Interesting NO-PRINT group of T206 Carolina Brights - EPDG - Old Mill - Polar Bear

[tedzan]

Circa Summer 1910 while printing the 350-only series of cards, American Lithographic (ALC) designed the backs of the AMERICAN BEAUTY, BROAD LEAF, CYCLE, and DRUM
having identical stylized FRAME and lettering. ALC printed these backs on 190 subjects in this series. Refer to thread for more info regarding this "A-B-C-D connection"...…
T206 DRUM's....and their "A-B-C-D connection" (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=90139)

Research has revealed that 22 % of the 190 subjects were not printed with certain T206 backs, namely CAROLINA BRIGHTS, EL PRINCIPE DE GALES, OLD MILL, POLAR BEAR.
Perhaps this evidence provides us a clue to the make-up of a sheet of T206's printed in early 1910.


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/AB350frameX.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/FDelehantyBROADLEAF350b.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/CYCLE350HaydenX.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/T206DRUMx50bx.jpg


350-only series subjects which are CAROLINA BRIGHTS - EPDG - OLD MILL - POLAR BEAR no-prints (42 subjects)

Arndt
Becker *
Butler
Byrne *
Cassidy
Charles *
Cross
Donovan (throwing) *
Doolan (fielding) *
Downs
Fletcher *
Hall
Hoffman (St Louis AL) *
Howell (portrait) *
Huggins (portrait) *
Huggins (hands at mouth) *
Hunter *
Killian (portrait) *
Knabe *
Lennox *

Malarkey
Marquard (portrait) *
Marshall *
McBride *
McElveen *
McGinley
McIntyre (Detroit) *
Mitchell (Cincinnati) *
Mitchell (Toronto)
Moran (Providence)
Mowery *
Myers (bat) *
O'Hara (New York Nat'l) **
Paskert *
Phelan
Poland
Rhoades (hands at chest) *
Rossman * …. **
Schmidt (portrait) *
Starr *

Street (portrait) *
Summers *



* denotes.....these subjects are represented in the 1910 COUPON set.

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/1910COUPONWillett25b.jpg



** denotes….O'Hara and Rossman were not printed with the A-B-C-D connection.


This research is a work in progress; therefore, any additional information is really appreciated.


TED Z

T206 Reference (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=237816)
.

[Rich Falvo]

Ted, do those four backs work as a group, meaning that players are generally known with all four or none? I've wondered about Hunky Shaw. He's known with Polar Bear and EPDG (I'd love to actually see this card), but not OM or CB.

Except for Shaw, the Providence players in the 350 series fit into two groups. I've wondered why Shaw seems to fit into neither.

With CB/OM/PB/EPDG: Anderson, Blackburne, Hoffman, Lavender
Without: Arndt, Moran, Phelan

[tedzan]

Hi Rich

All other subjects in the 350-only series are found with any one (or 2, or 3) or all 4 of these backs (CAROLINA BRIGHTS, EL PRINCIPE DE GALES, OLD MILL, POLAR BEAR).
Whereas, these 42 specific subjects were not printed with any of these regular 350 series backs. This is very unusual. And, what this implies to me is that this group of 43
subjects were printed on the same sheet, and quite early in the game (circa Spring 1910).


TED Z

T206 Reference (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=237816)
.

[Pat R]

It can get confusing trying to figure out a pattern with the no print groups
because they did switch subjects around during the printing.
For example there are several two name cards that only have one
of the 42 subjects you have listed.

Here are a couple of them

Ganzel/Downs
341765

McGinley/Speaker
341766

[tedzan]

It can get confusing trying to figure out a pattern with the no print groups
because they did switch subjects around during the printing.
For example there are several two name cards that only have one
of the 42 subjects you have listed.

Here are a couple of them

Ganzel/Downs
341765

McGinley/Speaker
341766


Pat

I completely understand that ALC switched subjects around on their printing plates in their subsequent press runs.

Anyhow, when you are presented with an example such as this one where 4 of the very popular Assorted Subjects
backs appear as an omitted group, I think that tells us something.

