As much as $600,000 in baseball memorabilia stolen from Don & Charlie's In Scottsdale

[Santo10Fan]

I'd say half a mil is a little stretch here. Nice Ruth tho.

https://www.abc15.com/news/region-northeast-valley/scottsdale/as-much-as-600-000-in-baseball-memorabilia-stolen-from-scottsdale-restaurant

[oldjudge]

Little stretch?

[Santo10Fan]

Little stretch?

Teeny

[Ronnie73]

I don't know anything about this place and I'm in no way an autograph expert but $600K? I would think you could find nearly everyone on that list in the $200 to $500 range, with the Ruth as the exception. So maybe more like 50K? I also find it kind of suspicious that the place is closing in less than 15 days. First thing that pops into my head is insurance fraud. How can you put a value of $600K on those baseballs unless you had them insured for $600K. It could just be my criminal mind thinking, but $600K would be a nice Grand Closing bonus. I mean absolutely no disrespect to the owners. I don't know them and being robbed is awful. Everyone has to realize that I come from a place where people would torch their business a week before getting kicked out, just to collect the insurance money on their equipment and start over in another location. I've seen it so many times. I even had a neighbor that had a vehicle fire and after the fire was out, he started throwing broken junk equipment into his truck and restarted the fire. The next day, the insurance guy comes down to determine the loss and he ends up with a new truck and all new equipment for nothing. Scumbag.

[swarmee]

Are the laces on that ball authentic to any produced before 1950? I'm not a ball expert, but it looks a little modern to me.
And yes, unless these balls are all from milestone events, the valuation is preposterous.

[frankbmd]

The new hotel replacing the restaurant will feature a signed HOF baseball in every guest room no doubt.

[bigfish]

I don't know anything about this place and I'm in no way an autograph expert but $600K? I would think you could find nearly everyone on that list in the $200 to $500 range, with the Ruth as the exception. So maybe more like 50K? I also find it kind of suspicious that the place is closing in less than 15 days. First thing that pops into my head is insurance fraud. How can you put a value of $600K on those baseballs unless you had them insured for $600K. It could just be my criminal mind thinking, but $600K would be a nice Grand Closing bonus. I mean absolutely no disrespect to the owners. I don't know them and being robbed is awful. Everyone has to realize that I come from a place where people would torch their business a week before getting kicked out, just to collect the insurance money on their equipment and start over in another location. I've seen it so many times. I even had a neighbor that had a vehicle fire and after the fire was out, he started throwing broken junk equipment into his truck and restarted the fire. The next day, the insurance guy comes down to determine the loss and he ends up with a new truck and all new equipment for nothing. Scumbag.


Pretty much sums it up

[ullmandds]

yup...sure looks like a scam to defraud insurance. That ruth ball is probably from coach's corner.

[Yastrzemski Sports]

Probably about 3-5k value of balls plus Ruth. If Ruth is fake then that’s what it is. Nice try.

[Jim65]

But they are "irreplaceable" and "unique" so $600,000 is probably low.

[rjackson44]

I like frank hes funny lol

[Fballguy]

I don't know anything about this place and I'm in no way an autograph expert but $600K? I would think you could find nearly everyone on that list in the $200 to $500 range, with the Ruth as the exception. So maybe more like 50K? I also find it kind of suspicious that the place is closing in less than 15 days. First thing that pops into my head is insurance fraud. How can you put a value of $600K on those baseballs unless you had them insured for $600K. It could just be my criminal mind thinking, but $600K would be a nice Grand Closing bonus. I mean absolutely no disrespect to the owners. I don't know them and being robbed is awful. Everyone has to realize that I come from a place where people would torch their business a week before getting kicked out, just to collect the insurance money on their equipment and start over in another location. I've seen it so many times. I even had a neighbor that had a vehicle fire and after the fire was out, he started throwing broken junk equipment into his truck and restarted the fire. The next day, the insurance guy comes down to determine the loss and he ends up with a new truck and all new equipment for nothing. Scumbag.

First thing that popped into my head too.

[nolemmings]

If you knew anything about the place or its owner, you would be VERY reluctant to suggest nefarious behavior. Another article stated the baseballs were worth between $200-$600K, “according to a police spokesman”. If I were to guess, an employee or even the owner himself was so caught off guard by the theft that he remarked without much reflection, especially since the true value of the baseballs being worth far less is pretty easily researched.

For those unfamiliar with the restaturant, here is a more thorough story about Don & Charlie’s. To call it iconic is no understatement, as you will see comments from George Will, Bob Uecker and Bud Selig, and Harry Caray ate (drank) there so often he was probably entitled to receive his mail there.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/entertainment/dining/dominic-armato/2019/03/08/don-charlies-restaurant-closing-scottsdale-spring-training-baseball-memories/2922922002/

The place was (is for two more weeks) a flippin museum. There has been some talk that it may resurface, although it can never be the same. Good thing Scottsdale got another hotel/resort to literally stand in its place--Lord knows that's just what the city needed :rolleyes:

[Ronnie73]

If you knew anything about the place or its owner, you would be VERY reluctant to suggest nefarious behavior. Another article stated the baseballs were worth between $200-$600K, “according to a police spokesman”. If I were to guess, an employee or even the owner himself was so caught off guard by the theft that he remarked without much reflection, especially since the true value of the baseballs being worth far less is pretty easily researched.

