PWCC first 1 sticker, then 2, now 3 different?

[swarmee]

https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1018808/new-pwcc-stickers
So if you had a PQ or a HE do you have to send it back to them for a new sticker?

https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/eye-appeal

Surprised there's no discussion here about it.

[buymycards]

Most of my cards have this sticker:

[Peter_Spaeth]

Oy. And to continue in Yiddish, genug ist genug.

And now in English. Too many gimmicks. With due respect, who made PWCC the arbiter of eye appeal? Put up a large, quality scan -- which they do -- and let people judge. But people must care, and they're laughing all the way to the bank.

[Republicaninmass]

DSA

Definately
Shilled
Auction

[robkas68]

The 4th sticker has to be PWCC-WTF....Like how the hell did that get an 8 when it seems like all 4 borders are a little small and the card looks a lot like that psa 4 that sold last year.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Who here cares what PWCC says about a card in the form of a sticker? Come forward and confess.:)

[oldjudge]

A guy I know is selling a PSA 10 WNBA rookie card through PWCC. If they can do well with that then I will start to believe that they are truely miracle workers.

[iowadoc77]

Who here cares what PWCC says about a card in the form of a sticker? Come forward and confess.:)

Doesn’t matter one bit how we feel. Watch the bidding. It will tell how people feel.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Doesn’t matter one bit how we feel. Watch the bidding. It will tell how people feel.

Who are these sheep?:eek:

[ullmandds]

Who are these sheep?:eek:

the "investors" silly!!!!

[pokerplyr80]

Who here cares what PWCC says about a card in the form of a sticker? Come forward and confess.:)

I sure do if it's my consignment.

[Peter_Spaeth]

the "investors" silly!!!!

Pete, I guess. So we now need opinions (of folks who disclaim that they are graders) superimposed on grades. I loathe the circus we seem to have now. Of course this isn't as bad as the trimmed card circus mentioned in other threads, but it's bad enough.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Kid, you gotta get a gimmick
If you wanna get ahead

[Republicaninmass]

PWCC the lunch box

PWCC the breakfast cereal

PWCC the flame thrower


The real money is in merchandising

[iowadoc77]

Next time they will be seeking a higher percentage of hammer price for those designated by stickers. An even more tiered consignment pricing system.

[iowadoc77]

PWCC the lunch box

PWCC the breakfast cereal

PWCC the flame thrower


The real money is in merchandising

I don’t care who you are. That’s funny! Gotta love a good Spaceballs reference. Well done.

[ullmandds]

I don’t care who you are. That’s funny! Gotta love a good Spaceballs reference. Well done.

i really need to see "this spaceballs!"

[Throttlesteer]

This thread gets a Net54 - A. for asinine

[iowadoc77]

i really need to see "this spaceballs!"

You haven’t seen Spaceballs? Only one of the all time classics.

[ullmandds]

You haven’t seen Spaceballs? Only one of the all time classics.

So i’ve heard!

[egbeachley]

I read a few posts. My favorite was......

“These stickers are getting ridiculous. They need to stick with HE and PQ”

[Republicaninmass]

I read a few posts. My favorite was......

“These stickers are getting ridiculous. They need to stick with HE and PQ”


Nobody uses stickers anymore, there's too many on the slab already

[vintagetoppsguy]

Who here cares what PWCC says about a card in the form of a sticker? Come forward and confess.:)

There are many, many collectors that NEED someone else's opinion on their card in order to make them feel all warm and fuzzy about their purchase. Isn't that what grading is all about?

Personally, I don't care what PSA, SGC, PSA/DNA, JSA, BVG, BAS, PWCC, blah, blah, blah, has to say about any item I own. I have more personal experience than ANY of them.

Don't get me wrong, Peter, I actually agree with what you're saying. However, I just don't see how you can bemoan collectors that pay more money for a PWCC sticker, but don't have the same sentiment for someone willing to pay more money for some other TPG sticker or flip?

Both (PWCC or any TPG) are selling an opinion. I don't see a difference.

[Peter_Spaeth]

David I guess the difference for me is that, for better or worse, TPG has become an industry standard and with all its flaws does make it easier and at least somewhat safer to buy in the internet age. For a clearly interested seller to be adding its own stickers, though, strikes me as a complete gimmick but obviously for whatever reason people are obviously willing to pay for it. It seems there are people out there who will just follow wherever PWCC leads them. Some of the stickered cards sell for crazy premiums and I suspect at least part of that price goes beyond the merit of the cards and the fact of the sticker is responsible.

BTW as has been pointed out, the potential for preferential treatment is pretty obvious.

I do understand your point, but in my mind this is far more pointless than TPG.

[D. Bergin]

Stickers! Stickers! I hate stickers! Even with strawberries.

[vintagebaseballcardguy]

Are the newest stickers at least scratch and sniff? :p

[Touch'EmAll]

I was recently the high bid on a PWCC card. Couldn't believe it as all my other PWCC bids always get blown out of the water. The card I won has absolutely perfect centering (to my eye anyway), no tilt cut, no print dots/blips, nice sharp corners, clean back. However, no sticker of any kind - must be the reason my reasonable bid was high. Haha. What a gimmick.

steve

[vintagetoppsguy]

David I guess the difference for me is that, for better or worse, TPG has become an industry standard and with all its flaws does make it easier and at least somewhat safer to buy in the internet age. For a clearly interested seller to be adding its own stickers, though, strikes me as a complete gimmick but obviously for whatever reason people are obviously willing to pay for it. It seems there are people out there who will just follow wherever PWCC leads them. Some of the stickered cards sell for crazy premiums and I suspect at least part of that price goes beyond the merit of the cards and the fact of the sticker is responsible.

