Grading thoughts on this Ryan?

[jchcollins]

I posted this earlier in May pickups, and since this is the most notable raw card I’ve bought in some time - was wondering what you all would opine as to condition?

To me this is a straight 5: A slightly fuzzy lower left corner, the rest pretty nice maybe 6’s and one of 7 quality. Great centering, no creases or wrinkles, clean back. I’ve seen other PSA 5’s with worse corners than this, but it can be a tough grade to predict since sometimes 5’s are seen on cards that would be otherwise 7’s but don’t meet the centering criteria. Either way a nice card and I’m keeping it - but I get into these quandaries with trusting my own judgment on raw grading and sometimes just like other opinions... Thanks.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190513/2038dfcfc3aa594e172fd59dd25fe3b6.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190513/f1c7c912d40ac1c3db2c077b30f3274b.jpg


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[Fuddjcal]

I posted this earlier in May pickups, and since this is the most notable raw card I’ve bought in some time - was wondering what you all would opine as to condition?

To me this is a straight 5: A slightly fuzzy lower left corner, the rest pretty nice maybe 6’s and one of 7 quality. Great centering, no creases or wrinkles, clean back. I’ve seen other PSA 5’s with worse corners than this, but it can be a tough grade to predict since sometimes 5’s are seen on cards that would be otherwise 7’s but don’t meet the centering criteria. Either way a nice card and I’m keeping it - but I get into these quandaries with trusting my own judgement on raw grading and sometimes just like other opinions... Thanks.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190513/2038dfcfc3aa594e172fd59dd25fe3b6.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190513/f1c7c912d40ac1c3db2c077b30f3274b.jpg


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I'd like it in my collection too, that's for sure. Maybe even a 5.5, IMHO

[jchcollins]

I'd like it in my collection too, that's for sure. Maybe even a 5.5, IMHO

Thanks. Yes I think it would be a candidate for a 5.5 based on the centering, assuming it's a 5. That's supposedly what the half-point bump is used for most often, but then again I've also seen noticeably o/c cards with .5's.

[hcv123]

Centering is super tough on an otherwise plentiful card. Yours has incredible centering! Awesome pickup! PSA has become so inconsistent with their grading, I stopped trying to guess the grade! No matter what PSA has to say - it's a great card!

[rgpete]

Its just an opinion by the grading company, maybe you might get lucky that the one who grades the card will be wearing beer goggles that day. Nice Card good luck

[irv]

Its just an opinion by the grading company, maybe you might get lucky that the one who grades the card will be wearing beer goggles that day. Nice Card good luck

Couldn't agree more! When I joined the site and got back into collecting, I asked a lot of questions about the grades of my cards in an effort to learn.

After asking far too many times, I was rudely told by a member here to do my own homework so that is what I set out to do. (He was right, btw)

After looking at listing after listing here, on ebay and various A/H's, etc, I thought I had a pretty good handle on things, but after slowing down in my research I started noticing things a little more differently.

It was during that time that I starting seeing things more clearly, more carefully and realized what I thought I had learned was all for not.

Way too many PSA cards exist out there that make no sense or go against what I had concluded. Some were way over graded and some under.

After doing all that research I concluded there is no way I could send my cards in knowing my better ones could come back anywhere between 2's and 5's.
With the money involved, (the exchange rate, the shipping, etc) I decided against it.

Take for example the current PSA 5 Mantle. According to their own grading guidelines, there is no way that card should have received a 5.
I know it was previously graded many years ago (but so is theirs in the pics below) so when you throw those cards into the mix you realize you're at the mercy of the grader that particular day. https://www.psacard.com/resources/gradingstandards#cards

Personally, after doing all that research I concluded that SGC is, by far, way more consistent with their grading. They are not perfect but will be definitely be my grader of choice if and when that day ever comes when I decide to get some of my cards graded. Just my 2 cents. :)

[JollyElm]

Not sure about a grade, but man that is nicely centered. Well done!!!

[Jayjones82]

Agree on the grade: 5.5 or 6. Man, that's a nicely centered one. I'm a little jealous.

[chalupacollects]

I think it pulls a six.. so many of this card off center... Corners still good, back is centered and only one tiny fisheye on the front... I say send it in!

[vintagetoppsguy]

Top border looks wavy to me between the words Rookie and Stars. It could be the angle at which the pic was taken, but that's what I see. If it is wavy, I don't think it's trimmed, I think it's just a wavy factory cut.

[jchcollins]

After asking far too many times, I was rudely told by a member here to do my own homework so that is what I set out to do. (He was right, btw)

After looking at listing after listing here, on ebay and various A/H's, etc, I thought I had a pretty good handle on things, but after slowing down in my research I started noticing things a little more differently.