For those unfamiliar with the restaturant, here is a more thorough story about Don & Charlie’s. To call it iconic is no understatement, as you will see comments from George Will, Bob Uecker and Bud Selig, and Harry Caray ate (drank) there so often he was probably entitled to receive his mail there.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/entertainment/dining/dominic-armato/2019/03/08/don-charlies-restaurant-closing-scottsdale-spring-training-baseball-memories/2922922002/

The place was (is for two more weeks) a flippin museum. There has been some talk that it may resurface, although it can never be the same. Good thing Scottsdale got another hotel/resort to literally stand in its place--Lord knows that's just what the city needed :rolleyes:

Sounds like it is/was a great place. To bad the story didn't go into detail for the sale two years prior and now the official closing. Was it a pressured sale, or was the property owned by someone else and was out of the hands of the restaurant owner? Or was it just a great deal of money for the property? It just doesn't make much sense to me to plan a closing for what sounded like a profitable and popular business.

[nolemmings]

Sounds like it is/was a great place. To bad the story didn't go into detail for the sale two years prior and now the official closing. Was it a pressured sale, or was the property owned by someone else and was out of the hands of the restaurant owner? Or was it just a great deal of money for the property? It just doesn't make much sense to me to plan a closing for what sounded like a profitable and popular business.

There was a zoning change that allowed for the hotel to be built. Actually, I need to point out something I just discovered myself-- the hotel was going to keep a scaled down version of the restaurant and is even going to be named in honor of Don and Charlie's. That is great news if it comes to fruition.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/scottsdale/2018/10/27/don-charlies-steakhouse-become-new-boutique-hotel-scottsdale/1745940002/

Here is a pic of a typical wall in the restaurant, taken from the above article. The bar, although small, is also chock-full of stuff, including some 1969 Cubs artwork on one wall with many autos.
https://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/67d77b70969a0c005d4a65ab900483945262d9b8/c=170-0-2830-2000/local/-/media/2017/03/16/Phoenix/Phoenix/636252750805658341-DonCharlies-Environment140529-5552-1-.jpg?width=540&height=405&fit=crop

[toppcat]

To say this is a scam without knowing the facts is ridiculous, c'mon. And whatever the value some spokesman places on the balls, their insured value/replacement cost is all that matters when a claim is filed.

[1952boyntoncollector]

The can use Deans cards as their expert and get it to 3 million.


Still i always feel bad for the actual thief in this situation if there is a pumped up insurance claim...what can the thief really say if someone says 300k of cash stolen from car....'nah i only stole 120k'

[Exhibitman]

Insurers don't just roll over on major claims like this. Google "examination under oath" and the cooperation clause of a policy: the owners of the place are likely going to undergo a forensic accounting analysis of their last three years' taxes and finances akin to an IRS audit, then be examined in depth about the specifics of the loss. The insurer will likely retain an expert in sports memorabilia to create its own market valuation on the loss once it has the details pinned down.

[Santo10Fan]

The can use Deans cards as their expert and get it to 3 million.

I like that

[Duluth Eskimo]

That Ruth is as fake and the claim

[Kenny Cole]

Insurers don't just roll over on major claims like this. Google "examination under oath" and the cooperation clause of a policy: the owners of the place are likely going to undergo a forensic accounting analysis of their last three years' taxes and finances akin to an IRS audit, then be examined in depth about the specifics of the loss. The insurer will likely retain an expert in sports memorabilia to create its own market valuation on the loss once it has the details pinned down.

Yeah, there will likely be several EUOs. They will want to see the insured's books for several years and, if they have other businesses, the books from those businesses too. I would imagine that there will ultimately be a failure to cooperate claim because carriers think they are entitled to everything, no matter how tangential, and at some point the insured will call bullshit on that and bow up because it is bullshit. Then there's the referral to the Special Investigation Unit (SIU) for fraud. Pretty standard stuff. Seen it 1000 times.

To some degree the amount of hassle depends on the carrier, but the script is pretty predictable, particularly if it is being reported as a Large Loss according to the carrier's internal policies regarding the amount of the claim. Then it generally goes to a different unit and a different adjuster. If the claim is being presented as over $200K, most carriers are going to view that as a Large Loss. Hope it all works out and don't envy them.

[Rich Klein]

[QUOTE=Exhibitman;1866399]Insurers don't just roll over on major claims like this. Google "examination under oath" and the cooperation clause of a policy: the owners of the place are likely going to undergo a forensic accounting analysis of their last three years' taxes and finances akin to an IRS audit, then be examined in depth about the specifics of the loss. The insurer will likely retain an expert in sports memorabilia to create its own market valuation on the loss once it has the details pinned down.[/QUOTE

Back in my Beckett days I talked to insurance people on at least a one a month basis about issues similar to this. Those usually did involve cards and amazingly every vintage card anyone had was automatically at book price (in those days nm or better pre-1980 pre-grading) And there was the time I was in daily contact with the FBI over a Wagner (card was real, the back story was more fascinating)

Adam is correct, the insurance company won't just pay the money without a detailed investigation considering the $$ involved.

Rich

[1880nonsports]

fake claim?