BTW as has been pointed out, the potential for preferential treatment is pretty obvious.

I do understand your point, but in my mind this is far more pointless than TPG.

I agree. It's a gimmick, but their buyers have bought into the gimmick. PWCC is the sheepherder and they have a lot of blind sheep that follow them. The sticker is just another way to increase their profit, but can you really blame them? If they have buyers willing to pay extra for that silly sticker, all power to them.

In my opinion though PWCC is really missing the boat on gimmicks. They should start their OWN grading company if they really want to maximize sales. Can you imagine how much market share they could take away from the other TPGs? Then they could even use their stickers on the really high end cards and make even more $ :D

[darwinbulldog]

Shouldn't the PWCC-A sticker be on, y'know, 30% of the cards in their auction? Did they run out of stickers?

[ALR-bishop]

This thread gets a Net54 - A. for asinine

Do you give stickers with your reviews ?

[Peter_Spaeth]

The increase in profit probably comes equally from inducing people to consign to them in the hopes of getting one of those stickers. Why sell a card yourself when PWCC can magically churn so much extra value out of it. I agree, David, it's good marketing, it just offends me because the whole premise is so stupid.

[darwinbulldog]

It's a slippery slope. Soon they'll be telling us to buy the card not the holder.

[steve B]

Who here cares what PWCC says about a card in the form of a sticker? Come forward and confess.:)


All I'll confess to is complete and utter indifference. :D


I assume there's a legal term for that, but I don't know it.

I'm not good with languages, but could rephrase that in a few Boston area dialects if I didn't know kids read this. (Always helps to know if you're just being made sport of or if it's time to run. )

[ullmandds]

The increase in profit probably comes equally from inducing people to consign to them in the hopes of getting one of those stickers. Why sell a card yourself when PWCC can magically churn so much extra value out of it. I agree, David, it's good marketing, it just offends me because the whole premise is so stupid.

So as most auction houses are doing these days...buying their own cards and putting in their own auctions...does this become an issue or is it already...when they are "stickering" their own submissions to increase their bottom line...and is their criteria for "Stickering" their own submissions less strict than their "Stickering" of others submissions?????

I'm in sticker shock!

[bobbyw8469]

I agree. It's a gimmick, but their buyers have bought into the gimmick. PWCC is the sheepherder and they have a lot of blind sheep that follow them. The sticker is just another way to increase their profit, but can you really blame them? If they have buyers willing to pay extra for that silly sticker, all power to them.

In my opinion though PWCC is really missing the boat on gimmicks. They should start their OWN grading company if they really want to maximize sales. Can you imagine how much market share they could take away from the other TPGs? Then they could even use their stickers on the really high end cards and make even more $ :D

Agreed David....and if they REALLY wanted to maximize profits...GET OFF OF EBAY!!! Bruce Herishon(sp?) did it with his movie posters. Have their own website with their own auction platform built into it. They have a big enough following, do they REALLY need Ebay??

[Peter_Spaeth]

All I'll confess to is complete and utter indifference. :D


I assume there's a legal term for that, but I don't know it.

I'm not good with languages, but could rephrase that in a few Boston area dialects if I didn't know kids read this. (Always helps to know if you're just being made sport of or if it's time to run. )

I think the legal term at least in Boston would be wicked stupid.

[ValKehl]

Agreed David....and if they REALLY wanted to maximize profits...GET OFF OF EBAY!!! Bruce Herishon(sp?) did it with his movie posters. Have their own website with their own auction platform built into it. They have a big enough following, do they REALLY need Ebay??

I'd be surprised if PWCC doesn't already have plans to do this in the not too distant future.

[Throttlesteer]

This is their way to be a TPG without being a TPG. If the started stabbing, it would look even more like a conflict of interest

[pokerplyr80]

The increase in profit probably comes equally from inducing people to consign to them in the hopes of getting one of those stickers. Why sell a card yourself when PWCC can magically churn so much extra value out of it. I agree, David, it's good marketing, it just offends me because the whole premise is so stupid.

The premise makes sense to me. Whatever your opinion of Brent and PWCC, he sells 1000s of cards a month, including many high end examples. Him saying a particular card is among the top 5 or 15% in terms of eye appeal for that card at that grade means something. Clearly many buyers agree. And if I know my card has eye appear that exceeds the grade why wouldn't I send it there if I assume it will get a sticker? It will net more after fees than I could sell it for on my own.

[Republicaninmass]

:cool:Agreed David....and if they REALLY wanted to maximize profits...GET OFF OF EBAY!!! Bruce Herishon(sp?) did it with his movie posters. Have their own website with their own auction platform built into it. They have a big enough following, do they REALLY need Ebay??

Yes they do need Ebay. Inexperienced buyers and consignors are their target audience.

[Touch'EmAll]

Y'know, over the years of seeing a lot of slabbed cards, I agree not all cards within a single grade are created equal. Most fall within acceptable norm, some are honestly high end for the grade, but also...some are honestly low end for the grade - when do we get the stickers for those ?

