mature conservation to those corners and you'll see a 4 for sale in a few months...;)

But seriously, that's a hell of a sale for a PSA 2.

[GasHouseGang]

I guess it's true, you have to have money to make money!:D

[Throttlesteer]

No chance that gets a 2 if submitted today. I would still take it though.

[Bigdaddy]

No chance that gets a 2 if submitted today. I would still take it though.

Agree, those corners aren't just worn, they are MIA.

[Jdoggs]

Wow I remember psa 2 wagners were in $600k range few years ago.

[biggsdaddycool]

Realistically, the color and centering is very nice on this one. There’s a whole lot worse looking examples running around out there.

If I win that Powerball... [emoji6]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ullmandds]

This story is all over the national media...yet none regarding "the scandal?"

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

This story is all over the national media...yet none regarding "the scandal?"

Hold my beer...

[JeffPrice]

This was sold 6/7 months ago. I have seen the card in person and it's nice, strong color and just great eye appeal.

[MHCC]

It has come to my attention that this card has reached that national media. I'd like to inform the collecting community that we have acquired this T206 Honus Wagner PSA 2 as well as the 1909-11 T206 Ty Cobb/ Ty Cobb Reverse PSA 4.5 from the Lucky 7 find and each of the cards will be featured in my October 2019 auction and will be on display at the National in Chicago at the Mile High Card Co. booth. We will be issuing a Press Release concerning this next week

[calvindog]

It has come to my attention that this card has reached that national media. I'd like to inform the collecting community that we have acquired this T206 Honus Wagner PSA 2 as well as the 1909-11 T206 Ty Cobb/ Ty Cobb Reverse PSA 4.5 from the Lucky 7 find and each of the cards will be featured in my October 2019 auction and will be on display at the National in Chicago at the Mile High Card Co. booth. We will be issuing a Press Release concerning this next week

Perfect timing!

[Steve D]

It has come to my attention that this card has reached that national media. I'd like to inform the collecting community that we have acquired this T206 Honus Wagner PSA 2 as well as the 1909-11 T206 Ty Cobb/ Ty Cobb Reverse PSA 4.5 from the Lucky 7 find and each of the cards will be featured in my October 2019 auction and will be on display at the National in Chicago at the Mile High Card Co. booth. We will be issuing a Press Release concerning this next week


Why would you (or someone else) buy the Wagner outright for that much, just to turn around and immediately put it up for auction?

That just seems to be an awfully dangerous and risky move.

Steve

[Leon]

I won't speak for Brian (hey Brian) but he didn't say he bought it. I think it was consigned.

Why would you buy the Wagner outright for that much, just to turn around and immediately put it up for auction?

That just seems to be an awfully dangerous and risky move.

Steve

[Peter_Spaeth]

Why would you buy the Wagner outright for that much, just to turn around and immediately put it up for auction?

That just seems to be an awfully dangerous and risky move.

Steve

It's certainly great publicity for the auction.

[MHCC]

The cards were consigned to the auction, we did not purchase the two cards.

[ValKehl]

I'm suspecting there will be a $1.2M reserve on it.

[oldjudge]

Interesting that someone would pay over 50% above the last sale and then immediately consign it to an auction where a 20% buyers premium is tacked on and expect to make money. With all due respect to a Brian, it also seems strange that if one was taking such a big risk that they would not consign the card to either Heritage or REA where the catalogs would reach the most potential bidders..

[swarmee]

Well, maybe it's the summer of 2016 again. Or maybe the owner didn't plan on doing that, but got frightened by the ongoing PSA scandal and decided to cut his losses.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Well, maybe it's the summer of 2016 again. Or maybe the owner didn't plan on doing that, but got frightened by the ongoing PSA scandal and decided to cut his losses.

If that card is altered, it's all over.:cool:

[Peter_Spaeth]

Interesting that someone would pay over 50% above the last sale and then immediately consign it to an auction where a 20% buyers premium is tacked on and expect to make money. With all due respect to a Brian, it also seems strange that if one was taking such a big risk that they would not consign the card to either Heritage or REA where the catalogs would reach the most potential bidders..