It was during that time that I starting seeing things more clearly, more carefully and realized what I thought I had learned was all for not.



I learned how to grade 25-30 years ago. I know what the standards were then, and what I would judge this card to be based on how I learned to grade and then how my opinions evolved with experience since that time. I’m not asking because I don’t know. I was asking because I was curious to see how other’s opinions and understandings of the same lined-up. Grading is almost a sub-hobby of mine. I just think it’s interesting to see how it’s evolved, and the discrepancies that can still exist today. One man’s 4 corners are sometimes another man’s 6. There is a subjective element to it which will likely never go away completely.


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[jchcollins]

Top border looks wavy to me between the words Rookie and Stars. It could be the angle at which the pic was taken, but that's what I see. If it is wavy, I don't think it's trimmed, I think it's just a wavy factory cut.


I think it’s the angle and some glare, and then the fact that when you look at the card closely, one of the kind of white areas / lines that sort of skews through the burlap pattern does a little dovetail right there near the border. It’s hard to see, but doesn’t appear wavy in-hand. I have the card in a toploader and not a mag now, and that border looks straight.


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[megalimey]

GET IT GRADED WITH PSA , except what they give you good, bad or ugly
what ever the slabbing fees cost it will be recouped if you decide to sell.
But condition grade is not as important as is it genuine ?,
the 1968 Ryan Rookie card , is in the top top Fake Cards out there
your's looks like the real deal , but laymen , skeptical or junior collectors with deeper pockets , need the safety blanket of seeing it in a PSA Holder , or SGC if they have want some thing cheaper in the same COMPARISON grade.
its a $100 gamble and 4 week wait ,

worse case if you do not like the grade , crack it out ,

[Exhibitman]

I'd trim it a bit to even the sides then send it to PSA. Odds are they will miss it... :)

[jchcollins]

I'd trim it a bit to even the sides then send it to PSA. Odds are they will miss it... :)


No kidding...


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[jchcollins]

I think it pulls a six.. so many of this card off center... Corners still good, back is centered and only one tiny fisheye on the front... I say send it in!

I will buy graded online if I cannot physically inspect a card first, but this is an LCS pickup. No plans to send it in - I looked it over very carefully before I bought it and was satisfied with authenticity, and my own evaluation of the condition. I would be curious to see what SGC would give it, I will admit - but as a historically impatient collector, the thought of dropping it in the mail even with a quick service and paying maybe $100 to get it graded is just sour for me. I'd rather have the card I can look at every day. :)

[Promethius88]

I agree that the top looks wavy....but could be the pic. I had one that looked almost exactly like that card a few years back and had to sell it raw. Sent it in twice. First time came back evidence of trimming(??) then the second time it was not slabbed as it was deemed miscut. It was a tad oversized. After I got it back the second time, I gently stood the card on the top edge, on a flat surface. It was then very easy to see that it was miscut. Regardless, it is a beautiful card and I hope you can get it in a slab. Good luck!

[JTysver]

Looks like a 5.5

[jchcollins]

Thanks again all. I don't plan to slab it. At least EX seems to be the consensus, which suits me just fine. It is a pretty card.

[Yastrzemski Sports]

My biggest concern would be the lower left corner. It looks slightly rounded and definitely white. Top left corner has an issue also. But all around very nice.

[jchcollins]

My biggest concern would be the lower left corner. It looks slightly rounded and definitely white. Top left corner has an issue also. But all around very nice.

Yeah the lower left is definitely the detractor. It's dinged, but I've seen 5's in both PSA and SGC slabs where 2 or more corners were dinged like that. To me this is why 5 is a subjective grade, because the consensus even among TPG's is that the corners can be "worn" or "starting to round" but are still more or less square looking to the naked eye. Lot of room left for subjectivity in all that...

[jchcollins]

Update on the "waviness" issue to the top, I think I figured it out:

Just to be sure again, I took the card out and measured it. A perfect 2.5 by 3.5 all the way around. Then I looked at it vertical. The card was printed with an ever-so-slight tilt - which due to the horizontal orientation is not really noticeable at first glance. But if you hold it vertically for awhile, you can see that the Koosman side is just barely higher than the Ryan side, and that on the right border, there is a slight amount of tilt which results in a thinner top border and thicker bottom. I think this explains the wave appearance if you look close at the top right where it doesn't appear to be perfectly even. The left side on the top is going to be slightly thinner than the right.

I'm satisfied. And still think at least an EX card - I have seen other issues with way worse tilt prevalent throughout ('73 Topps is a good example...) that still grade in that range. Tilt alone can be controversial, because it is sometimes seen even on PSA 10's. Checkout the Kendrick '52 Mantle...