[Peter_Spaeth]

The premise makes sense to me. Whatever your opinion of Brent and PWCC, he sells 1000s of cards a month, including many high end examples. Him saying a particular card is among the top 5 or 15% in terms of eye appeal for that card at that grade means something. Clearly many buyers agree. And if I know my card has eye appear that exceeds the grade why wouldn't I send it there if I assume it will get a sticker? It will net more after fees than I could sell it for on my own.

With due respect to Brent, I can judge eye appeal for myself, thank you. And I bet you can too. It's utterly meaningless.

[swarmee]

Remember they pay a very small fee compared to the rest of ebayers. Taking them off the medium would be a huge negative as far in concerned. However, it *might* make it easier for them to vet bidders and reduce shilling, if they were so inclined.

[itslarry]

With due respect to Brent, I can judge eye appeal for myself, thank you. And I bet you can too. It's utterly meaningless.

Just like all TPA's!
Foolish people trusting psa makes me laugh.
At least pwcc wasnt founded on one of, if not the, biggwst scams in card history.

[chalupacollects]

What I don't understand is that they disclaim on each auction not to be professional graders but with all these goofy stickers that is exactly what they are doing... Can't see why people don't understand the conflicting info???

[vintagetoppsguy]

What I don't understand is that they disclaim on each auction not to be professional graders but with all these goofy stickers that is exactly what they are doing... Can't see why people don't understand the conflicting info???

I don't see the conflict. One doesn't need to be a "professional grader" to see that a card has great eye appeal given its technical grade.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I don't see the conflict. One doesn't need to be a "professional grader" to see that a card has great eye appeal given its technical grade.

Right, and the logical extension of that is one doesn't need PWCC to see that for them either.

[Leon]

Right, and the logical extension of that is one doesn't need PWCC to see that for them either.

Who cares? This is like crying over spilled milk. If it gets a consignor more money, and there is full transparency, then good for PWCC. A LOT of our members use them and seem happy. I spoke with Brent quite a bit at the Texas Card Show and they have some neat stuff going on, besides the stickers. Time will tell.

.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Who cares? This is like crying over spilled milk. If it gets a consignor more money, and there is full transparency, then good for PWCC. A LOT of our members use them and seem happy. I spoke with Brent quite a bit at the Texas Card Show and they have some neat stuff going on, besides the stickers. Time will tell.

.

I suppose I care one because it likely drives up prices and two because stupid gimmicks just offend me. I agree that it's good marketing, my issue is more with the people who put value on these stickers.

[58pinson]

If it gets a consignor more money, and there is full transparency, then good for PWCC.

.

As a first time consignor to the PWCC auction that is currently starting I couldn't agree more. After trying to move cards at the White Plains show and seeing what PWCC was getting for the same cards I was blown out of the water. I am hoping to more than double my return. If they decide to sticker any of my cards I'm not going to complain.

[bobbyw8469]

After trying to move cards at the White Plains show and seeing what PWCC was getting for the same cards I was blown out of the water.

This is the part that kind of blows me away. PWCC does NOT have the monopoly on being a great seller. There are a TON of great sellers out there. I consider myself a great seller. That being said, like you stated, I am amazed they they get such a premium for their 1968 Roberto Clemente PSA 4 (to pick a random card). They bring even higher prices than the BIN's out there!

[vintagetoppsguy]

I suppose I care one because it likely drives up prices and two because stupid gimmicks just offend me. I agree that it's good marketing, my issue is more with the people who put value on these stickers.

But you're trying to rationalize it. You can't. I'm the same way with grading. For the life of me, I don't understand why someone cares about what someone else thinks about their card. It blows my mind. What makes someone submit a card to be graded? Are they really that ignorant of hobby standards that they can't look at a card and judge the condition for themselves that they need a 3rd party to do it for them? Do these same people seek advice about other things too? Do these same people need reassurance to tell them how pretty their wife is? How fine their home is? How nice their car is? If not, then why do they need someone to tell them the condition of their card? There's absolutely no difference in a buyer putting value in a PWCC sticker than there is some collector putting value in what some TPG says. Again, I'm with you, Peter. It doesn't make sense to me either. But rather than trying to make sense of it, I just go with it. Who am I to tell someone else what to collect, how to collect or what to spend?

[ullmandds]

This is the part that kind of blows me away. PWCC does NOT have the monopoly on being a great seller. There are a TON of great sellers out there. I consider myself a great seller. That being said, like you stated, I am amazed they they get such a premium for their 1968 Roberto Clemente PSA 4 (to pick a random card). They bring even higher prices than the BIN's out there!

What constitutes what makes one "a great seller" these days...is it high ethical/moral standards? If so I'd consider myself a great seller...albeit a tiny, insignificant one at that.

More and more I think it's the offering of high quality material. And PWCC definitely consistently offers that! They offer big auction house quality items routinely...and that seems to trump everything these days.

And to address Davids' comments...this is the world we are living in now...social media...many people want/desire constant attention!

[Dpeck100]

But you're trying to rationalize it. You can't. I'm the same way with grading. For the life of me, I don't understand why someone cares about what someone else thinks about their card. It blows my mind. What makes someone submit a card to be graded? Are they really that ignorant of hobby standards that they can't look at a card and judge the condition for themselves that they need a 3rd party to do it for them? Do these same people seek advice about other things too? Do these same people need reassurance to tell them how pretty their wife is? How fine their home is? How nice their car is? If not, then why do they need someone to tell them the condition of their card? There's absolutely no difference in a buyer putting value in a PWCC sticker than there is some collector putting value in what some TPG says. Again, I'm with you, Peter. It doesn't make sense to me either. But rather than trying to make sense of it, I just go with it. Who am I to tell someone else what to collect, how to collect or what to spend?