As Jeff alluded to, also interesting that the story comes out one day and the next day Mile High posts that it will be for sale in its auction.

[jchcollins]

How is that card a 2? Eye-appeal being decent for the rest I will agree - those corners are destroyed. I think that's an A or 1 at most.

[swarmee]

Graded at least 10 years ago, and it got the Honus Bonus half grade bump....

[benjulmag]

How is that card a 2? Eye-appeal being decent for the rest I will agree - those corners are destroyed. I think that's an A or 1 at most.

I agree the corners are very bad, but the overall registration and appearance of the player image on the card (which to me is the most important aspect) seems a lot better than most of the 1's I have seen. Part of the problem are the descriptions given to the numerical grades. Once you get to a 6, ex-mt, which if properly graded is a very nice looking card, especially for pre-war, a with half grades included there are 7 additional categories. In contrast, once you go below a "2", which is "good", there are only two additional numerical categories to go all the way down to complete trash.

[jchcollins]

I agree the corners are very bad, but the overall registration and appearance of the player image on the card (which to me is the most important aspect) seems a lot better than most of the 1's I have seen. Part of the problem are the descriptions given to the numerical grades. Once you get to a 6, ex-mt, which if properly graded is a very nice looking card, especially for pre-war, a with half grades included there are 7 additional categories. In contrast, once you go below a "2", which is "good", there are only two additional numerical categories to go all the way down to complete trash.

Why grading will always be subjective. Buy the card, not the grade. Especially if it's a T206 Wagner, lol.

[benjulmag]

Why grading will always be subjective. Buy the card, not the grade. Especially if it's a T206 Wagner, lol.

Truer words have never been said.:)

[Sean]

Interesting that someone would pay over 50% above the last sale and then immediately consign it to an auction where a 20% buyers premium is tacked on and expect to make money.

This was my first thought as well.

[calvindog]

Maybe it didn’t sell for $1.2 million. Wouldn’t that make more sense?

[Leon]

Yes.
Maybe it didn’t sell for $1.2 million. Wouldn’t that make more sense?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Maybe it didn’t sell for $1.2 million. Wouldn’t that make more sense?

Early on in the hobby, pre-internet days, when I was telling a dealer friend some prices realized by an AH made no sense, he pointed out that anyone can report any price they like.

[oldjudge]

Is it a crime to report a baseball card transaction which never took place? I know in the natural gas industry guys have gone to jail for 5+ years for reporting sales that never took place.

[oldjudge]

Steve-I can't find the article you posted, but the articles I did find had Koehler discussing the card, but not explicitly saying that he had brokered the deal. Do you have one stating that Kohler was involved in the transaction?

[Steve D]

Steve-I can't find the article you posted, but the articles I did find had Koehler discussing the card, but not explicitly saying that he had brokered the deal. Do you have one stating that Kohler was involved in the transaction?

Here's the article by Rich Mueller:

https://www.sportscollectorsdaily.com/t206-wagner-card-sells-for-1-2-million/

Quote: "The PSA 2 (Good) example sold privately this week for $1.2 million, according to SCP Auctions, which brokered the transaction."

Here's the article on TMZ:

https://www.tmz.com/2019/05/29/honus-wagner-mlb-baseball-card-sells-million-dollars/

Quote: "The private sale was brokered by SCP Auctions in SoCal."

Additionally, every website carrying the story quotes David Kohler of SCP Auctions. Why would he be quoted about it, and why would he even know which PSA 2 Wagner was involved, if he isn't involved in the sale, and the person releasing the information?

Steve

[calvindog]

Is it a crime to report a baseball card transaction which never took place? I know in the natural gas industry guys have gone to jail for 5+ years for reporting sales that never took place.

Yes, it can be a crime.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Yes, it can be a crime.

RICO? :cool::eek::D

[swarmee]

Logical questions:

1a) Is it also a crime to leave up a sold price from a card that was never paid for?
1b) Or one that was refunded for any reason? This also bleeds into the PWCC/PSA/BGS scandal.

2a) Are VCP/APR/PWCC sold prices tools tainted by thousands of fake sales or refunded sales?
2b) How will these be identified and swept out of the databases?

3) Does Mile High do reserves?

