Thoughts on this Holiday Inn Placemat

[Bestdj777]

I purchased the following because the price was right and was hoping to get some thoughts, as the seller has indicated that I could return it if I want:
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/nZIAAOSwa~FcEsAl/s-l1600.jpg
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/sNEAAOSwC45cEsAn/s-l1600.jpg
With the exception of the stain in the top left corner on the front, the rest of it is just a horrible image.

Here are my concerns:
1. Kelly's guide indicates that the placemats typically had beveled edges and mentions nothing of the lamination. This one obviously is different. But see the following from Mears: http://www.mearsonlineauctions.com/1960%27s-mickey-mantle-holiday-inn-joplin-missouri-9%22-x-13%22-laminate-placemat-lot74128.aspx.
2. The stain on the front does not appear on the back side.
3. The stain is in an identical location to the one from the Mears auction, although the stain here is a little smaller and the one along the left side isn't present here.
4. Someone on eBay with zero feedback posted the exact same placemat for sale yesterday, with the exact same stain but with what appears to have been a slightly different picture of it as no glare was present. I pointed it out to the seller I purchased this one from. I can no longer find that auction, so it appears to be pulled.

Any thoughts?

[jchcollins]

I purchased the following because the price was right and was hoping to get some thoughts, as the seller has indicated that I could return it if I want:
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/nZIAAOSwa~FcEsAl/s-l1600.jpg
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/sNEAAOSwC45cEsAn/s-l1600.jpg
With the exception of the stain in the top left corner on the front, the rest of it is just a horrible image.

Here are my concerns:
1. Kelly's guide indicates that the placemats typically had beveled edges and mentions nothing of the lamination. This one obviously is different. But see the following from Mears: http://www.mearsonlineauctions.com/1960%27s-mickey-mantle-holiday-inn-joplin-missouri-9%22-x-13%22-laminate-placemat-lot74128.aspx.
2. The stain on the front does not appear on the back side.
3. The stain is in an identical location to the one from the Mears auction, although the stain here is a little smaller and the one along the left side isn't present here.
4. Someone on eBay with zero feedback posted the exact same placemat for sale yesterday, with the exact same stain but with what appears to have been a slightly different picture of it as no glare was present. I pointed it out to the seller I purchased this one from. I can no longer find that auction, so it appears to be pulled.

Any thoughts?

Are there other known examples for comparison? I would think something like that would be hard to authenticate just due to rarity. But as you seem to allude, it wouldn't be that difficult to copy either.

This is why I steer clear of anything that I don't really know well, which is most memorabilia outside of cards.

[Bestdj777]

Thanks. I haven’t been able to find any others but assuming a member or two on here has one, as I know there is a guy with a pretty extensive Holiday Inn collection. I know a lot of Mantle stuff well enough to detect fakes but occasionally take a chance on a cheap piece like this, that’s a bit difficult to discern online.

[toppcat]

I'm inferring it's laminated? If so, why is it stained?

[Bestdj777]

The laminate doesn’t completely cover the sides like some other laminate pieces, which is a possible reason.

[pawpawdiv9]

Hey Chris,
I use watchcount.com a lot. Here's what I found on completed sales:
http://www.watchcount.com/completed.php?bkw=mickey+mantle+placemat&bcat=0&bcts=&sfsb=Show+Me%21&csbin=all&cssrt=ts&bslr=&bnp=&bxp=#serp
other sales:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-MICKEY-MANTLE-039-S-HOLIDAY-INN-DINER-PLACEMAT-RARE-13-034-x9-034-/173690123285?nordt=true&nma=true&si=VjdGW4Wm7mznCuOtMBbcQICSexE%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
This second one had a different border:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-MICKEY-MANTLE-039-S-HOLIDAY-INN-PLACEMAT-RARE-/123449718722?nordt=true&nma=true&si=VjdGW4Wm7mznCuOtMBbcQICSexE%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
The current /unsold by evajoy is a REPO (as stated)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/MICKEY-MANTLE-RESTAURANT-2-MATCBOOKS-1960-TOPPS-CARD-563-INCL-REPO-PLACEMAT-/132896662679?nordt=true&nma=true&si=VjdGW4Wm7mznCuOtMBbcQICSexE%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

[Bestdj777]

Hey Chris,
I use watchcount.com a lot. Here's what I found on completed sales:
http://www.watchcount.com/completed.php?bkw=mickey+mantle+placemat&bcat=0&bcts=&sfsb=Show+Me%21&csbin=all&cssrt=ts&bslr=&bnp=&bxp=#serp
other sales:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-MICKEY-MANTLE-039-S-HOLIDAY-INN-DINER-PLACEMAT-RARE-13-034-x9-034-/173690123285?nordt=true&nma=true&si=VjdGW4Wm7mznCuOtMBbcQICSexE%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
This second one had a different border:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-MICKEY-MANTLE-039-S-HOLIDAY-INN-PLACEMAT-RARE-/123449718722?nordt=true&nma=true&si=VjdGW4Wm7mznCuOtMBbcQICSexE%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
The current /unsold by evajoy is a REPO (as stated)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/MICKEY-MANTLE-RESTAURANT-2-MATCBOOKS-1960-TOPPS-CARD-563-INCL-REPO-PLACEMAT-/132896662679?nordt=true&nma=true&si=VjdGW4Wm7mznCuOtMBbcQICSexE%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

Thanks buddy. The one sale is the one I bought and the one with the different boarder is definitely real, which made me question mind a little.