Have you not seen the price differential between a 1986 Fleer Michael Jordan in a PSA 8, PSA 9 and PSA 10?

Seems like it would be pretty easy to understand why people spend the money to get a card graded. This isn't rocket science.

[calvindog]

But you're trying to rationalize it. You can't. I'm the same way with grading. For the life of me, I don't understand why someone cares about what someone else thinks about their card. It blows my mind. What makes someone submit a card to be graded? Are they really that ignorant of hobby standards that they can't look at a card and judge the condition for themselves that they need a 3rd party to do it for them? Do these same people seek advice about other things too? Do these same people need reassurance to tell them how pretty their wife is? How fine their home is? How nice their car is? If not, then why do they need someone to tell them the condition of their card? There's absolutely no difference in a buyer putting value in a PWCC sticker than there is some collector putting value in what some TPG says. Again, I'm with you, Peter. It doesn't make sense to me either. But rather than trying to make sense of it, I just go with it. Who am I to tell someone else what to collect, how to collect or what to spend?

I'm not sure but I suspect people send cards in for grading because the grading of the card increases the value exponentially. I don't believe submitters need reassurance, I think they need the card in a slab to maximize its resale value.

[vintagetoppsguy]

I'm not sure but I suspect people send cards in for grading because the grading of the card increases the value exponentially.

Fine, but can't the same thing be said about the silly PWCC sticker? So why the pointless thread?

[Dpeck100]

I'm not sure but I suspect people send cards in for grading because the grading of the card increases the value exponentially. I don't believe submitters need reassurance, I think they need the card in a slab to maximize its resale value.

I like many have taken a card I paid $2 for and invested $6 more and made it a $650 card.

If someone passed the first grade and can count it is pretty easy to figure out.

[Leon]

I have sent many cards in and then received the news they were altered. Alterations which I didn't catch. I remember a 1914 Boston Garter Speaker? that I bought and sent it into SGC. It came back altered; it had a slight touch up to it and I got a full refund. That particular authentication saved me 5 digits, probably. Oh, grading the cards increases their value too.
At the Texas Card Show I gave SGC a few things to grade. As the show went on I made multiple trips back to give them cards to add to the ones already submitted. I didn't do that to lose money. :)

I'm not sure but I suspect people send cards in for grading because the grading of the card increases the value exponentially. I don't believe submitters need reassurance, I think they need the card in a slab to maximize its resale value.

[Dpeck100]

Who cares? This is like crying over spilled milk. If it gets a consignor more money, and there is full transparency, then good for PWCC. A LOT of our members use them and seem happy. I spoke with Brent quite a bit at the Texas Card Show and they have some neat stuff going on, besides the stickers. Time will tell.

.


This situation reminds me when Vince McMahon decided to take the wrestling business in a new direction. He had tons of haters and hurt a lot of feelings but in the end his new ideas made a lot of people a lot of money.

I think it is great that someone is trying to shake things up in the card world.

If you read the comments on Facebook when cards are posted by PSA or Sports Collectors Daily loads of them think all cards are worthless and the hobby is totally dead.

Those that follow it obviously know that isn't true.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Have you not seen the price differential between a 1986 Fleer Michael Jordan in a PSA 8, PSA 9 and PSA 10?

Seems like it would be pretty easy to understand why people spend the money to get a card graded. This isn't rocket science.

Go crack out that same PSA 10 Jordan RC and try to sell it raw. Do you think it would sell for near the price it would as if it were still graded a 10? No way! Same card, nothing changed with the card itself. Now go have the card re-graded, but let's say it comes back a 9 this time. Does it have more value than it did when it was raw? Sure. Does it have the same value it did when it was a 10? No. Once again, same card, nothing's changed. So where is the value? Is it in the card or in the slab/flip? This isn't rocket science.

The only difference is it now has someone else's opinion assigned to it. So did grading the card add value to it, or did it add perceived value to it? If the card changes value based on the flip, then it's only perceived value. There's a difference. As someone in the financial industry, you do understand that, right? This is a hobby where many are building their collections strictly on perceived value. What happens to perceived value over time? I think even a first grader can figure that one out. ;)

I'll build my collection on real value. You build your collection on perceived value. How about that?

[calvindog]

I'll build my collection on real value. You build your collection on perceived value. How about that?

But isn't your raw collection based on your own perceived value of it?

[Dpeck100]

Go crack out that same PSA 10 Jordan RC and try to sell it raw. Do you think it would sell for near the price it would as if it were still graded a 10? No way! Same card, nothing changed with the card itself. Now go have the card re-graded, but let's say it comes back a 9 this time. Does it have more value than it did when it was raw? Sure. Does it have the same value it did when it was a 10? No. Once again, same card, nothing's changed. So where is the value? Is it in the card or in the slab/flip? This isn't rocket science.

The only difference is it now has someone else's opinion assigned to it. So did grading the card add value to it, or did it add perceived value to it? If the card changes value based on the flip, then it's only perceived value. There's a difference. As someone in the financial industry, you do understand that, right? This is a hobby where many are building their collections strictly on perceived value. What happens to perceived value over time? I think even a first grader can figure that one out. ;)

I'll build my collection on real value. You build your collection on perceived value. How about that?