In my engineering mentality, it suggests that all 42 of these subjects were grouped together in the same print run.

There are 5 two-name cards that confirm my 1910 COUPON sheet format, 3 of which confirm this 42-card format....

Killian/Dubuc


Matty McIntyre/Hoffman (St Louis)


Rossman/McBride


Rossman/Thomas


Starr/Schmidt (portrait)


TED Z

T206 Reference (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=237816)
.

[Pat R]

Ted, I'm not disagreeing with you with you I'm just saying it's hard to find a conclusive sheet pattern because
there were so many subjects switched around. One of the things I pointed out about
the coupons is the lack of minor league subjects there are several two name cards of
a major league subject with a minor league subject so the coupon sheets must have been completely reassembled.

[tedzan]

Pat

Again, I agree with what you are saying regarding the switching of subjects from press run to subsequent press runs.

Regarding the lack of Minor League subjects in the 48-subject Major League (ML) composition of the 1910 COUPON set,
my thinking is that ALC introduced the 86 - Minor Leaguers later in the process of printing the 350-only series cards. I
have always contended that the 48 ML in the 1910 COUPON set were from a very early (if not the very first) print run
of the 350-only subjects in 1910 (or perhaps as early as the Winter of 1909).

Then ALC started filling in their sheets with Minor League subjects mixed in with ML subjects later in the 350-only game.


TED Z

T206 Reference (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=237816)
.

[mrvster]

is incredible stuff....we are always either learning something new about the set, or disproving something....truly enigmatic!:)

Ted....very interesting theory....I want to see how this plays out....

Pat....you are a super sleuth

the both of you debating are some of my favorites to watch.....you both are genius and are keep the theories coming


you two are some of the best researchers we currently have on the set!!(amongst some other all stars);)

[Rich Falvo]

Hi Rich

All other subjects in the 350-only series are found with any one (or 2, or 3) or all 4 of these backs (CAROLINA BRIGHTS, EL PRINCIPE DE GALES, OLD MILL, POLAR BEAR).
Whereas, these 42 specific subjects were not printed with any of these regular 350 series backs. This is very unusual. And, what this implies to me is that this group of 43
subjects were printed on the same sheet, and quite early in the game (circa Spring 1910).


TED Z

T206 Reference (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=237816)
.

Thanks, Ted. I guess Hunky stands by himself. I was trying to fit him in to the same pattern as the other players.

[tedzan]

A Net54 reader asked me if any of the above 42 subjects are found with the TOLSTOI back. Of the 42 subjects,
these 30 were printed with the TOLSTOI back....and, some of them are difficult to find with TOLSTOI......

Byrne
Charles
Cross
Donovan (throwing)
Doolan (fielding)
Downs
Fletcher
Hoffman (St Louis AL)
Howell (portrait)
Huggins (portrait)
Huggins (hands at mouth)
Hunter
Killian (portrait)
Knabe
Lennox
Marquard (portrait)
McBride
McElveen
McIntyre (Detroit)
Mitchell (Cincinnati)

Mitchell (Toronto)
Mowery
Myers (bat)
Paskert
Rhoades (hands at chest)
Rossman
Schmidt (portrait)
Starr
Street (portrait)
Summers


TED Z

T206 Reference (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=237816)
.

[Pat R]

Ted, do those four backs work as a group, meaning that players are generally known with all four or none? I've wondered about Hunky Shaw. He's known with Polar Bear and EPDG (I'd love to actually see this card), but not OM or CB.

Except for Shaw, the Providence players in the 350 series fit into two groups. I've wondered why Shaw seems to fit into neither.
With CB/OM/PB/EPDG: Anderson, Blackburne, Hoffman, Lavender
Without: Arndt, Moran, Phelan

Rich, I don't know if it had anything to do with it but it was up in the
air who Shaw would be playing for around the time his T206 was printed.

February 5 1910
341862

March 10 1910
341863

March 18 1910
341864

[Rich Falvo]

Thanks, Pat. That makes sense. Does that mean that the Polar Bears were likely printed first among those four backs since Shaw did appear with that one?