1936 R313/R314 Fine Pen/Wide Pen confusion?

[scottzoe]

Hi all,
I'm trying to determine if there is a 1936 R313 Fine Pen version of the Ben Chapman/Bill Werber card. According to Beckett there is one. The Standard
Catalog, Trading Card DB and Old Cardboard checklists don't show one. I tend to believe The Standard Catalog over Beckett, but browsing the Burdick collection at the Met they have one listed. https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/705655

Is the one in the Met collection really a fine pen or the borderless wide pen version?

Thanks in advance for any help,

Scott

[timn1]

in R313.

the Chapman/Werber pose appears in the main R314 set, and also in two others smaller R314 sets: the borderless set of 24, and the set that has borders but is otherwise identical to the borderless one.

The Met image is from this last one, the bordered/borderless one, which is quite difficult to find.

Tim

[BuckiGuy]

So, are the borderless what SGC considers “type 3”? And how do you identify the bordered r314 of 24 vs the main r314 set? Or, did you mean they are literally smaller?

[MikeGarcia]

http://imagehost.vendio.com/a/2042957/view/1936CRAMER_NEW.JPG

..cards are all the same size ; same picture was used in the different types. Adding a thin border to the borderless 24 made for some unusual cropping.

..

[MikeGarcia]

http://imagehost.vendio.com/a/2042957/view/1900FOXX_NEW_001.JPG

..the regular set have that little "Litho In USA" down in the right corner.

..

[MikeGarcia]

http://imagehost.vendio.com/a/2042957/view/001936TYPETWO_NEW.JPG

psssst......Paying "strong" for upgrades , he added , unethically .

..

[scottzoe]

Wow, thanks for the scans and all the great info. I appreciate it!

Scott

[MikeGarcia]

http://imagehost.vendio.com/a/2042957/view/WIDEPENSTYPES23_NEW.JPG

..this is how PSA does the flips...

..

[SMPEP]

So taking off on the original question ... the checklist for these sets (wide pens, fine pens, related sets) seem all over the place depending on which source you look at.

For example I have heard there Nutticomb, Shag Shaunessy and Webb Wide Pen Type 1 versions - but I assume this is just someone who made a mistake with another type.

Is there a source that is really an accurate checklist? (all of them seem slightly wrong from what I've seen. The chapman/werber shown for example shows several of those lists aren't complete).

Cheers,
Patrick

[Leon]

It seems no one is really keeping up with updating vintage lists in the hobby, in an official type manner, like SCD Krause did when Lemke was there.

So taking off on the original question ... the checklist for these sets (wide pens, fine pens, related sets) seem all over the place depending on which source you look at.

For example I have heard there Nutticomb, Shag Shaunessy and Webb Wide Pen Type 1 versions - but I assume this is just someone who made a mistake with another type.

Is there a source that is really an accurate checklist? (all of them seem slightly wrong from what I've seen. The chapman/werber shown for example shows several of those lists aren't complete).

Cheers,
Patrick

[timn1]

My two-part article in Old Cardboard Issues 6 and 7 is the most complete examination of these sets, and the most complete checklist. Back issues are available from the Old Cardboard website.

Nutticomb is a complete phantom - supposedly stuck in there by an early checklister to check whether other sources were lifting his checklist. There has never been a major/minor leaguer with that name.

There is no Webb in any of these sets. Shaughnessy is in the Canadian set (R314-type 5) only.

Tim

[lhardem]

Tim, thanks for the reminder.

To all vintage collectors:
We are continually expanding and refining our checklists on the Old Cardboard website and, with input from our readers and Net54 members, are committed to continue to do so.

Thanks to all who have contributed in the past.

Lyman