Dude you are out to pasture on this topic. Your disgust for the third party graders has clouded your judgment to a level that can't saved.

It doesn't matter if the card would sell for the same raw after being cracked out. No one is cracking out that card.

You are like the short seller that has been betting against Amazon since it was $200 saying the valuation is unsustainable.

None of us make the rules. The market does and the market has spoken and prices cards based on a grade that is plastered on top of a plastic holder. The Jordan in a PSA 10 has gone from $6,500 in 2009 to in some cases $30,000 today. The Jeter 1993 SP has gone from $6,500 to nearly a $100,000. It is what it is.

Trying to make some philosophical argument as to why people are stupid for wanting someone else to appraise the condition fully knowing that the capital investment can have exponential returns is laughable.

Thanks for the entertainment.

[Dpeck100]

But isn't your raw collection based on your own perceived value of it?


Of course it is.

I have five 1986 Panini Italian Mike Tyson PSA 9's that I self subbed and have less than $150 in each. Today they sell for over a grand. I will take my perceived value all day long vs. the alternative.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Dude you are out to pasture on this topic. Your disgust for the third party graders has clouded your judgment to a level that can't saved.

It doesn't matter if the card would sell for the same raw after being cracked out. No one is cracking out that card.

You are like the short seller that has been betting against Amazon since it was $200 saying the valuation is unsustainable.

None of us make the rules. The market does and the market has spoken and prices cards based on a grade that is plastered on top of a plastic holder. The Jordan in a PSA 10 has gone from $6,500 in 2009 to in some cases $30,000 today. The Jeter 1993 SP has gone from $6,500 to nearly a $100,000. It is what it is.

Trying to make some philosophical argument as to why people are stupid for wanting someone else to appraise the condition fully knowing that the capital investment can have exponential returns is laughable.

Thanks for the entertainment.

You're head is buried so far up PSA's butt that it's putting pressure on your brain and you can't think straight. Not everyone thinks like you. Not everyone cares about graded cards. There are many people on this board that crack out graded cards to enjoy raw in their personal collection. :eek: Yes, its true no matter how much you want to believe it or not. You're just a puppet of the grading industry. Time to cut the strings, dude.

I'll share a PM I received a few days ago. To protect the user's identity, I'll block out their personal information. In the PM, the buyer asked me to crack out a graded card before mailing it to them. I know that's hard for you to wrap your head around, but a lot of people don't care for graded cards.

I can't believe I'm having this conversation with someone who collects wrestling cards that probably doesn't even have 10 years in this hobby but wants to explain it all to me. No, that's entertainment.

[Dpeck100]

You're head is buried so far up PSA's butt that it's putting pressure on your brain and you can't think straight. Not everyone thinks like you. Not everyone cares about graded cards. There are many people on this board that crack out graded cards to enjoy raw in their personal collection. :eek: Yes, its true no matter how much you want to believe it or not. You're just a puppet of the grading industry. Time to cut the strings, dude.

I'll share a PM I received a few days ago. To protect the user's identity, I'll block out their personal information. In the PM, the buyer asked me to crack out a graded card before mailing it to them. I know that's hard for you to wrap your head around, but a lot of people don't care for graded cards.

I can't believe I'm having this conversation with someone who collects wrestling cards that probably doesn't even have 10 years in this hobby but wants to explain it all to me. No, that's entertainment.



Actually I have 35 years in the hobby.

What I collect is irrelevant. My wrestling cards have probably on a percentage basis been the best pick during that ten year time frame you mention of anything. Everyone laughed and here we sit ten years later and the top cards from my sets continue to set record highs.

As for being a puppet. I have been called worse things. Either way the route I have chosen to take has paid off in spades.

You on the other hand call people stupid for attempting to increase the value of their cards and actually doing it. Think about that.

[calvindog]

David, a 1968 Yaz card in a PSA 5 holder doesn't exactly inspire the financial need to keep it in a slab as opposed to a Boston Garter as Leon mentioned. I'm not a fan of PSA but I recognize the value it adds to high end cards (and even some not so high end). At the end of the day I'm a fan of more money compared to less money. Who isn't?

[Peter_Spaeth]

David, a 1968 Yaz card in a PSA 5 holder doesn't exactly inspire the financial need to keep it in a slab as opposed to a Boston Garter as Leon mentioned. I'm not a fan of PSA but I recognize the value it adds to high end cards (and even some not so high end). At the end of the day I'm a fan of more money compared to less money. Who isn't?

The Congresswoman to your north (assuming you are at work), apparently. Oops, political comment.

[calvindog]

This card raw is worth less than this card graded. Whether we like it or not, the PSA holder adds value to my card. And by leaving it in the slab I am protecting its value. It may suck that this is the reality of the hobby but it is what it is. Is it worth cracking out, losing half its value, due to a personal agenda? I'd literally be lighting money on fire if I cracked the card out and left it out.

https://live.staticflickr.com/4896/45574097865_5f4bdb34b6_c.jpg

[calvindog]

The Congresswoman to your north (assuming you are at work), apparently. Oops, political comment.

She's for more money as long as its mine she's taking.