4) Who is the mystery buyer/consignor?

5) Should auctionhouses name their consignors of every item going forward due to this scandal? If Moser/Burge/Tormollan/etc submit under a different name, but the name is now displayed in the listing, are their buddies really going to submit on their behalf?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Logical questions:

1a) Is it also a crime to leave up a sold price from a card that was never paid for?
1b) Or one that was refunded for any reason? This also bleeds into the PWCC/PSA/BGS scandal.

2a) Are VCP/APR/PWCC sold prices tools tainted by thousands of fake sales or refunded sales?
2b) How will these be identified and swept out of the databases?

3) Does Mile High do reserves?

4) Who is the mystery buyer/consignor?

5) Should auctionhouses name their consignors of every item going forward due to this scandal? If Moser/Burge/Tormollan/etc submit under a different name, but the name is now displayed in the listing, are their buddies really going to submit on their behalf?

IMO, given the number of cards many of these AHs get from card doctors, I seriously doubt this will happen. And I could see why even an AH that wasn't taking (knowingly) any cards from bad sources would want to safeguard the ID of their clients absent express permission.

[calvindog]

rico? :cool::eek::d

lol

[Peter_Spaeth]

lol

I hear it's easy to bring those claims. :eek:

[sando69]

hmmmmm, peter….
wonder which ah that could have been... ;)

[sando69]

I've often considered the sports memorabilia and the natural gas industries to be one and the same! :eek:

[steve B]

I hear it's easy to bring those claims. :eek:

Being a total amateur I expect I'd mess it up somehow.

Judge " why do you think this is a rico case"
Me " well.... the guy who sold me the card had one of those sleeveless t-shirt things, too many gold chains and some really shady looking sunglasses... "

Thanks, I'll be here all week. Don't forget to tip the bartender!

[Rhotchkiss]

So SCP brokers a private sale and then it gets listed with Mile High? Why not consign it directly to SCP? Something very fishy about the whole thing. Regardless, it is one hell of a card, and I would be honored to own one like it someday. At this point, I personally could care less about whether the grade is accurate- it’s a T206 Wagner with a very clean and clear picture. It’s a beast.

If the over-under is $1.44mm after buyers premium, I am taking a big bet on the under. But great card.

[MHCC]

Just wanted to attempt to make it clear that although the press release from SCP stated that the Wagner was sold recently it actually was sold to our consignor last October/November and it will be sold in my October 2019 auction

[oldjudge]

Brian-Is it true that the regraded Boston Store Ruth will be in your auction and, if so, was it consigned or is it yours?

[Rhotchkiss]

Brian, congrats on the consignment- it’s a hell of a centerpiece for your next auction.

[Peter_Spaeth]

So why is a story released today on a sale last year.

[MHCC]

Jay,
It’s true that the Boston Store Ruth is in my next auction and it was consigned and isn’t mine. Peter, to answer your question, I really don’t have the foggiest idea why SCP issued the PR that long after the sale. It absolutely doesn’t make sense and I’m not sure of the motive other than taking credit for a record sale while they could before it became known that the card will be offered by my company.

[MHCC]

And Thank You Ryan for the kind words regarding the Wagner, it certainly is a great centerpiece as is the Cobb/Cobb PSA 4.5!

[Steve D]

Just wanted to attempt to make it clear that although the press release from SCP stated that the Wagner was sold recently it actually was sold to our consignor last October/November and it will be sold in my October 2019 auction


Thank you for clarifying the time-frame for us Brian.

I agree that it is a great card, and, as a T206 collector, I really wish it (and the Plank) weren't so darned rare; so I could complete my set.

Steve

[Rhotchkiss]

And Thank You Ryan for the kind words regarding the Wagner, it certainly is a great centerpiece as is the Cobb/Cobb PSA 4.5!

Which brings a higher hammer -- a T206 Wagner PSA 2 or a PSA 4.5 Cobb/Cobb Back? Thats a toughie, but I sure cant wait to see!

[Leon]

I think Wags all day long.... but we will see.
Which brings a higher hammer -- a T206 Wagner PSA 2 or a PSA 4.5 Cobb/Cobb Back? Thats a toughie, but I sure cant wait to see!