[AustinMike]

I purchased the following because the price was right and was hoping to get some thoughts, as the seller has indicated that I could return it if I want:

With the exception of the stain in the top left corner on the front, the rest of it is just a horrible image.

Here are my concerns:
1. Kelly's guide indicates that the placemats typically had beveled edges and mentions nothing of the lamination. This one obviously is different. But see the following from Mears: http://www.mearsonlineauctions.com/1960%27s-mickey-mantle-holiday-inn-joplin-missouri-9%22-x-13%22-laminate-placemat-lot74128.aspx.
2. The stain on the front does not appear on the back side.
3. The stain is in an identical location to the one from the Mears auction, although the stain here is a little smaller and the one along the left side isn't present here.
4. Someone on eBay with zero feedback posted the exact same placemat for sale yesterday, with the exact same stain but with what appears to have been a slightly different picture of it as no glare was present. I pointed it out to the seller I purchased this one from. I can no longer find that auction, so it appears to be pulled.

Any thoughts?

Hi Chris,

I saw the ebay listing for this also and stayed away for one main reason:

In the Kelly article, he states, "Placemats are very collectible, as well. They make great displayable items, if not soiled or stained from coffee. Please be aware that there are a lot of copies circulating in our hobby. The original placemats all have scalloped edges. Most of the copies have straight edges." The portion I've put in bold kept me away.

I was also concerned about the lamination of the placemat. Rightly or wrongly, I have the impression these are not supposed to be laminated. I also think that lamination ruins the item if it is not supposed to be laminated. That thought also kept me away to a lesser extent. Does anyone know if the placemats were in a laminated form while used in the Inn?

[Bestdj777]

Thanks Mike. I’d read that as well and one recently sold with the correct edges that was not laminated. The only thing pushing me toward potentially real is the Mears auction...

[bswhiten]

Chris,

Check out the actual paper under a loupe. The one I bought a couple of years ago with the same image as your laminated one did not have the scalloped edge or texture that the green print one has. It looked like the texture on the print but it was just standard paper. And to my knowledge you don't see that blue represented on any other Holiday Inn memorabilia. Mostly green, yellow, or brown...
But who "really" knows :)

[AustinMike]

The only thing pushing me toward potentially real is the Mears auction...

Playing Devil's Advocate: (with lots of sarcasm) And we all know auction houses have never made a mistake, right?

Playing Devil's Advocate to the Devil's Advocate: Kelly's article only mentions 3 HI matchbooks with two different Mantle pictures on them. But we know there are at least 7 variations with the two pictures. His articles also don't mention all of the Country Cookin' Matchbooks with different addresses. So, even Kelly's articles can't be considered the final say in what authentic items are out there.

Like Ben says, "who "really" knows." Once you have it in hand, you'll be the best judge regarding it's authenticity.

[sflayank]

7 holiday inn matchbooks?
Thought there were 5
What r the 7?

[bswhiten]

Don't forget the red/pink path variation on the yellow :) and the blue matches that Chris found... Probably more like 10 or more with variations/print errors/defects/colors/size.

[AustinMike]

7 holiday inn matchbooks?
Thought there were 5
What r the 7?

The seven I was referring to are the 5 variations with Mick looking over his left shoulder and the 2 variation with Mick looking at you (white background and cream background - ignore the cream background in the center of the attached photo).

I forgot about Chris' blue match variation. That would make it eight.

I guess with Ben's "red/pink path" variation and my "pinkish/dark cream" variation (the center matchbook in the photo), the number is probably limitless. :p

[AustinMike]

Speaking of the matchbook with Mick looking over his left shoulder, not meaning to divert from the main topic of the placemat, but does anyone recognize where that photo comes from?


Here's a hint:

[DBesse27]

Are we still allowed to say “Mick” in 2019? I lose track.

[bswhiten]

Mike :)

[AustinMike]

:D

[AustinMike]

And some more

[AustinMike]

All of the above, even the *cough, cough* 1951 *cough, cough* Wheaties issue, come from the 1952 Wingfield photo

[Bestdj777]

All of the above, even the *cough, cough* 1951 *cough, cough* Wheaties issue, come from the 1952 Wingfield photo

One of the best images of Mantle of all time. Ps. Sounds like you’ve got a cold. I know you can’t be suggesting it wasn’t produced in 1951 😉