[vintagetoppsguy]

David, a 1968 Yaz card in a PSA 5 holder doesn't exactly inspire the financial need to keep it in a slab as opposed to a Boston Garter as Leon mentioned. I'm not a fan of PSA but I recognize the value it adds to high end cards (and even some not so high end). At the end of the day I'm a fan of more money compared to less money. Who isn't?

Jeff, it wasn't a 1968 Yaz card in a PSA 5 holder, but I'll play along with you. Even if it were, why would one grade a 1968 Yaz in Ex condition? I don't have the answer, but it happens all the time. You say grading adds value, so where is the added value in this?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1968-Topps-Carl-Yastrzemski-250-PSA-5-EX-PWCC/401724056559?hash=item5d889ea3ef:g:DkkAAOSwpvRcgYu 9

Couldn't I buy the same card raw in the same condition for about the same price? I know you just used a random card as an example, but I see this quite often on eBay where someone had a card graded that really didn't add any value at all and, in some cases, it actually decreases the value by having it graded.

Of course I'm a fan of more money. But my point is that it's only perceived value to the collector. If one is buying raw cards to have graded and re-selling them for several times what they paid, then great for them. I really think that's awesome! My comments are really for the collectors (or investors) putting a lot of faith in perceived value.

[vintagetoppsguy]

LOL at Peter's last comment. :D

[vintagetoppsguy]

You on the other hand call people stupid for attempting to increase the value of their cards and actually doing it. Think about that.

Show me where I called anyone stupid? Now you're just making things up...kind of like wrestling is made up. Ooops, I hope I didn't spoil that for you. :rolleyes:

[calvindog]

Jeff, it wasn't a 1968 Yaz card in a PSA 5 holder, but I'll play along with you. Even if it were, why would one grade a 1968 Yaz in Ex condition? I don't have the answer, but it happens all the time. You say grading adds value, so where is the added value in this?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1968-Topps-Carl-Yastrzemski-250-PSA-5-EX-PWCC/401724056559?hash=item5d889ea3ef:g:DkkAAOSwpvRcgYu 9

Couldn't I buy the same card raw in the same condition for about the same price? I know you just used a random card as an example, but I see this quite often on eBay where someone had a card graded that really didn't add any value at all and, in some cases, it actually decreases the value by having it graded.

Of course I'm a fan of more money. But my point is that it's only perceived value to the collector. If one is buying raw cards to have graded and re-selling them for several times what they paid, then great for them. I really think that's awesome! My comments are really for the collectors (or investors) putting a lot of faith in perceived value.

Sometimes people slab cards worth less than the slabbing process just to protect the card or provide uniformity in their collection.

And slabbed cards are a legit market unto itself at this point. My Plow's Cobb above could not be purchased for the same price if it was raw. No chance. Can it go up in value? Sure. Can it go down? Sure. But all things being equal, the card will always be worth more in that PSA slab than out of it. There's no debate here on that issue.

[frankbmd]

Actually I have 35 years in the hobby.

What I collect is irrelevant. My wrestling cards have probably on a percentage basis been the best pick during that ten year time frame you mention of anything. Everyone laughed and here we sit ten years later and the top cards from my sets continue to set record highs.

As for being a puppet. I have been called worse things. Either way the route I have chosen to take has paid off in spades.

You on the other hand call people stupid for attempting to increase the value of their cards and actually doing it. Think about that.

Actually I have 66 years in the hobby.

I had the pleasure of watching "The Great Malenko" live as a teenager in the Tampa Bay area. You probably don't even know who this is?

351623

And you think your credentials are impeckable. :D

[Dpeck100]

Show me where I called anyone stupid? Now you're just making things up...kind of like wrestling is made up. Ooops, I hope I didn't spoil that for you. :rolleyes:


I would classify these comments as calling someone stupid.



But you're trying to rationalize it. You can't. I'm the same way with grading. For the life of me, I don't understand why someone cares about what someone else thinks about their card. It blows my mind. What makes someone submit a card to be graded? Are they really that ignorant of hobby standards that they can't look at a card and judge the condition for themselves that they need a 3rd party to do it for them? Do these same people seek advice about other things too? Do these same people need reassurance to tell them how pretty their wife is? How fine their home is? How nice their car is? If not, then why do they need someone to tell them the condition of their card?

[Dpeck100]

Actually I have 66 years in the hobby.

I had the pleasure of watching "The Great Malenko" live as a teenager in the Tampa Bay area. You probably don't even know who this is?

351623

And you think your credentials are impeckable. :D



Nice to see The Dean Gordon Solie make an appearance!

I am from Orlando and grew up watching Championship Wrestling from Florida.

[vintagetoppsguy]

I would classify these comments as calling someone stupid.

I didn't use the word stupid. I did say ignorant, but ignorant is a lack of knowledge. It was appropriate to my example (someone unfamiliar with hobby standards). Stupid is a lack of intelligence. I didn't say or infer that.

Nice try though.

[Republicaninmass]

Some people are perfectly happy with the eye appeal of a 7, with a slight wrinkle. Since the advent of Ebay, the only way to try to get a handle on unseen defects is through grading. If you dont care, then there are plenty of reputable raw card dealers on Ebay. Sometimes they even get higher than the graded prices, and, although it could be my naivety, I can only assume it's on speculation the card "could grade higher"

Call me a conspiracist, but other than a few deep pockets who don't care about resale value, I have a hard time thinking people pay more money for the opinion of some "kid in Oswego".