[iowadoc77]

I think Wagner will go highest just because it is sooooo iconic but the Cobb will go for a stupid amount as well. 2 really big hitters in one auction!

[mark evans]

I likewise would love to own the Wagner. As I don't think my government pension will stretch, I will be relying on Powerball.

[ullmandds]

Which brings a higher hammer -- a T206 Wagner PSA 2 or a PSA 4.5 Cobb/Cobb Back? Thats a toughie, but I sure cant wait to see!

no contest...the wagner will double the hammer of the cobb.

[Steve D]

no contest...the wagner will double the hammer of the cobb.


I don't know that the Wagner will go for double the Cobb. IIRC, the PSA 4.5 is the highest-graded Cobb back, and it came from the "Lucky-7" find.

I think both will hit the $1M mark.

Steve

[Rhotchkiss]

Steve, I agree with you. I think the Wagner goes for more, but the highest graded Cobb/Cobb with the Lucky 7 provenance is very worthy indeed. I think they both go over $1mm, the Wagner sells for a bid or two more, and they both land somewhere in the $1mm-$1.2mm range. Then again, I was confident that my max amount would be sufficient to be the high bidder on the Type 2 W600 Wagner that was in the last Heritage Auction, and I got totally blown out of the water (not even close), so my predictions are very fallible!

[swarmee]

My guess is that neither hits the reserve, presuming the reserve bid is 80% of the purchase price.

[oldjudge]

I'll take under $1 million for the Cobb/Cobb. I think you guys are delusional.

[rats60]

I'll take under $1 million for the Cobb/Cobb. I think you guys are delusional.

It has already sold for more than $1 million once.

[CuriousGeorge]

It has already sold for more than $1 million once.

It purported to have sold over a million. Just like the Wagner was “recently sold for $1.2M” after which it was disclosed it was sold months ago. I don’t believe either price is real. And no shot Cobb back 4.5 approaches $1M, Wagner probably low 1s.

[Marckus99]

Garbage card, garbage set.

Give me a Voskamps or a Gilmartin.

[Tabe]

It purported to have sold over a million. Just like the Wagner was “recently sold for $1.2M” after which it was disclosed it was sold months ago. I don’t believe either price is real. And no shot Cobb back 4.5 approaches $1M, Wagner probably low 1s.
Yeah, I'm with you. Very skeptical the Cobb hits $1m this time. And definitely think Wagner goes for more.

[Tabe]

Am I the only one that thinks the card looks different from one holder to the next? Pretty obviously the same card, and could just be Photoshop but the card in the original PSA 2 holder looks much dirtier, among other things.

[swarmee]

Is anyone else out there hoping that the winner of this card comes from New York or California, buys the card, and has it shipped to "The Vault" instead of paying state sales taxes? I think that would be fun.

[CuriousGeorge]

I suspect Brent will be hiding out in the Vault very shorty.

[swarmee]

The cards were consigned to the auction, we did not purchase the two cards.

Paging Mr. Drent. Can you cancel all of your Moser submissions in this auction?

[conor912]

$1.2M seems pretty ho hum to me in an age of Tom Brady and Mike Trout cards going for $400k. It would be interesting to see Wagner prices charted with other 6+ figure cards as well as inflation. I feel like $1M buys so laughably little now compared to even 20 years ago. This Wagner sale seems like one of the best values in the hobby right now.

[A2000]

I'm looking forward to seeing what these assets will sell for :D

[BeanTown]

Interesting that someone would pay over 50% above the last sale and then immediately consign it to an auction where a 20% buyers premium is tacked on and expect to make money. With all due respect to a Brian, it also seems strange that if one was taking such a big risk that they would not consign the card to either Heritage or REA where the catalogs would reach the most potential bidders..

I'm 99 percent sure the consignor will recieve a rebate back on the buyers premium. For a high dollar card like this, 12-15 percent would be my guess. Plus, a reserve around 850-1m wouodn't be to shocking to see. Do, you really think the card was bought for 1.2m? I say no.

If the card sells, the chance the new owner even knows about this board or any board is slim because its a social statis card and appeals to other people with deep pockets who we wouodn't classify as a collector.