View Full Version : Pinholes vs. indentations
Throttlesteer
05-15-2019, 05:02 PM
Rather than call out the specific card for sale, I will say there's a PSA 4 VgEx that I'm interested in, but appears to have a pinhole on the top right corner. From the front, it looks 100% like a pinhole, but the back shows more of an indentation that may not go all the way through the card.
Outside of the advice of buying the card, not the holder.....is there really THAT much of a difference in grade simply because it pierced the last layer of cardboard to go through altogether? It could be argued that it's similar to paper loss, albeit pin point sized.
conor912
05-15-2019, 05:18 PM
Rather than call out the specific card for sale, I will say there's a PSA 4 VgEx that I'm interested in, but appears to have a pinhole on the top right corner. From the front, it looks 100% like a pinhole, but the back shows more of an indentation that may not go all the way through the card.
Outside of the advice of buying the card, not the holder.....is there really THAT much of a difference in grade simply because it pierced the last layer of cardboard to go through altogether? It could be argued that it's similar to paper loss, albeit pin point sized.
To give a better understanding, I would look at the established hobby definitions of "wear" vs "abuse". A heavy indentation would probably fall in the former, while shoving a needle clear through, the latter. I agree, in the case you are describing, it sounds like a thin line, but the line has to be drawn somewhere. It's also possible that it WAS a pinhole and someone used a drop of water on the back to re-soften and swell the paper fibers to close the hole.
A pinhole is worse than an indention to me. It sounds plausible one could be closed back up too though I have never tried it. I generally steer clear of pinholes but don't mind an indention AS LONG as I know about it up front. I hate surprise condition issues.
To give a better understanding, I would look at the established hobby definitions of "wear" vs "abuse". A heavy indentation would probably fall in the former, while shoving a needle clear through, the latter. I agree, in the case you are describing, it sounds like a thin line, but the line has to be drawn somewhere. It's also possible that it WAS a pinhole and someone used a drop of water on the back to re-soften and swell the paper fibers to close the hole.
conor912
05-16-2019, 07:44 AM
If PSA gave it a 4 then they clearly don't think it's a pinhole, which gets a card an automatic 1 in their system.
That's if they got it right. Big if.
pete zouras
05-16-2019, 08:07 AM
Which I later found out had 2 pinholes, one obvious and one on the border. I can live with pinholes with cards as clean as this.
My Johnson has a small hole in it. :D
My Johnson has a small hole in it. :D Could be gallstones?
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chalupacollects
05-16-2019, 09:16 AM
My Johnson has a small hole in it. :D
Could slow the flow a bit...:D
Throttlesteer
05-16-2019, 09:36 AM
Here's the card I'm talking about. You be the judge
https://i.imgur.com/St0AWYF.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/Qzjovyd.jpg
brianp-beme
05-16-2019, 10:11 AM
In my little collecting world, a pinhole in a card means you have the opportunity to see through the card, something that a card without a pinhole cannot provide.
Brian
conor912
05-16-2019, 02:44 PM
Here's the card I'm talking about. You be the judge
https://i.imgur.com/St0AWYF.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/Qzjovyd.jpg
Hard to tell w/o it in hand, but it looks like a pinhole that was worked on to me. Either way, I'm really surprised that got a 4. I could see them splitting the difference at a 2, but a 4 is pushing it, IMO.
soxinseven
05-16-2019, 02:51 PM
I had a Carolina Brights backed card with a pinhole at the top where the back appeared sealed in like that. SGC graded it a 1 and someone has since crossed it to PSA which graded it a 1 also. They likely missed it on this one but shouldn't have. The number on the flip could make it hard to buy it at what the true value should be, good luck.
+1....
Hard to tell w/o it in hand, but it looks like a pinhole that was worked on to me. Either way, I'm really surprised that got a 4. I could see them splitting the difference at a 2, but a 4 is pushing it, IMO.
Kenny Cole
05-18-2019, 12:44 PM
An indentation can probably be "conserved." Not sure about a pinhole.
conor912
05-18-2019, 12:53 PM
There is also a difference between pin holes and tack holes. I've seen some pinholes so tiny they are almost impossible to detect, then there are tack holes when you can virtutally see through it like a peep hole. While generally not a fan of holes of any kind, a small pin hole doesn't bother me all that much on some of my T3 commons if they are inconspicuous. I have one with a big tack hole where someone at some point unapologetically filled the hole with wood putty. It reminded me of something my grandfather would have done, so I got it. 🙂
An indentation can probably be "conserved." Not sure about a pinhole.
I would hope not but my guess is yes on both accounts (indentations and pinholes) to being conserved/restored . Both push the boundary too far for me.