Blowout proved a sinple search can reveal many of these cards are trimmed and resold through the same company. This means not only people BUYING the card did not research the last sales, but people LISTING the card didn't even check their own price history. I mean heck, some of these are numbered!


Seems a little hard to swallow, and I do believe there are very few "coincidences"

[Dpeck100]

I didn't use the word stupid. I did say ignorant, but ignorant is a lack of knowledge. It was appropriate to my example (someone unfamiliar with hobby standards). Stupid is a lack of intelligence. I didn't say or infer that.

Nice try though.


Um okay. Some nice synonyms associated with it.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Um okay. Some nice synonyms associated with it.

Go play with your wrestling cards and let the grownups talk baseball cards :rolleyes:

[Buythatcard]

If it works for PWWC, maybe it will work for me. I have also implemented the sticker system.

[swarmee]

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/DLAAAOSwqYRcwfMX/s-l800.jpg
If they start stickering cards that are worst for the grade, here is a candidate.

[lowpopper]

Hey guys,

It is understood that the majority of the contributors to
this board do have superior knowledge in grading than
your typical collector. Top collectors and dealers for the
most part, CAN certainly identify what looks high end for
the given grade. These people do not need a sticker
or person to direct their thought processes.

Think about this however: What about the vast majority
of collectors who do not deal with grading every single
day? Could they not benefit from some assistance with this
concept? If you can rattle off the centering parameters
for an entire company’s grading scale, then the stickers
are probably not for you. Some people do need some
guidance however. If you have an eagle eye, it does not
mean everybody else does. “Joe Collector” out there might
not even know what grading standards mean in the first
place. Just remember that some of us happen to be blessed
with a skill set that not everybody is fortunate enough to
master. There are people out there who can benefit from
some consultation regardless of whether or not an auction
house is profiting from it. Other stickers are coming. It’s
not just about PWCC.

Could more stickers ultimately dilute the PWCC product?
Possibly, but this could very well be a universally accepted
standard 10 years from now. Coin grading is on a 70 point
scale (30 are used) and it is an accepted practice to grade
them A, B, and C quality within a grade. That is 90 grades if
I’m not mistaken. CAC stickers are a real thing. Price guides
have a separate column for slabbed coins that are stickered.
Coins also have numerous positive qualifiers: FS, FB, CAM,
DCAM, FBL... the list is enormous. Why this is not used on
cards sets like 89 Upper Deck for “Full Hologram” is beyond
knowledge I am privy to. Nonetheless, given the evolutionary
climate of the hobby in conjunction with a moderate amount
of extrapolation, I can assume we will see it some day.


I make the coin grading comparison because it pre-dates the
entire card hobby and has a much bigger overall market.
Stickers have been an accepted concept in coins for years
along with others that we seem on the cusp of. Observing the
evolution of coin grading seems to be the crystal ball for cards.
Most card graders use 19 or 20 grades in there scale
and that is a relatively recent scope. Not too long ago, it was a
10 point scale, right? Considering how every cards is unique,
those are still pretty small numbers. If coins have a 30 point
scale which is then separated into 3 categories of quality, I
see card grading dissected much further in years to come.


Oh and I know everybody loves to bash Brent, but the guy
seems highly intelligent and creative. Going after him for
every little thing reminds me of the steroids in baseball
controversy...the guys who play the best receive the most
criticism. If PWCC wasn’t a literal powerhouse, all this would
be non-topic. I personally love seeing all the new ideas not
only thought of, but actually put in motion. A new concept
can’t be accepted until someone introduces it to the world
first. The auction house residing only on eBay, the stickers,
the vault which can directly turn your auction winnings into
managed commodities/futures. Oh and you can borrow cash
against your equity. Who else is doing that on a large scale?
It’s all genius stuff. I believe we will look back and say the
guy was a hobby pioneer...Brent, game recognize game. Real talk.

[chalupacollects]

I don't see the conflict. One doesn't need to be a "professional grader" to see that a card has great eye appeal given its technical grade.

But by putting a sticker on the card they are grading it! Using their own little system....

[itslarry]

Go play with your wrestling cards and let the grownups talk baseball cards :rolleyes:

Buwahahahaahahahahahaha
This had me dying

[samosa4u]

VintageToppsguy,

First of all, you have no right to poke fun at what other people collect. Wrestling cards are great and some of them sell for quite a bit of money. They have a great future.

Secondly, your comments just remind me of all the guys who laughed at me when I showed them my Pele rookies. Why don't you go on Heritage auctions right now and look at the past sales prices. They are selling for a sh*tload.

And finally, yeah, wrestling is made up, but when a 280 pounder slams you head first, and you feel like you're going to die - THAT is real pain, buddy.

Have a nice day

[Dpeck100]

Actually I have 66 years in the hobby.

I had the pleasure of watching "The Great Malenko" live as a teenager in the Tampa Bay area. You probably don't even know who this is?

351623

And you think your credentials are impeckable. :D

Just saw this on Twitter.

Thought you might like it.

[frankbmd]

Just saw this on Twitter.

Thought you might like it.

Gordon’s wrestling interviews were an art form that attempted to legitimize entertainment that pretended to be a real “sport”.

If you knew the script, betting on wrestling was not only a body slam, but a slam dunk as well.:eek:

[Dpeck100]

VintageToppsguy,

First of all, you have no right to poke fun at what other people collect. Wrestling cards are great and some of them sell for quite a bit of money. They have a great future.

Secondly, your comments just remind me of all the guys who laughed at me when I showed them my Pele rookies. Why don't you go on Heritage auctions right now and look at the past sales prices. They are selling for a sh*tload.

And finally, yeah, wrestling is made up, but when a 280 pounder slams you head first, and you feel like you're going to die - THAT is real pain, buddy.

Have a nice day



This clowns posts are comical.

There are only two cards from the 80's in a Mint grade that sell for more than this card. Both are Michael Jordan cards.

He can make fun of me all he wants. I find it very entertaining.

[ullmandds]

i'd like to own an andre rookie!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Slightly different genre I guess as this is Olympic wrestling, but this card -- not expensive though hard to find -- is a favorite of mine.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Commie

[Peter_Spaeth]

Commie

Arguably the most dominant athlete ever. He had some absurd unbeaten streak until he lost to Rulon Gardner in a controversial Olympic final. A decade or more, I think it was. A fascinating man too, despite what you might assume from his looks he was an avid chess player and a student of the arts and literature. Eventually won elected office.

[calvindog]

Arguably the most dominant athlete ever. He had some absurd unbeaten streak until he lost to Rulon Gardner in a controversial Olympic final. A decade or more, I think it was. A fascinating man too, despite what you might assume from his looks he was an avid chess player and a student of the arts and literature.

Pinko

[Peter_Spaeth]

Pinko

Tough crowd, Jesus.

[Dpeck100]

Slightly different genre I guess as this is Olympic wrestling, but this card -- not expensive though hard to find -- is a favorite of mine.

That card is very rare and especially in a mint grade. This guy was a beast of a man.

There are two other great cards in set. Randy Couture and Kurt Angle.

I bet if an Angle 9 surfaced it would go deep in the hundreds.

[Dpeck100]

i'd like to own an andre rookie!

It is a great card in any grade. Andre was one of a kind and worthy of honor on a trading card.

[Peter_Spaeth]

That card is very rare and especially in a mint grade. This guy was a beast of a man.

There are two other great cards in set. Randy Couture and Kurt Angle.

I bet if an Angle 9 surfaced it would go deep in the hundreds.

I believe Rulon Gardner is in that set too. Notable if only for doing the impossible, defeating Karelin.

[calvindog]

I remember that match like it was yesterday. Similar feeling to the Douglas/Tyson fight.

[Dpeck100]

I believe Rulon Gardner is in that set too. Notable if only for doing the impossible, defeating Karelin.

He is.

I had to sit through a motivational speech this guy gave and it was the worst 45 minutes at a conference I have ever had to endure.

[vintagetoppsguy]

This clowns posts are comical.

The guy that collects cards that look like they come from a Happy Meal wants to call me a clown? You're a joke!

Picked up any new Yu-Gi-Oh, Pokeman or Magic cards lately? :rolleyes:

Do you even own a pre-war war baseball card or are you just the PSA troll that I believe you are?

[aloondilana]

Leon,
Please make a like button.
Because I'd be liking everyone of vintagetoppsguys posts!!

[Throttlesteer]

Sorry to bring this "gem" of a thread back up to the top. But, I've looked at a few PWCC cards currently up for auction. It appears their new eye appeal grades aren't actually being accompanied by a sticker of any sort. So, did they move away from stickers altogether and just assign their "grade" to boost the bidding?

I could be wrong, but several of the "A" and "E" eye appeal cards didn't have any additional stickers affixed. I'm not arguing for or against the change, I'm just simply asking the question.

[Peter_Spaeth]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1952-Topps-Mickey-Mantle-311-PSA-4-5-VGEX-PWCC-E/352652483287

The altered Mantle. No sticker on the main pic, but if you scroll down further, it has one.

[Goudey77]

Sorry to bring this "gem" of a thread back up to the top. But, I've looked at a few PWCC cards currently up for auction. It appears their new eye appeal grades aren't actually being accompanied by a sticker of any sort. So, did they move away from stickers altogether and just assign their "grade" to boost the bidding?

I could be wrong, but several of the "A" and "E" eye appeal cards didn't have any additional stickers affixed. I'm not arguing for or against the change, I'm just simply asking the question.

I have already emailed them about this since I was interested in a few of the current auctions with the rating. They said the new stickers were not available at the time of the scans/listings. But they would be applied to the cases before shipping out.

So short answer is yes they have new stickers. I'll post a photo when I receive my "exceptional" card.

[Goudey77]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1952-Topps-Mickey-Mantle-311-PSA-4-5-VGEX-PWCC-E/352652483287

The altered Mantle. No sticker on the main pic, but if you scroll down further, it has one.

Thanks for posting that I did not notice they had shown the new stickers yet. New sticker design has very nice eye appeal. :D

[darwinbulldog]

Thanks for posting that I did not notice they had shown the new stickers yet. New sticker design has very nice eye appeal. :D

And technically it's fair.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Thanks for posting that I did not notice they had shown the new stickers yet. New sticker design has very nice eye appeal. :D

Ooooohh, maybe we need a sticker for appealing stickers!

[bobbyw8469]

Ooooohh, maybe we need a sticker for appealing stickers!

Are the purple stickers that someone else was pushing still a thing?

[bobbyw8469]

Pretty soon there are gonna be 20 stickers.....and quarter grades......

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Are the purple stickers that someone else was pushing still a thing?

Considering public submissions are still "Coming Soon" I'd say reply hazy ask again later.